Help me pick a car

zag

I have €12,000 to spend.

I travel from Carlow-Dublin Dublin-Carlow every day, and generally clock up alot of milage, so looking for an economical car.

Full licence, clean, 2 years no claims.

What car should I look at buying, and should I go private, or dealer?

wingnut

You would need to give more details, what size car etc. For that money I would be looking at maybe a 2.0TDCI Mondeo (new Shape c. 2001) or maybe a BMW 318(TD), 320 or 525 (late nineties c. 98/99). I currently drive a petrol but the way fuel costs are going I will definatly go for a diesel next time out. I am driving a Mondeo becuase after trying numerous cars, for me the comfort and handling of the Fords and BMWs beat the others. I used to consider Volkswagons but after driving a few different models I would never buy one.

As for buying with that kind of money I would go to a dealers. You will pay a bit more but your ass will be covered. Dealers must give a minimum of 3 months parts and labour but most (esp. main dealers) will give 6 - 12 months. You may save a thousand buying private but could end up pouring losts of money to get it right, even a fairly new car. If you are buying private you might look at getting the AA to check the car out. It costs a couple of hundred but they give a guarantee on the car after AFAIK. Be careful dealing with mobiles only and meet at the side of the road. A friend of mine paid big money for a Golf TDRedEye only to have the cops take it off her a week later. It had come down from the North, passed customs etc. but she still got stung.

The Hill Billy

For that kind of mileage I'd go diesel.
I'd recommend a Skoda Octavia 1.8 TDi.
You certainly should be able to pick one up in good shape for your money.
Personally, I'd prefer going with a dealer.

Big Nelly

How about a 00 Audi A3, lovely car to drive and very easy on juice. Only a 1.6 engine and has been newly serviced and new timing belt????

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054890290&highlight=audi+a3

Thats only going for 10k but getting no calls? everyone else seems to be more so I cant see why its not selling seeing as it has all the extras that most of the other A3's out there dont have, sun roof etc

zag

Big Nelly wrote:

How about a 00 Audi A3

I won't be buying for about 6 weeks, waiting to sign contracts on house before I will have the money. It's not a bad price, but I think I will go for a diesel. I have a 1.5 at the moment, and it's using €80-90 per week on juice. I'd be looking for something smaller in a petrol, or a diesel.

zag

wingnut wrote:

You would need to give more details, what size car etc.

Well, I don't want to be too specific, I'd like to see if people come from a different perspective than me. I've been thinking along the lines of an Octavia, Bora, Golf, Corrola, S40, Vectra, Mondeo etc. I would like something comfortable also. Just to throw a spanner in the works, what is a Rover 75 like?

Big Nelly

zag wrote:

I won't be buying for about 6 weeks, waiting to sign contracts on house before I will have the money. It's not a bad price, but I think I will go for a diesel. I have a 1.5 at the moment, and it's using €80-90 per week on juice. I'd be looking for something smaller in a petrol, or a diesel.

Well if going for Diesel you cant go far wrong with a Passat, I had a 00 Passat 1.9Tdi 90Bhp last year, kept it for a year and sold it on and only cost me 500 quid for the year after putting on 20k on it. Exchanged it for a 02 130Bhp Highline Passat, this is an animal of a car, so fast, heated seats, cruise control etc on it because it is a UK import. Lovely car and great to drive. You will find the 90Bhp wanting after a while but I suppose if you have a1.5 already the jump to 1.9Tdi will blow you away!!

gyppo

For the money you are talking about, you should get a very nice SEAT Toledo 1.9 TDi SE.
Very comfortable, all the toys, 110hp, and you will get between 55-60mpg easily on your commute. VW engineering, without the costs of a VW.

Octavia is also a worthy contender, but Toledo would be my choice.

Mc-BigE

zag wrote:

Well, I don't want to be too specific, I'd like to see if people come from a different perspective than me. I've been thinking along the lines of an Octavia, Bora, Golf, Corrola, S40, Vectra, Mondeo etc. I would like something comfortable also. Just to throw a spanner in the works, what is a Rover 75 like?

