Should the man always pay?

Zombrex

dubferg wrote:

So I mentioned it tonight, after paying for the bill. That was that - she was on a bus home without even saying goodbye. I think she really felt hurt and angry.

What exactly happened?

- Could she have thought you were asking her to pay for the whole thing?

- Could she not have any money and been embrassed by that?

- Could she have stormed off over something else that you are not realising?

Seems all a bit bizare in this day and age that a woman would be actually angry and upset over something like this, even if she is one of the "the man pays for everything" girls.

So a bit more info please on the actual argument.

chillywilly

i love paying for a date/meal or whatever IF the girl offers to split the bill....it shows how kind genourous and down to earth a girl is imo:)

if they dont offer to pay anything i feel they wouldnt be my type!

Fanny Cradock

@metrovelvet:
Well, if she finds him "repulsive" after he suggested SHARING a bill (let's keep this in it's proper context), then that's her problem, and I'd assume this isn't the first time she has done something like this.

I don't agree with how the OP went about things, or the fact that he took the money at the end (I assume he was a bit shocked), but her reaction was farcical and disproportionate. I'd expect her to react like that if she was told that her new dress made her look fat or some such.

---Edit----

Maybe as wicknight said, there could be more to it then just a simple bill!

metrovelvet

Well I would agree that the silver lining in this is that he discovered that she is unwilling to talk things through and resolve things, which I would find a pain in the ass in someone.

But I would tell them that I wasnt finding this interesting anymore. I wouldnt continue to date them, finance the dates, and then say I'd prefer them to share the financial burden of these dates when what I really wanted them to do was **** off.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

I dont get why the OP wasn't forthcoming about what he wanted to do. I'm sure he knew this would annoy her, and then he would have an out.

AngryAnderson

metrovelvet wrote:

its about not letting you assert your status.

Wow. My spidey senses are tingling.

metrovelvet

AngryAnderson wrote:

Wow. My spidey senses are tingling.

Im so happy for you. Its been a long time huh?

Gordon

metrovelvet wrote:

OP pays for one meal and you are all calling her a gold digging whore.

Unbelievable.

metrovelvet: I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in people's mouths. The exact quote used was "tight b*tch". I agree it's pretty heavy language, and I'm not happy with it on PI but it's not "gold digging whore". I'd prefer it if you stick to the facts as opposed to reading between the lines when it comes to quoting previous poster's opinions/statements. Cheers.

Oh, and AngryAnderson: please keep this on topic.

OP do you want me to move this to Humanities or are you happy with it being here?

metrovelvet

Gordon,

Just to quickly remind you:

This is from Angry Andersons post. Number 15. Mine was 16. And then in 17 the sentiment is repeated.

means she's nothing short of a filthy, gold-digging skank. Similar to the ones you might see whoring their bodies in any red light district on a Saturday night.

Gordon

How did I miss that, my apologies mv

AngryAnderson, keep your language civil ffs, there are children reading this.

Back on topic.

AngryAnderson

Sorry, let me rephrase. The girl, seemingly, is not a very nice person and is only interested in a relationship if she gets a free lunch. She obviously wasn't the least bit interested in you but more what she could get from you. Seeing as you asserted that you wouldn't be taken for a ride at an early stage of the relationship and she behaved like a spoilt child then I can only conclude that she's not worth worrying about. If she's 40 and behaving like that, no wonder she's still on the shelf. That's about as civil as I can be.

chump

The girl should always at least offer.

I'd agree that it's decent in the first date at least if the lad pays... But once things become more regular, and provided there is some sort of parity between both parties pay, it's surely time to split the bills. Or better, to take turns...

All that said, you wouldn't want to get into a situation where you're making notes of who paid what.

Fanny Cradock

chump wrote:

All that said, you wouldn't want to get into a situation where you're making notes of who paid what.

Or, for that matter, adding up to the nearest cent who owes what!

Kingp35

I may be wrong but I think the whole idea about men paying for things came about because "back in the day" there was alot of women who didnt have jobs or didnt have good jobs so it was only right for the man to pay. In this day and age I think its pretty ridiculous and down right rude to expect the guy to pay for everything and if any woman expected me to pay for everything I would run a mile.

