Hunting Cammo (Split from Type of Shooting Thread)

Umiq88

rifles are handy alright if you cant get close have you got a pic of the gun sock john

johngalway

I'll go take a photo now, hopefully have it up soon if meteor (read *****) lets me send it to my email addy. Got it on ebay.

John

Ok here we go, camo sock covered shotgun, lightweight gloves and head neck veil thingy all in advantage timber.



I know it looks rough cut, it's a very stretchy material so it's not easy to get precise, this will do for me.



It pretty much follows the contours of the gun, when off the gun it's got fatter bits for the fore end and stock and narrows up for the barrel etc



The other side

Dvs

Hello Johngalway,
I would be interested to see a photo of you dressed in that advantage timber camo with your gun sock.

Because I am curious as to how much it camoflages you,
as its not very Irish countryside looking....

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

Hello Johngalway,
I would be interested to see a photo of you dressed in that advantage timber camo with your gun sock.

Because I am curious as to how much it camoflages you,
as its not very Irish countryside looking....

Dvs.

well it doesn't really matter what colours are in the cammo as long as it breaks up your outline which his gear would do. There could be ornage in there for all it matters.

johngalway

Dvs wrote:

Hello Johngalway,
I would be interested to see a photo of you dressed in that advantage timber camo with your gun sock.

Because I am curious as to how much it camoflages you,
as its not very Irish countryside looking....

Dvs.

Hi Dvs

I don't have any photos of me in it yet as I need to complete the gear, namely get a jacket and trousers (forgot to put the boonie hat in the picture). Vegetas right. It's breaking up outlines (and other aspects like keeping still, having the wind in mind, being quiet, not skylining etc etc) which is important if you subscribe to the theory that animals are colour blind. Look up the realtree.com sight and have a look at hardwoods blaze

To properly blend in with the countryside I'd say a ghillie suit is the only thing that'd do the job. I flirted with the idea for a while instead of buying this stuff, but I think it's OTT for what I need.

John

Umiq88

yeah apparently you can use illumious orange camoflauge to hunt deer seeing as they're colour blind

Dvs

Hello Johngalway,
I understand about breaking up your outline and that the colour is not an issue with animals due to their supposed not seeing colour the way humans do.

Movement is the main give away to animals,
break up the outline of the face and the hands and don't stand in the open and most will not make you out unless they pick up your scent and are worried by it, this is not even a given as people are everywhere here, it's not the same as if you were hunting in Alaska a hundred miles from any one else.

Apparently washing your hunting clothes in modern washing powders,
makes them reflect light and is seen as a glow by animals.

My reason for asking is that, by not blending in and sticking out like a sore thumb in realtree camo as an alternative to plain greens and browns, it may draw unwanted and unnecessary attention on you and your hunting activities.

YMMV.

Dvs.

Umiq88

out of all the jackets iv seen gortex and all the likes i find the barbour wax jackets to blend in the best with the countrys side

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

My reason for asking is that, by not blending in and sticking out like a sore thumb in realtree camo as an alternative to plain greens and browns, it may draw unwanted and unnecessary attention on you and your hunting activities.

YMMV.

Dvs.

Those all green and all brown jackets are not effective as camo. You may as well (if we are saying animals are colour blind) go out in a white lab coat. You would be spotted a mile away by a crow or pigeon in one of those jackets.

They are lovely for pheasant shooting or woodcock shooting where the birds sit tight but for flighting birds such as pigeons, crows and ducks camo and even more so real tree camo works very well.

I swear to god i don't understand the camo bashing that goes on

Umiq88

yeah i guess if you follow that theory anyway i dont think it makes a huge difference ive shot pigeons in a camo shirt an ive shot pigeons in a single colour shirt i think movement is the key issue

johngalway

I don't mind if people know I hunt or not. I'm pretty open about it tbh. If other people object that's their right to do so, I won't loose much sleep over it AFAIK everything I'm doing is legal. The land I hunt on at the moment is either family owned or by farmers I've known all my life so I don't fear for my permissions.

It's the animals I consider when thinking camo, if indeed I'm wrong and I get spotted a lot by them then it'll be time to reconsider the ghillie suit which I'll 'attempt' to make myself and tailor to local scenery.

But I am considerate of other people when I'm out. I try to keep amount of shots to a minimum. When lamping I don't flash houses or roads with the lamp or go places I'm not supposed to be. It's just common sense really.

I'd agree (again, this is becoming a habit) with Vegeta about the single colour gear. Even if you can only see black/white and shades of grey, one single block of colour will stand out IMO nearly as obvious to animals as the orange camo does to us.

Anyway, each to their own as they say

John

17REM

hello, anyone thinkin camo gear dosent work have a look at any of the warrener videos and u will be proved wrong fairly fast! foxes 30yds away from him in daylight lookin straight at him!

TomBeckett

I Think that a Ghillie Suit is the only way to go I got one in Mossy oak from. www.the ghilliestore.com about six months ago and it is great. only thing is its very warm to wear and it itches like be jesus:eek:
but a fox or a deer could walk right past you and not see you unless your wearing a gallon of old spice:eek: :eek:

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

Hello Johngalway,
I understand about breaking up your outline and that the colour is not an issue with animals due to their supposed not seeing colour the way humans do.

Movement is the main give away to animals,
break up the outline of the face and the hands and don't stand in the open and most will not make you out unless they pick up your scent and are worried by it, this is not even a given as people are everywhere here, it's not the same as if you were hunting in Alaska a hundred miles from any one else.

