Should the man always pay?

dubferg

I've just split up with a girl I've been seeing for about 4 weeks. The main reason: I suggested that I'd prefer to split the bill on meals together. Until now, I paid for one dinner and one small bill (bottle of wine and some snacks) so far, and she didn't offer to pay anything, just "gracefully accepted" it. We have each bought drinks at the bar.

So I mentioned it tonight, after paying for the bill. That was that - she was on a bus home without even saying goodbye. I think she really felt hurt and angry.

Now I kind if felt this short relationship wasn't really going anywhere anyway, but I feel bad about it now.

Should a man be expected to pay for meals in this day and age? Is there a more sensetive way of suggesting that we share costs?

I think I earn a lot more than she does, but I don't think that should make a difference. Or should it?

Hugh Hefner

You're better off without her.

Tar.Aldarion

What he said.

metrovelvet

How many meals have you paid for? It seems like in four weeks you have paid for one. Would that be right?

joebhoy1916

Who asked who out for the meal?

AngryAnderson

Better off without her. Don't feel bad. You had the balls to call her bluff early in the 'relationship' and now you know what she's like. Good on you.

meowCat

Ok, a girls' point of view here:

You shouldn't have started this habit of paying her night from the start!!!

If you have never asked to split the bill before and out of the blue ask her to, in fairness, what do you expect? She most likely thought it's your way of saying let's just stay friends, I'm not that interested any more. Additionally, you don't know what kind of treatment she is used to.

Personally, I always offer to pay my share because I'd feel horrible acting like a total dolly girly or whatever you wanna call it. But I find that most men won't allow me to pay and become sort of offended. I say thank you and accept -- but I make sure I always offer anyways!

You started it wrongly.
Set the rules properly right from the beginning next time!

Agent Smith

i have no problem paying, if i ask someone out, i'll pay.
altho to back up meowcat's point. there are times where it's nice to be offered,

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

dubferg

Thanks for the replies.

metrovelvet - I paid for wine plus snacks once. Then tonight I paid for a full meal. It's not that much, but I just thought I had to say something since she never offered to share.

Who asked who out for the meal?
joebhoy1916 - that's a good question. We just agreed to meet up, and she said a quiet dinner would be nice. I definitely didn't "invite" her to dinner.

meowcat - you're right I guess. But it seems a little cold to discuss this when I've only just met a girl! I really think a girl should offer to share, and be prepared to share.

Anyway, I'm not too upset. I just would have liked it to end in a more civilised way (dream on!).

Chucky the tree

sounds like a tight cow, better off without her. The fact she didnt even offer to pay says it all.

dubferg

I think if I was really into the relationship, I'd have continued to pay. But seeing as I getting less enthousiastic, I guess I did the right thing

Kinetic^

I'm with most people that it is unfair of her to think that you can pay for everything.

joebhoy1916

"We just agreed to meet up, and she said a quiet dinner would be nice. I definitely didn't "invite" her to dinner".

You should of said something like I would love to but im abit
skint! I know where your coming from but its not like you
do be paying for dinner every night?

I mean if you were paying the whole time then i would
say something.

Were you getting your moneys worth?

Maybe she was going to pay you in another way?

AngryAnderson

meowCat wrote:

Ok, a girls' point of view here:

You shouldn't have started this habit of paying her night from the start!!!

If you have never asked to split the bill before and out of the blue ask her to, in fairness, what do you expect? She most likely thought it's your way of saying let's just stay friends, I'm not that interested any more. Additionally, you don't know what kind of treatment she is used to.

Personally, I always offer to pay my share because I'd feel horrible acting like a total dolly girly or whatever you wanna call it. But I find that most men won't allow me to pay and become sort of offended. I say thank you and accept -- but I make sure I always offer anyways!

You started it wrongly.
Set the rules properly right from the beginning next time!