Im 21 and ALL my mates share the bill if they go out with someone for a meal or whatever, thats guys and girls. MAybe if they went to a pub the guy would buy the drinks because its only 5e or whatever but the price of a meal is totally different. We live in time where everything is equal with respect to pay between men and women so a woman expecting a man to pay for everything is living in the past and needs to wake up.

OP maybe you didnt go about it the right way but you were dead right to say something.

AngryAnderson

Kingp35 wrote:

I may be wrong but I think the whole idea about men paying for things came about because "back in the day" there was alot of women who didnt have jobs or didnt have good jobs so it was only right for the man to pay. In this day and age I think its pretty ridiculous and down right rude to expect the guy to pay for everything and if any woman expected me to pay for anything I would run a mile.

Im 21 and ALL my mates share the bill if they go out with someone for a meal or whatever, thats guys and girls. MAybe if they went to a pub the guy would buy the drinks because its only 5e or whatever but the price of a meal is totally different. We live in time where everything is equal with respect to pay between men and women so a woman expecting a man to pay for everything is living in the past and needs to wake up.

Bingo! That's the price of equality. It works both ways.

Victor

meowCat wrote:

If you have never asked to split the bill before and out of the blue ask her to, in fairness, what do you expect? She most likely thought it's your way of saying let's just stay friends, I'm not that interested any more. Additionally, you don't know what kind of treatment she is used to.

Are you saying he would have got laid if he paid?

Umaro

At the age of 40 maybe she couldn't pay the bill because she was busy going through her change. BADUM-DISHHHH!!!

*leaves*

Crea

As a 35 year old female I can categorically state that she doesn't come from a "generation" that expects the men to pay. She would have been in college in the 80's not the 50's!!
She should have offered to pay halves maybe not on the first date but at one of the dates. In my case I either paid halves or let him pay the first date and me the next.
The situation was dealt with badly and with no sensitivity. Mind you I can't think of an easy way of talking about someone not paying their way. If you find a woman you like you might try being a bit more diplomatic or maybe you won't mind paying cause you like her.
She should have been mortified and apologetic not angry.

Spliffany692000

If girls expect 50-50 in a sexual relationship so why not in everything else??

Ickle Magoo

I think she over-reacted as well....but I think most people would when accused of money-grabbing!! lol!!

Next time you go on a date & the bill is brought over, why not say something like "I'll get it this time - you can pay next time" - that way you ask her out again & solve the problem of her paying in a oner?! ;)

Incidentally, I nor any woman I know (of any age) would expect a guy to pay for everything on every date without even offering to pay our way.....tho I know such women exist....:o

LegacyUser

Keyser Soze 5 wrote:

Well the fact that she reacted in the way she did means she's nothing but a gold digging whore!!!!

but the whole paying for the meal thing can be really awkward, sometimes i'd just not say too much the first few times so u dont hae to get in an awkward "i'll pay" "no i'll pay" discussion on yr first date.

i would imagine once u got to know her better this wouldn't be a problem.

i can imagine myself that if a guy confronted me about something like this after i'd only known him a few weeks i'd be really really embarrased and feel totally awful, and i can imagine she did too and thats why she ran off without saying anything. u just really should've handled it better.

and at the end of the day, its just money, theres no need to be making anyone feel **** about it. i'd give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she just wasn't comfortable enough with the situation to guess whether offering to split it would end in an uncomfortable polite argumenty yoke.

Enii

It doesn't matter what eveyryone elses opinion on the paying or not is. For the OP it was a deal breaker.

Personally I think the man should pay and the woman should offer. However, even if the woman does not offer the man should still pay and then not see her again.

Don't understand what the OP wanted from the girl though by mentioning that he preferred to split the bill. He wasn't going to see her again so he should have just cut his losses and never see her again. I think he was being a bit scabby and wanted to force her to pay but then felt all guilty by her reaction.

Dragan

meowCat wrote:

If you have never asked to split the bill before and out of the blue ask her to, in fairness, what do you expect? She most likely thought it's your way of saying let's just stay friends, I'm not that interested any more

I'm really sorry, but any girl possible of making this thought pathway seem logical to herself is not the kind of girl any dude needs to be going out with.

