M1 an excellent road

darkman2

Hi, travelled most of the M1 to Dundalk recently and its a truly excellent road rivalling anything in the UK or on the continent. However Im somewhat perplexed as to why its not 3 lanes at the very least as far as Balbriggan. The new VMS sigange near the Airport is an improvement which hopefully will be rolled out across the new Motorway system as quicly as possible post M50 upgrade. Also alot of construction going on around the environs of the motorway which looks set to experience US stlye sprawl on a par with the M50 once again exacerbating an already underpressure mainline. A case of building too small once again?

Benster

Yes, I'd have to agree. 3 lanes would have been good planning because the volume of traffic at peak times is scary on the parts around the M50.

They got it a bit more correct when they put 3 lanes on the new N2 coming into the M50 roundabout. The volume of traffic doesn't fill it at the moment, but again, with all the new housing going up in Meath, it soon will.

Now all the Gards need to do is get out and educate foolish drivers not to sit in the outer-most lane for their entire journey...:rolleyes:

B.

darkman2

Benster wrote:

Yes, I'd have to agree. 3 lanes would have been good planning because the volume of traffic at peak times is scary on the parts around the M50.

They got it a bit more correct when they put 3 lanes on the new N2 coming into the M50 roundabout. The volume of traffic doesn't fill it at the moment, but again, with all the new housing going up in Meath, it soon will.

Now all the Gards need to do is get out and educate foolish drivers not to sit in the outer-most lane for their entire journey...:rolleyes:

B.

Yes, another concern I have is the rather stupid situation now of having one lane each way on the N1 after the tunnel going toward Dublin. That just annoys me. You wouldnt see that in a despot African state:mad: Also the signage for the tunnel. I noticed some VMS on the approach but I can see this turning confusing for tourists. Hopefully they make the signage clearly visible.

Also noted construction of what looks like a 6 or 7 storey hotel right beside the completely inadequate balbriggan interchange. Surely freeflow interchanges would have made more common sense.

The M50 upgrade should improve the flow aswell at that dreadful M50 roundabout with the M1.

murphaph

The M1 was designed and built with widening to D3M in mind, note the over-width bridges. The M50 was too, in fairness.

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

The M1 was designed and built with widening to D3M in mind, note the over-width bridges. The M50 was too, in fairness.

Yes I know that but why not just use their braincells and do it the first time:rolleyes:

Actually should add to that there actually is a new three lane section (the first on a motorway in the republic:D ) between the DPT and M50 for all of 1km:mad:

A Dub in Glasgo

darkman2 wrote:

Hi, travelled most of the M1 to Dundalk recently and its a truly excellent road rivalling anything in the UK or on the continent.

Yes it is an excellent improvement over what was there originally. I have done the Belfast to Dublin journey about 6 times now and there was hardly any traffic on the M1 for most of the journey. I don't think it is good enough to rival what I travel on in Britain. It is tolled, it has only 2 lanes and there are no services (AFAIR).

darkman2

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Yes it is an excellent improvement over what was there originally. I have done the Belfast to Dublin journey about 6 times now and there was hardly any traffic on the M1 for most of the journey. I don't think it is good enough to rival what I travel on in Britain. It is tolled, it has only 2 lanes and there are no services (AFAIR).

I dont rank a road on the number of lanes it has, although in this case it should be 3 at least as far as Balbriggan. Services are about to be added and I can forgive the toll as long as the motorway is maintained to its present standard which as ive said is excellent. The port tunnel will improve acces further although it is to be labelled M50. Ive travelleved a fair few motorways in the UK and from my point of view its well up to scratch. The addition of flyovers at the M50 interchange should enhance its status as one of Europes best roads. A beautiful drive:)

Yes I'd agree that the M1 is fantastic.
the fact that you can drive on mostly new dual carriage way now from the Beehive in Wicklow to the border is fantastic.

I've been on the N4 out across the new M4 a couple of times recently and thats absolutely fantastic aswell.

In fact I drove from Arklow to Kilbeggan in westmeath last saturday and averaged 71mph for the entire trip that was non stop, there wasnt even a delay on the slip road from the m50 down to the N4.

