N7 Naas Road Widening

darkman2

Chris_533976 wrote:

mmm far as Im concerned its not freeflow unless there are NO traffic lights AT ALL. If they call it freeflow officially its a cop out and a lie.

Anyone got any montages/pics/whatever of the layout theyre gonna build? I think there was one in a pdf file somewhere, but it was a HUGE download.

Im refering to the N4 which will be entirely freeflow with no traffic lights as has been stated above.

jmkennedyie

Chris_533976 wrote:

<snip/>
Anyone got any montages/pics/whatever of the layout theyre gonna build? I think there was one in a pdf file somewhere, but it was a HUGE download.

A thread on Archiseek on which someone has kindly uploaded photomontages - see the messages August 11th:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4209&referrerid=2554

The full docs from SDCC:
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=1741

dr zoidberg

N7/M50 interchange

darkman2

Ppl keep commenting on the N4/N7 interchanges. But the N3 interchange is probrably the biggest upgrade from an engineering veiwpoint. Its certainly going to be the most difficult. The M1 is going to get flyovers too.

Chris_533976

Ah ok, was muddled between the N4 and N7.

Yeah N4 will be freeflow, but me (and others on here) still think its absolutely NUTS (and an Irish solution to an Irish problem) to leave some traffic lights on the Red Cow at the end of the upgrade.

darkman2

Chris_533976 wrote:

Ah ok, was muddled between the N4 and N7.

Yeah N4 will be freeflow, but me (and others on here) still think its absolutely NUTS (and an Irish solution to an Irish problem) to leave some traffic lights on the Red Cow at the end of the upgrade.

Most definatley an Irish solutions. We build too small:(

mysterious

Bump......

The new Gantries on the Naas road are awesome! I have to say.

The new slips for Rathcoole (poitin still) and Newcastle are absalutley stupid, when there is an interchange only 200 yards further down. It's actually dangerous and not needed. Motorway status would have been actually cheaper. There is a lot of interchanges and side road present to alllow greater speed and less on ramps!!! the Steeltowns interchanges are very sharp accesses given the lenght of the slips, It's a dilberate attempt to have on and off ramped traffic to almost stop when on approach to the N7.... I have no idea why they have done this.

But overall very impressed the quality and even views around the new road. Quite pleasant and safe.:)

murphaph

mysterious wrote:

The new Gantries on the Naas road are awesome! I have to say.

How do you mean? I was on the road a few weeks ago and I thought they looked like they were going to be more of the same incorrect false lane drop nonsense that we've seen elsewhere. Are they in fact correct or what?

mysterious

murphaph wrote:

How do you mean? I was on the road a few weeks ago and I thought they looked like they were going to be more of the same incorrect false lane drop nonsense that we've seen elsewhere. Are they in fact correct or what?

Well they look like the typical ones you see accross Europe. They are well sporred (obviously) and they are more detailed than any gantry I've seen.

My point is it's well displayed especially even if your unfamilar with the road. It mentions N7 (N8-N9) last destination and the nearest destination. which is standard accross Europe.

Aslo why is the Jonstown bride a dual carrigway and Kill not so. Kill is a bigger town and has more traffic filtering off the Naas road, as most would remember that the Kill lights was much more conjested than the Johnstown lights...

DerekP11

mysterious wrote:

Aslo why is the Jonstown bride a dual carrigway and Kill not so. Kill is a bigger town and has more traffic filtering off the Naas road, as most would remember that the Kill lights was much more conjested than the Johnstown lights...

Not entirely sure what you're getting at, but the Johnstown interchange provides exists for, Kill, Johnstown, Goffs and a minor road to Naas and Palmerston Golf Clubs, and ultimately Sallins. The southbound exist ramp is to cater for traffic entering roads to Kill, Johnstown and roads on the other side that serve Plamerston Golf Club, Goffs and then the minor road to Naas Golf Club and Sallins. The southbound exit ramp at the Kill interchange is a standard single lane with dual lane function at the roundabout and provides access to Kill, Kilteel (road that runs back to part of the Castlewarden interchange and won't see much traffic) and the Straffan road after you cross the flyover. I can see the logic in this, but only because Im a local.

As for the debate on whether new dual carraigeways are designated M or N, this actually relies on the following criteria.

1. That the existing N route is left available for agricultural vehicles and L-Drivers. This is not the case in the N7 upgrade and dictates its design.

2. That the design is done to a very strict standard in accordance with the point made above.

Let me set out some examples of why HQDC is fashionable in Ireland as opposed to straightforward motorway.