Apparently washing your hunting clothes in modern washing powders,
makes them reflect light and is seen as a glow by animals.

My reason for asking is that, by not blending in and sticking out like a sore thumb in realtree camo as an alternative to plain greens and browns, it may draw unwanted and unnecessary attention on you and your hunting activities.

YMMV.

Dvs.

Not true sir.
I shoot a lot, ( part time pest controler) camo is my main clothing, if you are ment to be at the place your in, its not an issue.
If your a poacher, then you will look obvious, so make sure you have written permmision to be their.
Camo, in any form is not illegal, let me tell you this now.
It is a very essential part of your rifle shooting make up.
As for washing powder effecting cammo, all i can say from many years of experience and being out in the feild nearly everyday is, CRAP, it does not effect it.
Keelan.

Vegeta

psittacosis wrote:

yeah i guess if you follow that theory anyway i dont think it makes a huge difference ive shot pigeons in a camo shirt an ive shot pigeons in a single colour shirt i think movement is the key issue

Ok i do agree with you to a certain extent here. As I live on Lough Derg I shoot (well i fire at em anyway) a lot of duck and geese and have done so in camo and normal shooting vests/jackets.

What i find about the normal shooting equipment is that if you sit really still with your face to the ground that yes they will fly in to you but the minute you mount the gun your face, eyes and hands are exposed and the birds flare as the see you. I have nothing against this type of clothing as I wear it for shooting pheasant and woodcock or when clay shooting.

With camo gear, real tree pants and jacket with hood up or veil on you can watch the birds fly right over you and even as you mount the gun they may not notice you.

I suppose each to his own at the end of the day. I will always use camo as it has worked very well for me. Whenever i go shooting i usually have a shotgun, am wearing some form of camo be it pants or jacket and a dog trotting along beside me. I'd like to know what the anti-camo people on this forum think i will be mistaken for, a soldier, a game keeper or maybe just maybe a hunter!

Rew

Keelan wrote:

As for washing powder effecting cammo, all i can say from many years of experience and being out in the feild nearly everyday is, CRAP, it does not effect it.

Well there is some truth to that. Some powders use chemicals to make them look brighter (whites whiter!), Radeon was a big culprit for this and alot of people couldn't use it because of the reaction their skin would have to it. Iv a feeling that the brightness was more in the infared and ultra violet bands so it would depend on the animals visual spectrum.

Some military cammo is IR treated to reduce the amount of IR it reflects and this can be washed out of it.

I also know that the current issure Irish cammo fades very badly depending on how its washed

I doubt any of this really effects the average Irish hunter as Keelan says.

Hezz700

Lads,

This here be my 2 cents, Our lovely Irish complexion and movement in the hide is what set the alarm bells going. don't get me wrong , i use U.S military issue camo along with mud brown and olive green, works fine. I think that somethimes we lost sight of the fact that a hunter should be skilled enough to track and trap/shoot his qarry without the aide of gagets and technologicallly advanced clothing. and i know this sounds disgusting but i don't wash my hunting cloths to often. Its amazing how well you can blend in.
Regarding Night outtings, i wear dark Navy from head to toe, better than anything else you might think of.:D

Hezz

johngalway

Sorry for derailing your thread Psittacosis!

Maybe the mods could move the camo bit to a thread of it's own

John

coyote6

I have a design for a very portable light weight ghillie suit that covers you upper torso. A light weight bottom piece could also be made using this method. It is more practical than the heavy traditional ghillies I've made w/ the skid pads etc.

Take a piece of 1 inch (or so) netting and cut it to make a cape (not much longer than your arse it'll get hung up) w/ short arms and a hood. Stitch or glue it to a same sized piece of camo netting w/ smaller holes. Only spot stich it though because you'll need it to be loose for the burlap. Use spot stiches every 5 holes on the big netting.

Cut individual strands of burlap (time consuming) and start tying clumps of 10-15 strands on each square (from bottom up). Once this task is done (it'll take you about a six pack:D ) run a piece of parachute cord through the hood area and the arm areas. Use a barrell toggle on the cords and tie knots in them to keep em' from comin' off.

I use a light/medium burlap (just one color). This color is a universal dead vegetation color. Then when you get to your final hunting spot carefully pick native vegeatation and garnish it with that.

Very light and portable. Nothing matches like the real stuff you're hunkered down in!

Hope that makes sense!

Rew

If people are making ghillie suit's remember to treat them with a flame retardant chemical. Burlap/Hessin is extreamly flamible and people have lost their lives due to one accidental spark.

coyote6

You are right indeed! Spray the burlap until it is dripping wet then let dry.

Dvs

Ok All
I may not be able to answer anyones opinions on camo with such eloquence
as some and answer CRAP to them...

My opinions about washing powder effects on camo are based on,
research by the Military and various makers of camo clothing with millions of dollars to spend on the testing........

But I suppose saying its CRAP is a reasonable argument.:rolleyes:


However, my opinions on the use of camo have been somewhat distorted,
My original comment was about the fact that the realtree or other patterns designed for other terrain do not blend in with Irish terrain.

I stated that browns and greens were more appropriate,
this was interpreted by some as plain green or plain brown, these will suffice in some instances.

But this was not what I meant, browns and greens used in camo clothing as opposed to light browns greys and yellows used in some patterns that are designed for other terrains are far more effective and do not make you stand out, or draw attention, of people whom would not notice you otherwise,
but for your realtree, desert or urban camo.