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

Yes I know that but why not just use their braincells and do it the first time:rolleyes:

Because then you'd needlessly (and expensively) have to maintain acres of additional tarmac even though the road doesn't warrant anything more than D2M based on current (and forseeable future) traffic flows. The main advantage of any dual carriageway with 2 lanes each side or above is the ability to pass in safety. Most Scottish motorway kilometres are also D2M, certainly the majority of rural stretches.

Pfungstadter

The M1 is wide enough for three lane except for the dunleer section. It was built like the original M4, Narrow. Great drive!!

I agree with the toll on the M1 too, The road is used more by the NI economy than the Republics

Also it will try to slow the spread of Dublin north of Droghedh. Although with the mere existance of the road it is inevitable that Belfast will soon be a suburb;)

darkman2

Pfungstadter wrote:

The M1 is wide enough for three lane except for the dunleer section. It was built like the original M4, Narrow. Great drive!!

I agree with the toll on the M1 too, The road is used more by the NI economy than the Republics

Also it will try to slow the spread of Dublin north of Droghedh. Although with the mere existance of the road it is inevitable that Belfast will soon be a suburb;)

hmmmm solution to the problems up there. Just make Belfast one big suburb of our city:D

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

Because then you'd needlessly (and expensively) have to maintain acres of additional tarmac even though the road doesn't warrant anything more than D2M based on current (and forseeable future) traffic flows. The main advantage of any dual carriageway with 2 lanes each side or above is the ability to pass in safety. Most Scottish motorway kilometres are also D2M, certainly the majority of rural stretches.

Hi murphaph

I agree for parts of the Mway however I witness the traffic from Donabate every second day and it is very heavy indeed. In fact I could be forgiven for thinking that there should be four lanes each way. The section beyond is first class simply because it does its job. Getting ppl home fast and safe.:)

Isnt it cheaper then cutting the grass in the median every month? Inevitably the upgrade of this road will be far more expensive then had they done it in the first place.

Victor

darkman2 wrote:

Actually should add to that there actually is a new three lane section (the first on a motorway in the republic:D ) between the DPT and M50 for all of 1km:mad:

Actually there is a four lane section on the M1 from the M50 to the airport.

darkman2 wrote:

Yes, another concern I have is the rather stupid situation now of having one lane each way on the N1 after the tunnel going toward Dublin. That just annoys me. You wouldnt see that in a despot African state:mad:

No, on the surface it is one lane northbound, two lanes southbound. In the tunnel its two lanes either way.

Also the signage for the tunnel.

What about it?

Also noted construction of what looks like a 6 or 7 storey hotel right beside the completely inadequate balbriggan interchange. Surely freeflow interchanges would have made more common sense.

Balbrigan has 3 interchanges, the hotel is probably at the service area.

ADIG, the is meant to be some services at the new interchange for Swords. Apparently there is something like 12 proposals from developers for service areas on the M1.

darkman2 wrote:

Yes I know that but why not just use their braincells and do it the first time:rolleyes:

Actually should add to that there actually is a new three lane section (the first on a motorway in the republic:D ) between the DPT and M50 for all of 1km:mad:

Building the third lane well before it is needed means resources are diverted from building elsewhere.

drdre

darkman2 wrote:

Hi, travelled most of the M1 to Dundalk recently and its a truly excellent road rivalling anything in the UK or on the continent. However Im somewhat perplexed as to why its not 3 lanes at the very least as far as Balbriggan. The new VMS sigange near the Airport is an improvement which hopefully will be rolled out across the new Motorway system as quicly as possible post M50 upgrade. Also alot of construction going on around the environs of the motorway which looks set to experience US stlye sprawl on a par with the M50 once again exacerbating an already underpressure mainline. A case of building too small once again?

yes i have to agree its an amazing road.hopefully the new m50 will be the same.the main problem on the m50 is the toll bridge that causes alot of delay other wise its ok.

A Dub in Glasgo

darkman2 wrote:

I dont rank a road on the number of lanes it has, although in this case it should be 3 at least as far as Balbriggan. Services are about to be added and I can forgive the toll as long as the motorway is maintained to its present standard which as ive said is excellent. The port tunnel will improve acces further although it is to be labelled M50. Ive travelleved a fair few motorways in the UK and from my point of view its well up to scratch. The addition of flyovers at the M50 interchange should enhance its status as one of Europes best roads. A beautiful drive:)

I agree from a purely driving POV it is excellent and that stems from 1) It is brand new and 2) there is hardly any traffic on it (from my experience). The stop for the toll and the lack of services brings it down for me.