The Rover 75 diesel is a de-tuned version of the BMW 320d engine, which is a very good engine, I would be concerned about re-sale value on a 75 but if you buy one cheap in the first place you can't complain.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&MakeID=25&xMakeID=25&ColourID=&xColourID=&ModelID=223&xModelID=223&Doors=&BodyID=&Engine_Min=&Year_Min=&Engine_Max=&Year_Max=&Price_Min=&Price_Min_integer=Minimum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&CountyID=&xCountyID=&Price_Max=&Price_Max_integer=Maximum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&BusinessID=&xBusinessID=&IsPrivateSale=&FuelID=2&SortBy=MakeAsc&MaxRows=100&InsertPeriod=&ResultFormat=&submit=Find+%3E%3E

If you have to sell your existing car, try selling it privately first but it will take a long time to sale in the current SSIA new car frenzy! So maybe trade-in might be your only option.

For your mileage definitely diesel.
Your car options.

Octavia,yes good car (it’s basically a passat/bora/golf without the VW badge)
Bora, yes, there not as popular as the Golf/passat so the 2nd hand price should reflect this.

Corolla, yes in diesel but might be not as comfortable on long journeys as the bigger passat/octavia
Volvo S40, yes in diesel again, should pick one up cheap
Vectra, Mondeo same as S40.

Big Nelly

gyppo wrote:

For the money you are talking about, you should get a very nice SEAT Toledo 1.9 TDi SE.
Very comfortable, all the toys, 110hp, and you will get between 55-60mpg easily on your commute. VW engineering, without the costs of a VW.

Octavia is also a worthy contender, but Toledo would be my choice.

As mentioned in Top gear in last episode, the Octavia is a cheap mans Passat, Seat are the same. Dont get as good an engine and the extras are not included. Maybe its just me but I wouldnt drive a car with a Skoda badge.

Mc-BigE

Big Nelly wrote:

As mentioned in Top gear in last episode, the Octavia is a cheap mans Passat, Seat are the same. Dont get as good an engine and the extras are not included. Maybe its just me but I wouldnt drive a car with a Skoda badge.

your right .... it's just you:D

gyppo

As mentioned in Top gear in last episode, the Octavia is a cheap mans Passat, Seat are the same. Dont get as good an engine and the extras are not included. Maybe its just me but I wouldnt drive a car with a Skoda badge.

Funny, I thought there was a VW TDI engine under the bonnet of my Leon the last time I looked.

Also, the SEAT, as well as being a better drivers car, only has
4 E/W
Heated electric retracting windows,
Climate control,
Cruise control,
fuel computer,
Traction control,
etc..,
etc..
as standard.
I'm sure you would'nt have to pay anything for these in a VW.!;)

You're right, it is you.:D

Mc-BigE

J.Clarkson thinks that we all should be driving v8 petrol cars that drink petrol and cost a price of a 3 bed semi to own and run!
I’m sorry but he doesn't live in the real world!
Any 1.9/2.0 tdi diesel VW group car (including your passat) is a good car in my view ,so is the bmw 2 litre thats also in the rover 75.
If I was the OP, id buy any of the above, but for 12k you won’t get the e46 bmw320d or a good low mileage B5 passat. So looks like a smaller diesel car, or
A larger octiava/seat. And if you find a comfort model you'll should have all the extras that a passat will have in my opinion.

Big Nelly

gyppo wrote:

Also, the SEAT, as well as being a better drivers car, only has
4 E/W
Heated electric retracting windows,
Climate control,
Cruise control,
fuel computer,
Traction control,
etc..,
etc..
as standard.

Yes I have all of that, did you buy new or second hand? if so you prob didnt pay much for it because it aint worth much. No its not a VW engine, it is more or less the same with cheaper parts hence why its cheaper and doesnt hold it value as well. I lost 500 quid on my last passat in a year while puttin 20k on the clock. How much would you lose on your beloved Seat?

Again its a cheap mans Passat, ring TopGear if you have a problem with that statement. It wasnt me that said it

gyppo

Well Nelly,

If you want to spend 2/3k more on what I consider to be essentially the same car (mechanically), for the badge, fair play to you.

