Hunting Cammo (Split from Type of Shooting Thread)

Umiq88

rifles are handy alright if you cant get close have you got a pic of the gun sock john

johngalway

I'll go take a photo now, hopefully have it up soon if meteor (read *****) lets me send it to my email addy. Got it on ebay.

John

Ok here we go, camo sock covered shotgun, lightweight gloves and head neck veil thingy all in advantage timber.



I know it looks rough cut, it's a very stretchy material so it's not easy to get precise, this will do for me.



It pretty much follows the contours of the gun, when off the gun it's got fatter bits for the fore end and stock and narrows up for the barrel etc



The other side

Dvs

Hello Johngalway,
I would be interested to see a photo of you dressed in that advantage timber camo with your gun sock.

Because I am curious as to how much it camoflages you,
as its not very Irish countryside looking....

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

Hello Johngalway,
I would be interested to see a photo of you dressed in that advantage timber camo with your gun sock.

Because I am curious as to how much it camoflages you,
as its not very Irish countryside looking....

Dvs.

well it doesn't really matter what colours are in the cammo as long as it breaks up your outline which his gear would do. There could be ornage in there for all it matters.

johngalway

Dvs wrote:

Hello Johngalway,
I would be interested to see a photo of you dressed in that advantage timber camo with your gun sock.

Because I am curious as to how much it camoflages you,
as its not very Irish countryside looking....

Dvs.

Hi Dvs

I don't have any photos of me in it yet as I need to complete the gear, namely get a jacket and trousers (forgot to put the boonie hat in the picture). Vegetas right. It's breaking up outlines (and other aspects like keeping still, having the wind in mind, being quiet, not skylining etc etc) which is important if you subscribe to the theory that animals are colour blind. Look up the realtree.com sight and have a look at hardwoods blaze

To properly blend in with the countryside I'd say a ghillie suit is the only thing that'd do the job. I flirted with the idea for a while instead of buying this stuff, but I think it's OTT for what I need.

John

Umiq88

yeah apparently you can use illumious orange camoflauge to hunt deer seeing as they're colour blind

Dvs

Hello Johngalway,
I understand about breaking up your outline and that the colour is not an issue with animals due to their supposed not seeing colour the way humans do.

Movement is the main give away to animals,
break up the outline of the face and the hands and don't stand in the open and most will not make you out unless they pick up your scent and are worried by it, this is not even a given as people are everywhere here, it's not the same as if you were hunting in Alaska a hundred miles from any one else.

Apparently washing your hunting clothes in modern washing powders,
makes them reflect light and is seen as a glow by animals.

My reason for asking is that, by not blending in and sticking out like a sore thumb in realtree camo as an alternative to plain greens and browns, it may draw unwanted and unnecessary attention on you and your hunting activities.

YMMV.

Dvs.

Umiq88

out of all the jackets iv seen gortex and all the likes i find the barbour wax jackets to blend in the best with the countrys side

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

My reason for asking is that, by not blending in and sticking out like a sore thumb in realtree camo as an alternative to plain greens and browns, it may draw unwanted and unnecessary attention on you and your hunting activities.

YMMV.

Dvs.

Those all green and all brown jackets are not effective as camo. You may as well (if we are saying animals are colour blind) go out in a white lab coat. You would be spotted a mile away by a crow or pigeon in one of those jackets.

They are lovely for pheasant shooting or woodcock shooting where the birds sit tight but for flighting birds such as pigeons, crows and ducks camo and even more so real tree camo works very well.

I swear to god i don't understand the camo bashing that goes on

Umiq88

yeah i guess if you follow that theory anyway i dont think it makes a huge difference ive shot pigeons in a camo shirt an ive shot pigeons in a single colour shirt i think movement is the key issue

johngalway

I don't mind if people know I hunt or not. I'm pretty open about it tbh. If other people object that's their right to do so, I won't loose much sleep over it AFAIK everything I'm doing is legal. The land I hunt on at the moment is either family owned or by farmers I've known all my life so I don't fear for my permissions.

It's the animals I consider when thinking camo, if indeed I'm wrong and I get spotted a lot by them then it'll be time to reconsider the ghillie suit which I'll 'attempt' to make myself and tailor to local scenery.

But I am considerate of other people when I'm out. I try to keep amount of shots to a minimum. When lamping I don't flash houses or roads with the lamp or go places I'm not supposed to be. It's just common sense really.

