Modularisation/Semesterisation(/Trimesterisation)

Just so you know, over the next few weeks there will be several items going up on here:

http://www.tcd.ie/local/modularisation/index.php

More info to follow.

Dónal

Yep, the first meeting of this group will be taking place on Wednesday (10th of May) at 4pm. This should be a long process, given the extensive terms of reference in the group which are present in the above link. I'll be posting regular updates on http://www.tcdsu.org/ informing everyone about what is going on at the working group.

To explain briefly, a few month ago the Senior Lecturer (person in charge of academic affairs) brought an item to the Heads of School Committee seeking advice on how to proceed. The meeting agreed that a further proposal be brought forward to that same committee, which was done. Out of this committee came a proposal for the working group, which then passed through University Council, and as such the working group is planning to proceed.

The final decision on this will go through both University Council & Board.

There will be much information placed on the above website (the modularisation one, not tcdsu.org!) during the time of discussion of the working group, similar to the restructuring website which seeks comments from both students and staff.

That's it!

Dónal (Education Officer)

Bartronilic

I'd go to UCDD for 12 years before Id ever do modularisation. I hate the idea. i like finishing in may and starting in october! Aah

Crash

this makes so little difference to me actually - my course is going to be run on semesters from next year anyhow, with exams when the engineers have em. so i'm already stuck with it, no matter what :P

Boston

How does thsi solidly affect students? I've done the Semesterisation and the Trimesterisation.

LiouVille

LiouVille wrote:

How does thsi solidly affect students? I've done the Semesterisation and the Trimesterisation.

Well, one suggestion was to start in September instead of October, and then have 12 weeks instead of 9, then another 12 weeks, then 4 weeks of exams. Another one was to have an earlier start in September, and then 12 weeks of lectures, then 2 weeks of exams, then another 12 weeks of lectures, then 2 weeks of exams.

It might be changing the entire structure of when we study, and how.

Boston

I like the 12 week and two weeks of exams idea, Works for me this year.

LiouVille

LiouVille wrote:

I like the 12 week and two weeks of exams idea, Works for me this year.

Personally I disliked having half the year based around a semester (which wasn't really a semester, it was 11, 2, 11 rather then 12, 12) since not all of the subjects were 'semesterised' (3E1, 3E2 & 3E3 all went on for the year). So JS Engineering is a bit twisted in that.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

What the hell is wrong with the way it is at the moment? If this means shorter holidays then I'm dead set against it...why 'fix' what ain't broke?

Crash

We end earlier, but start earlier. years still the same length.

&#231

&#231 wrote: »

We end earlier, but start earlier. years still the same length.

Plus there'd be a possible re-jigging of the 3 weeks we have off in March, with a view to extending the summer to 12 weeks from the current 8 (not including repeats), and one less week off over Christmas.

europerson

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote:

why 'fix' what ain't broke?

My sentiments exactly.

europerson

europerson wrote:

My sentiments exactly.

If you want to hear something else fun, guess when the three open meetings for staff and students to talk about S&M are planned? Yes, that's right, in the middle of the exams...

Hermione*

Myth wrote:

If you want to hear something else fun, guess when the three open meetings for staff and students to talk about S&M are planned? Yes, that's right, in the middle of the exams...

Sounds like something straight out of Hugh Brady's (the much loved president of UCDD, as he calls it) book! :rolleyes:

Crash

Myth wrote:

If you want to hear something else fun, guess when the three open meetings for staff and students to talk about S&M are planned? Yes, that's right, in the middle of the exams...

Yeah - I couldnt believe when i heard that Donál.

Just received an e-mail from the SL, sent to undergrads:

NOTICE TO STAFF AND STUDENTS

The Working Group on Modularisation and Semesterisation has been asked by
the University Council to examine the case for and against adopting a
modular course structure and/or a semester or trimester academic year
structure. A website has been set up, and information and documentation will
be posted to it as it becomes available.

