The Smiths - Overblown just a tad?

Closing Doors

Oh I agree Pablo Honey is weak, but hey its got "You" on it, which imho pisses on anything on The Stone Roses or Second Coming.

Relating to the original topic there are many many other bands more commonly cited as influences than the Smiths. You've just listed many of them (although listing Coldplay is debatable )

I meant it was infantile in that you were just lashing out at other bands, just because it appeared we liked them.

jtsuited

the smiths are ridiculously over-rated.

There...
I said it

Bixmoo

the smiths.. brilliant band and not rated highly enough in my opinion

SprostonGreen

Lunar Junkie wrote:

In a river the colour of lead
Immerse the baby’s head

One of their best songs.

My favourite ever band, they've influenced many bands and people, but you dont need the NME to spout on about them.

Peter Collins

Nobody cares if you don't like the smiths or think they're overrated...Morrissey's not going to lose sleep over it and you're going down fast in everyone's estimation

Go and listen to Bob Dylan and that crusty old load of sh1t and leave the smiths to the intelligent people in the world

What a plum

is_that_so

Peter Collins wrote:

Nobody cares if you don't like the smiths or think they're overrated...Morrissey's not going to lose sleep over it and you're going down fast in everyone's estimation

Go and listen to Bob Dylan and that crusty old load of sh1t and leave the smiths to the intelligent people in the world

What a plum

One needs to be of a certain age to "get" Morrissey and despise the "crusties". Loved Johnny Marrs guitar playing but couldn't listen to a song if I was paid.
Overrated to me.

CiaranC

The Smiths, like all great art, have a polarising effect on the audience. Its a love or hate em deal.

Personally, I think The Smiths are the greatest band of all time, bar none.

Peter Collins

CiaranC wrote:

The Smiths, like all great art, have a polarising effect on the audience. Its a love or hate em deal.

Personally, I think The Smiths are the greatest band of all time, bar none.

Correct

John

Peter Collins wrote:

Nobody cares if you don't like the smiths or think they're overrated...Morrissey's not going to lose sleep over it and you're going down fast in everyone's estimation

Go and listen to Bob Dylan and that crusty old load of sh1t and leave the smiths to the intelligent people in the world

What a plum

If you can't discuss things without resorting to insults, please don't post here.

Giblet

Peter Collins wrote:

Nobody cares if you don't like the smiths or think they're overrated...Morrissey's not going to lose sleep over it and you're going down fast in everyone's estimation

Go and listen to Bob Dylan and that crusty old load of sh1t and leave the smiths to the intelligent people in the world

What a plum

Morrissey has barely any semblance of an education and would probably be HORRIFIED at such comments!

Lunar Junkie

That's a bit of a random comment Giblet.. he didn't go to college, sure, but he attended primary and secondary school and read an awful lot himself, so I'd say he has a fairly solid education compared to a lot of musicians! In fact, it provides the inspiration for some of his music.. like 'The Headmaster Ritual'..

Giblet

Actually, I was making fun of the stupid comments by Peter Collins.

nlgbbbblth

Peter Collins wrote:

Nobody cares if you don't like the smiths or think they're overrated...Morrissey's not going to lose sleep over it and you're going down fast in everyone's estimation

Go and listen to Bob Dylan and that crusty old load of sh1t and leave the smiths to the intelligent people in the world

What a plum

Go back to RTE.

egon spengler

the music is good, but I cant stand morrissey and they are over rated imo.

Lunar Junkie

Giblet wrote:

Actually, I was making fun of the stupid comments by Peter Collins.

Oops - too easy to miss sarcasm on the internet - apologies

eoin5

MTV decreed that the Smiths are cool, and so it came to be...

aidan24326

'Morrissey comes out with the occasional gem alright but most of his lyrics are pretty simple and nothing to write home about'

This is missing the point of Morriesy's lyrics. Yes they were simple in that he didn't use any high brow language and there was nothing complex about his style of writing. But many of his lyrics are quite tongue in cheek and were never meant to be taken too seriously. He did have a wonderfully unique way of seeing things. Who else could possibly have compared loneliness to 'a punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate...' or suggest that Joan of Arc was listening to her walkman as she burned at the stake. Such a brilliantly twisted sense of humour. Much of the problem with Morrisey's lyrics is that due to his cult hero status his lyrics have been over-analysed from every angle, inside out and to the extent that it seems some of his songs/lyrics may have taken on a more profound meaning than originally intended. Personally though I would rate him as a unique talent and I agree with those who say that the brilliance of his songwriting collaboration with Marr has rarely been equalled. Of course NME are exaggerating a bit but that doesn't come as any great surprise.