I'd agree (again, this is becoming a habit) with Vegeta about the single colour gear. Even if you can only see black/white and shades of grey, one single block of colour will stand out IMO nearly as obvious to animals as the orange camo does to us.

Anyway, each to their own as they say

John

17REM

hello, anyone thinkin camo gear dosent work have a look at any of the warrener videos and u will be proved wrong fairly fast! foxes 30yds away from him in daylight lookin straight at him!

TomBeckett

I Think that a Ghillie Suit is the only way to go I got one in Mossy oak from. www.the ghilliestore.com about six months ago and it is great. only thing is its very warm to wear and it itches like be jesus:eek:
but a fox or a deer could walk right past you and not see you unless your wearing a gallon of old spice:eek: :eek:

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

Hello Johngalway,
I understand about breaking up your outline and that the colour is not an issue with animals due to their supposed not seeing colour the way humans do.

Movement is the main give away to animals,
break up the outline of the face and the hands and don't stand in the open and most will not make you out unless they pick up your scent and are worried by it, this is not even a given as people are everywhere here, it's not the same as if you were hunting in Alaska a hundred miles from any one else.

Apparently washing your hunting clothes in modern washing powders,
makes them reflect light and is seen as a glow by animals.

My reason for asking is that, by not blending in and sticking out like a sore thumb in realtree camo as an alternative to plain greens and browns, it may draw unwanted and unnecessary attention on you and your hunting activities.

YMMV.

Dvs.

Not true sir.
I shoot a lot, ( part time pest controler) camo is my main clothing, if you are ment to be at the place your in, its not an issue.
If your a poacher, then you will look obvious, so make sure you have written permmision to be their.
Camo, in any form is not illegal, let me tell you this now.
It is a very essential part of your rifle shooting make up.
As for washing powder effecting cammo, all i can say from many years of experience and being out in the feild nearly everyday is, CRAP, it does not effect it.
Keelan.

Vegeta

psittacosis wrote:

yeah i guess if you follow that theory anyway i dont think it makes a huge difference ive shot pigeons in a camo shirt an ive shot pigeons in a single colour shirt i think movement is the key issue

Ok i do agree with you to a certain extent here. As I live on Lough Derg I shoot (well i fire at em anyway) a lot of duck and geese and have done so in camo and normal shooting vests/jackets.

What i find about the normal shooting equipment is that if you sit really still with your face to the ground that yes they will fly in to you but the minute you mount the gun your face, eyes and hands are exposed and the birds flare as the see you. I have nothing against this type of clothing as I wear it for shooting pheasant and woodcock or when clay shooting.

With camo gear, real tree pants and jacket with hood up or veil on you can watch the birds fly right over you and even as you mount the gun they may not notice you.

I suppose each to his own at the end of the day. I will always use camo as it has worked very well for me. Whenever i go shooting i usually have a shotgun, am wearing some form of camo be it pants or jacket and a dog trotting along beside me. I'd like to know what the anti-camo people on this forum think i will be mistaken for, a soldier, a game keeper or maybe just maybe a hunter!

Rew

Keelan wrote:

As for washing powder effecting cammo, all i can say from many years of experience and being out in the feild nearly everyday is, CRAP, it does not effect it.

Well there is some truth to that. Some powders use chemicals to make them look brighter (whites whiter!), Radeon was a big culprit for this and alot of people couldn't use it because of the reaction their skin would have to it. Iv a feeling that the brightness was more in the infared and ultra violet bands so it would depend on the animals visual spectrum.

Some military cammo is IR treated to reduce the amount of IR it reflects and this can be washed out of it.

I also know that the current issure Irish cammo fades very badly depending on how its washed

I doubt any of this really effects the average Irish hunter as Keelan says.

Hezz700

Lads,

This here be my 2 cents, Our lovely Irish complexion and movement in the hide is what set the alarm bells going. don't get me wrong , i use U.S military issue camo along with mud brown and olive green, works fine. I think that somethimes we lost sight of the fact that a hunter should be skilled enough to track and trap/shoot his qarry without the aide of gagets and technologicallly advanced clothing. and i know this sounds disgusting but i don't wash my hunting cloths to often. Its amazing how well you can blend in.
Regarding Night outtings, i wear dark Navy from head to toe, better than anything else you might think of.:D

Hezz

johngalway

Sorry for derailing your thread Psittacosis!