Hmm. Can't say I understand the logic behind this one. From what I gather, she didn't offer to pay on the first date and hadn't offer to pay for anything since. Now being a bloke, I would normally pay and would refuse if the girl offered to pay/go Dutch. HOWEVER, the fact that she was expecting him to pay and never even offered, isn't on. And the fact that she went ice cold on the guy and ran off without even saying goodbye after he took her out a few times and paid for her means she's nothing short of a filthy, gold-digging skank. Similar to the ones you might see whoring their bodies in any red light district on a Saturday night. Only this one's worse because she isn't desparate for the money - she simply likes taking advantage of people. I suspect she'll have the suitably crap life she deserves and, as I said in my original reply - she's not for you mate. Find someone more deserving.

metrovelvet

Wait ..... why is everyone reacting like this was habitual. OP pays for one meal and you are all calling her a gold digging whore.

Unbelievable.

Kinetic^

metrovelvet wrote:

Wait ..... why is everyone reacting like this was habitual. OP pays for one meal and you are all calling her a gold digging whore.

Unbelievable.

Well the fact that she reacted in the way she did means she's nothing but a gold digging whore!!!!

Hugh Hefner

metrovelvet wrote:

Wait ..... why is everyone reacting like this was habitual. OP pays for one meal and you are all calling her a gold digging whore.

Unbelievable.

I wouldn't be so concerned about her not offering (maybe she just doesn't know how things go in that social situation) but her reaction to being politely asked to, maybe, split the bill in the future was exactly the kind of thing that gives misogynists ammo.

metrovelvet

Where did you take her?

Maybe it was something in your delivery that hurt her feelings.

It seems pretty rude to me. If you make more than her, and this was the first meal out together and you always split the bar....

It may be a cultural difference though influencing my opinion. I'm not familiar this level of accounting in the early stages of romance. Did you get your pound of flesh at least?

But I sense that had you really liked this girl this wouldnt be an issue.

Chinafoot

I'd have to agree with metrovelvet, it seems a bit over the top to assume that she's a gold-digger. The OP paid for, as he said himself, a small bill on one occasion and then tonight for the full meal. That's hardly a lot.

I would seriously question how the OP approached the subject in order to get that reaction.

Maybe she found the OP rude and he said himself that he wasn't all that interested in her.
Also, the OP said that they got each other drinks at the bar. Surely if she was a gold-digger she would have expected him to pay for everything in that situation?

When myself and the boyfriend go out we usually split the bill, otherwise one of us pays for the full thing and the other gets it the next time, and when we go out to the pub we do rounds.

Maybe the OP reached for the credit card before the girl had the opportunity to offer to pay. That early on a relationship things can be awkward and some people might not want to offend, and as MeowCat said, some guys do get offended when you try to pay.

padser

Yeah paying is always an akward one. As a general rule me and my GF (generally have roughly same amount of money as both students) dont split individual items but alternate paying for stuff.

On a more genral note, iv absolutely no problem paying for more or all of an event. But id be very very vary of a girl who towards the beginning of a relationship wasnt offering to pay!

Better off without her.

oulu

You paid for 2 bills and you had an issue,it sounds mean to me,if you where looking for an excuse not to see her then you should have been more up front and honest with her, she is better of without in my opinion to be mean is like having a disease,

Mad Mike

I dont really condone her running off like that - If she was serious about a relationship she could at least have discussed it. However the fact that she is earning a lot less than you is significant. About six months in to my relationship with the beautiful lady who is now my wife we had a flaming row about money. Up to that point she had been paying her way pretty much equally (modern woman and all that) but the trouble is she was earning a lot less than I was. Turns out she was completely skint trying to keep up with my level of expenditure. I had been too gormless to notice and she had been too proud to point it out. Thankfully we sorted it out and adopted a more sensible approach.

AngryAnderson

I have to say, I'm standing by my guns on the premise that the OP was diplomatic in his approach and that she really did react the way he describes. Gold digger.

dubferg

OK, at the risk of analysing this to death, I'll try to give a few more details.

First date (arranged from online dating website!) we played pool. Great night, pool bill came to about 25 euro. I paid it, no offer to share. I think she was at the bathroom when I paid, maybe she just didn't think of it. Pool in Camden St. is expensive!

Another date: bottle of wine and snacks. Bill of 30 euro delivered to our table. I paid in front of her. No offer to share.

One or two other dates, just drinks, more or less alternating in buying rounds.