You can argue that you are not breaking any laws,
you have permission to be where you are shooting,
let the busy bodys mind their own business!

well, they would not be busy bodys if they did that would they....

How many of you can't shoot in places that you used to?
not because the farmer did not give you permission but because houses have been built around the land,
that you used to shoot on and not meet a soul.

how many of you involved in clay bird shooting, that have shot in the same location for years,have heard complaints about noise from shooting,
because new houses have been built nearby?


How many of you have been asked,
why you shoot those lovely wild pheasants,
that would not be there in most places,
but for local gunclubs buying and stocking them.

Or why would you want to kill a poor defenseless animal, it's so cruel!

The countryside in Ireland is changing and not for the better,
People moving to the country to embrace country living, a better way of life!

And then when the get there, complain about everything,
object to countryside shooting/hunting sports,
and want to sanitise the countryside.

"what is that terrible smell?"

That, would be cow ****e Mrs.

Rant over....
YMMV

Dvs.

johngalway

Dvs wrote:

Ok All
However, my opinions on the use of camo have been somewhat distorted,
My original comment was about the fact that the realtree or other patterns designed for other terrain do not blend in with Irish terrain.

I stated that browns and greens were more appropriate,
this was interpreted by some as plain green or plain brown, these will suffice in some instances.

But this was not what I meant, browns and greens used in camo clothing as opposed to light browns greys and yellows used in some patterns that are designed for other terrains are far more effective and do not make you stand out, or draw attention, of people whom would not notice you otherwise,
but for your realtree, desert or urban camo.

You can argue that you are not breaking any laws,
you have permission to be where you are shooting.

Firstly, which Irish terrain? The mountain and boglands which turn from light yellowish/white and brown/black in winter to lush green and brown black in summer, along with all shades of grey with rock? Or, the greens and browns of better grasslands? Or do you mean camo for forestry? I live in the former, but I have a limited budget so I picked a pattern which I believed would suit my needs best for my situation.

Secondly, I'm not arguing that I'm not breaking any laws, I'm stating fact

Thirdly, I still don't give a damn about busybodies, if I did I'd never sleep a wink not just because of hunting/shooting but because that breed makes it their business to be stuck in everyone elses business regardless of what you do or don't do.

Finally, MY realtree suits MY needs in MY opinion. I promise not to force you to wear it

Now I'm gonna bow out of this thread as I'm sorry I ever mentioned it :rolleyes:

John

Hezz700

Fair play to ya, John! nicely put.

Vegeta

I definitely agree with Dvs on the changing countryside, over the last decade we have lost so much good shooting land that it saddens me.

With regards camo there are two different types disruptive camouflage or blending camouflage.

Disruptive camouflage produces its effect by breaking up and thereby concealing the structural lines of the object which it hides. An exact match with the environment's colors is much less important than the patterning of the regions of color themselves. Disruptive patterns are designed to counter in-built perceptual models

Blending camouflage is a more obvious approach. The camouflaged object is shielded by matching one or more of the following - the color, texture, shape, or pattern of other objects in the environment Ghille suits are a perfect example, no one wearing one has a human outline and is made up of surrounding shrub and fauna.

even though real tree camo does not have the colours spot on it is still fairly disruptive, this is why orange real tree camo still works for deer. People may say deer are colour blind as are a lot of animals well then colour shouldn't matter a bit then should it.

I get annoyed when people say camo has negative image attached to it. Of course it does if people keep that attitude going. As i said in a previous post what are people afraid of being confused with a soldier, a game keeper, a hunter or a member of a certain Irish Republican Army. If it is the last we'd hardly be out with a dog, sitting in a hide and shooting birds, vermin and deer if we were in the fore mentioned militia group.

Whenever i meet anyone out shooting I take off my veil (if wearing it, usually only on hte shore for duck) so they can see my face and give them a big salute.

Keelan

johngalway wrote:

Firstly, which Irish terrain? The mountain and boglands which turn from light yellowish/white and brown/black in winter to lush green and brown black in summer, along with all shades of grey with rock? Or, the greens and browns of better grasslands? Or do you mean camo for forestry? I live in the former, but I have a limited budget so I picked a pattern which I believed would suit my needs best for my situation.

Secondly, I'm not arguing that I'm not breaking any laws, I'm stating fact

Thirdly, I still don't give a damn about busybodies, if I did I'd never sleep a wink not just because of hunting/shooting but because that breed makes it their business to be stuck in everyone elses business regardless of what you do or don't do.

Finally, MY realtree suits MY needs in MY opinion. I promise not to force you to wear it

Now I'm gonna bow out of this thread as I'm sorry I ever mentioned it :rolleyes:

John

Well said.;)

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

Ok All
I may not be able to answer anyones opinions on camo with such eloquence
as some and answer CRAP to them...

My opinions about washing powder effects on camo are based on,
research by the Military and various makers of camo clothing with millions of dollars to spend on the testing........

But I suppose saying its CRAP is a reasonable argument.:rolleyes:


However, my opinions on the use of camo have been somewhat distorted,
My original comment was about the fact that the realtree or other patterns designed for other terrain do not blend in with Irish terrain.

I stated that browns and greens were more appropriate,
this was interpreted by some as plain green or plain brown, these will suffice in some instances.