Maybe the mods could move the camo bit to a thread of it's own

John

coyote6

I have a design for a very portable light weight ghillie suit that covers you upper torso. A light weight bottom piece could also be made using this method. It is more practical than the heavy traditional ghillies I've made w/ the skid pads etc.

Take a piece of 1 inch (or so) netting and cut it to make a cape (not much longer than your arse it'll get hung up) w/ short arms and a hood. Stitch or glue it to a same sized piece of camo netting w/ smaller holes. Only spot stich it though because you'll need it to be loose for the burlap. Use spot stiches every 5 holes on the big netting.

Cut individual strands of burlap (time consuming) and start tying clumps of 10-15 strands on each square (from bottom up). Once this task is done (it'll take you about a six pack:D ) run a piece of parachute cord through the hood area and the arm areas. Use a barrell toggle on the cords and tie knots in them to keep em' from comin' off.

I use a light/medium burlap (just one color). This color is a universal dead vegetation color. Then when you get to your final hunting spot carefully pick native vegeatation and garnish it with that.

Very light and portable. Nothing matches like the real stuff you're hunkered down in!

Hope that makes sense!

Rew

If people are making ghillie suit's remember to treat them with a flame retardant chemical. Burlap/Hessin is extreamly flamible and people have lost their lives due to one accidental spark.

coyote6

You are right indeed! Spray the burlap until it is dripping wet then let dry.

Dvs

Ok All
I may not be able to answer anyones opinions on camo with such eloquence
as some and answer CRAP to them...

My opinions about washing powder effects on camo are based on,
research by the Military and various makers of camo clothing with millions of dollars to spend on the testing........

But I suppose saying its CRAP is a reasonable argument.:rolleyes:


However, my opinions on the use of camo have been somewhat distorted,
My original comment was about the fact that the realtree or other patterns designed for other terrain do not blend in with Irish terrain.

I stated that browns and greens were more appropriate,
this was interpreted by some as plain green or plain brown, these will suffice in some instances.

But this was not what I meant, browns and greens used in camo clothing as opposed to light browns greys and yellows used in some patterns that are designed for other terrains are far more effective and do not make you stand out, or draw attention, of people whom would not notice you otherwise,
but for your realtree, desert or urban camo.

You can argue that you are not breaking any laws,
you have permission to be where you are shooting,
let the busy bodys mind their own business!

well, they would not be busy bodys if they did that would they....

How many of you can't shoot in places that you used to?
not because the farmer did not give you permission but because houses have been built around the land,
that you used to shoot on and not meet a soul.

how many of you involved in clay bird shooting, that have shot in the same location for years,have heard complaints about noise from shooting,
because new houses have been built nearby?


How many of you have been asked,
why you shoot those lovely wild pheasants,
that would not be there in most places,
but for local gunclubs buying and stocking them.

Or why would you want to kill a poor defenseless animal, it's so cruel!

The countryside in Ireland is changing and not for the better,
People moving to the country to embrace country living, a better way of life!

And then when the get there, complain about everything,
object to countryside shooting/hunting sports,
and want to sanitise the countryside.

"what is that terrible smell?"

That, would be cow ****e Mrs.

Rant over....
YMMV

Dvs.

johngalway

Dvs wrote:

Ok All
However, my opinions on the use of camo have been somewhat distorted,
My original comment was about the fact that the realtree or other patterns designed for other terrain do not blend in with Irish terrain.

I stated that browns and greens were more appropriate,
this was interpreted by some as plain green or plain brown, these will suffice in some instances.

But this was not what I meant, browns and greens used in camo clothing as opposed to light browns greys and yellows used in some patterns that are designed for other terrains are far more effective and do not make you stand out, or draw attention, of people whom would not notice you otherwise,
but for your realtree, desert or urban camo.

You can argue that you are not breaking any laws,
you have permission to be where you are shooting.

Firstly, which Irish terrain? The mountain and boglands which turn from light yellowish/white and brown/black in winter to lush green and brown black in summer, along with all shades of grey with rock? Or, the greens and browns of better grasslands? Or do you mean camo for forestry? I live in the former, but I have a limited budget so I picked a pattern which I believed would suit my needs best for my situation.

