secondary school league table

thebaz

trying to pick a secondary school for our son, is causing grief. His mother wants to send him to school topping the school league table - gonzaga , if he can get in ; logically i see her point, sends highest number of pupils to 3rd level , but i wonder will he get a balanced education , or will he be surrounded by elitist academics , he is an average student in regular NS, loves soccer not rugby . While we are far from D4 high rollers, we could afford fees , thereabouts . I don't think he will get in, so i suspect i will win this one, but if he does am i paranoid about elitism at this establishment ? i want whats best for him overall, not just academically !

stepbar

Have you asked him??

drdre

Blackrock College Is The Best, Cause I Went To It:D

DEmeant0r

IMO, it doesn't really matter what school you send him to, even if you send him to the best of the best and he doesn't want to do work/study you can't exactly force him to do it. Sure better than average textbooks/teachers would help but at the end of the day it's up to him if he wants to succeed in academics or not, I know some students that got quite high points in the leaving despite being in a scumbag school.

So, what I'm saying is, if he gets in Gonzaga then great, if not then your you/your son/your wife shouldn't be downtrodden(how do you even spell that word?) by it.

drdre

Demeant0r wrote:

IMO, it doesn't really matter what school you send him to, even if you send him to the best of the best and he doesn't want to do work/study you can't exactly force him to do it. Sure better than average textbooks/teachers would help but at the end of the day it's up to him if he wants to succeed in academics or not, I know some students that got quite high points in the leaving despite being in a scumbag school.

So, what I'm saying is, if he gets in Gonzaga then great, if not then your you/your son/your wife shouldn't be downtrodden(how do you even spell that word?) by it.

i think it does matter about the school so you are saying if i went to school in ballymum or blackrock college it doesnt make a difference.you must be joking.

melekalikimaka

if the parents can't decide each pick a school and let the bugger decide

DEmeant0r

drdre wrote:

i think it does matter about the school so you are saying if i went to school in ballymum or blackrock college it doesnt make a difference.you must be joking.

well what I'm saying is that it's up to the student, yes you could be in Blackrock college(is that a top school? sorry, don't know Dublin schools well) but if you don't want to study/work and do well in the leaving then no one can actually physically force you to do it, can they?

Dave!

In my experience, public schools produce more well-rounded people. Surely it's healthier for your child to have them mixing with both 'afluent' and 'working-class' people. Is the only reason you're sending him to school so that he can get into college and become a solicitor? I mean, what if he decides that he wants to take up a trade instead?

I dunno, I think that public schools are fine. As someone mentioned, it's not only the school that decides how good your child will do. There are wasters in private schools, and geniuses in public schools. At the end of the day, it's your son's personality that decides how well he's gonna do in school.

DEmeant0r

Exactly! Finally someone agrees with my statement...

Brian017

Demeantor is right. The best schools does not always = the best results. If the student is not willing to do the work well then it doesn't matter how 'good' a school is. It's down to the student IMO. If they do the work more than likely they'll get good results no matter what school it is.

drdre

Demeant0r wrote:

well what I'm saying is that it's up to the student, yes you could be in Blackrock college(is that a top school? sorry, don't know Dublin schools well) but if you don't want to study/work and do well in the leaving then no one can actually physically force you to do it, can they?

yes thats right.it is up to the student but the top school bit is a factor

Patricide

Sening someone to the right school may make all the difference in the world,Most private secondary schools also have less bullying, less distrations in class and better teachers and less pupils per teacher.Although its true that you could succeed or fail no matter where you put a student putting him/her in a top school will be a healthy advantage.

ronbyrne2005

there was a documentary on channel4 recently where they followed pupils who got same results in their equivalent of the leaving cert and came from public and private schools.they found that those who came from public schools did better in university than the private school pupils with equivalent gcse scores.
basically if someone is academic they will do well wherever they are but might do a bit better in private schools as they have an intense study/cramming ethic. private school chums can open up doors for you(networking "who you know" etc)
i went to crap school,didnt got to many classes during last year and studied an average amount at home myself and got very good leaving cert.

cuckoo

The league tables are a skewed version of exam achievement from schools. Walk past the Institute of Education on Leeson St any fri evening and you'll see uniforms from all the schools in the top 10 streaming in for their grinds.

Imho, parental attitude towards education is the single most important factor, not so much in the "i'll nag them into getting a good leaving", but in valuing learning, not tolerating distractions (eg partying on a school night) and being supportive.