In order to assess the impact of such changes on academic activity and
College life in general, the Working Group will be inviting submissions from
academic Schools and units, Deans, administrative offices and student
support services, the Students' Union and Graduate Students' Union, and
other student interests such as clubs and societies, as well as from
individual members of staff. The process of consultation will also include
open meetings/information gathering sessions with staff and students and
members of the Working Party.

The first of these sessions have been scheduled as follows:

Wednesday 17th May 2006; 11.00am-12.00pm; 2039 Walton Theatre, Arts Bldg

Thursday 18th May 2006; 2.00pm-3.00pm; 2039 Walton Theatre, Arts Bldg

Further sessions will be arranged for the autumn.

The Terms of Reference and membership of the Working Party can be viewed at http://www.tcd.ie/local/modularisation/terms.php

Ignoring the fact that everyone will be cramming next week, and that it is a terrible time for a meeting for both staff and students, and also that nothing has really been discussed/decided at the committee so far (we've had one meeting), there will be two meetings next week for the purposes of a discussion about S&M at the above dates/times. So if you somehow are in the minority of students who don't have exams soon, please come along.

And by the way, there will be two meetings in Michaelmas term so that students can actually have an input into what the hell is happening.

Stargal

I wrote back to the Senior Lecturer when I got that mail out of sheer disgust at the timing of the meetings. Are they joking? How can they expect students to play an equal part in these negotiations if they schedule them for a couple of days before exams start? Few enough students get involved in stuff like this at it is; this is a joke.

Heh. I've just replied to your e-mail Christine.

Stargal

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! (I CC'd my Angry Mail to Donal too). Unsurprisingly you're the only one that's gotten back to me so far...

Danger Bob

Wish I'd seen the angry mail.

A future member of SU Exec (I'm staying cryptic on this one) sent an angry mail too and he CC'd it to me. It was incredibly well worded and concise, fully summing up all the problems with consultation at this time of year. Only problem was that he referred to the Senior Lecturer as Ms.Anderson....:D

Still though, it's a bit of a shame. Fair play to Donal for convincing them to do Michaelmas consultations as well. I know everyone's desperate for all the study time they can get but if you all schedule a study break for those times on Wednesday and Thursday, it could be interesting. (Realises the stupidity of what he just said.)

Could it be an idea for people viewing this link to post up any serious questions/concerns regarding the process or the results and ask that their President/Education Officer/Faculty Convenor might put them forward at the meeting in case they can't attend? In fairness, it would be hoped that these representatives would be there so they should be used appropriately.

For example, if someone posts that they're an Arts student and they'd like to know how the new system might affect courses in this faculty, then that question could be passed on to the Arts and Humanities Convenor and she could ask it on the poster's behalf. Or something like that could probably be worked anyway.

P.S. Sorry for hacking it up again. Just think it's important that we put our concerns out there from the start, as, I'm guessing, do the others who have posted here.

Indeed. By the way, this will be going up on the website in post #1, but the decision is planned to come to Board in Hilary Term 2007. That will mean that if you're in Senior Freshman at the moment, your Senior Sophistor year may be semesterised/modularised etc.

Oh, and Rob! Your post wasn't hacky! You're just getting paranoid now

Stargal

Wish I'd seen the angry mail

Wasn't that exciting to be honest Rob!

I'm not with the doomsayers on this one - I think modularisation could work well. There are a lot of departments that aren't well run/organised (*waves over to the Sociology department*) and this could kick them into shape

stargal

stargal wrote:

There are a lot of departments that aren't well run/organised (*waves over to the Sociology department*) and this could kick them into shape

Wasn't that the point of restructuring :rolleyes:

Crash

I shall hopefully be there on wednesday - kinda just want to wander along and ask wtf they were thinking putting them on at this time. gits.

Awayindahils

Danger Bob wrote:

P.S. Sorry for hacking it up again. Just think it's important that we put our concerns out there from the start, as, I'm guessing, do the others who have posted here.

Rob hackiness ooses out of this board and not from you.

i think i'll head along on thursday and see what the story is or what theyre telling us the story is. i've got a few questions to which there will hopefully be some convincing answers, as oppose dot the standard non answer. i mena what is it with the non answer answer. its not an arts paper..anyway shall have more to say in a day or two.

