over the top or acceptable

missingtime

I would say if he actually pays for it then maybe there's a little problem. Sure, there's loads of free stuff all over the shop.
I have to admit doing it if you are asleep is a bit much.At least if ye were apart he'd have some excuse.
If you want to stay with him try maybe looking at some porn for couples.Probably not his cup of tea but if you were with him twud make all the difference.

Another quick point my gf doesn't like me getting FHM.I dont get it that often but whenever i do she gets a bit odd but in the end I'd be struggling to get it off her. You never know ye might enjoy it together.

seamus

This is one of those cases where going behind your back doesn't necessarily mean that he's constantly lying to you about everything or that there are latent troubles in the relationship.

For a lot of men, asking them to never look at porn because you don't like it, is like asking a dog to never licks its testicles because it looks awful. They'll agree at the time and look sorry, but five minutes later they'll be off again.

Whereas in most other cases, he'll probably argue his case and tell you if he thinks your being unreasonable, the porn thing is a little unique - if he stands his ground and demands his rights to look at porn, then he (in his eyes) is publically admitting that he masturbates. And this is still a big taboo in Irish (and UK) culture - masturbation is fine as long as someone else is doing it for you, but once it comes to self-pleasuring, many people see it as something which should be hidden away, even from their partners.

Perhaps you should join him to see what he's getting out of it? Buy/rent a porn movie and watch it in bed together. He probably won't even get 30 seconds in before he's all over you.

Sam Vimes

snappieT wrote:

I don't think the issue is that he's looking at porn. The issue is that he's going behind your back when he said he wouldn't. That's something that really needs to be sorted.

to be fair, would you say to your girlfriend : "see you in a while. i'm off to look at naked women".

seamus

^^
My case in point

The Corinthian

I went out with a girl years ago that was of the conviction that ‘meat is murder’. As such, she early on in the relationship tried to impose upon me that I should become a vegetarian.

For a short while I played along with her, while grabbing a sly burger or stake on the side. After all, apart from the Veggi-nazi thing, she was a nice, fun girl and also was able to bend and contort her body in so many fun ways. No man would give that up likely.

But ultimately I told her that it wouldn’t work out if this became a prerequisite of the relationship; not simply because I like meat, but also because I did not want forced upon me a morality that I simply could not agree with. After all, if God didn’t want us to eat meat, He wouldn’t have made animals out of food.

I could compromise and eat less meat and never in her company, but that was not good enough for her, so that was that.

From what I can see is that much the same thing is happening here. The OP is imposing her morality on her boyfriend. No one is suggesting that he is cheating on her and in response he’s doing so behind her back, which is his, erroneous in my view, way of compromising.

Anyhow, there are three possible solutions. Firstly, she can learn to deal with it. This might involve her participation in looking at porn with her boyfriend, or looking at porn herself, or simply placing boundaries whereby he can look at it and she can turn a blind eye.

Secondly is where she imposes her morality on him - “it’s either the porn or me”. Given that he’s invested already in a long-term relationship he’ll most likely pick her over porn, however he will resent her for this. And, even if not the principal reason, it may well contribute to a future break up or infidelity.

Finally is substitution. To put it bluntly, an empty sack is a happy sack. It’s not unusual for men to look at porn because their libidos are higher than their partners - the OP likes sex three times a week, while he may well like it three times a day, type of thing. So if she can keep up with his fantasies and libido then she will not need to ask him to stop looking at porn.

Ultimately the OP is asking him to give something up. I’ve yet to hear her suggest that she’ll give something in return or otherwise compromise.

Talliesin

The Corinthian wrote:

But ultimately I told her that it wouldn’t work out if this became a prerequisite of the relationship; not simply because I like meat, but also because I did not want forced upon me a morality that I simply could not agree with.

This is a fair point. However it's just as through that if he expects her to tolerate pornography that he is forcing his morality (one in which either porn is okay, or in which it's not okay but he uses it anyway) on her.

Smellyirishman

Talliesin wrote:

it's just as though that if he expects her to tolerate pornography that he is forcing his morality (one in which either porn is okay, or in which it's not okay but he uses it anyway) on her.

No, because she does not have to watch the porn.

If he came to her and said "If we are going to stay together, you must watch porn with me every week" that would be forcing her.

The Corinthian

Smellyirishman wrote:

No, because she does not have to watch the porn.

No, he has a point. If her boyfriend were a drug dealer and she found this morally objectionable, simply because she does not deal drugs herself does not absolve the situation.

Of course, all this assumes that her objection is purely moral, which, by her own admission, it is not.

Altheus

Seraphina wrote:

the girl was going around on her hands and knees and oinking like a pig. consequently, while engaging in some dp, there were repeated shouts of 'oink bitch, oink!' which the girl couldn't do because she was being erm... 'treated' pretty roughly by the guys. my mate seemed to find this quite amusing.