To the OP, i'd suggest you try and talk to parents with sons in as many schools as possible. And, include your son in the decision, or at least discuss it with him.

slightly off topic: i went to a fee paying school, and was in large classes, witnessed much bullying (girls can be insanely cruel with their teasing), paint was peeling off some of the walls, the heating was tempermental, there was a small clique who were obsessed with their parents salaries, at least three quarters of 6th year were getting grinds and i had some terrible teachers (and some great). But, i made some good friends, enjoyed some parts of my 6 years there and hated others - a pretty typical school experience, i think.

BuffyBot

Blackrock College Is The Best, Cause I Went To It

Evidently, the money spent was worth it..

Thirdfox

Meh Boo Blackrock, St. Mary's, Rathmines is the school to be in!

Seriously though, having experienced a wide variety of schools (9 in total between primary and secondary) I think that private schools are the better way to go, if you can afford it.

Not only are you getting top notch education + facilities but also the people that your child is hanging around and making friends with are (to be totally frank) going to be some of the people in charge of the country in the future.

E.g in Mary's we had a boy whose parents were judges, another's father was a minister in the Dáil etc. etc. I'm sure the same applies for Blackrock, Terenure, Gonzaga college. The atmosphere of the class is different to that of some public schools - here people have goals in life, they want to achieve something great... or at the very worst manage Daddy's business

Finally Gonzaga is a very academic school from what I know, once when we went there to play their chess team I couldn't help notice that they had posters up with Pi down to 100 decimal places! (That's ridiculous, we only know down to 10 )

Having said all that, if your child isn't motivated then no matter how prestigious the school you send him/her to it won't really benefit. But a good private school does increase the odds of him/her doing well in later life.

My standard disclaimer applies! (See signature )

*edit: Cuckoo - that school wouldn't happen to be Alex would it? Don't sue for defamation Alex College!

blu_sonic

the standard of education in Ireland is high regardless of what school the kid will go to, send him to a top school he may feel inferior send him to a lower school and he may be bullied, try and reflect on where you are as people

Julesie

OP, I can understand your reservations about sending your son to Gonzaga.
Is Gonzaga close to where you live or has it been chosen somewhat arbitrarily just because of its reputation. When i was a teenager my parents made the decision to send me to what they considered to be a better school however it was in the next town which meant i relied on school buses/lifts which in turn meant i missed out on many of the extra-curricular activities the school had to offer. I always imagined i would have had a better all round experience if they had stuck with what they imagined to be the inferior school.
Just something to consider.

mikemac

DaveMcG wrote:

In my experience, public schools produce more well-rounded people. Surely it's healthier for your child to have them mixing with both 'afluent' and 'working-class' people. Is the only reason you're sending him to school so that he can get into college and become a solicitor? I mean, what if he decides that he wants to take up a trade instead?

I dunno, I think that public schools are fine. As someone mentioned, it's not only the school that decides how good your child will do. There are wasters in private schools, and geniuses in public schools. At the end of the day, it's your son's personality that decides how well he's gonna do in school.

Well said!
In todays economy a tradesperson is likely to earn more than a solicitor as well

Pythia

Private schools give you a much wider range of subjects to choose from. They also allow classes to run with hardly anyone in them.
Just some examples:

I did Ancient Greek in my school, I was the only one in my class for 5 years. What non-fee paying school offers that?

I also studied Applied Maths with only one other person, and Physics with three others. This was in a girls' school btw.

The reason I got advantages like this is because I went to a top private school. The local school either might not offer the subjects at all (like applied maths, Greek), or not run the class.

We had a large number of people taking honours in all the subjects, in some cases 90% or more. Although not everyone was going to do particulary well, there was a very high standard of LC results compared with the average.

Almost every single person went on to 3rd level of some kind, with the
overwhelming majority going to UCD or TCD.

I also believe that private schools make people more rounded. I speak nicely and am polite. I think this is a result of where I went to school. We had so many extra curricular activities and we could learn any instrument we wanted, they'd find a teacher. We had great facilities as they were paid for by the parents.

