Aer Lingus cancelled my flight - compensation??

Victor

Saruman wrote:

Thats decent of them.. they are not bound by same rules as the flight did not begin in an EU country.

The Americans have similar rules, although I suspect (a) his trip originated in the EU, but not that particular leg (b) it might apply to all EU carriers regardless of origin / destination - one would have to check the wording.

Ruu_Old

Victor wrote:

The Americans have similar rules, although I suspect (a) his trip originated in the EU, but not that particular leg (b) it might apply to all EU carriers regardless of origin / destination - one would have to check the wording.

Yeah it was the return leg of the flight back to Dublin but they had no squabbles about it, I didnt have to ask. I was damn glad of the bed and food.

El Stuntman

secret_squirrel wrote:

Its probably their very shambolic customer complaints department rather than any deliberate delaying tactics.

Address your letter to the Jim Rogders guy - being the duty manager he will be based at the Airport rather than a head office muppet.

Alternatively address it to the CEO Dermot Manion.

For maximum impact CC it to all the senior AL management names you can get.

I did send each letter to this Jim Rogers dude as well

tbh, given all the aggro to date, I am quite looking forward to going to Court!!

it's all a bit silly given that they have already told me, in writing, that they would make this refund to my credit card - should have had this months ago without having to go chasing them

does make me mad that my taxes subsidise these incompetent buffoons and now they will cripple the privatised version of Aer Lingus with their ludicrous demands...makes it very apparent that all state and semi-state employees have zero interest in their customers (i.e. you and me, the taxpayer who pays their wages) and are only interested in maintaining their stress-free working conditions and generous pay/pension packages!!

Feckers :mad:

El Stuntman

not strictly on topic but illustrates my point...taken from RTE this am

"Delays on Aer Lingus flights today

06 July 2006 10:31
SIPTU staff have begun a protest meeting which will cause delays at Dublin, Cork and Shannon Airports.

The company says that although the protest meeting, which began at 9.45am, will last for around an hour and a quarter it will cause delays throughout the day.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Aer Lingus Chief Executive Dermot Mannion said the company had attempted to minimise disruption.

1,500 to 2,000 passengers on seven flights at Dublin, Cork and Shannon will be affected directly by the stoppage.

Aer Lingus wants passengers to check in as normal so disruption can be minimised.

SIPTU says the company has failed to agree details of staffing levels, pensions and working arrangements. It wants these finalised before any possible privatisation.

Aer Lingus, which met with SIPTU yesterday, says it is confident that all outstanding issues will be resolved."

SIPTU-speak translated into English - 'we are the dinosaurs from Planet Union. Given that no-one in their right mind in the private sector recognises unions (employer or employee), we will continue to pick on the one sector we know will always give in to our ludicrous demands - the Government, this way we hope to maintain some semblance of being relevant in a world which is passing us by...."

Victor

El Stuntman wrote:

does make me mad that my taxes subsidise

Only in the 2001 bailout has the government ever invested in Aer Lingus, everything AL owns is from its own profits made on the back of borrowings.

BuffyBot

Aer Lingus cancelled the flight I was on from Chicago to Dublin, January '05 I think it was. There had been an accident with one of the planes in Dublin but at least they paid for the passengers hotels for the night and gave us food vouchers for the airport.

In fairness, any airline in this situation would/should do this in this kind of situation as it's standard practice - and I don't include low-cost carriers like Ryanair/easyJet.

El Stuntman

final post on this:

whoo-hoo, refund in full and a grovelling letter of apology from some AL gimp-monkey!!!

just shows it pays to make a fuss; I reckon I made about €1,000 from my US holiday as a result of AL's incompetence....

who's de man??

now, what can I blow €2,500 on this weekend?

Zambrotta

Yeah you are right about the compensation that you are due and I can't believe they tried to scam you like that.If you don't get your compensation make sure u call the consumer association or the citizen info office to get ur facts straight and then try to kick up a fuss in the media, go to the irish times and indo, newstalk, today fm, giveoutabout.com, I'm sure Gay Byrne would do it if he was still on air so go for live line. I'm sick of people in ireland just complaining about things and then not chasing it so do it for us all and don't let them get away with it.
World cup winner Zambrotta

secret_squirrel

Victor wrote:

Only in the 2001 bailout has the government ever invested in Aer Lingus, everything AL owns is from its own profits made on the back of borrowings.

There was no bailout in 2001 (it was against EU rules by then).

There were 1 or 2 bailouts before that under the Cahill Plan and others in the 1990's.

steve-o

Victor wrote:

everything AL owns is from its own profits made on the back of borrowings.