But this was not what I meant, browns and greens used in camo clothing as opposed to light browns greys and yellows used in some patterns that are designed for other terrains are far more effective and do not make you stand out, or draw attention, of people whom would not notice you otherwise,
but for your realtree, desert or urban camo.

You can argue that you are not breaking any laws,
you have permission to be where you are shooting,
let the busy bodys mind their own business!

well, they would not be busy bodys if they did that would they....

How many of you can't shoot in places that you used to?
not because the farmer did not give you permission but because houses have been built around the land,
that you used to shoot on and not meet a soul.

how many of you involved in clay bird shooting, that have shot in the same location for years,have heard complaints about noise from shooting,
because new houses have been built nearby?


How many of you have been asked,
why you shoot those lovely wild pheasants,
that would not be there in most places,
but for local gunclubs buying and stocking them.

Or why would you want to kill a poor defenseless animal, it's so cruel!

The countryside in Ireland is changing and not for the better,
People moving to the country to embrace country living, a better way of life!

And then when the get there, complain about everything,
object to countryside shooting/hunting sports,
and want to sanitise the countryside.

"what is that terrible smell?"

That, would be cow ****e Mrs.

Rant over....
YMMV

Dvs.

I will say it once more and go, i have been shooting for 24 years and have used cammo 90% of the time, never had a problem with animals seeing me after washing and never had a problem with folks seeing me in it ither.
Know your animals and know your humans, this has worked for me and still does.
Keelan.

Dvs

Keelan wrote:

I will say it once more and go, i have been shooting for 24 years and have used cammo 90% of the time, never had a problem with animals seeing me after washing and never had a problem with folks seeing me in it ither.
Know your animals and know your humans, this has worked for me and still does.
Keelan.

Well you can say it as many times as you like, stay or go as you like it still does not change the facts, I have been been shooting for over 25 years also and have worn camo and worn jeans and a T-shirt and never had problems with animals seeing me!

Why is this?

Because we live in a very small and ever increasingly populated country,
animals here, see humans all the time even the extra nervous animals here are exposed to humans all the time and most of the humans they see don't shoot at them,hopefully those that do only shoot once.

If they got spooked at every sighting or scent of humans, they would never stop running, then seeing or scenting another human turn and run again, non stop.

so mostly if they get suprised, they make a little run,
then stop to see what they ran from,
because they know it probably just one of those bloody humans again!

However, in other parts of the world where human contact is less and the animals senses are not so dulled,a human scent is out of place,
and alerts them to danger, they also take notice of the glowing camo issue,
because they don't see a broken camo pattern, they see the glow which is out of place, and it makes the difference between getting an opportunity to take a shot or not!

So if may not be a factor in your shooting exploits,
but that does not change the facts.

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

Well you can say it as many times as you like, stay or go as you like it still does not change the facts, I have been been shooting for over 25 years also and have worn camo and worn jeans and a T-shirt and never had problems with animals seeing me!

Why is this?

Because we live in a very small and ever increasingly populated country,
animals here, see humans all the time even the extra nervous animals here are exposed to humans all the time and most of the humans they see don't shoot at them,hopefully those that do only shoot once.

If they got spooked at every sighting or scent of humans, they would never stop running, then seeing or scenting another human turn and run again, non stop.

so mostly if they get suprised, they make a little run,
then stop to see what they ran from,
because they know it probably just one of those bloody humans again!

However, in other parts of the world where human contact is less and the animals senses are not so dulled,a human scent is out of place,
and alerts them to danger, they also take notice of the glowing camo issue,
because they don't see a broken camo pattern, they see the glow which is out of place, and it makes the difference between getting an opportunity to take a shot or not!

So if may not be a factor in your shooting exploits,
but that does not change the facts.

Dvs.

I am not arguing with the washing powder point as i don't know enough about the topic.

Well Ireland had about 6.6-8 million people around the time of the famine so actually we are only gettin back close to our population of 160 years ago.

How many wild duck/geese pay visits to towns, 10% maybe 20%, Crows are one of the smartest birds out there and in places have learned to use tools and have decent language skills if tutored properly. Also how many country foxes/deer have daily meetings with people, considering they are up very late and get up very early i'd say not a lot of them to be honest.

So while you may harp on about facts Dvs unless you are shooting in Phoenix Park I think they are a little distorted.

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

Also how many country foxes/deer have daily meetings with people, considering they are up very late and get up very early i'd say not a lot of them to be honest.

So while you may harp on about facts Dvs unless you are shooting in Phoenix Park I think they are a little distorted.

I did not say,
country foxes and deer are having daily meetings with people,
people are all around them scent, noise, cars, houses.

They don't have to meet them face to face to become familiar with humans,
They are not living in a high state of alertness because people are all around.

The deer in the phoenix park are just an extreme illustration of this fact.

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

Because we live in a very small and ever increasingly populated country,
animals here, see humans all the time even the extra nervous animals here are exposed to humans all the time and most of the humans they see don't shoot at them,hopefully those that do only shoot once.
Dvs.

Again Ireland had a bigger population 160 years ago according to the census of 1841 and was probably even a more rural country back then.

If anything i'd say there are less people living in the countryside in modern Ireland as there is a general trend for families to move to towns because of schools and work. That is not to say houses are not being built in the country.

I ask you how often do deer/fox/duck/geese/snipe/grouse stop to take a look at you when hunting. It hasn't happened to me once in a decade of shooting.

