The Hazards of Belief

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Two CoI bishops attended a Gafcon conference the other week, generating some controversy.

Bishops’ presence at Gafcon an ‘absolute disgrace’

'Wilfully schismatic' movement supports submission of women to men

Gafcon is in the news again.

Church of Ireland clergy object to conservative bishop’s appointment

Thirty-six senior Church of Ireland clergy have put their names to an open letter objecting to the appointment of the newly elected Bishop of Down and Dromore due to his involvement with a conservative Anglican group.

In a letter to the church’s House of Bishops, the signatories say they are concerned Archdeacon David McClay may not be an appropriate choice due to his membership of the Gafcon (Global Anglican Future Conference) Ireland movement.

They believe the group’s policies are “antithetical” to the principles a Church of Ireland bishop must commit to in the rite of consecration. These include “fostering unity, care for the oppressed, and building up the people of God in all their spiritual and sexual diversity”.

Gafcon was founded in 2008, originally to oppose same-sex marriage and the ordination of LGBTQ+ people. It has proclaimed itself as a unique upholder of biblical orthodoxy and as “a global family of authentic Anglicans standing together to retain and restore the Bible to the heart of the Anglican Communion”.

The letter says a Gafcon taskforce last June recommended that “the provinces of Gafcon should retain the historic practice of the consecration only of men as bishops”. In 1990, the church voted in favour of ordaining women as deacons, priests and bishops. It has one woman bishop currently, Bishop of Meath and Kildare Pat Storey.

Are Church of Ireland bishops about to fail their vast middle ground?

North/South Church of Ireland divide deepens

Bannasidhe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Gafcon is in the news again.

Church of Ireland clergy object to conservative bishop’s appointment




Are Church of Ireland bishops about to fail their vast middle ground?

North/South Church of Ireland divide deepens

Oh for the days when the Anglican Communion was tearing itself apart over being High Church or Low Church, that's a proper in house bicker topic but now it's all ohhh the ghey. That's sooo 1980s.

Odhinn

Attempted brain washing on a truly vast scale.

The internal workings of a vast system of Chinese internment camps used to detain at least a million people from the nation’s Muslim minorities are laid out in leaked Communist party documents published on Sunday.
A classified order from a top Chinese security official makes clear the re-education camps in the country’s north-west – which it describes as vocational training centres – are involuntary, secret and used for ideological “education transformation”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/nov/24/china-cables-instructions-on-how-to-run-a-chinese-detention-centre-annotated-document

Hotblack Desiato

We had pretty much an entire country turned into a brainwashing camp for long enough.

Hotblack Desiato

Dublin parish paid €3.5m compensation for loss of light due to new developments

A Catholic parish in the centre of Dublin was paid €3.5 million in compensation for the loss of light to its church caused by adjacent building developments.

The Immaculate Heart of Mary Church is on City Quay, on the south side of the Liffey, beside the Talbot Memorial Bridge.

The quay is currently undergoing extensive development driven by the profits being made from the commercial property market.

The payment is mentioned in accounts just published by the Parishes of the Diocese of Dublin, the registered Catholic charity that deals with a number of funds and income and payments made by the capital’s Catholic parishes.

Total income for the parishes during 2018 was €35.6 million, with more than half of this coming from family offerings, donations and shrine income.

Net income for the charity was €88,000, after which it gained a further €3.2 million from the sale of buildings.

Stipends to 374 serving priests were €10.4 million, while 69 retired priest[sic] were paid €1.1 million, and €3 million was expended on nursing and homecare costs.

A linked charity, the Charities of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin, received donations of €842,000 during the year, and legacies of €98,000.

A separate set of accounts for this charity confirmed that contracts with the GAA for the proposed sale of the college and its lands, at Clonliffe Road, Drumcondra, were signed in May.

The sale was approved by the Vatican and the Charities Regulator, for a purchase price of €95,157,500, and the property will be sold in four separate tranches between 2019 and 2022, according to the accounts.

“The charity and the GAA are co-operating closely on plans to ensure the lands and buildings be developed into one of the most significant community projects for the north city in many years, providing housing, jobs and sports facilities.”