I could go on and on tbh, but anyway, point is, send your kid to Gonzaga, you won't regret it. (They do Greek there too!)

lostexpectation

bax wrote:

trying to pick a secondary school for our son, is causing grief. His mother wants to send him to school topping the school league table - gonzaga , if he can get in ; logically i see her point, sends highest number of pupils to 3rd level , but i wonder will he get a balanced education , or will he be surrounded by elitist academics , he is an average student in regular NS, loves soccer not rugby . While we are far from D4 high rollers, we could afford fees , thereabouts . I don't think he will get in, so i suspect i will win this one, but if he does am i paranoid about elitism at this establishment ? i want whats best for him overall, not just academically !

what other choices are there?

SpAcEd OuT

I reckon St. Marys rathmines would be perfect, Good academically, brilliant sports facillites (they recently built a multi million euro sports hall with gym) I remember when I was there having a good mix of people, unlike Blackrock which has only D4 high rollers. the school is also very involved in its students while there I never witnessed a serouis act of bullying against another class mate, great sense of comradery amongst fellow students.

Personally if you have the money I would advise against sending your son to a public school, up until 2nd year I was in Synge Street, my parents could see me going the wrong way, hanging out with bad influences, getting in trouble with the gardai because of who i was hanging out with and grades slipping dramatically, in my expirience theres a lot less discipline in Public schools and there is quite a few students who couldnt give a **** and go out of their way to disrupt class

irlrobins

As an ex Gonzaga pupil I can def recommend it from an academic viewpoint. Great teachers who can really inspire you to achieve your best. It's position on the league table is justified.

As regards sports, Gonzaga is a rugby school, but compared to Blackrock or Clongowes it's def 'b' rate. Soccer is not played as a formal school sport, but it is of course played every lunch break. And you'll probably find that if your son is a keen sportsman he'll probably get into the rugby in some form.

As regards elitism, from my personal experience pupils from other schools come across as far more self superior than Gonzaga boys. Blackrock being the obvious one. The environment between these two schools could not be more different.

Hope your son does get Gonzaga. I don't think you'll regret it.

thebaz

Thanks all -- from above post -- it sounds pretty rounded , which would be good -- like many say i would like him to get a balanced education , not just with rich folk - or for him to grow up fealing inferior materially -- The other thing is ,it is boys only , and he is quite social , i think mixed school might be better ... also agree that if he becomes a good tradesman - terrific - as he himself is not the most academic ! P.S. St. Andrew (fee paying) ,Newpark Comp., and CBC Monkstown are the other contenders.

Bartronilic

My old school is the 3rd or 4th biggest feeder school to UCD and in the top 20 for TCD, DCU and DIT, and number 1 for IT Tallaght but it doesn't appear on school league tables cos the prinicple doesn'twant to associate with Private schools or something.

Anyway they are unrelible. Send him too a mixed school, much better.

Thirdfox

Can't the newspapers get the info under the FOI Act? Or does the Data protection act cover this?

hullaballoo

bax wrote:

Thanks all -- from above post -- it sounds pretty rounded , which would be good -- like many say i would like him to get a balanced education , not just with rich folk - or for him to grow up fealing inferior materially -- The other thing is ,it is boys only , and he is quite social , i think mixed school might be better ... also agree that if he becomes a good tradesman - terrific - as he himself is not the most academic ! P.S. St. Andrew (fee paying) ,Newpark Comp., and CBC Monkstown are the other contenders.

Ok, from personal experience I'll make a recommendation. I wouldn't normally get involved in a thread like this, because I went to a school that is shrouded with a fog of ostensible elitism, despite the fact that I'm personally not too bothered with that sort of thing.

What I want to say to you is this: do not, under any circumstances, send your kid to Newpark CS. I was there for two years of my life, and they were the two worst years of my life that I remember. Now, I'm not going to libel the school, but take my recommendation that if your son is only an average performer in NS, but seems to have potential, then Gonzaga, St Michael's, St Gerard's or St Andrew's should all have his name on their shortlists.

Now, St Gerard's and St Michael's are both small enough, so your son will be guaranteed to get the attention he needs in his education. They also both play rugby, but St Gerard's has an hour every day after school when students play sports, and there is a fairly broad variety of sports for boys and girls both (from soccer to archery). I don't know what the sports in St Michael's is like, except that they are probably currently the best rugby team in Leinster, despite the outcome of the cup.

In addition to being small, there are girls in St Gerard's. This, contrary to what some might think, promotes a sense of competition, because (although they might not admit it) the lads don't want to be outshone by the girls. The probem with St Gerard's and St Michael's is that they are expensive, St Gerard's very much so. St Gerard's doesn't really feature on the League because it is a very small school (about 300+ students) and many of them go abroad for third level.

