4x4 drivers 'more likely to flout law'

Anan1

Here's a big surprise for everyone...

http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/car_news_article.aspx?cp-documentid=586453

Stark

I can't believe in this age of rapidly increasing fuel prices that sales of the things are actually increasing.

Anan1

Stark wrote:

I can't believe in this age of rapidly increasing fuel prices that sales of the things are actually increasing.

There was a thread about SUVs on here some time back. My abiding impression afterwards was that rationality was hardly a hallmark of the average owner.

maidhc

Anan1 wrote:

My abiding impression afterwards was that rationality was hardly a hallmark of the average owner.

Don't draw them on.

junkyard

That's it so Jeremy Clarkson and Ken Livingston says SUVs are bad so we should all sell them. I don't think so. I've been driving SUVs for years and have never had an accident. In fact as a panel beater I can confirm that only a tiny fraction of my business is SUVs. There are some bigger fish to fry first i.e. boy racers and lady drivers. They are my best customers and thats a fact.

Stark

junkyard wrote:

In fact as a panel beater I can confirm that only a tiny fraction of my business is SUVs.

Undoubtedly because it's the other car that always comes out the worse for wear.

junkyard

Stark wrote:

Undoubtedly because it's the other car that always comes out the worse for wear.

Contrary to popular belief SUVs are made out of plastic and metal too, just like a car, and will crumple up just as much as a car. They're not all armor plated you know. We don't go around in our SUVs thinking " oh look there's a car lets mow it down for the craic" ffs people get real.

I suppose it will be white van mans turn next week.:rolleyes:

Anan1

junkyard wrote:

That's it so Jeremy Clarkson and Ken Livingston says SUVs are bad so we should all sell them. I don't think so. I've been driving SUVs for years and have never had an accident. In fact as a panel beater I can confirm that only a tiny fraction of my business is SUVs. There are some bigger fish to fry first i.e. boy racers and lady drivers. They are my best customers and thats a fact.

Actually, it was the Imperial College, London who did the research, and the British Medical Journal who published it. The crash statistics are from Admiral Insurance. I wouldn't pay too much heed to Clarkson & Livingstone on most issues but, as they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Stark

junkyard wrote:

I suppose it will be white van mans turn next week.:rolleyes:

Nah, we've Myspace to blame for the kiddie fiddling these days

junkyard

And what relevance does a U.K survey held on U.K. drivers have on Irish drivers exactly?:rolleyes:

maidhc

Please lets not do the SUV thing again!!!

If people want them, they can have them.

junkyard

Thanks maidhc, I rest my case.:)

colm_mcm

When I went home to the west last week, there was an article obviously copied and pasted from an american paper warning about SUV's and how easy they are to roll aver, and how much fuel they use.

It's all to easy to jump on a bandwagon

Guy:Incognito

I love the people that give out about "gas guzzling" suvs. Unless you ride a bike and use no petrol, stfu.These same people arnt on ranting about large engine cars, why not? I drive a 2.5 petrol car that gets mpg in the low 20's. I reckon most new suvs are a good bit better than that. Yet no long winded threads giving out about me.

colm_mcm

Yeah, I don't get it. A Rav4 2.2 D-4D will average 40mpg, yet BMW 520 drivers don't get tree huggers on their case.

Even more bizzarely, European SUV's (which are mostly diesel) are being blamed for the hole in the ozone layer, the polar ice caps melting, the bad pop music being produced now, yet American cars with 5.7 engines are tolerated stateside.

Mailman

When I was over in Germany on work last month I was surprised by exactly how few 4X4s were on the road over there in comparission to here.
But then they have cities with narrow streets and fast motorways which don't lend themselves to 4X4s.
There were some 4X4s but they were generally either Range Rovers or hardcore 4X4s e.g. Land Rover defenders and Jeep Wranglers with all the go-anywhere kit affixed.
Practically all the caravans I saw being towed on the Autobahn were being towed by large engined saloons and estates too.
I suppose it is a case of the right tool for the job and 4X4s aren't considered appropriate transportation to satisfy users needs over there.
Maybe we need them for the potholes - can't see any compelling reason to own them. Was looking at the ladder frame of a new 4X4(through massive wheelarch) at eyelevel while parked in traffic today and was thinking to myself they are all bright and shiny but the majority of these things are very agricultural at heart.

colm_mcm

most SUV's have gone boyind ladder frames and have evoled into cool estates (with token 4X4 ability)

Lex Luthor

Mailman wrote:

When I was over in Germany on work last month I was surprised by exactly how few 4X4s were on the road over there in comparission to here.

Why would you want one over there anyway, when its all autobahns....I'd take a M5 over there any day over a X5

pburns

Most of us on this forum are car-lovers of one persusion or another so lets ignore the (weak) environmental debate for now.

The problem I have with SUVs is:
(a.) higher centre of gravity - even the best 4x4s won't handle as well as a car, or be as manoeuvrable in a sticky situation.
(b.) Imperial College, London/British Medical Journal / crash statistics from Admiral Insurance - like it or not there's strong evidence out there that those who are the second parties to a 4x4 crash come off second best. From the above source:

...same research suggests SUVs also do far more damage in an accident and even more worryingly, according to New Scientist, a pedestrian hit by an SUV is twice as likely to be killed as one hit by a saloon car.

junkyard wrote:

...I've been driving SUVs for years and have never had an accident...

junkyard wrote:

And what relevance does a U.K survey held on U.K. drivers have on Irish drivers exactly?