They also revealed that the archdiocese will be making a €700,000 contribution to the cost of the World Meeting of Families event, which was held in Dublin in 2018.

The three-day event at the RDS co-incided with the visit of Pope Francis. “It was an historic and faith-filled occasion for our church, our city, and our country,” the trustees said in their report.

“Included in expenses is an expected contribution by the charity in relation to remaining costs for World Meeting of Families 2018, estimated at €700,000.”

During 2018 payments of €1.02 million were made out of an unrestricted, general fund, in response to clerical sex abuse claims.

A provision of €10.6 million is contained in the accounts for potential future claims arising from clerical sex abuse of children. The equivalent figure in 2017 was €12.3 million. The balance in the general fund at year’s end was €7.6 million.

The accounts show that during 2018 the charity’s investments dropped €1.6 million in value because the the poor performance of investments markets, but the trustees said the markets “rebounded strongly” in early 2019 and the losses were recouped.

They say that the estimated Catholic population of the archdiocese, which includes most of Wicklow, considerable sections of Kildare, and parts of Carlow, Wexford and Laois, as well as all of Dublin county, is one million.

There was a significant decrease, to €6.1 million, from €22.4 million, in the deficit in the diocesan pensions schemes for a number of reasons, including the removal of guaranteed pension increases. The pension schemes are non-contributory for staff.

Holy Cross College in Drumcondra, which had not functioned as a seminary since 2000, was officially “suppressed” in May of this year and its assets transferred to the archdiocese.

Well done to them on monetising a right to light, any property column you read where someone is writing in to complain about the deleterious effects of their neighbour's erection tells them there is no general right to light in law.

Looks like the retired prists are on a "half final salary" DB scheme - non-contributory at that - some deal these days, although their retirement age tends to be rising fast... a worker:retiree ratio of 5.4:1 at the moment but surely that'll go through the roof over the next few years.

Good to see them making prudent financial provisions for sex abuse claims, wouldn't want to see them bankrupted or anything :rolleyes:

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Well done to them on monetising a right to light, any property column you read where someone is writing in to complain about the deleterious effects of their neighbour's erection tells them there is no general right to light in law.

We actually have quite strong right to light legislation here if you have a look at the SCSI guidelines, from section 1.2 onward.

Hotblack Desiato

Ah, but you see it says a right to light has to be granted, or gained through a period of long uninterrupted enjoyment*, like a right of way. And Irish courts seem a lot less keen on the latter than English ones are.

Hence "there is no general right to light in Irish law"**


* Combining a period of long uninterrupted enjoyment with your neighbour's erection is an exercise left to the reader.

** IANAL (this is a description of my professional activities not my hobbies)

Hotblack Desiato

Mini-protest outside high-powered legal eagles Arthur Cox this morning.

3 people with large placards

"Christian Solicitor Dismissed By Arthur Cox"

"€70,000 ex-gratia"

Anyone any idea what this is about? Searches aren't turning up anything.

Perhaps ironically, Arthur Cox was founded by a priest.

ohnonotgmail

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Mini-protest outside high-powered legal eagles Arthur Cox this morning.

3 people with large placards

"Christian Solicitor Dismissed By Arthur Cox"

"€70,000 ex-gratia"

Anyone any idea what this is about? Searches aren't turning up anything.

Perhaps ironically, Arthur Cox was founded by a priest.

there is a thread in AH about this.

Hotblack Desiato

That's about a case from 2014 though! and the employer was Tipperary County Council.

ohnonotgmail

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

That's about a case from 2014 though! and the employer was Tipperary County Council.

oh right, i didnt read the details. bit of a coincidence that the amount was the same. Is that the going rate?

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Mini-protest outside high-powered legal eagles Arthur Cox this morning.

3 people with large placards

"Christian Solicitor Dismissed By Arthur Cox"

"€70,000 ex-gratia"

Anyone any idea what this is about? Searches aren't turning up anything.

Perhaps ironically, Arthur Cox was founded by a priest.

Just a guess, but this maybe; https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-christian-lawyer-ejected-screaming-fit-arthur-cox

Hotblack Desiato

Probably that incident alright.