Beyond that, Coláiste Eoin is actually the second best feeder for tertiary education, and it seems to me that the students there always do well. It's an Irish school too, so that almost guarantees that your son will get top marks in Irish, and apparently their English Department is very good too. Coláiste Eoin has the advantage of not being too expensive either!

CBC Monkstown has a mixed bunch of students and results, so sending him there would depend on his work ethic.

St Andrew's is a very good school too, most people who go there love it, and it has a high ratio of students going on to third level.

jamiecake

Institute of education, leason street, dublin 2.

Piste

That's only for 5th and 6th year though, what about the first 3/4 years?

Gonzaga seems to be a good school, I know some guys in it and they like it. If you want your son to mix with girls too then possibly consider Coláiste Eoin, it is a boys school but it is right beside Coláiste Iosagáin and I know the two schools do frequently mix with eachother.

Good luck school-hunting

Thomas_S_Hunterson

jamiecake wrote:

Institute of education, leason street, dublin 2.

[shudder]

In my experience, the teachers in private schools are in general way superior to those in public schools.
While all schools have blatantly bad teachers, my own experience of private schools is that the good teachers are much more motivated and ggenuinely want students to do really. Many teachers will stay back after school to help any student that is having difficulty and from what i gather, this rarely happens in public schools.

Also, i think it is very important that someone be sent to a school fitting their background (that probably sounds nazi-ish, but whatever) because someone coming from a more affluent background is unlikely to fit into a school where the majority of pupils come from less privelaged backgrounds. They will be a target for bullying due to their "poshness". In a private school, they will be with people of the same socio-economic backgground and thus everyone is on the same playing field as such.

hullaballoo

sean_keevey wrote:

Also, i think it is very important that someone be sent to a school fitting their background (that probably sounds nazi-ish, but whatever) because someone coming from a more affluent background is unlikely to fit into a school where the majority of pupils come from less privelaged backgrounds. They will be a target for bullying due to their "poshness". In a private school, they will be with people of the same socio-economic backgground and thus everyone is on the same playing field as such.

Socio-economic background is a fallacy. This is the 21st century, people are well able to get along with one another in these schools. I come from a background that would have been neither impoverished, nor afluent, so I was not targetted in either school I went to on these grounds. That said, there were people from different backgrounds in both schools I went to, and I don't think I ever saw anyone being bullied for their societal status. That sort of thing is frowned upon in this day and age, and both school authorities and other pupils are likely to deal with that sort of prejudice very quickly.

Actually, I remember hearing about a group of first years in one of the schools picking on someone because of their race, but those who were involved were expelled and the subject is now one of the most popular in the school (which, I realise is wholly unrelated, but goes to show that it's not something to worry about.)

Font22

hullaballoo wrote:

Ok, from personal experience I'll make a recommendation. I wouldn't normally get involved in a thread like this, because I went to a school that is shrouded with a fog of ostensible elitism, despite the fact that I'm personally not too bothered with that sort of thing.

What I want to say to you is this: do not, under any circumstances, send your kid to Newpark CS. I was there for two years of my life, and they were the two worst years of my life that I remember. Now, I'm not going to libel the school, but take my recommendation that if your son is only an average performer in NS, but seems to have potential, then Gonzaga, St Michael's, St Gerard's or St Andrew's should all have his name on their shortlists.

Now, St Gerard's and St Michael's are both small enough, so your son will be guaranteed to get the attention he needs in his education. They also both play rugby, but St Gerard's has an hour every day after school when students play sports, and there is a fairly broad variety of sports for boys and girls both (from soccer to archery). I don't know what the sports in St Michael's is like, except that they are probably currently the best rugby team in Leinster, despite the outcome of the cup.
In addition to being small, there are girls in St Gerard's. This, contrary to what some might think, promotes a sense of competition, because (although they might not admit it) the lads don't want to be outshone by the girls. The probem with St Gerard's and St Michael's is that they are expensive, St Gerard's very much so. St Gerard's doesn't really feature on the League because it is a very small school (about 300+ students) and many of them go abroad for third level.

Beyond that, Coláiste Eoin is actually the second best feeder for tertiary education, and it seems to me that the students there always do well. It's an Irish school too, so that almost guarantees that your son will get top marks in Irish, and apparently their English Department is very good too. Coláiste Eoin has the advantage of not being too expensive either!

CBC Monkstown has a mixed bunch of students and results, so sending him there would depend on his work ethic.

