Which hand do you prefer?

pok3rplaya

Hectorjelly wrote:

This argument is akin to someone saying they would prefer to have a €20 note over a €200 one because if it gets stolen they have lost less.

You sir, are a genius. My hat is off.

fuzzbox

jacQues wrote:

You are talking cash games. I specifically stated that its only better in tournaments and not cash games.

jacQues

AA is even better in a tourney than in a cash game, because players are under more pressure to play ... and TP, or an overpair seems good.

So I dont really know what you are trying to get at

Hectorjelly

RoundTower wrote:

Is there any way you can find out your winrate with AK on A and K high flops? I don't have Pokertracker so I don't know if this is feasible. Obviously this wouldn't still quite answer my question but it would be a start.

There should be, but I dont think so. You can filter by tonnes of stuff (if it went to a showdown, were you chk raised at any point etc etc) but the board isnt one. Im not an expert on PT so its possible there is a way that I cant see.

ocallagh

you can also run your own PT queries.

http://www.pokertracker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4189

ocallagh

RoundTower wrote:

Is there any way you can find out your winrate with AK on A and K high flops? I don't have Pokertracker so I don't know if this is feasible. Obviously this wouldn't still quite answer my question but it would be a start.

Here is the query, but you need WinSQL to run it. (you might be able to run it from MS Access too). When you download WinSql and run setup, you will be asked to connect to a database. Make sure you connect to the correct Poker Tracker database.

I have a win rate of 100% with AK (AKs or AKo) on a flop with a King in it.
I have a win rate of 39% with AK (AKs or AKo) on an Ace high flop...:mad:

SELECT

count(*) as total_occurances,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 1), 1, 0)) as win_times,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 0), 1, 0)) as lose_times

        FROM game, game_players, game_level
                WHERE ( game.game_id = game_players.game_id )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_cards LIKE '%AK%' )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_card_1 is not NULL )
                        AND ( game.game_level_id = game_level.game_level_id )
                        AND ( game_players.saw_flop_n = 1)
                        AND ( ( game.flop_1 LIKE '%K%') OR ( game.flop_2 LIKE '%K%') OR ( game.flop_3 LIKE '%K%'))
                        AND ( game_players.player_id = (select pref_value from prefs where pref_key = 'RP'))

Output is like this:


total_occurances 12
win_times 12
lose_times 0

Ste05

Can you break it down into BB's won and then compare it to BB's won with AA??

Mr. Flibble

ocallagh wrote:

Here is the query, but you need WinSQL to run it. (you might be able to run it from MS Access too). When you download WinSql and run setup, you will be asked to connect to a database. Make sure you connect to the correct Poker Tracker database.

I have a win rate of 100% with AK (AKs or AKo) on a flop with a King in it.
I have a win rate of 39% with AK (AKs or AKo) on an Ace high flop...:mad:

SELECT

count(*) as total_occurances,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 1), 1, 0)) as win_times,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 0), 1, 0)) as lose_times

        FROM game, game_players, game_level
                WHERE ( game.game_id = game_players.game_id )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_cards LIKE '%AK%' )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_card_1 is not NULL )
                        AND ( game.game_level_id = game_level.game_level_id )
                        AND ( game_players.saw_flop_n = 1)
                        AND ( ( game.flop_1 LIKE '%K%') OR ( game.flop_2 LIKE '%K%') OR ( game.flop_3 LIKE '%K%'))
                        AND ( game_players.player_id = (select pref_value from prefs where pref_key = 'RP'))

Output is like this:


total_occurances 12
win_times 12
lose_times 0

Should this take hours? I tried to run it using MS Access and its been going for 3 hrs now. I have never used Access before so God knows what it is been told to do.

ocallagh

Mr. Flibble wrote:

Should this take hours? I tried to run it using MS Access and its been going for 3 hrs now. I have never used Access before so God knows what it is been told to do.

it took less than a second for me using WinSql. (edit: just tested, it took 0.024s)

how many hands do you have in your database? even if u had 100 times the hands i have it should complete in less than 30 secs.

Mr. Flibble

Got 13 wins out of 16 with K on flop
and 6 wins out of 9 with A on flop

Does this only check for my stats of stats of all the players? How does it know my username?

ocallagh

Mr. Flibble wrote:

Got 13 wins out of 16 with K on flop
and 6 wins out of 9 with A on flop

Does this only check for my stats of stats of all the players? How does it know my username?

Your Player ID is stored in the prefs table (As long as you have it set in the preferences tab in PT). The last line of the query looks up your Player ID from the prefs table and makes sure it only references hands played by that Player ID.

eg:

AND ( game_players.player_id = (select pref_value from prefs where pref_key = 'RP'))

You could remove the last line and the query would generate stats for all players (might take a bit longer though)

Hectorjelly

Ok I did that and here are my results

With an A on the flop, 89 70 19
With a K on the flop, 90 74 16

So think they are roughly similar. What we need to do now is work out how much money they make us compared to AA with no A on the flop. I have no knowledge of SQL but ill give it a go, if anyone comes up with code (not looking at you ocallagh!) will they add a line to we can filter by blinds as well, I have a few thousand limit hands and 2c 4cnl in my database that will screw with the results

ocallagh

Hectorjelly wrote:

Ok I did that and here are my results

With an A on the flop, 89 70 19
With a K on the flop, 90 74 16

So think they are roughly similar. What we need to do now is work out how much money they make us compared to AA with no A on the flop. I have no knowledge of SQL but ill give it a go, if anyone comes up with code (not looking at you ocallagh!) will they add a line to we can filter by blinds as well, I have a few thousand limit hands and 2c 4cnl in my database that will screw with the results

SQL is quite easy (well...it is easy to manipulate). http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp have a good tutorial.