That was hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. I'd be more worried if he grunted and moaned at it rather than see the absolutely absurd fetishisation. Porn can be graceful and tastefull, even with DP and pig masks, or it can be absurd and rough. After all it's all fantasy, whether softcore playboy or hardcore bang bros.

To the OP, this is your call.

What is it about porn that you don't like? Is it your own self-esteem, a feminist agenda, a moral objection? What's the basis, what are the terms? Are they reasonable. Do you apply any other conservative rules to other areas of your life, i.e. sex.

Personally I feel that you have no right to tell your boyfriend what he can and can't do. What you can do is discuss it, and come to some sort of agreement. Simply tarring something unacceptable, and then to have it come back to bite you in the ass in no surprise.

The fact is, that looking at porn and masturbating is not the same as sleeping around or soliciting prostitutes, in fact it's not even like going to a tittie bar. It's not cheating, it's not flirting. It has no correlation in my mind to real relationships, apart from maybe watching one with a girl for a laugh.

I think that you're going to fight a losing battle, because it is rarity that you'll find a man willing to give up looking up a good skinflick so as he doesnt hurt his demanding over-sensitive girlfriend. I certainly wouldn't.

Altheus

The Corinthian wrote:

No, he has a point. If her boyfriend were a drug dealer and she found this morally objectionable, simply because she does not deal drugs herself does not absolve the situation.

Of course, all this assumes that her objection is purely moral, which, by her own admission, it is not.

Drugs and porn? There's a bit of a difference. One is illegal, has far-reaching local and worldwide repercussions, social detractions, and a lot more baggage.

Flicking on Bravo at 1am should never be comparable to drug dealing, even with absolute moral law.

The Corinthian

Altheus wrote:

Drugs and porn? There's a bit of a difference. One is illegal, has far-reaching local and worldwide repercussions, social detractions, and a lot more baggage.

Flicking on Bravo at 1am should never be comparable to drug dealing, even with absolute moral law.

That’s your opinion, your morality. So you might think there’s a bit of a difference, but that’s because you have a different morality. No doubt there are people who would disagree that there’s anything wrong with drug dealing too.

The thing is people have completely different moralities - one man may, for example, feel that homosexuality is abhorrent to the point of seeing killing them as a kindness and another will see the first man as the abhorrent one. And yet both sets of morality exist in this World and they’re just as convinced as you are that “there’s a difference”.

Given this, I suspect it’s more of an academic point, as the moral angle is more of a justification than a reason to the OP.

stovelid

I love my wife but it's none of her business what i look at, including porn.

I would have no problem with her looking at it.

Most people with any sexuality have fantasies. Some people like porn to this end. So what?

The whole issue of whether porn n is exploitative is obviously another (boring) question altogether. The issue here is letting your insecurity unfairly limit your partners freedom to indulge in harmless fantasy.

I think that in the OPs situation, the porn sounds like a minor catalyst for feelings of insecurity and jealously.

I suggest that you talk with your partner about these feelings rather than haranguing him over porn and driving him away.

stovelid

I can understand that movies like this appeal to the worst aspects of men and personally i don't like watching them but it's not really a feminist issue as such.


The "actresses" are not coerced into making the films, in fact they are probably paid quite well.

Why not say the likes of heat and cosmo are proto-porn because they exploit women (or their body issues) to flog beauty products.

Where does it end?

Seraphina wrote:

laugh and call me a feminist, or roll your eyes, but i have to agree with cupsoftea on this part.

i remember a male friend laughing his head off telling me about this porno he saw in which the girl was going around on her hands and knees and oinking like a pig. consequently, while engaging in some dp, there were repeated shouts of 'oink bitch, oink!' which the girl couldn't do because she was being erm... 'treated' pretty roughly by the guys. my mate seemed to find this quite amusing.

Altheus

The Corinthian wrote:

The thing is people have completely different moralities - one man may, for example, feel that homosexuality is abhorrent to the point of seeing killing them as a kindness and another will see the first man as the abhorrent one. And yet both sets of morality exist in this World and they’re just as convinced as you are that “there’s a difference”.

Sure, you can wax philosophical on the point, and I challenge anything to be right or wrong. The fact is the we're trying to find some kind of consensus here. The "difference" here is law, not opinion, which for me instantly supercedes and defeats the moral issue. I'll reiterate that to compare watching pornography and being a drug-dealer in a real discussion involving a relationship is simply farcical.

If you want to draw an analogy to the situation, then the closest I can think of would be drug-use. For instance, if your boyfriend smoked hash, and you dissaproved, you would probably be able to reason this. It costs money, changes behaviour somewhat, perhaps causes hot rocks in the duvet covers.

So, we have good reason and evidence to dislike this behaviour, and can then act upon it accordingly.

In the case of watching pornography the biggest hurdle seems to be the OP's insecurity and not the moral high ground. If it's an issue where your sex life is gone downhill or something else, then perhaps you have some ground, but as far as I can see, it's seem somewhat irrational and a knee-jerk reaction.