Secondly, I'm not arguing that I'm not breaking any laws, I'm stating fact

Thirdly, I still don't give a damn about busybodies, if I did I'd never sleep a wink not just because of hunting/shooting but because that breed makes it their business to be stuck in everyone elses business regardless of what you do or don't do.

Finally, MY realtree suits MY needs in MY opinion. I promise not to force you to wear it

Now I'm gonna bow out of this thread as I'm sorry I ever mentioned it :rolleyes:

John

Hezz700

Fair play to ya, John! nicely put.

Vegeta

I definitely agree with Dvs on the changing countryside, over the last decade we have lost so much good shooting land that it saddens me.

With regards camo there are two different types disruptive camouflage or blending camouflage.

Disruptive camouflage produces its effect by breaking up and thereby concealing the structural lines of the object which it hides. An exact match with the environment's colors is much less important than the patterning of the regions of color themselves. Disruptive patterns are designed to counter in-built perceptual models

Blending camouflage is a more obvious approach. The camouflaged object is shielded by matching one or more of the following - the color, texture, shape, or pattern of other objects in the environment Ghille suits are a perfect example, no one wearing one has a human outline and is made up of surrounding shrub and fauna.

even though real tree camo does not have the colours spot on it is still fairly disruptive, this is why orange real tree camo still works for deer. People may say deer are colour blind as are a lot of animals well then colour shouldn't matter a bit then should it.

I get annoyed when people say camo has negative image attached to it. Of course it does if people keep that attitude going. As i said in a previous post what are people afraid of being confused with a soldier, a game keeper, a hunter or a member of a certain Irish Republican Army. If it is the last we'd hardly be out with a dog, sitting in a hide and shooting birds, vermin and deer if we were in the fore mentioned militia group.

Whenever i meet anyone out shooting I take off my veil (if wearing it, usually only on hte shore for duck) so they can see my face and give them a big salute.

Keelan

johngalway wrote:

Firstly, which Irish terrain? The mountain and boglands which turn from light yellowish/white and brown/black in winter to lush green and brown black in summer, along with all shades of grey with rock? Or, the greens and browns of better grasslands? Or do you mean camo for forestry? I live in the former, but I have a limited budget so I picked a pattern which I believed would suit my needs best for my situation.

Secondly, I'm not arguing that I'm not breaking any laws, I'm stating fact

Thirdly, I still don't give a damn about busybodies, if I did I'd never sleep a wink not just because of hunting/shooting but because that breed makes it their business to be stuck in everyone elses business regardless of what you do or don't do.

Finally, MY realtree suits MY needs in MY opinion. I promise not to force you to wear it

Now I'm gonna bow out of this thread as I'm sorry I ever mentioned it :rolleyes:

John

Well said.;)

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

Ok All
I may not be able to answer anyones opinions on camo with such eloquence
as some and answer CRAP to them...

My opinions about washing powder effects on camo are based on,
research by the Military and various makers of camo clothing with millions of dollars to spend on the testing........

But I suppose saying its CRAP is a reasonable argument.:rolleyes:


However, my opinions on the use of camo have been somewhat distorted,
My original comment was about the fact that the realtree or other patterns designed for other terrain do not blend in with Irish terrain.

I stated that browns and greens were more appropriate,
this was interpreted by some as plain green or plain brown, these will suffice in some instances.

But this was not what I meant, browns and greens used in camo clothing as opposed to light browns greys and yellows used in some patterns that are designed for other terrains are far more effective and do not make you stand out, or draw attention, of people whom would not notice you otherwise,
but for your realtree, desert or urban camo.

You can argue that you are not breaking any laws,
you have permission to be where you are shooting,
let the busy bodys mind their own business!

well, they would not be busy bodys if they did that would they....

How many of you can't shoot in places that you used to?
not because the farmer did not give you permission but because houses have been built around the land,
that you used to shoot on and not meet a soul.

how many of you involved in clay bird shooting, that have shot in the same location for years,have heard complaints about noise from shooting,
because new houses have been built nearby?


How many of you have been asked,
why you shoot those lovely wild pheasants,
that would not be there in most places,
but for local gunclubs buying and stocking them.

Or why would you want to kill a poor defenseless animal, it's so cruel!

The countryside in Ireland is changing and not for the better,
People moving to the country to embrace country living, a better way of life!

And then when the get there, complain about everything,
object to countryside shooting/hunting sports,
and want to sanitise the countryside.

"what is that terrible smell?"

That, would be cow ****e Mrs.

Rant over....
YMMV

Dvs.

I will say it once more and go, i have been shooting for 24 years and have used cammo 90% of the time, never had a problem with animals seeing me after washing and never had a problem with folks seeing me in it ither.
Know your animals and know your humans, this has worked for me and still does.
Keelan.

Dvs

Keelan wrote:

I will say it once more and go, i have been shooting for 24 years and have used cammo 90% of the time, never had a problem with animals seeing me after washing and never had a problem with folks seeing me in it ither.
Know your animals and know your humans, this has worked for me and still does.
Keelan.

Well you can say it as many times as you like, stay or go as you like it still does not change the facts, I have been been shooting for over 25 years also and have worn camo and worn jeans and a T-shirt and never had problems with animals seeing me!

Why is this?

Because we live in a very small and ever increasingly populated country,
animals here, see humans all the time even the extra nervous animals here are exposed to humans all the time and most of the humans they see don't shoot at them,hopefully those that do only shoot once.

If they got spooked at every sighting or scent of humans, they would never stop running, then seeing or scenting another human turn and run again, non stop.

so mostly if they get suprised, they make a little run,
then stop to see what they ran from,
because they know it probably just one of those bloody humans again!

However, in other parts of the world where human contact is less and the animals senses are not so dulled,a human scent is out of place,
and alerts them to danger, they also take notice of the glowing camo issue,
because they don't see a broken camo pattern, they see the glow which is out of place, and it makes the difference between getting an opportunity to take a shot or not!

So if may not be a factor in your shooting exploits,
but that does not change the facts.

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

Well you can say it as many times as you like, stay or go as you like it still does not change the facts, I have been been shooting for over 25 years also and have worn camo and worn jeans and a T-shirt and never had problems with animals seeing me!

Why is this?

Because we live in a very small and ever increasingly populated country,
animals here, see humans all the time even the extra nervous animals here are exposed to humans all the time and most of the humans they see don't shoot at them,hopefully those that do only shoot once.

If they got spooked at every sighting or scent of humans, they would never stop running, then seeing or scenting another human turn and run again, non stop.

so mostly if they get suprised, they make a little run,
then stop to see what they ran from,
because they know it probably just one of those bloody humans again!

However, in other parts of the world where human contact is less and the animals senses are not so dulled,a human scent is out of place,
and alerts them to danger, they also take notice of the glowing camo issue,
because they don't see a broken camo pattern, they see the glow which is out of place, and it makes the difference between getting an opportunity to take a shot or not!

So if may not be a factor in your shooting exploits,
but that does not change the facts.

Dvs.

I am not arguing with the washing powder point as i don't know enough about the topic.

Well Ireland had about 6.6-8 million people around the time of the famine so actually we are only gettin back close to our population of 160 years ago.

How many wild duck/geese pay visits to towns, 10% maybe 20%, Crows are one of the smartest birds out there and in places have learned to use tools and have decent language skills if tutored properly. Also how many country foxes/deer have daily meetings with people, considering they are up very late and get up very early i'd say not a lot of them to be honest.

So while you may harp on about facts Dvs unless you are shooting in Phoenix Park I think they are a little distorted.

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

Also how many country foxes/deer have daily meetings with people, considering they are up very late and get up very early i'd say not a lot of them to be honest.

So while you may harp on about facts Dvs unless you are shooting in Phoenix Park I think they are a little distorted.

I did not say,
country foxes and deer are having daily meetings with people,
people are all around them scent, noise, cars, houses.

They don't have to meet them face to face to become familiar with humans,
They are not living in a high state of alertness because people are all around.

The deer in the phoenix park are just an extreme illustration of this fact.

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

Because we live in a very small and ever increasingly populated country,
animals here, see humans all the time even the extra nervous animals here are exposed to humans all the time and most of the humans they see don't shoot at them,hopefully those that do only shoot once.
Dvs.

Again Ireland had a bigger population 160 years ago according to the census of 1841 and was probably even a more rural country back then.

If anything i'd say there are less people living in the countryside in modern Ireland as there is a general trend for families to move to towns because of schools and work. That is not to say houses are not being built in the country.

I ask you how often do deer/fox/duck/geese/snipe/grouse stop to take a look at you when hunting. It hasn't happened to me once in a decade of shooting.