The current inter urban road programme, when completed, will be a mixture of Motorway and HQDC on all routes. I agree its rediculous and confusing to anyone looking at a completed map. The reasons are as follows;

We apply standards to Motorways that are actually too strict. I agree with previous posters that Motorways in other European countries have similar or identical designs to what we in Ireland term a HQDC. But the rules of a Motorway forbid any agricultural traffic and L-Drivers.(its a huge issue) However our new inter urban routes are seperate from our existing National Primary routes, so it comes back to a question of whether the reason for HQDC is for Farmers or very strict Motorway design specs that would cost more money. Ive seen Motorways in Spain (autopiste) and Italy (autostrada) that make the N11 south of Bray look like a gold plated road. Yet the N11 is designated non motorway. Thats because it incorporated much of the previous N11 single carraigeway road on long stretches. So we see tractors, L-Drivers etc on it. Overall we are rebuilding our national primary routes, but we are not designating them fully fledged motorways due to strict rules for motorway standards and an insistance on allowing all kinds of traffic onto them.

In relation to their proposed represtation on a map. If you look at a map of Ireland, I'd draw your attention to the N25 eastbound out of Cork city. Its a motorway in my world and described on the map as a "Dual Carraigewqay with Motorway characteristics" The only example in Ireland I reckon, but a concept that could be broadened to aid any confusion in the banana republic world of Ireland.

_Kaiser_

Just a semi-related point:

Why did they not remove the cones from the 3rd lane this weekend on the southbound strech of the N7 to Naas? (I'm not even gonna get into the stupid 60kph limit that it seemed only I was paying any attention to! )
I was going to Carlow on Friday evening and was stuck in the chaos that was a result of the Oxegen festival. From what I could see the outermost lane could've easily been opened (at least temporarily) - in fact there were some chancers who tore on down it anyway.

Why does EVERYTHING have to take so long to finish in this country?? More importantly, WHY do we put up with it???
Take the ongoing works outside Dunshaughlin to add a buslane on the N3. The Navan side looks like they've finished with it for weeks, yet the lane is still closed! On the Dublin side they're busy reconfiguring it and resurfacing it on almost a daily basis (though I saw a prime example of the inefficency last week, when traffic was held up as a result of one guy spray-painting a K every few yards on the road.. followed a few minutes later by a girl adding numbers with another can of paint. Why the first guy couldn't do both is beyond me, except that naturally by employing a 2nd person it costs more! :mad:)

icdg

murphaph wrote:

How do you mean? I was on the road a few weeks ago and I thought they looked like they were going to be more of the same incorrect false lane drop nonsense that we've seen elsewhere. Are they in fact correct or what?

Nope, was on the road today and they're more of the same, false lane drops and all. For some reason I think they work slightly better on D3 though than D2, where they encourage people to use the overtaking lane as a general traffic lane, as if we need more encouragement. The wierdest one though, is at what is to become J9 (previously J7), the start of the motorway section. Because of the design of these gantries, you can't patch on them, so you have the wierd situation where you have the gantries for lanes 2 & 3 in motorway blue headed "M7" (motorway regulations not applying for about another 2km or so) while the lane 1 gantry is N-road green, but headed "R445" in completely incorrect white-on-green. (Not the first mistake on this new road with patching. They've replaced the Newlands Cross stack signs, northbound on the R113 at the N7 junction, with a sign that has "N7 (N8-N9)" written in black-on-white, something I've never seen before here.

At least they are putting route confirmation signs up after every junction. Oh and while the N7 junctions are being numbered up to J9, the M7 junctions are still signed J8-J11 (with the Naas interchange now signed J9 southbound and J7 northbound...)

murphaph

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Why does EVERYTHING have to take so long to finish in this country?? More importantly, WHY do we put up with it???

Normally I'd agree with the above but in fact the N7 scheme has progressed very speedily indeed. An online upgrade of a road like that is actually much more demanding than a new offline build, as you have to keep a very busy dual carriageway open, right through a building site.

mysterious

icdg wrote:

Nope, was on the road today and they're more of the same, false lane drops and all. For some reason I think they work slightly better on D3 though than D2, where they encourage people to use the overtaking lane as a general traffic lane, as if we need more encouragement. The wierdest one though, is at what is to become J9 (previously J7), the start of the motorway section. Because of the design of these gantries, you can't patch on them, so you have the wierd situation where you have the gantries for lanes 2 & 3 in motorway blue headed "M7" (motorway regulations not applying for about another 2km or so) while the lane 1 gantry is N-road green, but headed "R445" in completely incorrect white-on-green. (Not the first mistake on this new road with patching. They've replaced the Newlands Cross stack signs, northbound on the R113 at the N7 junction, with a sign that has "N7 (N8-N9)" written in black-on-white, something I've never seen before here.