St Andrew's is a very good school too, most people who go there love it, and it has a high ratio of students going on to third level.

Besty is prob going to love you forever thanks to that comment!

patzer117

hmm, yeah, if you don't know how about ringing up the school or talking to the parents of a pupil there? i reckon you should talk to the jesuits about gonzaga, and to maybe champion sports about blackrock. gonzaga's aim is to produce well rounded 'men for others' - the jesuit aim. they don't teach stuff for exams, results don't matter, you're judged a success by your person not by your results. i think it's important you decide what you want for your son and then pick the school based on that. if it's results you want, i don't think gonzaga's the place tbh - cause that's not what they are there for

Zapp Brannigan

That league table is ridiculous. It only counts some colleges as 3rd level. Doesn't include numbers of PLC's etc.
Shambolic, of the highest order.

blu_sonic

where can i view this table?

patzer117

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,4386-1879754,00.html
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2005/1121/1630273000HM1FEEDER.html is another one


i don't think the table itself ever went online, at least i can't find it now.

to the op, you need to have applied to these schools a long time ago too, just if your son is like 10 now there isn't that much chance

blu_sonic

but is there an actual league table i can view?

RandolphEsq

Thirdfox wrote:

Meh Boo Blackrock, St. Mary's, Rathmines is the school to be in!

You're both wrong, Michaels is quite superior to the other schools in the country whilst maintaining a level head

bandraoi

I would judge a school by the comments on ratemyteacher.ie rather than on any league table in the newspapers.

Pythia

patzer117 wrote:

to the op, you need to have applied to these schools a long time ago too, just if your son is like 10 now there isn't that much chance

In my old school, people were putting their kids names down at birth to be getting in in 12/13 years times.

gilroyb

I'm currently in University. I attended a State school, got on fine, and I feel mine was a much more rounded education as a result. There are a number of private schools I would definitely advise against, but Gonzaga is not one of them. I have seen some wonderful people become totally self-involved as a result of going to a private school. Be very careful about about thinking that just because you pay for an education it will be an improvement. Find THE school for your child, don't just assume all private schools are good and all public schools are bad.

Also, on a similar subject, I'd advise that all girls go to mixed schools. Single sex schools schools may give them somewhat better grades, but that's not everything one wants from an education.

Tom65

I went to Blackrock and I think while it probably does tend to produce more students with better academics, there are always wasters around who'll do nothing. Also, I think public school makes more well rounded child. Blackrock produces a lot of "Blackrock - Superior" types, who really are arseholes, and view the world in terms of money.

I think if I was to choose where to send my (imaginary) kid, having had the private school experience, I'd probably choose a public school. I would avoid the D4 rugby schools like the plague.

diggies

interesting topic- and ultimately one of nature v nurture. Gonzaga seems to be producing excellent league table results, but IMO doenst strike me as the best 'all rounder' school. I dont think your son would get a really broad perspective on society there- i went to a private school, one that still relishes in mid to lower table obscurity. I had a great time there, but often felt inferior to lots of the rich gals. my parents were teachers, my mother in a girls school in a really deprived area, she reckoned that my school was krapp compared to the education that the students in her school got. it depends what you are looking for. good to see the old boys network still going strong on these boards though. i work with men who left 'rock 30 years ago, its still the first question they ask any new joiner to the company.
Finally to the posters who says their old school is not on the league tables cos the principal didnt want it there- an urban myth m'afraid. league tables are compiled by information obtained by the media under the FOI act.

Nightwish

League table results are not an accurate reflection of the school. They only focus on the number going to University. I would recommend the OP review the WSE (Whole School Evaluation) results carried out on the school. This gives a well rounded more balanced view of the school environment, taking into account the schools facilities, extra curricular activities, school learning environment etc. They are posted on the Dept of Education website.

Vorsprung

Nightwish wrote:

League table results are not an accurate reflection of the school. They only focus on the number going to University. I would recommend the OP review the WSE (Whole School Evaluation) results carried out on the school. This gives a well rounded more balanced view of the school environment, taking into account the schools facilities, extra curricular activities, school learning environment etc. They are posted on the Dept of Education website.