Anywhere in PT, double click on one of the column headings and it will show you the SQL used to populate the column results. It's a good way of starting to write your own queries if you think it might be helpful to your game.


anyway, here ye go. it is quite similar to the other query. The cards obviously change, but you also have to use AND instead of OR because none of the flop can contain an ace.. whereas in the previous one any one of the flop cards could have a K.

SELECT
count(*) as total_occurances,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 1), 1, 0)) as win_times,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 0), 1, 0)) as lose_times


        FROM game, game_players, game_level
                WHERE ( game.game_id = game_players.game_id )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_cards = '[B]AA[/B]' )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_card_1 is not NULL )
                        AND ( game.game_level_id = game_level.game_level_id )
                        AND ( game_players.saw_flop_n = 1)
                        AND ( ( game.flop_1 NOT LIKE '%[B]A[/B]%') [B]AND[/B] ( game.flop_2 NOT LIKE '%[B]A[/B]%') [B]AND[/B] ( game.flop_3 NOT LIKE '%[B]A[/B]%'))
                        AND ( game_players.player_id = (select pref_value from prefs where pref_key = 'RP'))

The examples above are quite complicated... called aggregate functions. They return one value based on multiple results (eg they add up multiple results and display one figure).

SQL is mainly used for returning multiple results.

eg: The following query would show you the boards cards each time you played AKo.

SELECT

game_players.hole_cards,
game.flop_1,
game.flop_2,
game.flop_3,
game.turn, 
game.river,
game_players.won_hand

        FROM game, game_players, game_level
                WHERE ( game.game_id = game_players.game_id )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_cards LIKE '%AK%' )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_card_1 is not NULL )
                        AND ( game.game_level_id = game_level.game_level_id )
                        AND ( game_players.saw_flop_n = 1)
                        AND ( game_players.player_id = (select pref_value from prefs where pref_key = 'RP'))
                        order by game_players.won_hand

Hectorjelly

Thanks a lot for that! I added two bits of code;

AND ( game_level.game_level_big_bet = 6)


To limit it to hands with a big blind of 6

Sum (game_players.total_won) as total_won

to keep a total of how much money the hand has made. I assume they are both accurate. (I just noticed that the 2nd one doesnt take rake away, ill ignore that for now since its nearly 6am!)

I think this thread is a bit all over the place to ill post the results in new thread

ocallagh

edit: just saw above post..


forgot to include the blind level filter.... the line in bold will filter. Just put in each blind level (seperate each by a comma).. in this example I filter on $0.50/1, $1/2, $2/4, $10/20 games.

SELECT

count(*) as total_occurances,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 1), 1, 0)) as win_times,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 0), 1, 0)) as lose_times

        FROM game, game_players, game_level
                WHERE ( game.game_id = game_players.game_id )
                        [B]AND (game_level.game_level_big_bet IN (1,2,4,20))[/B]
                        AND ( game_players.hole_cards = 'AA' )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_card_1 is not NULL )
                        AND ( game.game_level_id = game_level.game_level_id )
                        AND ( game_players.saw_flop_n = 1)
                        AND ( ( game.flop_1 <> 'A') AND ( game.flop_2 <> 'A') AND ( game.flop_3 <> 'A'))
                        AND ( game_players.player_id = (select pref_value from prefs where pref_key = 'RP'))

Hectorjelly

just also noted that the sum will add up each pot whether I win it or not! lol Ill ignore that for now

Hectorjelly

the more I think about this, the less I realise it tells us without the winrate, so Ill just post it here for now.

Over 44k hands played at $2 $4 and $3 $6 Ive had

AA with no A on flop, 100 times. It won 89 and lost 11 times (win of 87%)
Ak with an A or K on flop, 132 times. It won 107 and lost 25 times (win of 75%)

Ill look into the winrate of the two tomorrow, It would be good if we could get someone with a 100k plus database to do the queries as well.

ocallagh

Hectorjelly wrote:

just also noted that the sum will add up each pot whether I win it or not! lol Ill ignore that for now

ok- im off to bed!

this should return all you need

SELECT

count(*) as total_occurances,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 1), 1, 0)) as win_times,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 0), 1, 0)) as lose_times,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 1), (game_players.total_won - game_players.total_bet), 0)) as money_won,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 0), (game_players.total_bet), 0)) as money_lost,

SUM(
IIF ((game_players.won_hand = 1), (game_players.total_won - game_players.total_bet), (-game_players.total_bet))) as total_profit



        FROM game, game_players, game_level
                WHERE ( game.game_id = game_players.game_id )
                                AND (game_level.game_level_big_bet IN (1,2,4,20))
                        AND ( game_players.hole_cards = 'AA' )
                        AND ( game_players.hole_card_1 is not NULL )
                        AND ( game.game_level_id = game_level.game_level_id )
                        [B]AND ( ( game.flop_1 <> 'A') AND ( game.flop_2 <> 'A') AND ( game.flop_3 <> 'A'))[/B]
                        AND ( game_players.player_id = (select pref_value from prefs where pref_key = 'RP'))

edit: left out the line in bold(above) to make sure there was no Ace on the flop...

RoundTower

I'm convincing myself that reading this thread counts as studying for my computer science exams.