Last night: nice meal in 101 Talbot St. Bill of 70 euro total. She went to bathroom before bill came. I got bill, put money on plate and waited. She came back. As we left I brought money and plate to the desk and paid. No offer to share.

So we left for an afters drink somewhere else. I guess I didn't quite engage my brain before speaking, and just said "normally I'd prefer to share the bill". Slowly she moved away and said "that's where we're very different", and said she wanted to go home. I tried walking her to her bus (same direction as me anyway) and she said almost nothing. I tried discussing it, but no reaction. She pushed 50 euro at me which I ended up taking, which I regret. I'll give it to charity. She went into a shop to get bus change and ignored me, so I ended up just going home. I sent her a txt saying safe home.

Now we're both aged about 40! I think I'm more wealthy, and she does lots of charity and health type work. However, she's buying property in Ireland AND Bulgaria at the moment, so she's not exactly on the breadline.

I had wanted to finish the relationship anway, but hadn't the guts to say it straight out. This incident certainly did the trick.

If you must know, I did get the "pound of flesh" but I don't think that has anything to do with it.

Nickibaby*

I think it was prob your approach that hurt her. Plus i think 'older' people like my my mum and that would expect a man to pay the bill (not saying i agree with it)

When i go out i would always offer to pay the bill and the man would normally insist on paying. I don't think splitting the bill is exactly romantic counting out exactly half at the end of the night though and I think i would be quite offended if someone suggested it. What me and my boyfriend normally do is he pays one time i pay the other. It's not getting caught up over a few euro here or there.

Maybe she would have done that maybe she wouldn't, who knows.

Anyway you got your money back anyway the 50 euro would about cover half what you paid so far. So i'm sure your happy

AngryAnderson

The money's not really the issue though. It's more her attitude towards it. It's a thorny issue but if she had made light of the situation and tried to discuss it in the open and voice her opinion, like a woman of her age should, then all well and good. Even if she WAS of the opinion that the man should always pay! But she went off in a huff like a spoilt teenager. Better off without her IMO.

py2006

Wow, 40! I thought you were going to say 16 or something! She is coming from a generation were they expect the men to pay for everything.

It is a strange thing to expect in this day and age. I usually go to pay for drinks etc on dates but after a few dates I would start to get a bit wary when there isn't even a offer to help out with things,

I imagine she was a bit taken back by your comment but I believe you were right to say it. Her reaction was extremely immature for a 16yr old let alone a 40 yr old.

You say you are wealthier than she is, perhaps she is a bit of a gold digger!

Chinafoot

dubferg wrote:

I had wanted to finish the relationship anway, but hadn't the guts to say it straight out. This incident certainly did the trick.

Sums it up pretty much, to be honest.

Fanny Cradock

meowCat wrote:

You shouldn't have started this habit of paying her night from the start!!!

If you have never asked to split the bill before and out of the blue ask her to, in fairness, what do you expect? She most likely thought it's your way of saying let's just stay friends, I'm not that interested any more. Additionally, you don't know what kind of treatment she is used to.

I have to disagree here!

First off, your logic suggests that just because the guy bought her a meal once, it's now a "habit" he must keep up in perpetuity. Rubbish!

As for the possibility she thought the OP was saying "let's be friend's" because he wanted to split the bill, well that's a HUGE assumption to make. It absolutely confounds me how you could reach a conclusion like that. I don't mean to pick on you, meowcat. I'm just confused as to your train of thought!

Anyway, "that's where we're very different" is a pretty hilarious answer! Personally, I wouldn't have mentioned it AFTER the bill had been paid (Sadly enough, if I pay for a meal for a girl it makes me feel that bit more manly… no, no. allow me ), but I assume that the problem would have arisen even if you had suggested splitting the bill before-hand. If she got that emotionally fraught over something as insignificant as a bill, I think you're better off without her. I think in this case, with her bizarre reaction, things have probably worked out for the best!

metrovelvet

dubferg wrote:

So we left for an afters drink somewhere else. I guess I didn't quite engage my brain before speaking, and just said "normally I'd prefer to share the bill". Slowly she moved away and said "that's where we're very different", and said she wanted to go home. I tried walking her to her bus (same direction as me anyway) and she said almost nothing. I tried discussing it, but no reaction. .