adonis

aidan24326 wrote:

'Morrissey comes out with the occasional gem alright but most of his lyrics are pretty simple and nothing to write home about'

This is missing the point of Morriesy's lyrics. Yes they were simple in that he didn't use any high brow language and there was nothing complex about his style of writing. But many of his lyrics are quite tongue in cheek and were never meant to be taken too seriously. He did have a wonderfully unique way of seeing things. Who else could possibly have compared loneliness to 'a punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate...' or suggest that Joan of Arc was listening to her walkman as she burned at the stake. Such a brilliantly twisted sense of humour. Much of the problem with Morrisey's lyrics is that due to his cult hero status his lyrics have been over-analysed from every angle, inside out and to the extent that it seems some of his songs/lyrics may have taken on a more profound meaning than originally intended. Personally though I would rate him as a unique talent and I agree with those who say that the brilliance of his songwriting collaboration with Marr has rarely been equalled. Of course NME are exaggerating a bit but that doesn't come as any great surprise.

may i commend you on a fine first post?

goo

I don't like the Smiths and I dislike a lot of their fans.

John

But do you think they're overated?

Darkbloom

They are awful, awful lyrics.

So many fine lyrics look **** quoted out of context. You need to listen to Morrissey's voice almost breaking with the sadness to fully appreciate that line. And yes, it is the greatest song of all time.

Hmmm. NME spent most of the 80s **** off over the Smiths and sold many an issue off the back of a Smiths story. They've spent the last 19 years trying to recreate them in practically every band, most notably the Libertines.

Influential? Of course. Look at Pulp. Jarvis Cocker's aesthetic, vocal delivery and humour are all pure Morrissey. Pulp's lyrics have that splendid combination of biting wit and deep emotion. Suede. Anderson and Butler were both big fans of the Smiths. The latter has praised Marr many times. The Libertines, with their songs mourning an England that never was, the tension between the two talents and the early self-destruction.

There are many bands I could list who cite the Smiths as an influence. But the most influential? Hmmm. Seems that it's just typical NME hyperbole to sell a few issues.

Still, the Smiths deserve all the praise they get, more so because they've never reformed and tarnished their memory.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Dudess wrote:

Good point. In people's lives. I would say The Smiths are the most original group of all time actually.

You have to be ****ing joking me...

JC 2K3

OK, here's the thing, I'm into a wide range of music and love discovering new bands.

Now I hadn't heard any of the Smiths despite hearing them being praised a lot, so a few weeks ago I decided to download an album and give them a listen. I don't know when it's from or anything buut the first torrent I found was for "Hatful of Hollow".

I've listened to it a couple of times since then and it doesn't exactly strike me as amazing. Just sounds bland and average to me. Haven't listened closely to the lyrics, but they don't strike me as anything special.

Am I missing something?

Attractive Nun

I know it's not the point of this thread and all but...

Earthhorse wrote:

I've only listened to Blood on the Tracks but I have to say that I found Dylan's lyrics incredibly uninspired. But I will concede that many people rate Morrissey and Dylan as great lyricists.

...Come on, Dylan's lyrics are unreal! Personal taste and all that, but I don't see how:

"take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind,
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves,
The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach,
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about today until tomorrow."

can be condsidered uninspired. It's not from Blood on the Tracks, but even that album is fileld with witty and poignant stuff. Wrong thread to debate this in, so I'll stop anyway.

Anyway, I'm a huge Smiths fan but they are quite overrated in general. 'The Queen is Dead' is, IMHO, their only genuinely brilliant album.

Earthhorse

I love the way you say there are plenty of witty and poignant lyrics on Blood on the Tracks but chose lyrics from a different album to make your point. Priceless!

aidan24326 wrote:

This is missing the point of Morriesy's lyrics. Yes they were simple in that he didn't use any high brow language and there was nothing complex about his style of writing. But many of his lyrics are quite tongue in cheek and were never meant to be taken too seriously. He did have a wonderfully unique way of seeing things. Who else could possibly have compared loneliness to 'a punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate...' or suggest that Joan of Arc was listening to her walkman as she burned at the stake.

I don't find either of the examples quoted here as either brilliant or witty. And the fact that Morrisey isn't using big words has nothing to do with it.

Dudess

JC 2K3 wrote:

OK, here's the thing, I'm into a wide range of music and love discovering new bands.

Now I hadn't heard any of the Smiths despite hearing them being praised a lot, so a few weeks ago I decided to download an album and give them a listen. I don't know when it's from or anything buut the first torrent I found was for "Hatful of Hollow".