Those are pretty...eh, weak...arguments to say the least... If people want to drive SUVs in a free society fine. However the indignant and irrational response when the fallacies of these yokes is pointed out is pretty laughable.

Anan1

Stekelly wrote:

I love the people that give out about "gas guzzling" suvs. Unless you ride a bike and use no petrol, stfu.These same people arnt on ranting about large engine cars, why not? I drive a 2.5 petrol car that gets mpg in the low 20's. I reckon most new suvs are a good bit better than that. Yet no long winded threads giving out about me.

Did you actually read the article linked to the top of this thread? It's about accident statistics & driver behaviour, not fuel consumption.

junkyard

pburns wrote:

Most of us on this forum are car-lovers of one persusion or another so lets ignore the (weak) environmental debate for now.

The problem I have with SUVs is:
(a.) higher centre of gravity - even the best 4x4s won't handle as well as a car, or be as manoeuvrable in a sticky situation.
(b.) Imperial College, London/British Medical Journal / crash statistics from Admiral Insurance - like it or not there's strong evidence out there that those who are the second parties to a 4x4 crash come off second best. From the above source:

...same research suggests SUVs also do far more damage in an accident and even more worryingly, according to New Scientist, a pedestrian hit by an SUV is twice as likely to be killed as one hit by a saloon car.





Those are pretty...eh, weak...arguments to say the least... If people want to drive SUVs in a free society fine. However the indignant and irrational response when the fallacies of these yokes is pointed out is pretty laughable.

Obviously the bigger the vehicle the bigger the risk, a large van or mini bus is just or more dangerous on the road, should they be banned too?
Tbh I'm s**t sick of these stupid arguments like "I drive a small car and I'm afraid of anything bigger than me on the road so lets ban them or make it uncool or politically incorrect to drive anything bigger.
If human kind didn't progress we'd all still be living in caves.

Anan1

junkyard wrote:

Tbh I'm s**t sick of these stupid arguments like "I drive a small car and I'm afraid of anything bigger than me on the road so lets ban them or make it uncool or politically incorrect to drive anything bigger.

Why don't you try addressing the results of the research that was quoted in the article, instead of huffing and puffing around it?:)

colm_mcm

I think instead of blaming the SUVs, we should be looking at the alleged behaviour of SUV drivers due to their confidence in the safety of their motor.

Anan1

colm_mcm wrote:

I think instead of blaming the SUVs, we should be looking at the alleged behaviour of SUV drivers due to their confidence in the safety of their motor.

That's because you, unlike some, actually read the article.;)

junkyard

No matter what the argument there is always a for and against. I've read many an article in my time that was disproved over time so just because some university has done research under controlled conditions doesn't mean its set in stone, as it were, proof that their findings are to be believed.
It is only common sense that a bigger vehicle is going to take longer to stop, is going to be less maneuverable and in some cases heaver on fuel. I suppose your next argument is to make cars smaller as they would be lighter on fuel, wouldn't hurt people as much if they crash into them etc., We'll all end up on bikes that is if some study somewhere, finds that they present a serious hazard on the roads too. I think common sense is the order of the day, if you drive a SUV make allowances for other road users even the ones who shouldn't be where they are in many cases. And just in case you think I mean that I own the road or something I mean the motorist who pulls out in front of you without looking in the mirror or who thinks that they can pull any stunt on the road that they choose.

Mickk

I drive a 6l petrol hummer that gets 8 miles to the gallon, I honestly think I would sell it only for the sheer pleasure I get from the looks of utter contempt I get from certain cyclists and individuals with dreadlocks. It really makes my day, I hope I see you one day anan1

On a serious note if this hairbrain goverment got its finger out and realised the amount of them on Irish roads is largely due to the fact you can import them without paying vrt and tax them for 250euro. They have created this situation by being such extortionate thieves in the first place (vrt).

colm_mcm

I think you're confusing SUV's with Commercial 4X4's

Mickk

Well what would you call a hummer or an x5? I paid 50 euro vrt on my hummer, 3.8tonnes of road wrecking gas guzzling destruction but the goverment wants ~3k vrt on a toyota prius?

They can swivel on it I am sick of being robbed in this country, my next car is going to be a 6l 400bhp 1970 mustang fast back, a complete rebuild with a brand new engine and everything brand spanking on the treated old chassis and again it'll be 50vrt and 42 tax!

colm_mcm

This study was carried out on SUV's.

Mickk

Both hummers and x5's are suv's? What point are you trying to make?

colm_mcm

My point is that the government charging €50 VRT on commercial vehicles doesn't encourage people to go out and buy SUV's. Given that the study was carried out in the UK, where commercial 4X4's aren't that common, I can't really see where you're coming from.

SUV's are popular the world over, and commercial jeep sales are only one segment of the 4X4 market.

The sort of person who buys a commercial jeep is using it as an alternative to a van, which would come in for the same criticicisms for handling and pedestrian safety

I'm guessing that this study is implying that the type of person who drives an SUV is the type of person that is more likely to not wear a seatbelt, talk on a mobile and cause more accidents. Your conservative, law abiding citizen is more likely to drive a saloon? The thing that bugs me is people assuming that the SUV turns you into some sort of monster behind the wheel.

On a serious note if this hairbrain goverment got its finger out and realised the amount of them on Irish roads is largely due to the fact you can import them without paying vrt and tax them for 250euro. They have created this situation by being such extortionate thieves in the first place (vrt).