Ron DMC

&#231 wrote: »

I shall hopefully be there on wednesday

Awayindahils wrote:

i think i'll head along on thursday

See yous there.

Awayindahils

some people just can't get enough.

SOL

Anyone considered that pushing into september would mean losing freshers week and be seriously bad for societies?

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

SOL wrote:

Anyone considered that pushing into september would mean losing freshers week and be seriously bad for societies?

Why's that?

shay_562

Why's that?

If I'm understanding SOL right: without Fresher's Week, societies would lose a huge proportion of their members, since a lot of people will join up with dozens of societies during that week even if they never become active in more than a few (...hils...). We lose that, the societies lose money, a vital part of college social life is damaged. Maybe not a particularly compelling argument to someone who isn't hugely invested in the society side of college, but a point to be raised nonetheless.

Pet

Fresher's week can always be moved...

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

shay_562 wrote:

If I'm understanding SOL right: without Fresher's Week, societies would lose a huge proportion of their members, since a lot of people will join up with dozens of societies during that week even if they never become active in more than a few (...hils...). We lose that, the societies lose money, a vital part of college social life is damaged. Maybe not a particularly compelling argument to someone who isn't hugely invested in the society side of college, but a point to be raised nonetheless.

No, I understand why Fresher's Week would mean societies losing members, but I don't understand why an earlier starting date would mean no Fresher's week..

cuckoo

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote:

No, I understand why Fresher's Week would mean societies losing members, but I don't understand why an earlier starting date would mean no Fresher's week..

I don't see College getting rid of Fresher's week, it's a handy week for all the orientation stuff for incoming first years.

Crash

IIRC the early starting time will leave too little time between the CAO offers and acceptance etc., and the start of college, for there actually to be a freshers week.

I'm totally against the idea of losing freshers week personally - its one of the most fun and social times of the year (more so when you're not in first year:P) and i'd be very pissed off to see it go. otherwise we'll just become a dry ****e college like.

cuckoo

When do UCD, and other colleges, start their year?

I don't think that the needs of socs and sports clubs should really be considered that much when it comes to the relative merits of S and M, i think the unique strength of soc life in TCD is due to societies having rooms.

If a society is putting on good events, then it will thrive.

misefreisin

yeh if i'm not mistaken, ucd fresher's week is usually the second week of their lecture term. so..would an earlier start for us mean the same thing? lectures during fresher's week? MADNESS!

Agent Smith

cuckoo wrote:

When do UCD, and other colleges, start their year?

I don't think that the needs of socs and sports clubs should really be considered that much when it comes to the relative merits of S and M,

If a society is putting on good events, then it will thrive.

i read that Completely diffrently for a second...

[/soc hack mode]
Freshers week is vital for all Societies and sports club, Membership numbers are based solely on membership from that week, and from a few other events ( e.g, You need to be a Member of SFSOC to borrow books and DVD's, for example) People Dont join a society otherwise, would you join a society mid year? other then to go to an even or screening or trip?

Our freshers week starts 11th of september this year in NUIG!Although Paddy Reilly has sucked all the fun out of it.He was still a good president!

gilroyb

I think UCD have it in week 2 or 3. I know my UCD friends thought it was useless. Lectures still going on, and had spent a number of weeks in lectures with the people, so didn't make friends other than the one or two in their particular class. Freshers week in Trinity seems to encourage at least a little Ham/Arts interaction.

I'm going to be gone by the time all the fun of S&M kicks in, but the one thing about it that would really really annoy me if I was still here would be having exams just after Christmas. A number of my friends in different colleges have exams after Christmas, and it ruins their break. If it has to come in, try and make sure that Christmas break is actually a break.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

gilroyb wrote:

I'm going to be gone by the time all the fun of S&M kicks in, but the one thing about it that would really really annoy me if I was still here would be having exams just after Christmas. A number of my friends in different colleges have exams after Christmas, and it ruins their break. If it has to come in, try and make sure that Christmas break is actually a break.