According to their latest accounts, their net assets are just over €400m. Of that, total accumulated profits are €38m. The balance is taxpayers money, including more than €220m from the Cahill Plan alone. On top of that it has a €170m pensions deficit which needs to be funded. That adds up to more than €500m in taxpayers money.

secret_squirrel

steve-o wrote:

According to their latest accounts, their net assets are just over €400m. Of that, total accumulated profits are €38m. The balance is taxpayers money, including more than €220m from the Cahill Plan alone. On top of that it has a €170m pensions deficit which needs to be funded. That adds up to more than €500m in taxpayers money.

How is any of that useful?

By that definition every Asset Aerlingus has is Tax Payers money since its owned by the Government.

The point being made was there is a difference between money specifically for a bailout vs money invested in Aer Lingus over the years as a state owned (and financed) company.

Indeed EU rules permit continual investment into a state owned company by the state as a shareholder. What EU rules do not permit is bailouts by Governments in times of troubles.

Oh and fyi - its a potential 170m pension hole should the fund be changed to be index linked.

At the moment its not and is in surplus.

It should also be noted that the Government was also responsible for more than its fair share of Aer Lingus' ills, by using it numerous times as a political football.

The IPO now - a year later that it should have been to maximise both the capital raised and revenue for the Government, is a fine example of this.

Victor

secret_squirrel wrote:

There was no bailout in 2001 (it was against EU rules by then). There were 1 or 2 bailouts before that under the Cahill Plan and others in the 1990's.

Apologies, it would have been under the Cahill Plan then. 2001 was when Sabena and Swissair went to the wall

El Stuntman

I see they are at it again, having stranded another planeload of passengers in Malaga for over 24hrs already and 'hoping' to get a charter place to get them home today..

compo = €250 * 400 = €100,000 plus flight refunds plus cost of chartering another plane.

have these fools any idea what they are doing?

btw, got 3 of my 5 tickets refunded to my credit card today (only 3 months late!), awaiting final 2....:)

secret_squirrel

El Stuntman wrote:

have these fools any idea what they are doing?

Of course they dont know what they are doing - they strand fare paying passengers just for fun :rolleyes:

Do you know how difficult it is hire a plane at this time of year? and how full most flights are? And how easy it is for events outside of an Airlines control to throw their schedules into chaos?

Would you like to pay the huge amounts of extra money it would cost you in fares to keep 4 or 5 planes on standby for this type of incident? I think not.

All airlines keep 1 or 2 planes on standby by for this type of emergency, but it only takes 3-4 types of these incidents in quick succession for even the best airline to be overwhelmed.

For every incident like the one in malaga, and the one today on the outbound Malaga flight there are 4-5 others that are averted before they get this far, or that result in minimal delays due to re-routing and use of standby aircraft.

I would guess that Aer Lingus are probably picking up the hotel bills for the people who are stuck in Malaga, thats what they used to do.

During the recent bomb scares Aer Lingus bust a gut to get people out, unlike Ryan Air who cancelled 20 flights in the first one.

Atleast try to establish some objectivity before ranting.

El Stuntman

secret_squirrel wrote:

Of course they dont know what they are doing - they strand fare paying passengers just for fun :rolleyes:

Do you know how difficult it is hire a plane at this time of year? and how full most flights are? And how easy it is for events outside of an Airlines control to throw their schedules into chaos?

Would you like to pay the huge amounts of extra money it would cost you in fares to keep 4 or 5 planes on standby for this type of incident? I think not.

All airlines keep 1 or 2 planes on standby by for this type of emergency, but it only takes 3-4 types of these incidents in quick succession for even the best airline to be overwhelmed.

For every incident like the one in malaga, and the one today on the outbound Malaga flight there are 4-5 others that are averted before they get this far, or that result in minimal delays due to re-routing and use of standby aircraft.

I would guess that Aer Lingus are probably picking up the hotel bills for the people who are stuck in Malaga, thats what they used to do.

During the recent bomb scares Aer Lingus bust a gut to get people out, unlike Ryan Air who cancelled 20 flights in the first one.

Atleast try to establish some objectivity before ranting.

Once they are privatised, do you think their service levels will get worse or better?

and there was no suggestion that this latest screw-upwas caused by events outside AL control, 100% their own fault - again!

secret_squirrel

El Stuntman wrote:

Once they are privatised, do you think their service levels will get worse or better?

I expect it will remain the much the same. Flight cancellations are generally caused by 'acts of god' type events than any deliberate policy on the part of the airline, unless they are cancelled through lack of passengers.

and there was no suggestion that this latest screw-upwas caused by events outside AL control, 100% their own fault - again!

