[Article] New fleet of coaches has no access by wheelchair

neilled

parsi wrote:

Indeed. But why shouldn't private companies be required to provide the same services...?

Indeed they should. But until legislation is in place they can't be forced. Neverthelesss there should be pressure on CIE to become acessable. We pay for it - we don't pay for private operators.

John R

neilled wrote:

The side door solution was exactly what i had in mind - most private coaches i've been on seem to have a side exit on the right hand side, sometimes with a toilet. Bus Eireanns coaches don't seem to have this or if they do the side door is never used even if the bus is full. I thought that would be an ideal place to whack a lift.

Those doors are emergency exits which are required by law to be provided. They are too narrow for wheelchairs but even if they weren't putting a wheelchair lift there would block them which is illegal.

The only ones to use them for regular passenger access is Aircoach as they have a right side loading stop at the Airport, on their coaches these doors are wider than normal as they are designed for regular use.

Retro-fitting wheelchair lifts into regular coaches isn't going to happen. They are not suitable for service bus use for the reasons I stated above.

neilled

John R wrote:

Those doors are emergency exits which are required by law to be provided. They are too narrow for wheelchairs but even if they weren't putting a wheelchair lift there would block them which is illegal.

The only ones to use them for regular passenger access is Aircoach as they have a right side loading stop at the Airport, on their coaches these doors are wider than normal as they are designed for regular use.

Retro-fitting wheelchair lifts into regular coaches isn't going to happen. They are not suitable for service bus use for the reasons I stated above.

Required by law? Thats odd as i've seen buses in the buseirean fleet without them before!

Red Alert

Problem solved, fit two of them opposite each other. The RHS one is the emergency exit as required by law, and the left hand one contains the lift.

Many coaches have an emergency exit beside the rear seat. If they also have the middle door it's often intended for use internationally - you'll see plenty of European coaches in Nassau street with the middle door open.

Rev Hellfire

God damned disabled people. Its so unfair to the rest of us, a wheelchair takes up the space of 3 or 4 normal people. And they never use public transport anyway.

Then again maybe they dont use public transport that often due to the fact that its not accessible.

BuffyBot

Then again maybe they dont use public transport that often due to the fact that its not accessible.

Public Transport accessibility has come leaps and bounds from what is used to be and is improving all the time, so playing that card doesn't really wash, and is probably a bit unfair. The point being made is that there may not be accessible vehicles suitable for Bus Eireann's operational needs.

Now, if BE had a choice of vehicles available, and was refusing flat out to purchase them because of aesthetic reasons, then yes it would be an issue.
However it seems that BE, I think quite rightly, don't want to spend the money on buses which may not be suitable for their needs and that they aren't going to get operational value from simply to avoid being labelled discriminatory.

So, should they buy unsuitable vehicles just to appease claims that they are discriminating against the disabled? Not very sound business sense.

lostexpectation

Bogger77 wrote:

I lived for 2 years on the 46A route, with the lovely ramps/kneeling buses. I cannot recall ever seeing a disabled person, in the sense of wheelchair bound person ever use the route. I would have been travelling in non rush hour times (after 9oc in the evenings). And I have travelled on routes all over Dublin, and it's rare that a person other than a mother+push chair used low floor capabilities, while I was on board.

And you gonna to tell me you haven't seen older persons struggle up the steps of 46a us now have you?

Rev Hellfire

BuffyBot wrote:

So, should they buy unsuitable vehicles just to appease claims that they are discriminating against the disabled? Not very sound business sense.

From my understanding the issue isn't the suitability of the buses, but rather the modifications which are required which would reduce the carrying capacity of the bus. And while it can be argued that a private service should put profit before people the same is not true of a semi state company whose remit is to provide public transport for the citizens of this isle. All of them, not just the privileged ones with two working legs.

BuffyBot

From an RTE article:

They say wheelchair accessible coaches have been under consideration by the company for some time now.

They are examining the possibility of acquiring accessible coaches on a trial basis.

But the company pointed out that the design solutions proposed to date have not been suitable from an operational, safety or customer point of view.

Nothing to do with privileging those "with two working legs".

Rev Hellfire

But yet the manufacturer of the very buses they are acquiring offer a coach which is accommodating for those whose mobility is impaired. It’s hard to believe that the coach offered would be unsafe, which leaves operation and customer point of view.
And I suspect the customer point of view is volume of customers. These coaches do by there nature carry less bodies.
So I suspect you’re right it’s ‘Nothing to do with privileging those with two working legs’. But rather ensuring suitable numbers of those with ‘two working legs’ can be carried.

John R

neilled wrote:

Required by law? Thats odd as i've seen buses in the buseirean fleet without them before!

You might not have seen them but they were there. Every bus/coach ever operated by CIE or anyone else in Ireland has an emergency exit at the rear drivers side, or in a few cases at the back of the bus similar to US schoolbuses. On rear-engined buses it is a high-level door rather than the flooe level ones you are thinking of.

shltter

Rev Hellfire wrote:

From my understanding the issue isn't the suitability of the buses, but rather the modifications which are required which would reduce the carrying capacity of the bus. And while it can be argued that a private service should put profit before people the same is not true of a semi state company whose remit is to provide public transport for the citizens of this isle. All of them, not just the privileged ones with two working legs.

The problem here is that BE are being told to operate on a commercial basis so they made a decision that is commercially sound they chose the bus that could accommodate more people.

What we need is a level playing field if disabled access is the correct way to go it should be the correct way for everyone to go.
We cannot saddle BE with extra costs and then throw our hands up and say they should just compete with the private operator.

I think anybody bringing in new buses to operate on routes licensed by the state should have disabled access whether they are a private company or a semi state.

Victor

Bogger77 wrote:

I lived for 2 years on the 46A route, with the lovely ramps/kneeling buses. I cannot recall ever seeing a disabled person, in the sense of wheelchair bound person ever use the route.

Dublin Bus estimate that 20-25% of their passengers have some mobility problem, whether thats a pram, shopping, athritis, etc.

Having a low floor bus benefits everyone, including the bus company as people can board more easily and faster.

However busses and coaches are different beasts.

Bogger77

Victor wrote:

Dublin Bus estimate that 20-25% of their passengers have some mobility problem, whether thats a pram, shopping, athritis, etc.

Having a low floor bus benefits everyone, including the bus company as people can board more easily and faster.

However busses and coaches are different beasts.

I don't think you can count shopping as a disibility.

I'm over here in Madrid, and less than 10% of the metro stations I've been in are acessible, zero lifts in most. Only new stations.

The city bus fleet is low floor buses, but I've not seen any accessible coaches. The buses here suffer from a major problem, the stops are not accessible, the buses often stop in middle of road, meaning no matter how low it's floor, its an issue for people to get on.

based on my experiences here, I'd rather have to deal with Dublins public transport than Madrids, if I was disabled. Being relatively able bodied, the network here seems to go everywhere and the 10 metro lines are well linked up, if a little hot.

Victor

20-25% of their passengers have some mobility problem

Bogger77 wrote:

I don't think you can count shopping as a disibility [sic]

Where did I mention the word disability?