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

Again Ireland had a bigger population 160 years ago according to the census of 1841 and was probably even a more rural country back then.

If anything i'd say there are less people living in the countryside in modern Ireland as there is a general trend for families to move to towns because of schools and work. That is not to say houses are not being built in the country.

I ask you how often do deer/fox/duck/geese/snipe/grouse stop to take a look at you when hunting. It hasn't happened to me once in a decade of shooting.

I don't know why,
but i'm going to attempt to say this once more,
and after that it's up to you.

I am not talking about population in Ireland of the 1800s,
or the fact that the population of Ireland is approaching 5 million.

My point is a deer or fox in Ireland today, will see human activity directly or indirectly all the time.

A deer or fox living in the wilds of Alaska or Northern Canada will not!

I find it hard to believe that you have not experienced, a fox or deer making a short bolt and then stopping to have a look !

I have not seen Ducks,Geese,Snipe or Grouse do it.
if they tried they would fly in circles.:D

But I have seen a lot of them making short flights because they are used to disturbance and setting down to give you another chance to rise them.

Dvs.

Keelan

Deer, ect act in exactly the same way in alaska, Affrica, Canada, UK, Scotland, timbuck 2, ect ect.:rolleyes:
Ive hunted in most.;)
Nuff said.
Keelan.

Dvs

Keelan wrote:

Deer, ect act in exactly the same way in alaska, Affrica, Canada, UK, Scotland, timbuck 2, ect ect.:rolleyes:
Ive hunted in most.;)
Nuff said.
Keelan.

Well there you have it,
the Expert speaks................:rolleyes:



Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

Well there you have it,
the Expert speaks................:rolleyes:



Dvs.

well he sounds like he has more experience than you and thats enough for me.

And I will say it again, i don't know where you hunt but where i hunt neither foxes or deer would have contact with human life "all the time" They may see a farmers house 2 or 3 miles away but thats it, whichare all dotted along the road side. They are not the most social animals with the hours they keep. They may hear a tractor every now and then and the odd car, but they cannot identify humans on sight. They definitely see me as a threat anyway otherwise i might have shot way more deer and foxes.

Oh deer have stopped to look back when i have made a sh1te effort at stalking them, they spot me at about 600 yards look at me for about 10 secs and then they are gone. Real friendly whores they are. Sher they know me by name at this stage

If camo doesn't work why do Militaries develop things like MARPAT and CADPAT.

EDIT: The reason I mention population Dvs is that Ireland was a more populated country years ago, and a more rural one. So by your logic animals in the 1820-60 would have been even more aware of humans as there were more people in the country side. Which would give us even more of a reason to wear camo incase animals in the wild (who have relatively short life spans anyway) gave human spotting lessons which last to current generation.

coyote6

Speaking of MARPAT etc. Check out the U.S. Army's new ACU. It's designed as an all terrain camo. I've seen it close up and it works well.

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

well he sounds like he has more experience than you and thats enough for me.

So if he said he was Pamela Anderson,
You would value his opinions on breast enhancement:rolleyes:

Vegeta wrote:

If camo doesn't work why do Militaries develop things like MARPAT and CADPAT.

EDIT: The reason I mention population Dvs is that Ireland was a more populated country years ago, and a more rural one. So by your logic animals in the 1820-60 would have been even more aware of humans as there were more people in the country side. Which would give us even more of a reason to wear camo incase animals in the wild (who have relatively short life spans anyway) gave human spotting lessons which last to current generation.

Re read my posts!
I never said camo did not work!
I asked the OP if he had a photo of himself,
dressed in the realtree camo he posted photos of.

I said, it was more appropriate to wear camo that blends with your terrain than to wear a pattern that does not and makes you visible to busy bodys.

I mentioned also the issue of modern washing powders making camo glow
from the point of view of animals vision and that the makers of camo and the military had invested a great deal of money in that research,
whether its an issue to you in your hunting or not,
does not discount that.

Because it is a proven fact that the camo makers and military have worked on,
Why ?
because personnel that are more visible on imaging devices,
are easier to kill.



All my years, working with the Delta and Seal teams gives me the authority to speak on these issues......
Nuff said;)









The last bit is total S***e,
but some people believe anything that you post on the internet.......
Nuff said;)

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

So if he said he was Pamela Anderson,
You would value his opinions on breast enhancement:rolleyes:





Re read my posts!
I never said camo did not work!
I asked the OP if he had a photo of himself,
dressed in the realtree camo he posted photos of.

I said, it was more appropriate to wear camo that blends with your terrain than to wear a pattern that does not and makes you visible to busy bodys.

I mentioned also the issue of modern washing powders making camo glow
from the point of view of animals vision and that the makers of camo and the military had invested a great deal of money in that research,
whether its an issue to you in your hunting or not,
does not discount that.

Because it is a proven fact that the camo makers and military have worked on,
Why ?
because personnel that are more visible on imaging devices,
are easier to kill.



All my years, working with the Delta and Seal teams gives me the authority to speak on these issues......
Nuff said;)









The last bit is total S***e,
but some people believe anything that you post on the internet.......
Nuff said;)

Dvs.

read my post from above, the colour/blending is not essential. The type of camo most commonly used in hunting is disruptive, cover the parts of the body that would stick out to a wild animal, like a face or hands.

Disruptive camouflage produces its effect by breaking up and thereby concealing the structural lines of the object which it hides. An exact match with the environment's colors is much less important than the patterning of the regions of color themselves. Disruptive patterns are designed to counter in-built perceptual models

The extreme use of camo is blending camo.