I bought mine because it was a lot cheaper than an equivalent VW. By the time I'm finished wit it, and its six/seven years old with 150k miles on it, I doubt that the difference between it and an equivalent VW will be negligible.

Mc-BigE

Big Nelly wrote:

No its not a VW engine, it is more or less the same with cheaper parts hence why its cheaper and doesnt hold it value as well.

This is not the first time you've said this! please back up your statements with a link to a website or something were it says that parts made for the other VW group makes are cheaper than the ones made for VW themselves.
next time you go into a VW dealer for parts have a look whats stamped on the side of that box.

Big Nelly

gyppo wrote:

Well Nelly,

If you want to spend 2/3k more on what I consider to be essentially the same car (mechanically), for the badge, fair play to you.

I bought mine because it was a lot cheaper than an equivalent VW. By the time I'm finished wit it, and its six/seven years old with 150k miles on it, I doubt that the difference between it and an equivalent VW will be negligible.

I dont mind spending an extra 2/3k for a nice car, I have test drove the Seats and they aint a patch on a Passat in my opinion. I am on the road so usually spend alot of time in a car depending on where I have to go so I dont mind paying for the comfort, also I change my car most years so I find the comfort of having a car that holds it value great

yellow012

Big Nelly wrote:

No its not a VW engine, it is more or less the same with cheaper parts hence why its cheaper and doesnt hold it value as well. t

Jeez Big Nelly your embarrassing yourself with your ignorance now.. The world and his dog know the PD tdi engines used by the VAG group (AUDI, Volks, Seat, Octavia) are all the same. If you don't believe me then go into your local VW garage and have a look in their parts dept and you'll see that all the boxes have volkswagen/seat/octavia labelled all over them.
Seriously man you need to get over that badge snobbery thing thats going on inside your head.

yellow012

Mc-BigE wrote:

This is not the first time you've said this! please back up your statements with a link to a website or something were it says that parts made for the other VW group makes are cheaper than the ones made for VW themselves.
next time you go into a VW dealer for parts have a look whats stamped on the side of that box.

Snap:) Got there before me..

Big Nelly

Mc-BigE wrote:

This is not the first time you've said this! please back up your statements with a link to a website or something were it says that parts made for the other VW group makes are cheaper than the ones made for VW themselves.
next time you go into a VW dealer for parts have a look whats stamped on the side of that box.

And where you the guy going on about how great the Octavia is but you wouldnt buy one

Jeez Big Nelly your embarrassing yourself with your ignorance now.. The world and his dog know the PD tdi engines used by the VAG group (AUDI, Volks, Seat, Octavia) are all the same. If you don't believe me then go into your local VW garage and have a look in their parts dept and you'll see that all the boxes have volkswagen/seat/octavia labelled all over them.
Seriously man you need to get over that badge snobbery thing thats going on inside your head.

Jeez you should get over calling people ignorant. So what do you drive?

zag

Some debate! I'm no car expert, but I have heard great things about Octavias/Leons/Toledos. Why pay more for the VW, when you can get one of the above for less? It makes sense to me. If it's such a big deal, why not buy a Skoda, and order a badge+grill from Volkswagon!

Henry Ford III

Worth a look?

zag

Cant link to it, behind a bloody firewall! What is it? How much?

Mc-BigE

Big Nelly wrote:

And where you the guy going on about how great the Octavia is but you wouldnt buy one

I said i've never owned one, i never said i wouldn't buy one.
I've driven octavia's/passat's before and to be honest the only difference is the badge and the price. when its time to change the skoda garage will be one of the garage's on my list, along with audi/BMW and even VW!

One could argue that the VW is the Cheap man's Audi! have you thought about that!

zag

Mc-BigE wrote:

Big Nelly wrote:

One could argue that the VW is the Cheap man's Audi! have you thought about that!

Damn, got there before me!

Mc-BigE

Big Nelly wrote:

How about a 00 Audi A3, lovely car to drive and very easy on juice. Only a 1.6 engine and has been newly serviced and new timing belt????