They were back out at lunchtime. Placard was actually "Christian Solicitor Ejected From Arthur Cox"

The 70k just seems to be the going rate for hurt Xtian feelings! Although if this guy is a UK employee I doubt he'd get the kid gloves treatment that happened here.

By the sound of this this guy hasn't even been fired (yet anyway)

Chancers.

Expect a LOT more of this "Help help we're being oppressed" stuff in future. BOB was at it in the Irish Times last Saturday. Of course she totally ignored the fact that coutries like Pakistan and Bangladesh are even more vicious in their persecution of atheists/apostates (or even those alleged to be so) than they are of christians.

Time to pay attention to the persecution of Christians

In typical Xtian illogic, in Ireland they'll be simultaneously claiming to be a persecuted minority at the same time as they claim to represent the majority of the population, "Christian country" etc :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

Back again today. It's the infamous Burkes, you'd recognise them in their mormon-esque suits anywhere.

Mention of 70k dropped, perhaps on legal advice :pac:

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Placard was actually "Christian Solicitor Ejected From Arthur Cox"

My furtive imagination renders that like the scene from Alien that sees the demise of John Hurt, except with a mini Christian Solicitor rather than a juvenile alien. Poor old Arthur, eh?

Hotblack Desiato

Or the airlock scene from 2001: A Space Oddysey

robindch

He'd be pointing at it only he's on crutches.

Mystery as holy well is painted pink. With additional glue goodness

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/enniscorthyguardian/news/mystery-as-holy-well-is-painted-pink-38725868.html

Enniscorthy Guardian wrote:

A close-knit community in Enniscorthy is trying to find out who is responsible for painting a local holy well pink and why it was done. Local man, Terry Canavan, visited the well on Sunday, November 17, and to his amazement saw it had been painted a bright pink colour. However, it's not just the stone wall and gate surrouning the well that were painted as a chair located nearby, and a stone plaque were also given a make-over.

Because of the fact holy statues that were located on a small alter at the site were placed neatly around the top of the wall of the well locals believe it wasn't an act of vandalism that turned the iconic and ancient holy site into an eye-catching pink vista. Mr Canavan is a regular visitor to the site, however, because of an injury he wasn't down there for around two months prior to his visit a week-and-a-half ago. 'I was really shocked when I saw it,' he told this newspaper.

'It's a real mystery because it would have taken a bit of time to do it and the fact the statues weren't smashed or broken makes it look like it was done for a reason other than vandalism,' he added. However, no-one around the locality saw anything, or anyone, in the area and that makes the mystery behind it all the more intriguing.

Locals are encouraging whoever is responsible to make themselves known just so they can find out why it was done and if there was a specific reason behind it. 'I would have been in the habit of keeping the well and the area around it fairly clean,' said Mr Canavan. 'Unfortunatly, I wasn't able to get down there for a while,' he added.

However, he didn't expect that the next time he would see the well it would be pink. Because of the fact the wall completely encloses the water in the well also means that whoever painted it likely had to stand, literally, in the well water to complete the job. They also glued a holy statue onto the gate pier at the entrance to the well site from the road. There is a reference to the well in the Topographical Dictionary of Ireland dated 1837.

Mr Canavan said that whoever is responsible for painting the well can contact him in strict confidence on 085 7338437 to ascertain the reason why it was painted pink.

'We'd just like to know why it was done,' he said.

Hotblack Desiato

Looks a lot more like lilac tbh - not pink

Bannasidhe

The Carmelite Nuns of the Holy Face of Jesus (love that name!) just keep providing comedy gold.

The West Cork congregation of 2 (and a statue) were up before the Beak due to lack of planning permission issues and failure to comply.

Before events began, Judge McNulty said while the court was respectful of all faiths and to those who venerate statues, "this is no place for holy statues".

And so Sr Anne Marie was asked to store the Child of Prague elsewhere while the hearing got underway...

...Sr Irene had dispensed with her solicitor from the earlier hearing and she and Sr Anne Marie were deep in prayer before proceedings commenced...

...On visiting the site last Monday he was "met by a very abusive Nun", he said, adding "various disparaging words were said of me". ...

...She apologised for the green building, but was not backing down when it came to the other contentious aspects. "I would say that on the [remaining] sheds that are presently there, if we are to remove these we will be virtually homeless," she said. "We are living in them, believe it or not. We are very comfortable in them. We are not in third world conditions.