Blending camouflage is a more obvious approach. The camouflaged object is shielded by matching one or more of the following - the color, texture, shape, or pattern of other objects in the environment Ghille suits are a perfect example, no one wearing one has a human outline and is made up of surrounding shrub and fauna.

To be honest you haven't really argued your case with any concrete points. Dvs you have something against camo or seem to think the average Joe Soap will see a guy wearing camo and this brings a negative image to hunting.

Would you like to explain how wearing camo can hurt the sport? I don't want a "its not effective anyway" answer because at your own admission camo does work. I have stated on more than one occasion that it doesn't matter what colour the camoflage is, so again i ask you the question

Would you like to explain how wearing camo can hurt the sport or creative a negative image about hunting?

EDIT: I never said a thing about washing powder and camo, I declined to comment on it, see post number 29

mcguiver

Whatever works for ya!!!

Personally I was taught to stalk wearing regular clothes, (and initially without carrying a gun) it's a skill that you learn with practice and a little help from our elders. I know a guy who can get animals to walk right over to him.

Remember there are no straight lines in nature, so shape, sound, movement and scent are whats important to animals.

I can speak highy of the realtree camo, I was on a course years ago when a shooting writer arrived with a sample set for testing and the pattern blends in well in Ireland/UK.

also REMEMBER SAFETY !!!!! be aware of other shooters, don't be too well hidden!!

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

To be honest you haven't really argued your case with any concrete points. Dvs you have something against camo or seem to think the average Joe Soap will see a guy wearing camo and this brings a negative image to hunting.

Would you like to explain how wearing camo can hurt the sport? I don't want a "its not effective anyway" answer because at your own admission camo does work. I have stated on more than one occasion that it doesn't matter what colour the camoflage is, so again i ask you the question

Would you like to explain how wearing camo can hurt the sport or creative a negative image about hunting?

I will make the same points that I did in previous posts,
but I would ask you to read what I am writing,
and not argue points of your own making.

The colour of camo does not matter to animals,
as they see differently to us and so the colour is not an issue.

If the colour and pattern blends in with the local terrain,
then you will not draw unwanted attention to yourself or your shooting activities.

wearing camo of itself, will not hurt the sport or
creative a negative image about hunting.

However, wearing a camo pattern and colour,
Blaze orange advantage realtree,
urban camo or desert storm BDUs,
these are extreme examples,
but even less extreme, inappropriate colours,
will make you stand out like a sore thumb.

The acid test is,
if somebody can look into a field inadvertently,
while you are standing still, and think,
there is a person in camoflage clothing!

If your choice of camoflage clothing makes you stand out,

To people !
whom have no interest in hunting,
or worse still have very strong negative views on hunting.


So these same people can, look into a field while driving along,
or while standing in their back garden,
looking into the valley behind their half acre site,
and say look there is a man or men in camoflage clothing,
and my god they have guns!!!
we might all be killed if they shoot those dangerous guns!

so they think,
maybe we should call the Garda, because we could be in danger!

No, lets call the farmer that we bought the site from.....


short time later the secretary of the local gun club,
that have shot over the land for years, gets a call from the farmer.

Listen, were some of your lads out shooting today,
on my land over the valley,
you know, where I sold the sites along the road?

Yes, I was out myself, we got a couple of foxes and shot six mags and two greys........

Right, well i'm sorry and all,

but, I'm hoping to sell a few more sites along the road,
and these newcomers are a funny lot,
they don't hold with shooting and the like,
so i'm going to have to take the land out of the gun club,
and put up no shooting signs.

You'll let the rest of the lads know.

Like I said, I'm sorry but i'd be a lifetime farming it,
and still not make the money I can get for the sites...............

Vegeta wrote:

EDIT: I never said a thing about washing powder and camo, I declined to comment on it, see post number 29

I never said you did.
I was attempting to clarify exactly what I said,
not what other people posting in this thread concluded.
And said was Crap.


Dvs.

Vegeta

So your main arguement is that if a person looks into a field and sees someone in ill-suited camo carrying a rifle or shotgun that they may get spooked.

So why does it have to be bad camo that will spook the on-lookers, they'd be way easier to pick out if they wore a t-shirt and a pair of jeans. I'm sure a jacket of all brown or all green would help you blend better to the human eye and therefore avoid the attention of the busy bodies. If people are anti-hunting i really don't think it matters what clothing you wear.

People will spot you in fields if you wear anything but very very good camo. You seem to have no problem with wearing traditional style clothing, i.e a shooting vest etc.

So i have to ask why do you differentiate between normal clothing while shooting and a bad camo pattern?

Clare gunner

[

People will spot you in fields if you wear anything but very very good camo. You seem to have no problem with wearing traditional style clothing, i.e a shooting vest etc.