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054890290&highlight=audi+a3

Thats only going for 10k but getting no calls? everyone else seems to be more so I cant see why its not selling seeing as it has all the extras that most of the other A3's out there dont have, sun roof etc

I thought you said that VW cars (and Audi are supposed to be better than VW;) ) hold their value??;) you've already dropped the price by 2K , looks like you'll have to go down some more?

Vegeta

Big Nelly is right in saying that bringing in a car for the UK with all the add ons is a good idea. VWs are good cars but a lot of manufacturers are catching up with them. The real thing that gets me is the price of extras.

My best friend bought a brand new civic last week, he had his heart set on a golf but after driving both and after seeing the price of a golf with the same "toys" that came standard in the civic he took the civic.

A good mondeo tdci if you can get one for that price, they are a great car. A passat, a skoda or a seat if you can manage it aswell

Big Nelly

Mc-BigE wrote:

I thought you said that VW cars (and Audi are supposed to be better than VW;) ) hold their value??;) you've already dropped the price by 2K , looks like you'll have to go down some more?

What you talking about? price drop because it my GF cars and she is off to Oz, she is not really pushed on selling and talking of giving to her sister now. Just though I would throw it into the bowl.

Again I mention only losing 500 euro on my Passat in a year and putting 20k on it. Name one other car on the market where you would get that? and dont mention Golf because they are not in the same market place.

Wouldnt say the Passat is a poor mans Audi, they are more or less on the same playing Field. Same difference in price and thats about it. If I dont buy a Passat next year it will be an Audi. Will NEVER buy an Skoda! end of story!

Mc-BigE

Big Nelly wrote:

Will NEVER buy an Skoda! end of story!

Good for you!


Now, enough of this forum sh1te, ive got work to do.....bye

zag

Thanks for all the feedback. I have a clearer idea of what way to go here. I'm going to have a look a Toledo's, just after a quick look on the web, they seem to have value alright.

Won't be buying for a month at least, so if any of you hear of anything, let me know.

gyppo

SEAT 1 - Passat 0

yellow012

Big Nelly wrote:

Jeez you should get over calling people ignorant. So what do you drive?

If you stopped coming out with such drivel then there would be no need to call you names? Free speech is all well and good but ffs your like a broken record coming out with this rubbish everytime this debate comes up.
For what its worth I drive an Mk 2 Octavia 1.9tdi Elegance, i'm on my third one, I've never had a problem selling them on privately, never lost out much on them as regards depreciation and I will be buying another one next January, hopefully the 2.0tdi 140bhp model (the same engine thats in the Passat/Golf/A3/A4/Toledo etc) when it is time to change it.

Big Nelly

yellow012 wrote:

If you stopped coming out with such drivel then there would be no need to call you names? Free speech is all well and good but ffs your like a broken record coming out with this rubbish everytime this debate comes up.
For what its worth I drive an Mk 2 Octavia 1.9tdi Elegance, i'm on my third one, I've never had a problem selling them on privately, never lost out much on them as regards depreciation and I will be buying another one next January, hopefully the 2.0tdi 140bhp model (the same engine thats in the Passat/Golf/A3/A4/Toledo etc) when it is time to change it.

Drivel because Im not agreeing with you? what you talking about everytime. You only joined boards a few months ago. If you cant take someone opinion when they dont agree with your "drivel" and "ignorant" statement then stay out of here.

If you want to drive a Skoda off you go, doesnt make much difference to me. I already made the point the VW are a better car, this is shown by the sales of it. So its not only me that thinks they are. Was in a Skoda once and its worse than a base line Passat.

As I said already its a "poor mans passat".(again not my words so attack TopGear, think they know abit more about cars than you or me) Says something doesnt it:D

bazz26

Big Nelly wrote:

As mentioned in Top gear in last episode, the Octavia is a cheap mans Passat, Seat are the same. Dont get as good an engine and the extras are not included. Maybe its just me but I wouldnt drive a car with a Skoda badge.

A bit off topic...

But the Octavia uses the same platform as the Golf/Bora/Toledo/Leon and A3 not the Passat. The same TDi engines found in the Passat are also the same units found in the others above with slightly different bhp.