At least they are putting route confirmation signs up after every junction. Oh and while the N7 junctions are being numbered up to J9, the M7 junctions are still signed J8-J11 (with the Naas interchange now signed J9 southbound and J7 northbound...)

What will happen to the route numbering when the M7 and M8 split?

Victor

DerekP11 wrote:

As for the debate on whether new dual carraigeways are designated M or N, this actually relies on the following criteria.

1. That the existing N route is left available for agricultural vehicles and L-Drivers. This is not the case in the N7 upgrade and dictates its design.

2. That the design is done to a very strict standard in accordance with the point made above.

For most of the Naas road, there is in effect three carriageways, east, west and local. This could easily have been altered to a four carriageway layout with only occassional interchanges for about the same price.

Chris_533976

icdg wrote:

At least they are putting route confirmation signs up after every junction. Oh and while the N7 junctions are being numbered up to J9, the M7 junctions are still signed J8-J11 (with the Naas interchange now signed J9 southbound and J7 northbound...)

Only in Ireland :rolleyes:

corktina

Victor wrote:

For most of the Naas road, there is in effect three carriageways, east, west and local. This could easily have been altered to a four carriageway layout with only occassional interchanges for about the same price.

why? do you think through traffic is more important than local traffic? Local traffic needs more than just an occasional interchange......dont forget people live there.....

D'Peoples Voice

DerekP11 wrote:

Ive seen Motorways in Spain (autopiste) and Italy (autostrada) that make the N11 south of Bray look like a gold plated road.

Did you notice how in Italy motorway signs are in green, but national road signs are in blue. It's very confusing coming from Ireland where our motorway signs are in blue and national road signs are in green!
Also, did you notice how south dublin coco use simialr methods of overhead gantries as France, while dun laoighaire rathdown use similar methods as Italy.

I see on the M50 northbound, just before the upramp from the ballinteer junction merges with the M50, there is a sign on the left giving a distance to Cork and saying N8 but not giving any such distance to Limerick or it's number N7! I'd say the tourists must love Dun laoighaire rathdown coco. You'd be a while driving along the M50 looking for the N8 turnoff.
It's a complete contrast to those coming southbound from fingal on the M50, their coco gives Limerick N7 only. Welcome to Ireland

road_high

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Just a semi-related point:

Why did they not remove the cones from the 3rd lane this weekend on the southbound strech of the N7 to Naas? (I'm not even gonna get into the stupid 60kph limit that it seemed only I was paying any attention to! )
I was going to Carlow on Friday evening and was stuck in the chaos that was a result of the Oxegen festival. From what I could see the outermost lane could've easily been opened (at least temporarily) - in fact there were some chancers who tore on down it anyway.

Why does EVERYTHING have to take so long to finish in this country?? More importantly, WHY do we put up with it???
Take the ongoing works outside Dunshaughlin to add a buslane on the N3. The Navan side looks like they've finished with it for weeks, yet the lane is still closed! On the Dublin side they're busy reconfiguring it and resurfacing it on almost a daily basis (though I saw a prime example of the inefficency last week, when traffic was held up as a result of one guy spray-painting a K every few yards on the road.. followed a few minutes later by a girl adding numbers with another can of paint. Why the first guy couldn't do both is beyond me, except that naturally by employing a 2nd person it costs more! :mad:)

Couldn't agree more it's ridiculous the snails pace infrastructure is built in this country- nearly as frustrating as the traffic chaos and poor roads themselves.

It's a joke- the govt are always putting political spin on how great the economy is thanks their wonderful leadership but yet they can't built the eseenetials like a decent and safe road and rail network,
I mean on a project like the N7- arguably the busiest and most NB road in the country, they should be working 24 hours on it- this happens in most other countries.The extra cost is easily made up in the savings to business from less gridlock.

mysterious

Nope they won't remove any bollards until fat face cullen cuts the ribbon to make ultra official.. eh right.


I asked the question earlier... what will the jct. numbering be after the split of the M7/M8 i.e the M7 will continue on as follows and the M8 will start from Jnct. 1 I just hope they don't make it more confusing!