Err not strictly true either.People LOOK these days they rarely SEE.This applies to both town and country types.I have been personally able to walk up and evade country people in the course of my work wearing nothing more elaborate than green cargo pants and an old US woodland cammo parka.
And townies who move to the country are such easy prey:D
What attracts humans to spotting you is movement and an extreme odd color in their country enviroment.Put it like this,you would stand out wearing a ghillie suit in an urban enviroment,as much as you would wearing day glo orange in the middle of a cow pasture.Unless of course you cammoed your ghillie suit to look like a heap of urban street rubbish[been done in Chechyna and Bosnia by urban snipers] Or added a gun to your day glow orange vest and became a hunter,power linseman,etc etc.
Cammo is about perception as to what your quarry sees you as.EG if I had to stalk somone in a rural scene,I would try to dress as somthing that fits into a rural area,boiler suit day glo vest,hard hat.All very grubby,people think in a rural sitution you are somthing employed outside.However try that garb wood piegon shooting and a very quiet day will ensue.Wood piegons have incredible eyesight and will spot a white face or hand at 300 meters easily.Hence a ghillie suit is required.
My take on it is this; humans unless you are going up against a pro,somthing that blends into their enviroment,and slow movement using the terrain doesnt alarm them.
Animals ; shine,sound,and smell will give you away alot quicker thyan shape

coyote6

Claregunner is right on. When I was trained in fieldcraft they said the reason you aren't seen if you move slow enough is that the human eye won't pick up movement under 60 frames per second. One of my urban hide camoflage items is a square cardboard box painted silver that can be placed on a roof top etc. to appear like an a/c or whatever. I am intrigued by the new US ACU's due to their chameleon like qualities. I'm trying to lobby my team to switch. We now wear straight olive drab bdu's which are o.k. but not as applicable to urban terrain. Mainly they're just cheap bastards who don't want to take away from their beer money!

Vegeta

lads i agree with what you are saying, my dispute is with Dvs.

if i wear a tshirt and cargo pants and walk through a field at a decent pace and I wear an ill-suited camo pattern (mossy oak on the shore for example) and walk through the same field at a decent pace. What's the difference?

Why should a busy body take offence to one outfit and not the other.

Dvs is right in saying bad camo will make you stand out to humans but so will bad clothin in general, such as a bright t-shirt and tracksuit pants. So I am asking why pick on camo???

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

lads i agree with what you are saying, my dispute is with Dvs.

if i wear a tshirt and cargo pants and walk through a field at a decent pace and I wear an ill-suited camo pattern (mossy oak on the shore for example) and walk through the same field at a decent pace. What's the difference?

Why should a busy body take offence to one outfit and not the other.

If you wear a tshirt and cargo pants,
you look like someone walking through the field,
if you have a dog you look like farmer,
walking across the fiels carrying a stick
or other man walking his dog,
also carrying a stick enjoying the countryside.

If you wear ill-suited camo that makes you visible to busy bodys,
you look like, a media hyped Rambo wannabe with an assault rifle,
or a bambie killing bastard, carrying a big gun.
depending on their pet hates.

I would go as far as to say even if you were carrying a stick,
they would still think gun.

Vegeta wrote:

Dvs is right in saying bad camo will make you stand out to humans but so will bad clothin in general, such as a bright t-shirt and tracksuit pants.

yes, but they will think tasteless prat or Skanger,
and take no real notice.

I bet Claregunner can vouch for this in his line of work,
the best camo for fooling people is a hi-vis jacket,
most people assume, you must conceal yourself not to be noticed,
this is far from the truth.

In plain sight dressed in clothing appropriate to the location,
is the best camo for fooling people.

if you look like you belong,
people are more than happy to assume you do.

Vegeta wrote:

Dvs is right in saying bad camo will make you stand out to humans but so will bad clothin in general, such as a bright t-shirt and tracksuit pants. So I am asking why pick on camo???

Vegeta you seem to understand my point,
but continue to argue that I am picking on camo as a point of contention regardless of my stating otherwise.

I use camo when and where appropriate,
I try to use what will blend in and not make me stand out to animals or people.

For example, if I were using a full camo suit, a face mask and gloves,
I would not put on the face mask and gloves until I had left the area immediately visible from the road.

I make sure the interior light in my car is turned off,
so if I have been shooting up until dark,
when I get to the car and open the door,
I am not iluminated for all road users to see,
they see a car, they might see me,
but the don't get to see me,
dressed in camo carrying a gun easily.

why bother you might ask your not breaking any laws?

My business is just that,


My business


Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

If you wear a tshirt and cargo pants,
you look like someone walking through the field,

A person with a gun walking through the field

If you wear ill-suited camo that makes you visible to busy bodys,
you look like, a media hyped Rambo wannabe with an assault rifle,
or a bambie killing bastard, carrying a big gun.
depending on their pet hates.

This is exactly what annoys me, a plain clothed person in a field with a gun is a man walking his dog or a hill walker and a guy in camo with a gun is Rambo.

I think the public are more intelligent than that and the average person would make the logical progression that hunters wear camoflage. If someone is anti-shooting/hunting it doen't matter what gear you wear, they will always be against you.

Trying to hide your camo use only reinforces the already negative stigma that some people in this country has associated with with it. Thank you IRA and media. So i for one think the more open i am with it and the more the public see responsible hunters wearing it the better.

I also don't think people should stop wearing camo to save the feelings of a few busy bodies, you do. If they ring the gardai you're not breaking any law and chances are you know the farmer better than they do, after all he gave you permission to shoot there in the first place. If the farmer kicks you off his land for wearing camo he isn't the nicest guy anyway

I use camo when and where appropriate,
I try to use what will blend in and not make me stand out to animals or people.

My problem here is you singled out another member of this forum and said his camo would be ineffective to animals. Yes maybe if he washed it in modern washing powder but it is used as disruptive camo anyway, which is effective against animals regardless of colour. hence why orange day glo realtree works for hunting deer in certain states where they have to stand out for other shooters/trekkers/hill walkers.

coyote6

Sometimes the best camo is a jumpsuit, hardhat and a clip-board. If you act like you know what yere doin' no one pays attention to 'ya.