The 1997 - 2005 Passat uses VW's B5 platform and is also shared by the Skoda Superb. Audi/Seat/Skoda are all made by VW and share most components.

I don't think Skoda are a cheap man's VW, you could use the same logic and say VW are a poor man's Audi.

A Skoda owner is not too concerned by a badge or image rights but is more concerned about value for money.

Doh! Only spotted now that others have posted similar info before me.

yellow012

Big Nelly wrote:

Drivel because Im not agreeing with you? what you talking about everytime. You only joined boards a few months ago. If you cant take someone opinion when they dont agree with your "drivel" and "ignorant" statement then stay out of here.

If you want to drive a Skoda off you go, doesnt make much difference to me. I already made the point the VW are a better car, this is shown by the sales of it. So its not only me that thinks they are. Was in a Skoda once and its worse than a base line Passat.

As I said already its a "poor mans passat".(again not my words so attack TopGear, think they know abit more about cars than you or me) Says something doesnt it:D

Whohoa for a start you have no idea how long I have been on this Forum so give that stuff over.
And I have no problem with your belief that the "Octavia is the poor mans Passat", thats your point of view, its no skin off my nose. What I contradicted you on was the blatant cr@p you came out with when you said

Big Nelly wrote:

No its not a VW engine, it is more or less the same with cheaper parts hence why its cheaper and doesnt hold it value as well.:D

Even with a smilie that's just school boy-schoolyard drivel talk so you shouldn't get too offended when people tell you so.

Big Nelly

yellow012 wrote:

Whohoa for a start you have no idea how long I have been on this Forum so give that stuff over.
And I have no problem with your belief that the "Octavia is the poor mans Passat", thats your point of view, its no skin off my nose. What I contradicted you on was the blatant cr@p you came out with when you said

Look in the cornor and it says your join date of Jan 2005, not very long at all. Also it isnt my opinion if you can read. Read back and I mentioned it 3-4 times who opinion it is. If you cant read then dont bother replying.

zag

Big Nelly wrote:

Look in the cornor and it says your join date of Jan 2005, not very long at all. Also it isnt my opinion if you can read. Read back and I mentioned it 3-4 times who opinion it is. If you cant read then dont bother replying.

lads lads lads...

ffs, it's not that big a deal.

oldzed

2 cents , had a toledo for a while , hated it , changed it for a passat 110 bhp 1.9tdi , loved it great car , wife has a skoda 1.9tdi octavia 02 lovely car very economical and utterly reliable , if i was buying one i would look at the skoda superb took one for a spin nice car . But i now have an A4 1.8t and it rocks , You can have my audi when you pry it from my cold dead fingers............



zed

zag

oldzed wrote:

2 cents , had a toledo for a while , hated it , changed it for a passat 110 bhp 1.9tdi , loved it great car , wife has a skoda 1.9tdi octavia 02 lovely car very economical and utterly reliable , if i was buying one i would look at the skoda superb took one for a spin nice car . But i now have an A4 1.8t and it rocks , You can have my audi when you pry it from my cold dead fingers............



zed

I thought Zed was dead, baby?

Big Nelly

zag wrote:

lads lads lads...

ffs, it's not that big a deal.

Ahh i know man, winding him up! seems to have a problem with Passat people

Mc-BigE

Zag, don’t forget about the rover 75 diesel, it’s worth a look at if your considering the Toledo/ Octavia root. But knock them all down on price especially rover.

yellow012

Big Nelly wrote:

Look in the cornor and it says your join date of Jan 2005, not very long at all. Also it isnt my opinion if you can read. Read back and I mentioned it 3-4 times who opinion it is. If you cant read then dont bother replying.

You have me lost now, no idea what your on about..
I see you have 4800 odd posts, a clear example of "empty vessels making the most noise".

bazz26

Rover 75 2.0 diesel:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=413490

gyppo

You only joined boards a few months ago. If you cant take someone opinion when they dont agree with your "drivel" and "ignorant" statement then stay out of here.