I've listened to it a couple of times since then and it doesn't exactly strike me as amazing. Just sounds bland and average to me. Haven't listened closely to the lyrics, but they don't strike me as anything special.

Am I missing something?

Hmmm. I don't know. I can usually spot a sacred cow a mile off but I am one of the people who has always found The Smiths to be incredible. Granted, they had a couple of duff moments but who hasn't?

Attractive Nun

Earthhorse wrote:

I love the way you say there are plenty of witty and poignant lyrics on Blood on the Tracks but chose lyrics from a different album to make your point. Priceless!

Alright, fine.

Shelter from the Storm:

'Twas in another lifetime, one of toil and blood
When blackness was a virtue and the road was full of mud
I came in from the wilderness, a creature void of form.
"Come in," she said,
"I'll give you shelter from the storm."

Tangled up in Blue:

Then she opened up a book of poems
And handed it to me
Written by an Italian poet
From the thirteenth century.
And every one of them words rang true
And glowed like burnin' coal
Pourin' off of every page
Like it was written in my soul from me to you,
Tangled up in blue.

You're gonna make me lonesome when you go:

Flowers on the hillside, bloomin' crazy,
Crickets talkin' back and forth in rhyme,
Blue river runnin' slow and lazy,
I could stay with you forever
And never realize the time.

I quoted lyrics from another album because I was talking about Dylan's lyrics in general, as your central criticism seemed to be that you couldn't understand why people considered them inspired. I sought to enlighten you, Earthhorse, and it was thrown in my face! I am appalled! Mr Tambourine Man happens to have some of my favourite lyrics, so I quote them. Anyway, if you still think Blood on the Tracks has uninspired lyrics, this page disagrees.

No more thread derailing, I'm sorry...

Amazotheamazing

People see me all the time and they just can't remember how to act
Their minds are filled with big ideas, images and distorted facts.
Even you, yesterday you had to ask me where it was at,
I couldn't believe after all these years, you didn't know me better than that
Sweet lady.

Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your mouth,
Blowing down the backroads headin' south.
Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth,
You're an idiot, babe.
It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe.

Idiot wind, blowing through the buttons of our coats,
Blowing through the letters that we wrote.
Idiot wind, blowing through the dust upon our shelves,
We're idiots, babe.
It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves.

Actually, that entire album is class.

Earthhorse

Idiot Wind is my favourite song, lyrically, from the album. I think it stands up quite well.

Sorry Attractive Nun, but your initial post seemed to be saying "C'mon, how can you not consider lyrics from Tambourine Man uninspired", when I'd explicitly said I was only familiar with Blood on the Tracks. I just took you up wrong, didn't realise you were trying to educate me. Appreciate the effort. For the record I don't find any of the examples you quoted from Blood on the Tracks much good. They seem kinda cliched to me. The Tambourine Man lyrics on the other hand, do seem a bit more sophisticated, I'll give you that.

And eh, the people who live two doors down from me are the Smiths.

JMArr

Well the NME are primarily an indie rag right? so of course they'd say that! they should have said most influential 'english indie' band of all time ..I'd agree with that but not most influential band period.

But overrated? never.

The Smiths are an amazing band and one of the reasons people get so into them and so devoted is cos there's so much to discover once you do you can just get lost in it. for example they wrote something like 70 songs in only 4 or so years together ..and about 95% of that output is quality -amazing complex clever beautiful music ..and very original.

Johnny Marr is unique for a start. completely inimitable .. IMO there hasnt been a guitarist since in that style to top him..bernard butler and graham coxon come close but still havent matched what he did.Almost 20 years later there's people still trying to work out what he played on some songs.I picked up a new guitar tab book 'best of the smiths' that came out recently and had to laugh ..chord positions etc were completely wrong on most of the tunes!and this is supposed to be by the experts :O)

And Morrissey's a one off no doubt about it. Its a love or hate thing with him for sure.I dont think I know of another lyricist that can mix the sublime and the ridiculous like he can ..something like There Is A Light or Asleep can break your heart and then listen to Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before or Girlfriend In A Coma and split your sides laughing...who else did that before Moz?

Oh and on a technical level they broke the whole verse verse chorus structure on a lot of their songs ..prob paved the way for more bands to do that as well.

And kudos to mike joyce and andy rourke too ...going back to the original poster ..Doc J listen to the bass on barbarism begins at home .
Anyone who hasnt heard I'd recommend Meat is Murder to start or even best of 1 & 2 and then hit the albums.Long live The Smiths!