"We have no other accommodation at the moment, other than these two residential sheds." Another shed acts as a kitchen. "We are having to take the blessed sacraments within our bedrooms in a small hatch in the wall," she said. "We meet together in each other's cell, otherwise we are alone in silence."...

...Sr Anne Marie, a young Nun, then took the stand. To borrow a phrase, the mouse roared, the Kiwi belying her quiet and steady demeanour by taking aim at the Council in a prepared statement. She wrote her surname on a piece of paper she provided to the Judge, not wanting to provide it in open court, giving her name as "Sr Anne Marie of the Sacred Heart"....

...Judge McNulty said:

"I am a great believer in 'the Lord provides'. But he will have to hurry up. You may have to pray harder, Sister.

"Sometimes if the prayer goes unanswered, that is your answer, but it seems like you are making progress."...

...Later Sr Irene handed out some sheets of paper outlining its defence and a poem writen by a Carmelite nun and dated yesterday, before some time later emerging into the wind and rain, their faces covered by their habits and the Child of Prague in their arms.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/this-is-no-place-for-holy-statues-carmelite-nun-at-centre-of-planning-row-at-skibbereen-court-969591.html

ohnonotgmail

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The Carmelite Nuns of the Holy Face of Jesus (love that name!) just keep providing comedy gold.

The West Cork congregation of 2 (and a statue) were up before the Beak due to lack of planning permission issues and failure to comply.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/this-is-no-place-for-holy-statues-carmelite-nun-at-centre-of-planning-row-at-skibbereen-court-969591.html

Only in Ireland.

Hotblack Desiato

Fair play to the judge, it's as if they were expecting him to be all deferential to them.

looksee

I like the notion of a lack of 'strong and willing men' delaying their plans, I have strong and willing men doing restoration work on my house at the moment - I find that paying them is a great encouragement.

Bannasidhe

looksee wrote: »

I like the notion of a lack of 'strong and willing men' delaying their plans, I have strong and willing men doing restoration work on my house at the moment - I find that paying them is a great encouragement.

I liked how Sr Anne Marie was described as the mouse that roared.

robindch

The courthouse must have been packed with journos as everybody's filed a report on this one, some with delicious details. Nice to see the country's hard-working journalists finally getting a chance to stretch their legs in the field of "gentle but devastating" reporting.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/West-Cork-nun-found-guilty-of-breaching-planning-laws-c9efccd2-6082-403d-b988-7e2ce2e53370-ds
https://www.thesun.ie/news/4870945/hermit-nun-found-guilty-planning-laws-breach/
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/nuns-hopeful-they-can-stay-in-their-cork-home-despite-claims-it-was-entirely-unauthorised-38114938.html
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/nun-found-guilty-of-breaking-planning-laws-at-cork-compound-1.4111116

Judge McNulty is reported to have told Gibson:

Judge McNulty wrote:

I am a great believer in ‘the Lord provides’ - but he may need to hurry up. You may need to pray harder, Sister.

robindch

With Child of Prague goodness:

Hotblack Desiato

What's with the covering their faces thing? Even back in the old days nuns didn't do that (well, apart from the ones who were never let out in public, I suppose.)

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

With Child of Prague goodness:

All we need now is a Boris Johnson article about pillar boxes. :P

Igotadose

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

What's with the covering their faces thing? Even back in the old days nuns didn't do that (well, apart from the ones who were never let out in public, I suppose.)

Was wondering that, too. My guess is some freakery about being part of the 'face of Jeebus' order? Kind of look like Xtian niqabs to me.

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

What's with the covering their faces thing?

Avoiding the public, I suppose. They're supposed to be hermits after all - though they don't live in that place any more, but in a distinctly weird outfit a few miles away called "The Priory", run by the SSPX Resistance, a ragtag group of hardliners who make the pansies who write and print "Alive!" look like wimps.

Anyway, there's more than a touch of a K-S20 security droid about the nun at the front.

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

the SSPX Resistance, a ragtag group of hardliners who make the pansies who write and print "Alive!" look like wimps.

The ballot box in one hand, and the Carmelites in the other?