I dont know where you got that info. Afaik The plane currently stuck in Malaga was damaged by a vehicle on the ground. Its grounded until its repaired and there are no repair facilities in Malaga. How is that Aer Lingus' fault?

El Stuntman

sorry mr squirrel you are right and I think I owe an apology

Having seen the astonishing manner in which they were managing check-in at Dublin airport yesterday I now realise I should never have compared the good workers of Aer Lingus to a pack of monkeys.

It was most unfair to the monkeys of the world and I apologise wholeheartedly for any offence caused. I hope the feeble-brained primates forgive me.

secret_squirrel

El Stuntman wrote:

sorry mr squirrel you are right and I think I owe an apology

Having seen the astonishing manner in which they were managing check-in at Dublin airport yesterday I now realise I should never have compared the good workers of Aer Lingus to a pack of monkeys.

It was most unfair to the monkeys of the world and I apologise wholeheartedly for any offence caused. I hope the feeble-brained primates forgive me.

great rebuttal :rolleyes:

El Stuntman

yet another update on this!!!

(slightly OT; anyone remember the film The Neverending Story? well that's what this is starting to feel like...)

on 11th July one of AL's 'consumer response representatives' wrote me the following letter (names changed otherwise it's verbatim)

<< Dear El Stuntman,

Thank you for your correspondence,

Please accept my sincerest apologies on behalf of Aer lingus for the inconvenience caused by the cancellation of Flight EI109 on 10 April 2006, and also for the delay in response to your letter.

I can confirm that I have authorised our Reservations Department to refund the relevant amount back to the original form of payment. This will appear on your credit card in the near future.

If I can be of any further assistance to you, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thankk you for choosing Aer Lingus. Your support is much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Gimp Monkey
Consumer Response Representative >>

"whoo-hoo it's finally over" thought our hero

ah sweet innocence!!

I got €1380 onto my credit card that same week. Only problem was that the total cost of my flights was €2465!! I patiently waited to see if this would come through but cracked today. After trying and failing to speak to Mr Gimp Monkey this morning due to Aer Lingus's oh-so-customer friendly phone service, I've now penned the following in search of my remaining cash.

<<Gimp Monkey
Aer Lingus Customer Relations
Head Office Building
Collinstown
Dublin Airport

BY LETTER AND FAX (01 886 3832)

04 August 2006

Ref: Aer Lingus reference #xxxx, your letter of 11 July 2006

Dear Gimp Monkey,

I refer to my letters of 2 May, 19 May, and 26 June and your subsequent letter of 11 July (attached).

In your letter of 11 July, you “authorised our Reservations Department to refund the relevant amount back to the original form of payment. This will appear on your credit card in the near future”.

This was all very nice (if 3 months late) and I then expected to receive my full refund onto my credit card. Since then, three amounts of €460.01 were received onto my credit card in mid July totaling €1,380.
However the total amount due to me is €2,465 i.e. a shortfall of €1,085.

I don’t know whether this shortfall is due to incompetence or deliberate omission and I don’t really care. If I do not receive the balance due to me within 28 days, I will lodge a Small Claims Court claim for this balance. I will also ensure that as many journalists as possible are appraised of the details of this case so that your ‘customer service’ record can be commented upon in the press.
As they say, you can’t buy publicity like that!
Your move. I look forward to either receiving the balance before 31 August or seeing you in court.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if queries. I can be contacted on 086 xxx xxxx or alternatively on el.stuntman@stuntman.com.

Yours Sincerely,

____________________________
El Stuntman>>

As you may be able to tell, my patience is somewhat short!!

what do you think, I am hopping mad with these monkeys!!!?? anyone got any similar experience with AL, this level of 'customer service' to me is just plain stupid as I will now go out of my way to avoid flying with them again and will certainly try to actively dissuade any friends/family/dogs in the street also

what do you think, any odds they will pay up in time, I'm offering 5/1!!

Bluetonic

My advice to you would be to not take up letter wirting as a profession. I don't think I've read such an unprofessional letter in a long time.

You should have gotten an older person to help.

Why lower yourself to Aer Lingus standards?

El Stuntman

Bluetonic wrote:

My advice to you would be to not take up letter wirting as a profession. I don't think I've read such an unprofessional letter in a long time.

You should have gotten an older person to help.

Why lower yourself to Aer Lingus standards?

LOL

Ok Bluetonic I won't take up letter 'wirting' as a profession!! God I hope that was meant to be ironic (and not the patronising way it did come across)....if not may sweet jebus have mercy on us all

Actually I thought couching the letter in words that are likely to be understood by the AL monkeys might help my cause; you have to adjust your wirting style to your audience Mr Wirter!!