I much prefer the driving experience on the M6 between junctions 37 and 40 through the Lake district and the M74 from Gretna to Abington. Beautiful scenery, 3 lanes and you can race the Virgin Pendolino!

darkman2

Victor wrote:

Actually there is a four lane section on the M1 from the M50 to the airport.
No, on the surface it is one lane northbound, two lanes southbound. In the tunnel its two lanes either way.
What about it?
Balbrigan has 3 interchanges, the hotel is probably at the service area.

ADIG, the is meant to be some services at the new interchange for Swords. Apparently there is something like 12 proposals from developers for service areas on the M1.

Building the third lane well before it is needed means resources are diverted from building elsewhere.

Well there weaving lanes on that section with four lanes. This is three lanes for 1 km not, apparently laid out as weaving lanes but as mainline lanes.

'What about it?' They should upgrade the interchanges with development.

I disagree about building a third lane 'before its needed'. It is already needed out to Donabate. A typical lack of forsight by the planners there.

darkman2

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I agree from a purely driving POV it is excellent and that stems from 1) It is brand new and 2) there is hardly any traffic on it (from my experience). The stop for the toll and the lack of services brings it down for me.

I much prefer the driving experience on the M6 between junctions 37 and 40 through the Lake district and the M74 from Gretna to Abington. Beautiful scenery, 3 lanes and you can race the Virgin Pendolino!

I agree about the services. This time next year they should have one of these areas in place near Balbriggan. In terms of scenery ,well its not bad now. On a Sunny day you can see the Wicklow, Mourne mountains in the distance and near the border its quite nice. I remember some very nice and scenic drives on motorways in parts of England. I suppose the M/N11 is for me the most scenic motorway standard route ive driven on here:)

darkman2

Earthman wrote:

Yes I'd agree that the M1 is fantastic.
the fact that you can drive on mostly new dual carriage way now from the Beehive in Wicklow to the border is fantastic.

I've been on the N4 out across the new M4 a couple of times recently and thats absolutely fantastic aswell.

In fact I drove from Arklow to Kilbeggan in westmeath last saturday and averaged 71mph for the entire trip that was non stop, there wasnt even a delay on the slip road from the m50 down to the N4.

Hi EM,

First time ive heard a good story about the N4/M50 slip. I always found it a disaster area:rolleyes:

nordydan

darkman2 wrote:

hmmmm solution to the problems up there. Just make Belfast one big suburb of our city:D

belfast, dublin and newry will be suburbs of downpatrick once the D6M mourne interstate to newry is complete

once completed, on a population to road standard ratio, ireland will have a fantastic road network. one josef stalin would be proud of

MT

As a Northern motorist I think it’s a great road too. Indeed, the Republic is quickly putting in place an excellent dualled network that seems to reach out to most of the country unlike the greater Belfast network up here. :rolleyes:

I think it’s a pity that they won’t continue the M1 right to the border as this would have placed more pressure (out of embarrassment) on the authorities up here to upgrade the A1 to motorway status. The D2AP which they are finishing off will be fine but it would have been nice to ensure there were no agricultural vehicles, etc. The mess they made of the A1/M1 junction should also be sorted out urgently.

It’ll be fantastic when there’s a seamless dualled road between Dublin and Belfast.

The one chink in the excellent new road network being built down there is the state of the signage. The design, installation and maintenance could really do with an overhaul. Maybe some sort of parliamentary commission could be set up to examine the failings.

Pfungstadter wrote:

I agree with the toll on the M1 too, The road is used more by the NI economy than the Republics

And Donegal’s economy seems pretty much dependant on the two routes through Fermanagh either side of the Erne. We could do with tolls on those as most of the traffic on them is from over the border.

