Docklands East Station?

Metrobest

I hope my favourite party, the PDs, get what they deserve at the next election - lots of seats! Their "plan" for Dublin port is as logical as it is beneficial. This could become one of Europe's lovliest metropolitan villages, close to the city centre boasting views of the Bay and river if the PDs get their way.

In the context of substantial high-density office and residential space being developed here, some form of high-capacity rail link would be needed. I'd favour a metro. T21 is right - on-street luas wouldn't be good enough.

But that's all hinged on the development being done coherently. Consider the unambitious, mediocre architecture of the IFSC area, with its shoebox gated apartments where residents are afraid to step out their doors at night in case they get mugged at knifepoint by a gang of 8-year-olds. It's hardly what you'd call pleasant urban living, no matter what the estate agents' brochures like to spin.

Dublin's new and rather unique practice of "landmark" buildings is something that makes me nervous - I think it's awful. Tall buildings look fantastic and futuristic when they are clustered in varying degrees of height; one or two tall buildings rising steeply from a backdrop of 2/3 storey buildings just looks hideous. I fear Dublin's planners are paying lipservice to the need for high-density by allowing the occasional "landmark" building here and there; and not near any affluent areas, mind you. There the residents object to "towers" which they are convinced will bring refugees from Ballymun into their low-rise utopia.

The PDs' plan is highly unlikely to happen. I mean, this is a country which has seen some of the most corrupt planning decisions ever made, where out-of-conntrol bungalows dominate the country landscape and where a glorified syringe on O'Connell Street is taller than any building in Ireland.

If Dublin Port is relocated, what's most likely to happen is that Treasury will knock up a few four-storey apartment buildings, Spar will put in a few convenience stores, the corpo will stick in a postage-stamp sized playground and Dublin Bus will be "pleased to announce the extension of route 700000 to serve Point Village".

Transport21 Fan

This seems timely!
T21 are you part of these vested interests?

Yes, the National Association for the Acceptance of Change.

or the paramilitary wing The Not Having Your Head Up Your Hole Army.

Transport21 Fan

You are so right about what what might happen with the Port there, Metrobest.

I mean look at current Docklands station. It went form being a major rail terminal for the entire country in 1998, to an isolated pre-fab under a bridge in 2007. Everything else in Ireland grew in that time period. Our population, economy, demand for rail commuter services into the Docklands - EVERYTHING. So in the end CIE and the DoT decide to make the station as small and as unflexible as possible.

It's almost like Irish people are terrified of doing anything properly. "Sure, it'll do" - should be the motto of the National Development Plans.

It's typical of how we plan in this country - no vision, forever playing catch up and when the PDs come up something truly visionary, it is ignored...We Irish prefer our one-off houses and stimming the 4 acres of backyard and a few trains a day on the Western Rail Corridor we can wave at. That the transportation and land strategy agenda in most of this country.

God forbid a poltical party in this country starts thinking like our business community and looks towards future needs and applies the correct development model. Nope, in Ireland we are still aiming for the 1970's across all sectors of our public services and social planning. We need vast amount of energy ASAP, but we are told "no nuclear, it's un-Irish!" (didn't you see the RTE docudrama the other night!!!! *mauls rosary beads*) and so the solution to our energy crisis will be members of the Green Party rubbing sticks together under a pot of water trying to start the turbines at Moneypoint. Sorted. Well until the lights start going out a few nights a week and then the formerlly anti-nuclear energy Irish will be installing personal plutonium reactors in the garden shed becuase "that's feckin ESB never bothered to go nuclear."

Nothing ever gets followed through to its full and proper completion in Ireland. Great plans - ****e end results. Even the Luas as great as it is, was cut in half by Tony Tobin's chum Mary O'Rourke to keep the petty shop-keepers happy. Then, when we all see how good Luas is, the same shower who demanded it be chopped in half and would be "a disaster" then start demanding that we fill the entire city centre with Luas tracks. You just could not make this stuff up.

The part about the Dublin Bus route 700000 being extended is the most depressing and hard hitting part of your post.

Can you sort me out with a job in Australia?

NavanJunction1

I am convinced there is a strategy in the way these things are done.