Yeah, that sounds really ****. I don't know why the powers-that-be feel the need to ruin what is probably one of the better calendars out there in Irish universities...

wheresthebeef

in nursing, our course is too packed into a small amount of weeks. I think we would definitely welcome semesterisation or modularisation to ease the workload and make things more organised. Trinitys academic year is too short anyway.
we had lectures during freshers week in first year, and from second year onwards we begin lectures the week before freshers week. and it is extremely horrible.
Freshers week can be moved, but I agree that it will probably have some impact on the quality and quantity of events at freshers week and soc and club activity.

SOL

SOL wrote:

Anyone considered that pushing into september would mean losing freshers week and be seriously bad for societies?

There is a rep from the SU, GSU, the Senior Tutor, the Dean of Students, and a rep from the Clubs and Societies on the working group so I assume it will definitely be thought of.

Nietzschean

why would moving terms mean the end of freshers week? not just move it around a bit? not like it'd make a huge difference to most people......

These have been sent to class reps, and should be up on the SU website shortly. They are only my notes, and are of course biased, but should still give you some indication about what has happened so far.

Oh! And I haven't identified any of the people who raised points, bar the Senior Lecturer. I'll leave that to the person writing the minutes.

europerson

One of the "reasons" being cited for semesterisation is that our current term structure is harming our ability to co-operate on research projects with semesterised universities. I've never heard anything quite so ridiculous in all the college policy discussions I've heard over the last couple of years. The proposition that our academic calendar is hindering research capabilities is just daft.

I think our system of terms with reading weeks and continual assessment is a very good system and is much more student-friendly than having semesters.

Nietzschean

not many of us have continual assessment though...if we had it in all courses i'd be happy with the way it is. But as pointed out it appears random at best....

cuckoo

europerson wrote:

I think our system of terms with reading weeks and continual assessment is a very good system and is much more student-friendly than having semesters.

AFAIK, the only course with reading weeks is BESS. And, as Nietschean said, continual assessment levels vary hugely across college.

I'd welcome some form of modularisation with open arms, at the moment i'm looking over my notes for a course that finished at the start of Dec. Given the choice, i'd prefer to have been examined on it last Dec/Jan then now.

Crash

aye i have a few like that - my only issue is that, like everything else in this college, they'll take a good idea, and bollocks it up.

europerson

I didn't think BESS was the only course with reading weeks: sorry! Just out of interest, here's the UCD academic calendar.

SOL

cuckoo wrote:

When do UCD, and other colleges, start their year?

I don't think that the needs of socs and sports clubs should really be considered that much when it comes to the relative merits of S and M, i think the unique strength of soc life in TCD is due to societies having rooms.

If a society is putting on good events, then it will thrive.

Firstly what crash said, we lose freshers week because the CAO isn't out on time.

Secondly, i think that given the level of importance of clubs and socs in any university they clearly warrant attention. TCD isn;t a degree factory, being an undergrad isn;t solely about lectures.

Thirdly, it is not only the rooms that make societies thrive it is the ability to continually get interested parties involved. Clearly to be able to put on events there has to be awareness before hand of the societies. I think without fw the socs lose alot of their sell.
As well as that the ammount of revenue that socs would lose from not having FW would shut allot of small societies down or cause them to be more dependant on CSC. (Long live the GMB) but seriously, It would make recruitment for small societies almost impossible because you would have to organise it beside lectures....

Unless freshers week was a week off a few weeks in and was renamed societies week for all years and there were no lectures... now there IS an idea...

Donal, what do you think?

ApeXaviour

europerson wrote:

One of the "reasons" being cited for semesterisation is that our current term structure is harming our ability to co-operate on research projects with semesterised universities. I've never heard anything quite so ridiculous in all the college policy discussions I've heard over the last couple of years. The proposition that our academic calendar is hindering research capabilities is just daft.

Agreed 100%. I think the head of our school has said that he's never once, in nearly 30 years, heard of the slightest inconvenience to cooperative research caused by our calender. I'd imagine these sentiments are reflected by other research schools too.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't research students and staff work right the way through the year anyway? I mean bar normal working holidays and all that. So how would the way the calendar is affect them in the slightest?