Actually The HQDC is not up to motorway spec anyway. The slips almost right angled except from Kill and Johnstown. They made a pointless triangle slips at the Poitin still... with the extra traffic ie the N7 does not need local traffic making rat trip going onto the N7 here. Fuk it use the Rathcoole interchange.

Victor is right about few interchanges. There is far to many luxurious side and local roads with every interchange accessed to one another!!

if it were motorway it would be in fact cheaper.:rolleyes:

jkgvfg

They've updated the site today with a progress report. Looks like the whole route won't be opening until 28th of July.

D'Peoples Voice

mysterious wrote:

They made a pointless triangle slips at the Poitin still... with the extra traffic ie the N7 does not need local traffic making rat trip going onto the N7 here. Fuk it use the Rathcoole interchange.

From what i hear, the entrance at the Poitin Stil may be SHUT when the Rathcoole Ring road is finished!
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=4148
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/images/roads/Sheet1_OverallLayout.jpg

Seeing as how this ring road has yet to be STARTED, that may be a while yet. the village if memory serves me correctly cannot handle all the traffic coming and leaving from the one side.

icdg

mysterious wrote:

Nope they won't remove any bollards until fat face cullen cuts the ribbon to make ultra official.. eh right.


I asked the question earlier... what will the jct. numbering be after the split of the M7/M8 i.e the M7 will continue on as follows and the M8 will start from Jnct. 1 I just hope they don't make it more confusing!

Usual UK system is to number the junctions on the spur as if it were a new motorway (from Junction 1), and the N9 EIS seems to indicate this will happen here too.

spacetweek

jkgvfg wrote:

They've updated the site today with a progress report. Looks like the whole route won't be opening until 28th of July.

What?? That's amazingly fast. According to that site they only started it in Nov 2004, it will only have taken 21 months. I think the 60k limit is stupidly low though.

As for the parallel local roads alongside many stretches, these are so that local traffic doesn't have to use the N7 for short journeys. If these were completed the whole way alongside, you could designate motorway if you enlarged some of the tighter slips - they're probably thinking ahead to this. Though, they probably should just have done that in the first place. And why does Goffs get its own dedicated entrance?

As for the signage, I only saw half-gantries up when I was on it heading for Bob Dylan a few weeks ago, and they looked great.

Victor

corktina wrote:

why? do you think through traffic is more important than local traffic? Local traffic needs more than just an occasional interchange......dont forget people live there.....

They don't need about 8 interchanges from Nass to Saggart. Also I said 4 carriageways, there would still be a (non-motorway) road from Naas to Dublin.

Something like this, just not so many lanes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:401atDVP.jpg

murphaph

Victor wrote:

They don't need about 8 interchanges from Nass to Saggart. Also I said 4 carriageways, there would still be a (non-motorway) road from Naas to Dublin.

Something like this, just not so many lanes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:401atDVP.jpg

Will there though? I know there are parallel access roads going in from Naas Maudlins interchange (the big ball) to Johnstown and on to Kill, but I don't think it'll mean a continuous stretch of non-motorway road to Rathcoole. I definitely think the bits with a parallel road should be upgraded to motorway however, but I don't think it'd be possible to go motorway from Rathcoole all the way to Naas.

Chris_533976

Victor wrote:

They don't need about 8 interchanges from Nass to Saggart. Also I said 4 carriageways, there would still be a (non-motorway) road from Naas to Dublin.

Something like this, just not so many lanes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:401atDVP.jpg

I read the article connected with that - interesting.

The Ontario government is also planning to widen the Missisauga stretch from 6 lanes to 12 lanes from the 403-410 interchange to the Credit River, and 10 lanes to Mississauga Road.

That interested me especially. They're doubling the capacity of the road, future proofing it. Technically they should do much more to the M50 than just stick one more lane there. They should stick two. I know theres issues with space, but whatever you say, they're doing a cheapy job on it, and it'll be congested onces the upgrade is done. Then they'll let everyone suffer for a few years before trying to stuff another lane in there.

mackerski

Chris_533976 wrote:

Technically they should do much more to the M50 than just stick one more lane there. They should stick two.

They are adding two. It's all in the plan.

Dermot

Chris_533976

Nah I by one I meant going from 2 lanes to 3 on each side. So technically 2 extra lanes. But they should put 2 extra lanes on EACH side while they have it all dug up.

murphaph

Chris_533976 wrote:

Nah I by one I meant going from 2 lanes to 3 on each side. So technically 2 extra lanes. But they should put 2 extra lanes on EACH side while they have it all dug up.

They are, sort of.