Meals. I think the ritual plays into some atavistic thing about showing you can provide food for the family. Then there are other women who dont want to give you the satisfaction so they dont let you pick up the tab - its not about being fair here - its about not letting you assert your status.

dubferg wrote:

She pushed 50 euro at me which I ended up taking, which I regret. I'll give it to charity. .

Oh the irony. Will you give it to the one she works for?

You got what you wanted. You're going to give it away now just so you dont feel like the bad guy? I shake my head in dissappointment.

dubferg wrote:

I had wanted to finish the relationship anway, but hadn't the guts to say it straight out. This incident certainly did the trick..

I thought so. So you came up with a way for her to find your repulsive. Why werent you just more honest with yourself and with her and say you werent into the relationship?

Zombrex

dubferg wrote:

So I mentioned it tonight, after paying for the bill. That was that - she was on a bus home without even saying goodbye. I think she really felt hurt and angry.

What exactly happened?

- Could she have thought you were asking her to pay for the whole thing?

- Could she not have any money and been embrassed by that?

- Could she have stormed off over something else that you are not realising?

Seems all a bit bizare in this day and age that a woman would be actually angry and upset over something like this, even if she is one of the "the man pays for everything" girls.

So a bit more info please on the actual argument.

chillywilly

i love paying for a date/meal or whatever IF the girl offers to split the bill....it shows how kind genourous and down to earth a girl is imo:)

if they dont offer to pay anything i feel they wouldnt be my type!

Fanny Cradock

@metrovelvet:
Well, if she finds him "repulsive" after he suggested SHARING a bill (let's keep this in it's proper context), then that's her problem, and I'd assume this isn't the first time she has done something like this.

I don't agree with how the OP went about things, or the fact that he took the money at the end (I assume he was a bit shocked), but her reaction was farcical and disproportionate. I'd expect her to react like that if she was told that her new dress made her look fat or some such.

---Edit----

Maybe as wicknight said, there could be more to it then just a simple bill!

metrovelvet

Well I would agree that the silver lining in this is that he discovered that she is unwilling to talk things through and resolve things, which I would find a pain in the ass in someone.

But I would tell them that I wasnt finding this interesting anymore. I wouldnt continue to date them, finance the dates, and then say I'd prefer them to share the financial burden of these dates when what I really wanted them to do was **** off.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

I dont get why the OP wasn't forthcoming about what he wanted to do. I'm sure he knew this would annoy her, and then he would have an out.

AngryAnderson

metrovelvet wrote:

its about not letting you assert your status.

Wow. My spidey senses are tingling.

metrovelvet

AngryAnderson wrote:

Wow. My spidey senses are tingling.

Im so happy for you. Its been a long time huh?

Gordon

metrovelvet wrote:

OP pays for one meal and you are all calling her a gold digging whore.

Unbelievable.

metrovelvet: I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in people's mouths. The exact quote used was "tight b*tch". I agree it's pretty heavy language, and I'm not happy with it on PI but it's not "gold digging whore". I'd prefer it if you stick to the facts as opposed to reading between the lines when it comes to quoting previous poster's opinions/statements. Cheers.

Oh, and AngryAnderson: please keep this on topic.

OP do you want me to move this to Humanities or are you happy with it being here?

metrovelvet

Gordon,

Just to quickly remind you:

This is from Angry Andersons post. Number 15. Mine was 16. And then in 17 the sentiment is repeated.

means she's nothing short of a filthy, gold-digging skank. Similar to the ones you might see whoring their bodies in any red light district on a Saturday night.

Gordon

How did I miss that, my apologies mv

AngryAnderson, keep your language civil ffs, there are children reading this.

Back on topic.

AngryAnderson

Sorry, let me rephrase. The girl, seemingly, is not a very nice person and is only interested in a relationship if she gets a free lunch. She obviously wasn't the least bit interested in you but more what she could get from you. Seeing as you asserted that you wouldn't be taken for a ride at an early stage of the relationship and she behaved like a spoilt child then I can only conclude that she's not worth worrying about. If she's 40 and behaving like that, no wonder she's still on the shelf. That's about as civil as I can be.

chump

The girl should always at least offer.