Him :"Honey.....would you mind splitting the bill with me this time?"
Her : "You don't want to see me any more????"

Him :"I'm just popping out to drop these DVD's back up to the store, would you like anything from the shop?"
Her :"You slept with my mother??????" :eek: :rolleyes:

As for the OP, dude, it would strike me that you may be better off without!!

The Corinthian

There are some women who one could genuinely call ‘gold diggers’, or more correctly parasites, but these are in reality rare in modern Society. What is more commonplace is the ‘princess syndrome’ that will sometimes include the attitude that it is a man’s duty to ‘wine and dine’ a woman indefinitely.

It’s not that they are avaricious or consciously parasitic, but more that they are immature and still believe that any romance inevitably revolves solely around them. They simply never learned that there is another person in the relationship and that as a result you will have to compromise if you want them to do likewise. Typically few, if any, men put up with their **** for long and they end up almost always spinsters well into their forties.

The male equivalent, in case anyone accuses me of sexism, tends to continue behaving like a playboy-commitment-phobe long after everyone around him has settled down. Every woman in his life will inevitably fail some litmus test or other, and will either get dumped or dump him after realising that it’s not going anywhere. Again, they end up almost always bachelors well into their forties.

In both cases, the hallmark is an individual who has very uncompromising ideas about relationships. If you’re with them, it’s on their terms or not at all. Some do eventually wake up and smell the coffee that there’s another sentient in the relationship, but they’re late bloomers if they do.

But retuning to the specific scenario highlighted in this thread, whether a man is expected to pay always, on the first or first few dates or ever depends upon the Society both parties come from. Relative age and wealth are also considerations. In most, if not all, of Europe couples start splitting bills relatively early on; almost immediately in Scandinavia and after two or three dates in some Mediterranean countries.

Also bare in mind that while many women will contribute, you’ll still be paying the majority of the time. Given the money they spend to look good for you in the first place, this is perhaps not an unfair expectation.

If you find a woman is not offering to split a bill after a few dates and this bothers you, then don’t bother to bring it up. She’s not offering because she doesn’t want to and bringing up the subject will simply result in either an embarrassed or hostile reaction.

So if it bothers you, move on. Don’t whinge about it. There’s plenty more fish in the sea and the vast majority will not behave in that manner.

Zombrex

If I ask a girl out on a first date I don't mind paying because I am taking her out. It was my idea, she is agreeing to come out with me.

But once you are actually dating, ie you both are arranging to both go out because you both like each others company, then it is ridiculous that the guy should still be paying the whole amount.

I would have very little respect for a woman who expects that each time.

6th

agent smith wrote:

i have no problem paying, if i ask someone out, i'll pay.
altho to back up meowcat's point. there are times where it's nice to be offered,

Looks like smith has it right. I like to pay (in saying that i'm married now) but its nice if they offer.

Its your own fault for letting it get to that stage.

I'm old fashioned so i think a guy should always pay. Unless she makes the invite.

Mad Mike

Interesting Post Conrinthian - I have met several examples male and female of the type of individuals you describe.

AngryAnderson

6th wrote:

I'm old fashioned so i think a guy should always pay.

<sarcasm>Me too. Which is why I think that the woman should leave her job right after the wedding and stay at home keeping the house clean and looking after the kids</sarcasm>

Zombrex

AngryAnderson wrote:

<sarcasm>Me too. Which is why I think that the woman should leave her job right after the wedding and stay at home keeping the house clean and looking after the kids</sarcasm>

Damn straight! ... back in the kitchen women, where you belong!

People seem to be forgetting that men traditionally paid for a woman because a woman traditionally didn't have any money! And if she did have money it was money given to her by her father, and it would be rude for the man to take the fathers money, not the womans.

I wonder if 6th would be willing to give over total control of all her money to her husband (not that she would have had any, it would have been controlled by her father) ... or is that a little too traditional

Zulu

Great post TC.

spinandscribble

thats just stupid. i cant believe there are girls so greedy and backwards as to think that they just need to sit there and the guy should pay their lazy arses way. i never expected my current boyfriend to pay my way and i wouldnt expect it from anyone. he did pay for valentines dinner and we'd get each other little things every now and then but seriously any girl that thinks the guy should pay her way for her needs to get her head checked.