Step 1. Announce project with loads of bells and whistles 18 months prior election
Step 2. Ensure project looks so good everybody comes on board - neutrailise the issue
Step 3. Get all publicity value from announcement - the real publicity is the 'news' - once you announced it, delivery is less important
Step 4. Drag out delivery date, or if possible design date until after election so everyone is kept as happy as possible
Step 5. If motivation for original announcement is still there, then deliver... something
Step 6. Make sure only the mimimum is delivered as publicity already maximised, and it's old news
Step 7. Attack the people that point out that promises are broken by saying they are never happy
Step 8. Go to ground again until 18 months before next election
Step 9. Go back to step 1

Bill McH

I think there are usually a couple of "re-announcement" steps in between steps 4 and 5. Probably between other steps as well.

Transport21 Fan

NavanJunction1 wrote:

I am convinced there is a strategy in the way these things are done.

Step 1. Announce project with loads of bells and whistles 18 months prior election
Step 2. Ensure project looks so good everybody comes on board - neutrailise the issue
Step 3. Get all publicity value from announcement - the real publicity is the 'news' - once you announced it, delivery is less important
Step 4. Drag out delivery date, or if possible design date until after election so everyone is kept as happy as possible
Step 5. If motivation for original announcement is still there, then deliver... something
Step 6. Make sure only the mimimum is delivered as publicity already maximised, and it's old news
Step 7. Attack the people that point out that promises are broken by saying they are never happy
Step 8. Go to ground again until 18 months before next election
Step 9. Go back to step 1

and if all else fails there's always a British soccer corporation like Man United, Liverpool and Celtic to give meaning to the lives of millions on this island.

Rupuert Murdoch is our national babysitter.

daymobrew

NavanJunction1 wrote:

Can anyone point me to a good online map that shows the whole Spencer Dock / Port area?

Google Maps: http://bussched.sourceforge.net/gmaps/map.php?53.3505,-6.23929,16

and the PDF linked to from: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51163881&postcount=1

NavanJunction1

Thanks daymobrew

I have to admit that I agree that moving the station down there makes sense if it integrates with Luas.

Just thinking of how it would be to use the current Spencer Dock station in my own circumstances.

a) Walk 15mins to station in Navan.
b) Spend 50mins on train
c) Walk 5 mins with 1,400 other people to Luas, everyone tripping each other up and jostling
d) Wait drenched for Luas

If integrated then

A) Walk 15mins to station in Navan
Spend 50mins on train
C) Wait in station shelter for Luas

what a crock - I know what I'd prefer, and it ain't Spencer Dock.

Question - if Spencer Dock is temporary until 2015, why not just extend the Luad to Broadstone temporaily (it'll be going there anyhow) and the post-interconnector (if it happens) then change it to Luas or Metro then like has been done with Sandyford allignment??

As I said previously, Broadstone is as close to Luas now as Spencer Dock will be whenever the Luas is extended in the docks. And you could go directly to St Stephen's Green (it'll be the green line), or go east to the IFSC or West to Hueston Tallaght easily.

Question - if you want to go to Stephen's green from Spencer dock, will you have to change Luas wherever the lines intersect??

Aren't the 2 lines just going to cross each other without joining?

TBH just once it integrates I don't care where the station is

NavanJunction1

Would it be possible to get the Luas to run down Sheriff St instead?

Victor

paulm17781 wrote:

I just read how a new tunnel is being put under the liffey in that area. http://breakingnews.ie/2006/04/27/story256160.html So maybe this will happen soon.... It is definitely worth planning for this as opposed to just putting up apartments and considering roads and transport at a later date.

Its only a service tunnel one of several in the area.

BTW, could you run the Dockland's Luas across the river from the Port to service Irishtown?

That is suggested with a bridge across the mouth of the Dodder. There is also the suggestion to run Luas from Spencer Dock across the Beckett (Macken Street) Bridge along South Sicular Road, meet up with the Red line and split off again and head for Lucan.

You can search by map here and get a very detailed map with planning information. It is new and a little finicky at times.

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPCRITERIA

Google earth is an option, but the data isn't great. Use satellite photos and/or map.

www.googlemaps.com

The DTO journey planner is good, but the frame size is small. Zoom in for aerial photos. The Luas C1 line is marked as indicative. Input the Point and Connolly and you will find the area.

http://www.dto.ie/web2006/jp.htm