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

My problem here is you singled out another member of this forum and said his camo would be ineffective to animals. Yes maybe if he washed it in modern washing powder but it is used as disruptive camo anyway, which is effective against animals regardless of colour. hence why orange day glo realtree works for hunting deer in certain states where they have to stand out for other shooters/trekkers/hill walkers.

No,
This is exactly what i said:

Dvs wrote:

Hello Johngalway,
I would be interested to see a photo of you dressed in that advantage timber camo with your gun sock.

Because I am curious as to how much it camoflages you,
as its not very Irish countryside looking....

Dvs.

You drew your own meaning, and continue to argue
over something I never said.

Vegeta wrote:

This is exactly what annoys me, a plain clothed person in a field with a gun is a man walking his dog or a hill walker and a guy in camo with a gun is Rambo.

I think the public are more intelligent than that and the average person would make the logical progression that hunters wear camoflage. If someone is anti-shooting/hunting it doen't matter what gear you wear, they will always be against you.

I think you give people, to much credit for intelligence,
If people don't have a direct interest in a subject and have given it thought, then by and large, their position on it is, what they have heard,
good bad or indifferent.

And most people get their opinions from the media,
if the person on the telly says it and a few more people that watched the programe say it to others, before long you will have an uphill struggle to change public perceptions even with concrete evidence,
showing what they have been led to believe is completely wrong!

Vegeta wrote:

I also don't think people should stop wearing camo to save the feelings of a few busy bodies, you do.

Once again you are drawing your own conclusions,
on what you assume I mean,
not what i said!

The feelings of busy bodys,
or anti blood sports people,
do not interest me in the slightest.

Not wanting to advertise my hunting activities,
is in my own interest not theirs!

Vegeta wrote:

chances are you know the farmer better than they do, after all he gave you permission to shoot there in the first place. If the farmer kicks you off his land for wearing camo he isn't the nicest guy anyway

I never said a farmer would kick you off his land for wearing camo,
But to protect his chances,
to sell more roadside sites which could make him millions.

when his other option is,
to continue to have you shoot his land,
and get exactly Sweet F**k All.

I personally never require a farmer to be a nice guy!
I fact some of the farmers whos land I have permission to shoot over,
are downright ignorant!

But fair play to them,
they do give me permission,
and for that I am grateful.

If you wish to dispute something that I have actually said,
then fair enough,
If not, then there's not much more I can say on the matter.

Dvs.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

My reason for asking is that, by not blending in and sticking out like a sore thumb in realtree camo as an alternative to plain greens and browns, it may draw unwanted and unnecessary attention on you and your hunting activities.

YMMV.

Dvs.

well you refer to busy bodies quite a bit so I was wondering if you suddenly don't care about them then why did you bring it up?

Who exactly will the unwanted and unnecessary attention come from.

Do i have to go through the 3 pages and post every quote where you say that people will look into a field see you hunting in bad camo and ring the farmer yada yada yada

Your arguement is so rediculous its not even fuuny, I think most people who see hunters in a field would ring the person who sold them the site because of the presence of guns and the discharging of guns near their new homes. Not because of what they're wearing. Would they send out the fashion police

You can esily turn around and say but i never said that, not in exact words no, but you have been implying it for 3 pages. Just like in the post quoted above. The OP showed camo and you said this camo would bring unwanted and necessary attention.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

No,
This is exactly what i said:

You drew your own meaning, and continue to argue
over something I never said.

Well in your post you said the OP would stand out like a sore thumb which implies you believe the camo to be ineffective. I have pointed out several times that it doesn't matter what colour it is. His camo would be effective. You made such a sweeping generalisation anyway by saying it doesn't look like the Irish countryside. The Irish countryside is such a changing landscape, you just jumped on in there with the camo criticism. Are you now changing your mind and saying his camo would be effective?

Once again you are drawing your own conclusions,
on what you assume I mean,
not what i said!

The feelings of busy bodys,
or anti blood sports people,
do not interest me in the slightest.

Again if the busy bodies don't interest you why did you bring it up. You're the one saying people who see hunters in a field wearing camo will ring the farmer. Of course you have no problem if a character looking like a 'Skanger" (your words) carrying a gun walking through the fields. Come off it will you. "Skangers", "Chavs" etc have the worst public image in the country for violence and gangland behaviour.

I never said a farmer would kick you off his land for wearing camo,
But to protect his chances,
to sell more roadside sites which could make him millions.

No but you said the natives will ring the farmer if they spot someone wearing camo near their site, and then he'll kick you off the land.

If you wish to dispute something that I have actually said,
then fair enough,
If not, then there's not much more I can say on the matter.

Dvs I have quoted you in nearly every post you have made, if this isn't talking about something you said i don't know what is. See above

Dvs

Vegeta,
I will leave it up to anyone else reading this thread,
to make up their own minds on what I have or have not said.

If you are happy to wear what ever camoflage you do,
Good for you that is your choice to make.


You either cannot, or do not, wish to grasp the point,
that if your choice of camoflage draws unwanted attention,
to your hunting activities from,
people
then it is not as effective as it could and in my opinion should be.

I have no interest in continuing this thread on the matter,
we shall just have to agree to differ.

Dvs.