Link?

thebaz

his name is already down for a few schools including Rock . Gonzaga like others dont take applications until 5th class , which is next october . I'm not from Dublin and want whats best overall. we have discussed with freinds and others , and the issue was raised by more than one that Gonzaga was elitist . The feedback here seems to indicate that this is not necessarily so, and other schools such as Blackrock would be even more so. He likes sport , particularly soccer and hurling, which Rock do offer but not Gonzaga. The others from his class are being scattered across Oatlands, Blackrock ,Newpark , Colaiste Eoin and Gonzaga. p.s his irish is poor so colaiste eoin is out -- unfortunatly.

Sangre

St Michaels all the way tbh. The year we graduated 25% of the year got over 500 points and the overall average was way above the national average. You'll struggle to find a school with 80+ students with better results (theres a reason why michaels always do worse at SCT level). Great facilities, great teachers and he'll make friends for life.
Despite its Dublin 4 location its a school of north and southsiders because its literally at Sydney parade DART.
In my 8 years in that school I can't ever recall someone being slagged for being poor. You can't tell when everyone wears a uniform.
When I went from public to private school I loved the differce in faclities, so much more to do and try out and I went to Hollypark which is an excellent public school.

Also to the person who said Marys was a great academic school...don't make me laugh!

Black_Couch

Seriously some posters going on about which schools are grade B rugby schools etc. get a grip! The OP is trying to decide where to send his son and how good the school is at rugby simply isn't a factor. :mad:

A lot of people are focusing on leaving cert results and league tables of feeder schools. This is not the most important aspect of a school believe it or not and unfortunately is often what a school is judged upon.

I'm biased, went to a non-fee paying school and glad. Makes you work harder to get what you want than a non-fee paying school. I also think grinds are a cop-out too. And its kind of connected to my opinions on private schooling, paying for your education is wrong I feel.

Also I'd like to point out that there is a disproportionate amount of people here on boards from private schools.

Best thing to do is probably list out all the negatives and positives of each type of schooling and see what comes out on top.

psicic

Hmmm....my state school was a living disgrace, so I have to say school choice is very important. Even though there are some good state-funded schools out there, there are a lot of really, really – no, you don’t quite get what I’m trying to tell you – REALLY bad ones out there. In all honesty, I think you get a lot more opportunities in fee-paying schools. Even if your son’s not academically inclined, he can still progress to degree level from a fee-paying school more easily which, after all, doesn’t mean he’s a genius, but is only a tool to a higher wage. There are some very dull people with degrees

One example from my own schooling, in Leaving Cert Year our French teacher, who was still doing the same thing as in first year when he actually held class, kept taking the class out for football instead of doing work because it was 'our last year' and we never had a chance to relax. We never heard of any of the national extra-curricular activities. No school clubs. No student organisation (though we did have a strike or two ). No organised study. I was constantly bored, never said anything in class because discipline was out the window, no PE, no school library of worth ....yup...good times. I'm not talking too long ago either, say about 7 years ago now.

On-topic, I can only say one thing of worth, and that's schools funded/built/run under a PPP programme seem to be very dynamic places. The activities and facilities available to the students are, well, amazing. You've already said your kid isn't academically inclined, so that’s something to consider.

p.s. Now I (ironically) work for the Department of Education - my alma mater on the verge of closing down. Completely co-incidental, of course. :rolleyes:

p.p.s. I agree with Black_Couch on several levels - there seems to be a whole lot of people posting here who went to fee-paying schools. Also, in a perfect world, the schools the state funds would be run well. But they're not. Once again the petty sectional interests that control education in this country win out at the expense of the taxpayer and the pupils. If only schools paid-for by the state were run by the state...and no, VECs don't count as they are as badly warped and twisted by the current quango as any of the other schools.

irlrobins

Black_Couch wrote:

Seriously some posters going on about which schools are grade B rugby schools etc. get a grip!

My mention of Gonzaga being 'b' grade at rugby was to point out that while they offer sports, it is not the end all and be all attitude towards them that other schools have, like Blackrock. I was crap at rugby and never played it while at Gonzaga. So my opinion on Gonzaga or any other school is not influenced by how good a rugby team they offer. But i would be concerned on the pressure some schools put on their rugby players.

Black_Couch

irlrobins wrote:

My mention of Gonzaga being 'b' grade at rugby was to point out that while they offer sports, it is not the end all and be all attitude towards them that other schools have, like Blackrock. I was crap at rugby and never played it while at Gonzaga. So my opinion on Gonzaga or any other school is not influenced by how good a rugby team they offer. But i would be concerned on the pressure some schools put on their rugby players.

Sorry completely took u up wrong so. Good point you made so.