I'd agree that it's decent in the first date at least if the lad pays... But once things become more regular, and provided there is some sort of parity between both parties pay, it's surely time to split the bills. Or better, to take turns...

All that said, you wouldn't want to get into a situation where you're making notes of who paid what.

Fanny Cradock

chump wrote:

All that said, you wouldn't want to get into a situation where you're making notes of who paid what.

Or, for that matter, adding up to the nearest cent who owes what!

Kingp35

I may be wrong but I think the whole idea about men paying for things came about because "back in the day" there was alot of women who didnt have jobs or didnt have good jobs so it was only right for the man to pay. In this day and age I think its pretty ridiculous and down right rude to expect the guy to pay for everything and if any woman expected me to pay for everything I would run a mile.

Im 21 and ALL my mates share the bill if they go out with someone for a meal or whatever, thats guys and girls. MAybe if they went to a pub the guy would buy the drinks because its only 5e or whatever but the price of a meal is totally different. We live in time where everything is equal with respect to pay between men and women so a woman expecting a man to pay for everything is living in the past and needs to wake up.

OP maybe you didnt go about it the right way but you were dead right to say something.

AngryAnderson

Kingp35 wrote:

I may be wrong but I think the whole idea about men paying for things came about because "back in the day" there was alot of women who didnt have jobs or didnt have good jobs so it was only right for the man to pay. In this day and age I think its pretty ridiculous and down right rude to expect the guy to pay for everything and if any woman expected me to pay for anything I would run a mile.

Im 21 and ALL my mates share the bill if they go out with someone for a meal or whatever, thats guys and girls. MAybe if they went to a pub the guy would buy the drinks because its only 5e or whatever but the price of a meal is totally different. We live in time where everything is equal with respect to pay between men and women so a woman expecting a man to pay for everything is living in the past and needs to wake up.

Bingo! That's the price of equality. It works both ways.

Victor

meowCat wrote:

If you have never asked to split the bill before and out of the blue ask her to, in fairness, what do you expect? She most likely thought it's your way of saying let's just stay friends, I'm not that interested any more. Additionally, you don't know what kind of treatment she is used to.

Are you saying he would have got laid if he paid?

Umaro

At the age of 40 maybe she couldn't pay the bill because she was busy going through her change. BADUM-DISHHHH!!!

*leaves*

Crea

As a 35 year old female I can categorically state that she doesn't come from a "generation" that expects the men to pay. She would have been in college in the 80's not the 50's!!
She should have offered to pay halves maybe not on the first date but at one of the dates. In my case I either paid halves or let him pay the first date and me the next.
The situation was dealt with badly and with no sensitivity. Mind you I can't think of an easy way of talking about someone not paying their way. If you find a woman you like you might try being a bit more diplomatic or maybe you won't mind paying cause you like her.
She should have been mortified and apologetic not angry.

Spliffany692000

If girls expect 50-50 in a sexual relationship so why not in everything else??

Ickle Magoo

I think she over-reacted as well....but I think most people would when accused of money-grabbing!! lol!!

Next time you go on a date & the bill is brought over, why not say something like "I'll get it this time - you can pay next time" - that way you ask her out again & solve the problem of her paying in a oner?! ;)

Incidentally, I nor any woman I know (of any age) would expect a guy to pay for everything on every date without even offering to pay our way.....tho I know such women exist....:o

LegacyUser

Keyser Soze 5 wrote:

Well the fact that she reacted in the way she did means she's nothing but a gold digging whore!!!!

but the whole paying for the meal thing can be really awkward, sometimes i'd just not say too much the first few times so u dont hae to get in an awkward "i'll pay" "no i'll pay" discussion on yr first date.

i would imagine once u got to know her better this wouldn't be a problem.

i can imagine myself that if a guy confronted me about something like this after i'd only known him a few weeks i'd be really really embarrased and feel totally awful, and i can imagine she did too and thats why she ran off without saying anything. u just really should've handled it better.

and at the end of the day, its just money, theres no need to be making anyone feel **** about it. i'd give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she just wasn't comfortable enough with the situation to guess whether offering to split it would end in an uncomfortable polite argumenty yoke.