Indeed, as Fermanagh sort of juts out in the Republic our roads have to cope with volumes of traffic that are never budgeted for based on the counties actual population. No wonder they’re all potholed.

nordydan

They are upgrading killen-beech hill to be HQD2, probably to avoid the politics of renaming the road at this stage.

ardmacha

While the M1 is a fine road for the most part, the airport interchange is not. Here you have traffic coming from one side only to the motorway, yet you have a roundabout with traffic lights. The same type of access at the start of the Naas bypass, circe 1983, was solved with a "trumpet" junction, yet in 2003 post celtic-tiger and after all of the criticism of the M50 etc they build this roundabout thing, which apparently is designed to look like an aeroplane wing!!!

If you do exit the M1 on to the roundabout from the Belfast side and go towards the airport, it is quite difficult to get across the traffic coming off the slip towards Dublin to get to the left hand lane if you are heading for the long term car park.

The whole thing will have to be redesigned.

darkman2

ardmacha wrote:

While the M1 is a fine road for the most part, the airport interchange is not. Here you have traffic coming from one side only to the motorway, yet you have a roundabout with traffic lights. The same type of access at the start of the Naas bypass, circe 1983, was solved with a "trumpet" junction, yet in 2003 post celtic-tiger and after all of the criticism of the M50 etc they build this roundabout thing, which apparently is designed to look like an aeroplane wing!!!

If you do exit the M1 on to the roundabout from the Belfast side and go towards the airport, it is quite difficult to get across the traffic coming off the slip towards Dublin to get to the left hand lane if you are heading for the long term car park.

The whole thing will have to be redesigned.

I agree about the woeful design of this interchange. Its the same mistake as was made on the M50. I reckon they will replace it with flyovers after the M50 upgrade as Airport traffic continues to grow.

murphaph

Airport traffic will never saturate that junction. It may not be pretty but it's got tonnes of capacity for what it has to do.

ardmacha

And Donegal’s economy seems pretty much dependant on the two routes through Fermanagh either side of the Erne. We could do with tolls on those as most of the traffic on them is from over the border.

If they build an M1 style road in Fermanagh, the Donegal people might not begrudge a toll of €1.50 or so .

The airport roundabout thing suggests that some other road towards Portmarnock was planned. if this is ever built, hopefully they will rebuild the whole thing.

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

Airport traffic will never saturate that junction. It may not be pretty but it's got tonnes of capacity for what it has to do.

I dont believe this to be true. It is widely known airport traffic will increase to over 35 million probrably within 20 years. This requires the best infrastructure and I think this interchange will have to be replaced tbh:)

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

I dont believe this to be true. It is widely known airport traffic will increase to over 35 million probrably within 20 years. This requires the best infrastructure and I think this interchange will have to be replaced tbh:)

35 million journeys doesn't mean 35 million cars through that one junction of course. 20% are expected to use the metro. A further percentage will take buses. Still more will take buses to the Long term carparks (which aren't all located on the east of the airfield) and others will take the R132 to and from the airport (I do and I live in D15, it's quicker than heading all the way over to the M1). They can also add a freeflow left slip to allow northbound movements thus leaving only 2 movements requiring signal control. Looking at things reasonably-the M50 Red Cow is chronically congested but it is the same type of junction, it's just the wrong junction (single stack roundabout) for that location. The airport junction is the right junction for it's location IMO. They could even prohibit northbound U turns and reduce the junction to 1 set of signals contolling a minority (southbound->airport) and a majority (airport->southbound) flow, easily managed with adptive signals.

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

35 million journeys doesn't mean 35 million cars through that one junction of course. 20% are expected to use the metro. A further percentage will take buses. Still more will take buses to the Long term carparks (which aren't all located on the east of the airfield) and others will take the R132 to and from the airport (I do and I live in D15, it's quicker than heading all the way over to the M1). They can also add a freeflow left slip to allow northbound movements thus leaving only 2 movements requiring signal control. Looking at things reasonably-the M50 Red Cow is chronically congested but it is the same type of junction, it's just the wrong junction (single stack roundabout) for that location. The airport junction is the right junction for it's location IMO. They could even prohibit northbound U turns and reduce the junction to 1 set of signals contolling a minority (southbound->airport) and a majority (airport->southbound) flow, easily managed with adptive signals.