<<wirting furiously>>

markpb

It probably should have been more patronising. If you think writing immature and unprofessional letters will make their staff hurry up with your refund, you're (probably) in for a big surprise.

A simple letter saying you're grateful for the refund of x but you're still waiting for the remaining x to be credited to your account would be more effective.

Anyone working in customer services will read your letter, get snotty with you and put you to the back of the pile. Politeness never hurts, even when you're dealing with incompetence.

El Stuntman

markpb wrote:

It probably should have been more patronising. If you think writing immature and unprofessional letters will make their staff hurry up with your refund, you're (probably) in for a big surprise.

A simple letter saying you're grateful for the refund of x but you're still waiting for the remaining x to be credited to your account would be more effective.

Anyone working in customer services will read your letter, get snotty with you and put you to the back of the pile. Politeness never hurts, even when you're dealing with incompetence.

In general I agree Mark and I am usually polite in all my dealings both as customer and employee. However I've already written them 3 very polite letters and their response has been at best inadequate (at worst downright dismissive) so thought I would try a change of tack to see if that produces any response. You reap what you sow and all that - after all if they had lived up to their end of the bargain there wouldn't be any of this aggro

if not, I'll file a SC claim against them - it's not personal, I just want them to live up to their word and repay my ticket costs in full as they have agreed to do in writing twice already

Our man in Havana

Nothing wrong with that letter. You simply told them pay me the balance by August 31 or see you in court. So they will either pay you or you go to court.

Tbh, I am amazed your patience has lasted this long.

El Stuntman

Bond-007 wrote:

Nothing wrong with that letter. You simply told them pay me the balance by August 31 or see you in court. So they will either pay you or you go to court.

Tbh, I am amazed your patience has lasted this long.

thank you meeester Bond, I appoint you my Consumer Affairs Director!!

I thought it was fairly clearcut myself

El Stuntman

putting aside all debate about my letter writing style, the threat to (a) sue them and (b) go to the press, obviously paid dividends as following my letter on Friday they rang me today (Bank Holiday!!) to say it would be sorted out immediately.
Is this a record for AL response time?

Threats work, long live rude and threatening letter writing!!

Our man in Havana

A result! Well done. Hope you get sorted soon.

El Stuntman

the beat goes on...

latest missive to my good friends at the world's best airline....

hopefully Bluetonic will approve of my writing style somewhat more this time...

Gimp Monkey,
Aer Lingus Customer Relations
Head Office Building
Collinstown
Dublin Airport

BY LETTER AND FAX (01 886 3832)

c.c. Mr Dermot Mannion, Aer Lingus

22 August 2006

Ref: notice of Court action against Aer Lingus, effective 31 August

Dear Gimp Monkey,

I refer to Senior Gimp Monkey's letter of 11th April, my letters of 2 May, 19 May, and 26 June and your subsequent letter of 11 July and my subsequent letter of 4th August.

In your letter of 11 July, you “authorised our Reservations Department to refund the relevant amount back to the original form of payment. This will appear on your credit card in the near future”.

As I stated in my letter of 4th August I have only received part-payment of this amount and there is still an amount of €1,085 outstanding. I further stated that if I did not receive this amount by 31 August, I would lodge a claim in the Courts to recover this amount.

Given that Aer Lingus have twice admitted their liability to me in writing and yet have failed to fully discharge that liability, I find myself with no alternative but to seek restitution through the Courts. I attach a copy of the claim that I will be making on 31st August if I have not received full payment by this date.

I will also be happy to share details of this case with journalist friends as I think Aer Lingus’s ‘customer service record’ in this incident is deserving of media scrutiny – to be quite frank, it has been an appalling example of how not to treat loyal customers.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if queries.

Yours Sincerely,

___________________________
El Stuntman

PhilipFromBosco

This thread seems to be going on as long as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I have learned in life that it's best to let by gones be by gones. If you keep thinking about trying to get that refund from Aer Lingus, it will churn you up inside, you will breed resentment. I know from my own experience, so I chose happiness over resentment, so now I just smile and the world smiles with me.

Well I'm sorry to say that is all for today and we were having such fun.

Isn't that right Bosco?

El Stuntman

PhilipFromBosco wrote:

This thread seems to be going on as long as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I have learned in life that it's best to let by gones be by gones. If you keep thinking about trying to get that refund from Aer Lingus, it will churn you up inside, you will breed resentment. I know from my own experience, so I chose happiness over resentment, so now I just smile and the world smiles with me.

Well I'm sorry to say that is all for today and we were having such fun.

Isn't that right Bosco?

I hope those disco biscuits were tasty....

Actually I feel that this whole episode has made me a better person