LegacyUser

ok guys, let me clear up a few things. i have watched porn, its not someting i'm judging on hearsay. i've watched it with my boyfriend and on my own. neither interested me or helped create a 'mood'. i found it to be a little degrading to women but thats not the main point. i do get jealous of the women in the movies and i know thats my problem not my boyfriends. we have a healthy sex life and i'm openminded to a lot of things. but he watches lesbian porn and thats what i dont like. because there its not about sex as such but about him wanting to watch 2+ women together. it does hurt to think of your partner fantisising about other people no matter what u say. he's clearly looking at it for the women and thats why i feel insecure. its hard to want sex with him when i know he's been getting turned on by other women. reality or fantasy, he's still doing it. i've discussed this with him and have told him i'd rather he didnt watch porn but never said he couldnt. i gave him his choice but let him know where i stood. i agree that if you say 'its me or ...' then you'll have a problem in future. but by him doing something that he knows i hate, is he not comprimising my happiness? where do u draw the line?

The Corinthian

Altheus wrote:

Sure, you can wax philosophical on the point, and I challenge anything to be right or wrong. The fact is the we're trying to find some kind of consensus here.

The thing is with pornography there is no consensus in our Society. People may be broadly forgiving, but that does not mean that they endorse it or consider those opposed to be wholly without merit. Ireland is an Anglophone culture, and like it or not that means that we will have our fair share of hang-ups about sex.

The "difference" here is law, not opinion, which for me instantly supercedes and defeats the moral issue.

Then you would have agreed with the Nuremberg Laws, I take it.

I'll reiterate that to compare watching pornography and being a drug-dealer in a real discussion involving a relationship is simply farcical.

The example was chosen because it would be easy for your average individual to identify with. You didn’t like it; fine, I’m not too bothered.

In the case of watching pornography the biggest hurdle seems to be the OP's insecurity and not the moral high ground. If it's an issue where your sex life is gone downhill or something else, then perhaps you have some ground, but as far as I can see, it's seem somewhat irrational and a knee-jerk reaction.

As I’ve already said a few times, the moral question is a side issue and would agree that the primary one is based upon the OP's own insecurities.

Crucifix

pronto wrote:

ok guys, let me clear up a few things. i have watched porn, its not someting i'm judging on hearsay. i've watched it with my boyfriend and on my own. neither interested me or helped create a 'mood'. i found it to be a little degrading to women but thats not the main point. i do get jealous of the women in the movies and i know thats my problem not my boyfriends. we have a healthy sex life and i'm openminded to a lot of things. but he watches lesbian porn and thats what i dont like. because there its not about sex as such but about him wanting to watch 2+ women together. it does hurt to think of your partner fantisising about other people no matter what u say. he's clearly looking at it for the women and thats why i feel insecure. its hard to want sex with him when i know he's been getting turned on by other women. reality or fantasy, he's still doing it. i've discussed this with him and have told him i'd rather he didnt watch porn but never said he couldnt. i gave him his choice but let him know where i stood. i agree that if you say 'its me or ...' then you'll have a problem in future. but by him doing something that he knows i hate, is he not comprimising my happiness? where do u draw the line?

If he never watched porn again he would still fantasise about other women/get turned on by other women.

coolmoose

as we say "there are two types of men - those who look at porn, and those who lie about it!"

i think men and women view porn from different perspectives. im in a 4 year relationship, and i look at porn. my girlfriend knows this and is ok with it.

as long as he's faithful to you i don't see a problem. approach the issue with him, but asking him to not watch porn is a bit extreme. relationships are give and take, perhaps you can come to a compromise?

aliveandkicking

pronto wrote:

but he watches lesbian porn and thats what i dont like. because there its not about sex as such but about him wanting to watch 2+ women together. it does hurt to think of your partner fantisising about other people no matter what u say. he's clearly looking at it for the women and thats why i feel insecure. its hard to want sex with him when i know he's been getting turned on by other women.

Without wanting to sound harsh, you are just going to have to get your head around this. All men do it, the boyfriend you are with now and any boyfriends you have in the future will do it. If you don't sort your head out now regarding this issue it will become a recurring problem in your life.

Kell

pronto wrote:

i've very low self esteem and cant help feeling inadequate and ugly compared to pornstars.

And you are wondering if you are over reacting?

Perhaps address the root of the issue and then look at it again in a fresh light when you do not suffer from low self esteem and inadequacy issues.

K-

metrovelvet

Wouldn't the simplest solution be to not compare yourself to them, if its the comparisons which are exacerbating your esteem issues.

missingtime

pronto wrote:

but he watches lesbian porn and thats what i dont like. because there its not about sex as such but about him wanting to watch 2+ women together.

This is probably the most basic fantasy that guys have and to be honest you are lucky that its just girl on girl that he likes. Its easier to see if from a guys point of view but the viewing of porn isn't done so that you can thing about it when you are having sex with your girl/boyfriend. I know I dont think about it when i'm with my girl.
And dont compare yourself to the pornstars cos half the time the are not that good looking its just what they get up to thats 'entertaining'.