The metro may be true, but do you seriously expect that to start construction anytime soon? Anyhow that only serves dublin and the M50 is about to be dug up so I can se them coming back to this junction to reassess the error of their ways. Any motorway built in County dublin should be 3 lanes minimum with freeflow interchanges. Lets stop slavishly following the brits for once and get things done right.

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

The metro may be true, but do you seriously expect that to start construction anytime soon? Anyhow that only serves dublin and the M50 is about to be dug up so I can se them coming back to this junction to reassess the error of their ways. Any motorway built in County dublin should be 3 lanes minimum with freeflow interchanges. Lets stop slavishly following the brits for once and get things done right.

The metro won't only serve Dublin. It will serve anyone arriving into the city by public transport wishing to travel on to the airport. The line will interchange with Sligo IC at Drumcondra (with a bit of luck), with north Wicklow trains at the same place (and quite easily Wexford trains too), with Kildare trains at Stephen's green and anyone coming from Cork etc. will have 2 changes (at Heuston and Stephens green) to the Airport. Reopening the Mullingar-Athlone stretch could allow Galway/Westport/Ballina passengers 1 change at Drumcondra. Portlaoise etc. trains could simply run throgh the Phoenix Park Tunnel to Drumcondra and on to Docklands (again, 1 change for all these folks to DUB).

So, would you like all the money ploughed into freeflowing everything (even when that junction will never approach the design limits for cheaper stacked roundabout alternatives) or would you like it spent on making sure all these trains can interchange with metro? I know what I perceive as being better value for money. You could probably extend the metro from Lissenhall to Donabate (DART) station for the price of fully freeflowing J2 of the M1.

The airport is a big destination but has anyone seriously been held up on this roundabout for more than a couple of minutes? Is it really worth tens of millions to fully freeflow it? I say no, the money could be spent in much more productive ways.

darkman2

murphaph wrote:

The metro won't only serve Dublin. It will serve anyone arriving into the city by public transport wishing to travel on to the airport. The line will interchange with Sligo IC at Drumcondra (with a bit of luck), with north Wicklow trains at the same place (and quite easily Wexford trains too), with Kildare trains at Stephen's green and anyone coming from Cork etc. will have 2 changes (at Heuston and Stephens green) to the Airport. Reopening the Mullingar-Athlone stretch could allow Galway/Westport/Ballina passengers 1 change at Drumcondra. Portlaoise etc. trains could simply run throgh the Phoenix Park Tunnel to Drumcondra and on to Docklands (again, 1 change for all these folks to DUB).

So, would you like all the money ploughed into freeflowing everything (even when that junction will never approach the design limits for cheaper stacked roundabout alternatives) or would you like it spent on making sure all these trains can interchange with metro? I know what I perceive as being better value for money. You could probably extend the metro from Lissenhall to Donabate (DART) station for the price of fully freeflowing J2 of the M1.

The airport is a big destination but has anyone seriously been held up on this roundabout for more than a couple of minutes? Is it really worth tens of millions to fully freeflow it? I say no, the money could be spent in much more productive ways.

I just think the junction is entirely inadequate and just wait till you see the devlopment around it. For example a 16 storey hotel is going up now at the M50/M1 interchange and 1000s of Industrial units and houses are planned for the immediate area. Saying we dont need it is the same mentality that has the M50 the way it is IMO. A national embarrasment only now being addressed. I just think its best getting it right the first time.

P.S If the DPT is going to be M50 what is the name of the section from the CL interchange to Collins Avenue gonna be. Surely it cant be N1. Just a query:)

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

I just think the junction is entirely inadequate and just wait till you see the devlopment around it. For example a 16 storey hotel is going up now at the M50/M1 interchange and 1000s of Industrial units and houses are planned for the immediate area. Saying we dont need it is the same mentality that has the M50 the way it is IMO. A national embarrasment only now being addressed. I just think its best getting it right the first time.

P.S If the DPT is going to be M50 what is the name of the section from the CL interchange to Collins Avenue gonna be. Surely it cant be N1. Just a query:)

We'll agree to disagree then. Fingal CC have been pretty restrained with planning so I'm not too worried on that front. The M1 will pretty much have to revert back to N1 on that stretch. It can't really be anything else, unless they leave motorway regs on it and keep it as M1 or an M50 spur. I'd honestly say it's gonna revert to N1.