Please enlighten me as to what difference it makes that someone only joined a few months ago. Surely they have as much right to make a comment as anyone else, or is there some unwritten rule or protocol I'm unaware of?

Mc-BigE

bazz26 wrote:

Rover 75 2.0 diesel:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=413490

thats a cracking spec on that low mileage car and it has a lot (not all) of 3 series BMW parts under its skin.
remember there's no timing belt changes to worry about as with the vw's as its a timing chain.

Looks are not for everyone but its not a bad one.

unkel

Some good advice up there ^^^

I'd seriously consider the Rover 75. It's gonna be cheap to buy, you'll get lots of value, it is big and comfy for your big commute and the BMW engine should last very well, while giving excellent economy. In three years with an additional 100k miles on it, it won't be worth much, but most other cars suffer the same issue in the Irish market

Alternatively a VAG diesel, the cheapest obviously the Octavia. Many taxis are now Octavias, a sure sign that they are reliable and economical and that they can take a high mileage

Big Nelly

gyppo wrote:

You only joined boards a few months ago. If you cant take someone opinion when they dont agree with your "drivel" and "ignorant" statement then stay out of here.

Please enlighten me as to what difference it makes that someone only joined a few months ago. Surely they have as much right to make a comment as anyone else, or is there some unwritten rule or protocol I'm unaware of?

Again can nobody read in here, he/she/person made a reference to me saying I was always having the same arguement, seeing as he/she/person is fairly new to boards then how the hell can they tell what I have said in the past? If you can read the thread then dont bother quoting bits of a reply without reading what it refers to.

Big Nelly

Mc-BigE wrote:

thats a cracking spec on that low mileage car and it has a lot (not all) of 3 series BMW parts under its skin.
remember there's no timing belt changes to worry about as with the vw's as its a timing chain.

Looks are not for everyone but its not a bad one.

If you buy Rover you may just run it into the ground, the resale value is non-existant. Never like the Rover so never looked at them, mate of mine bought one years ago and had probs form day one. Never looked at them because of that, was a number of stories running around about them then!

gyppo

I can read the thread, its just that quite frankly I find you quite inarticulate, confusing, and difficult to follow your logic.

To summarise, I'll end with a very apt proverb:

Never argue with a fool - they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.




End of conversation.

Mc-BigE

Big Nelly wrote:

If you buy Rover you may just run it into the ground, the resale value is non-existant. Never like the Rover so never looked at them, mate of mine bought one years ago and had probs form day one. Never looked at them because of that, was a number of stories running around about them then!

I already said that big Nelly, and you’re the one giving out about people not able to read:D
(Remove pin, throw grenade..................;) or in your case....pin)

Mc-BigE wrote:

The Rover 75 diesel is a de-tuned version of the BMW 320d engine, which is a very good engine, I would be concerned about re-sale value on a 75 but if you buy one cheap in the first place you can't complain.
QUOTE]

Rudolph Claus

Sure everyone knows seat/skoda/VW use the same engines, class engines them TDI`s variants are class in my opinion but golfs are over-priced and too basic, just like Passats and all things VW.

Big Nelly, what crap are you talking about. Do you not understand that they use the same engines or do you just not want to admit that a skoda 1.9Tdi is every bit as good an engine as a golf tdi or leon, etc.

The Passats are a nice-ish car but nothing special. My uncle bought the 2002 model brand new, the Tdi 130 6spd model, it didnt even come with mudflaps or a cd player as standard in 2002. A car that cost 26000punts if i remember correctly. This was the wifes car. Decent power alright, but boring looking.

Anyone that says a skoda octavia or seat something is a poor mans version of a Vw something is a complete tit. A seat leon tdi 110Horsepower is a class car just as a golf tdi is and an octavia. They have the same engines.

You seem to think your Passat is special and superior, Big Nelly. Whats with the badge snobbery? Badge snobbery is usually for people that like to think they have money.(unles its something **** like a skoda fabia) My uncle traded his passat for a Merc Cdi automatic costing the guts of 60grand. Can you afford that Nelly, or does your budget just manage to stretch to over-priced boring Passats. :rolleyes: