Aer Lingus cancelled my flight - compensation??

El Stuntman

Was due to fly out to NY today at 5.20pm with 4 others. We got to the airport and were told the flight was cancelled due to the plane being stuck in Malaga. They are now sending us on another flight at 9pm tomorrow.

I asked about compensation and was told we would get none.

Hopped on the web when i got home and found that under EC Regulation 261/2004, if a flight originating within the EU is cancelled less than 7 days before the scheduled time of departure and they do not re-route you within two hours of the scheduled time then you are allowed to claim compensation. The amount for flights over 3,500km is 600 euro per person.

Quite apart from the outrageous circumstances, does anyone have any practical experience of getting Aer Lingus to cough up? Seems to me to be fairly open and shut case but would love to hear from anyone else who this has happened to.

Thanks!

Victor

It might depend on why the plane was stuck in Malaga. I think its basicly down to did they have control over the delay.

If it was a flat tire it was in their control.

If hail stones damaged a flying surface, that was something outside their control.

El Stuntman

it was a technical fault with the place so was circumstances under their control. Just finished my letter to them - see below.

Aer Lingus Customer Care Unit
Aer Lingus Head Office
Dublin Airport
Ireland

10 April 2006

Re: compensation claim regarding cancellation of flight EI 109 on 10th April

Dear Sir/Madam,

We were due to fly to New York today on the above flight. There were 5 in our party travelling on three different tickets – enclosed. Booking references were 5AVLY2, 273NDS and

Aer Lingus cancelled this flight on April 10th with no prior warning.

We were told that we would be rerouted at 9pm on April 11th – i.e. a delay of 28 hours.

Under EC Regulation No 261/2004, I believe we are entitled to compensation from you as follows:

 The cancellation was due not due to circumstances beyond Aer Lingus’s control (a technical fault with your airplane)
 The flight was cancelled with less than 7 days notice.
 We were re-routed to a time that did not allow us to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach our final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

The Regulation is very clear that this is a case where we have the right to claim compensation and we are duly doing so.

Under the Regulation, the compensation due for flights of more than 3,500km (such as this one) is 600 Euro per passenger.
I look forward to receiving a cheque for same amount from you made payable to each affected member of our party:

BuffyBot

it was a technical fault with the place so was circumstances under their control

Not nesscarily. Not all technical faults are within the control of the airline.

corktina

solicitors letter needs sending I reckon and add the cost to the compo......(did you have Insurance at all?)

Celticfire

Very interested in seeing what the outcome of this will be....

Bluetonic

Twenty-three air passengers left stranded in Dublin
12/04/2006 - 08:12:19

Twenty-three Aer Lingus customers were reportedly left stranded at Dublin Airport last night because a plane due to bring them to New York was too small.

Reports this morning said the passengers were among 280 people due to fly to the US city on Monday, but were told their plane was stuck in Malaga due to technical difficulties.

A replacement plane was chartered for last night, but when it arrived, it was not big enough to accommodate everybody.

The 23 irate passengers left stranded by the move have reportedly been offered €1,200 in compensation and a reimbursement of their flight costs.

Fifteen of them are believed to have travelled to Heathrow this morning to board a direct flight to New York.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/04/12/story253734.html

BendiBus

corktina wrote:

solicitors letter needs sending I reckon and add the cost to the compo......(did you have Insurance at all?)

Now that would have been just a bit premature, would it not? I'm guessing you're one of those hilarious nuisance passengers you see on those airline/airport docu-soaps? Throw a tantrum rather than sort it out calmly

Our man in Havana

Plane being too small is deffo something within their control.

TempestSabre

Bond-007 wrote:

Plane being too small is deffo something within their control.

I'd assume they tried to charter a bigger plane but there was nothing else available. They are not like hire cars.

Bluetonic

Bond-007 wrote:

Plane being too small is deffo something within their control.

What a totally irrelevant comment. Those passangers affect by the replacement plane being too small have been offered compensation.

The original delay was casued by a set of factors outside Aer Lingus control and therefore noone is entitled to compensation.

parsi

I wouldn't particualrly mind if my city-break was curtailed and I ended up getting the flights for free and over a grand in compo...

El Stuntman

just so ye all know...

they paid us €1,200 each on the spot (600 for each cancelled flight - yes I was one of the oens who got cancelled twice!) and also refunded all flight costs (i.e. about another €500 each). so we basically got a free holiday on the back of the incompetence of AL

My advice to everyone is...know your rights under the EU Regs and be prepared to shout long and loud about them. As soon as we mentioned this to the senior AL guy on the ground, he caved in immediately!!

El Stuntman

Bluetonic wrote:

What a totally irrelevant comment. Those passangers affect by the replacement plane being too small have been offered compensation.

The original delay was casued by a set of factors outside Aer Lingus control and therefore noone is entitled to compensation.

Incorrect Blue esp. seeing as they paid up (twice!)

'technical fault' is within control of airline. Terrorist attack/snow etc etc is not

dowlingm

EI are playing a dangerous game, extending the 330s to NCE, AGP, DXB where normally they would sit in DUB or SNN for the day. Those 330s are tired from shuttling to and from SNN and EI don't have enough of them to lose one. The problem they have is that whereas a couple of years ago post-2001 you could have gotten an aircraft to sit in Dublin on a "power by the hour" basis the market is very tight now and everyone can make more money than PBTH would justify. Those new 330s can't arrive soon enough.

Bluetonic

El Stuntman wrote:

Incorrect Blue esp. seeing as they paid up (twice!)

'technical fault' is within control of airline. Terrorist attack/snow etc etc is not

I'd be interested to see where they accepted full liability for the original 'technical fault'.

Good will, isn't the same as accepting liability, which I've heard was the case here from AL.

dmeehan

my flight from SNN to BOS on Friday (29th April) was also cancelled
AL gave us dinner vouchers (friday & Saturday)and put us up in the Clare Inn for the night before hiring World Airways to fly us to Boston over 26 hours after the original cancelled flight.

slightly OT: the service provided by World Airways was farsuperior than that provided by Aer Lingus.

Our man in Havana

World Airways? Are they the airline of choice for the CIA?

Traffic

They provide services for the U.S. Air Force Air Mobility Command aka troop transport

BuffyBot

World Airways? Are they the airline of choice for the CIA?

Not nessecarily. They are a US based charter outfit, that have provided Aer Lingus with services before (most notably when one of their aircraft spent an entire season operating for Aer Lingus in Aer Lingus colours on the transatlantic routes). Like most North American charter outfits, they get a lot of military work at the moment.

TempestSabre

El Stuntman wrote:

I....
'technical fault' is within control of airline. Terrorist attack/snow etc etc is not

I doubt that its possible to operate any aircraft with 100% serviceability, or have a backup aircraft for every flight.

Lennoxschips

I can't afford to pay for my flights 100% of the time either, but I've never tried to use that as an excuse with Aer Lingus. "Sorry lads, the cheque comes in tomorrow, I swear! Ah go on, there's spare seats and all!"

TempestSabre

Lennoxschips wrote:

I can't afford to pay for my flights 100% of the time either, but I've never tried to use that as an excuse with Aer Lingus. "Sorry lads, the cheque comes in tomorrow, I swear! Ah go on, there's spare seats and all!"

In english?

El Stuntman

an update for anyone who is interested

as already posted; they gave me my 1200 EU-mandated compensation in cash at the airport. Under law they had no choice here.

I also got a letter from their Duty Manager (Jim Rogers) saying they would refund all flight costs to my credit card (this on 11th April). Given that I had paid for 5 tickets costing over €2,500 I was greatly looking forward to seeing this on my c.c. statement!!

End of April rolled around and, surprise, no refund!

I wrote them a letter on 2 May reminding them they owed me this cash and enclosing a copy of the letter AL had given me.
No response.

Wrote another letter on 19 May in slightly less polite terms.
No response.

Wrote yet another letter on 26 June - no response as yet. I've said I'll take legal action if I don't get my refund by 31st July.

To me this is open and shut - they have admitted their liability in writing and are now ignoring me hoping that I'll go away!! I'm a prettty determined f$cker so this is not going to happen...surely though it should be easier than this??

Anyone else have similar problems with these bastardos? Small Claims Court looks good to force them to pay it over and I am actually looking forward to it at this stage...will happily invite along some journalists too

Bluetonic

I preusme all the letters you sent were registered post?

Our man in Havana

The complaints handling at Aer Lingus is nothing short of shambolic. I am not surprised in the slightest that you have had no reply from them. It was stated in one of the papers that it could take 12 weeks for a response to a letter. It was do bad that govt officals went out to Aer Lingus head office to see wtf was going on.

Good luck with the small claims court. Hope you get your case sorted soon.

dowlingm

Stuntman -

I would try these guys next
http://www.aviationreg.ie/

Ruu_Old

Aer Lingus cancelled the flight I was on from Chicago to Dublin, January '05 I think it was. There had been an accident with one of the planes in Dublin but at least they paid for the passengers hotels for the night and gave us food vouchers for the airport.

Bards

Get a solictor to write a "Solictors" letter and get Aer Lingus to pay for this as well. More than likely they will pay up upon receipt of this

Saruman

Ruu wrote:

Aer Lingus cancelled the flight I was on from Chicago to Dublin, January '05 I think it was. There had been an accident with one of the planes in Dublin but at least they paid for the passengers hotels for the night and gave us food vouchers for the airport.

Thats decent of them.. they are not bound by same rules as the flight did not begin in an EU country.

secret_squirrel

El Stuntman wrote:

Anyone else have similar problems with these bastardos? Small Claims Court looks good to force them to pay it over and I am actually looking forward to it at this stage...will happily invite along some journalists too

Its probably their very shambolic customer complaints department rather than any deliberate delaying tactics.

Address your letter to the Jim Rogders guy - being the duty manager he will be based at the Airport rather than a head office muppet.

Alternatively address it to the CEO Dermot Manion.

For maximum impact CC it to all the senior AL management names you can get.

Victor

Saruman wrote:

Thats decent of them.. they are not bound by same rules as the flight did not begin in an EU country.

The Americans have similar rules, although I suspect (a) his trip originated in the EU, but not that particular leg (b) it might apply to all EU carriers regardless of origin / destination - one would have to check the wording.

Ruu_Old

Victor wrote:

The Americans have similar rules, although I suspect (a) his trip originated in the EU, but not that particular leg (b) it might apply to all EU carriers regardless of origin / destination - one would have to check the wording.

Yeah it was the return leg of the flight back to Dublin but they had no squabbles about it, I didnt have to ask. I was damn glad of the bed and food.

El Stuntman

secret_squirrel wrote:

Its probably their very shambolic customer complaints department rather than any deliberate delaying tactics.

Address your letter to the Jim Rogders guy - being the duty manager he will be based at the Airport rather than a head office muppet.

Alternatively address it to the CEO Dermot Manion.

For maximum impact CC it to all the senior AL management names you can get.

I did send each letter to this Jim Rogers dude as well

tbh, given all the aggro to date, I am quite looking forward to going to Court!!

it's all a bit silly given that they have already told me, in writing, that they would make this refund to my credit card - should have had this months ago without having to go chasing them

does make me mad that my taxes subsidise these incompetent buffoons and now they will cripple the privatised version of Aer Lingus with their ludicrous demands...makes it very apparent that all state and semi-state employees have zero interest in their customers (i.e. you and me, the taxpayer who pays their wages) and are only interested in maintaining their stress-free working conditions and generous pay/pension packages!!

Feckers :mad:

El Stuntman

not strictly on topic but illustrates my point...taken from RTE this am

"Delays on Aer Lingus flights today

06 July 2006 10:31
SIPTU staff have begun a protest meeting which will cause delays at Dublin, Cork and Shannon Airports.

The company says that although the protest meeting, which began at 9.45am, will last for around an hour and a quarter it will cause delays throughout the day.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Aer Lingus Chief Executive Dermot Mannion said the company had attempted to minimise disruption.

1,500 to 2,000 passengers on seven flights at Dublin, Cork and Shannon will be affected directly by the stoppage.

Aer Lingus wants passengers to check in as normal so disruption can be minimised.

SIPTU says the company has failed to agree details of staffing levels, pensions and working arrangements. It wants these finalised before any possible privatisation.

Aer Lingus, which met with SIPTU yesterday, says it is confident that all outstanding issues will be resolved."

SIPTU-speak translated into English - 'we are the dinosaurs from Planet Union. Given that no-one in their right mind in the private sector recognises unions (employer or employee), we will continue to pick on the one sector we know will always give in to our ludicrous demands - the Government, this way we hope to maintain some semblance of being relevant in a world which is passing us by...."

Victor

El Stuntman wrote:

does make me mad that my taxes subsidise

Only in the 2001 bailout has the government ever invested in Aer Lingus, everything AL owns is from its own profits made on the back of borrowings.

BuffyBot

Aer Lingus cancelled the flight I was on from Chicago to Dublin, January '05 I think it was. There had been an accident with one of the planes in Dublin but at least they paid for the passengers hotels for the night and gave us food vouchers for the airport.

In fairness, any airline in this situation would/should do this in this kind of situation as it's standard practice - and I don't include low-cost carriers like Ryanair/easyJet.

El Stuntman

final post on this:

whoo-hoo, refund in full and a grovelling letter of apology from some AL gimp-monkey!!!

just shows it pays to make a fuss; I reckon I made about €1,000 from my US holiday as a result of AL's incompetence....

who's de man??

now, what can I blow €2,500 on this weekend?

Zambrotta

Yeah you are right about the compensation that you are due and I can't believe they tried to scam you like that.If you don't get your compensation make sure u call the consumer association or the citizen info office to get ur facts straight and then try to kick up a fuss in the media, go to the irish times and indo, newstalk, today fm, giveoutabout.com, I'm sure Gay Byrne would do it if he was still on air so go for live line. I'm sick of people in ireland just complaining about things and then not chasing it so do it for us all and don't let them get away with it.
World cup winner Zambrotta

secret_squirrel

Victor wrote:

Only in the 2001 bailout has the government ever invested in Aer Lingus, everything AL owns is from its own profits made on the back of borrowings.

There was no bailout in 2001 (it was against EU rules by then).

There were 1 or 2 bailouts before that under the Cahill Plan and others in the 1990's.

steve-o

Victor wrote:

everything AL owns is from its own profits made on the back of borrowings.

According to their latest accounts, their net assets are just over €400m. Of that, total accumulated profits are €38m. The balance is taxpayers money, including more than €220m from the Cahill Plan alone. On top of that it has a €170m pensions deficit which needs to be funded. That adds up to more than €500m in taxpayers money.

secret_squirrel

steve-o wrote:

According to their latest accounts, their net assets are just over €400m. Of that, total accumulated profits are €38m. The balance is taxpayers money, including more than €220m from the Cahill Plan alone. On top of that it has a €170m pensions deficit which needs to be funded. That adds up to more than €500m in taxpayers money.

How is any of that useful?

By that definition every Asset Aerlingus has is Tax Payers money since its owned by the Government.

The point being made was there is a difference between money specifically for a bailout vs money invested in Aer Lingus over the years as a state owned (and financed) company.

Indeed EU rules permit continual investment into a state owned company by the state as a shareholder. What EU rules do not permit is bailouts by Governments in times of troubles.

Oh and fyi - its a potential 170m pension hole should the fund be changed to be index linked.

At the moment its not and is in surplus.

It should also be noted that the Government was also responsible for more than its fair share of Aer Lingus' ills, by using it numerous times as a political football.

The IPO now - a year later that it should have been to maximise both the capital raised and revenue for the Government, is a fine example of this.

Victor

secret_squirrel wrote:

There was no bailout in 2001 (it was against EU rules by then). There were 1 or 2 bailouts before that under the Cahill Plan and others in the 1990's.

Apologies, it would have been under the Cahill Plan then. 2001 was when Sabena and Swissair went to the wall

El Stuntman

I see they are at it again, having stranded another planeload of passengers in Malaga for over 24hrs already and 'hoping' to get a charter place to get them home today..

compo = €250 * 400 = €100,000 plus flight refunds plus cost of chartering another plane.

have these fools any idea what they are doing?

btw, got 3 of my 5 tickets refunded to my credit card today (only 3 months late!), awaiting final 2....:)

secret_squirrel

El Stuntman wrote:

have these fools any idea what they are doing?

Of course they dont know what they are doing - they strand fare paying passengers just for fun :rolleyes:

Do you know how difficult it is hire a plane at this time of year? and how full most flights are? And how easy it is for events outside of an Airlines control to throw their schedules into chaos?

Would you like to pay the huge amounts of extra money it would cost you in fares to keep 4 or 5 planes on standby for this type of incident? I think not.

All airlines keep 1 or 2 planes on standby by for this type of emergency, but it only takes 3-4 types of these incidents in quick succession for even the best airline to be overwhelmed.

For every incident like the one in malaga, and the one today on the outbound Malaga flight there are 4-5 others that are averted before they get this far, or that result in minimal delays due to re-routing and use of standby aircraft.

I would guess that Aer Lingus are probably picking up the hotel bills for the people who are stuck in Malaga, thats what they used to do.

During the recent bomb scares Aer Lingus bust a gut to get people out, unlike Ryan Air who cancelled 20 flights in the first one.

Atleast try to establish some objectivity before ranting.

El Stuntman

secret_squirrel wrote:

Of course they dont know what they are doing - they strand fare paying passengers just for fun :rolleyes:

Do you know how difficult it is hire a plane at this time of year? and how full most flights are? And how easy it is for events outside of an Airlines control to throw their schedules into chaos?

Would you like to pay the huge amounts of extra money it would cost you in fares to keep 4 or 5 planes on standby for this type of incident? I think not.

All airlines keep 1 or 2 planes on standby by for this type of emergency, but it only takes 3-4 types of these incidents in quick succession for even the best airline to be overwhelmed.

For every incident like the one in malaga, and the one today on the outbound Malaga flight there are 4-5 others that are averted before they get this far, or that result in minimal delays due to re-routing and use of standby aircraft.

I would guess that Aer Lingus are probably picking up the hotel bills for the people who are stuck in Malaga, thats what they used to do.

During the recent bomb scares Aer Lingus bust a gut to get people out, unlike Ryan Air who cancelled 20 flights in the first one.

Atleast try to establish some objectivity before ranting.

Once they are privatised, do you think their service levels will get worse or better?

and there was no suggestion that this latest screw-upwas caused by events outside AL control, 100% their own fault - again!

secret_squirrel

El Stuntman wrote:

Once they are privatised, do you think their service levels will get worse or better?

I expect it will remain the much the same. Flight cancellations are generally caused by 'acts of god' type events than any deliberate policy on the part of the airline, unless they are cancelled through lack of passengers.

and there was no suggestion that this latest screw-upwas caused by events outside AL control, 100% their own fault - again!

I dont know where you got that info. Afaik The plane currently stuck in Malaga was damaged by a vehicle on the ground. Its grounded until its repaired and there are no repair facilities in Malaga. How is that Aer Lingus' fault?

El Stuntman

sorry mr squirrel you are right and I think I owe an apology

Having seen the astonishing manner in which they were managing check-in at Dublin airport yesterday I now realise I should never have compared the good workers of Aer Lingus to a pack of monkeys.

It was most unfair to the monkeys of the world and I apologise wholeheartedly for any offence caused. I hope the feeble-brained primates forgive me.

secret_squirrel

El Stuntman wrote:

sorry mr squirrel you are right and I think I owe an apology

Having seen the astonishing manner in which they were managing check-in at Dublin airport yesterday I now realise I should never have compared the good workers of Aer Lingus to a pack of monkeys.

It was most unfair to the monkeys of the world and I apologise wholeheartedly for any offence caused. I hope the feeble-brained primates forgive me.

great rebuttal :rolleyes:

El Stuntman

yet another update on this!!!

(slightly OT; anyone remember the film The Neverending Story? well that's what this is starting to feel like...)

on 11th July one of AL's 'consumer response representatives' wrote me the following letter (names changed otherwise it's verbatim)

<< Dear El Stuntman,

Thank you for your correspondence,

Please accept my sincerest apologies on behalf of Aer lingus for the inconvenience caused by the cancellation of Flight EI109 on 10 April 2006, and also for the delay in response to your letter.

I can confirm that I have authorised our Reservations Department to refund the relevant amount back to the original form of payment. This will appear on your credit card in the near future.

If I can be of any further assistance to you, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thankk you for choosing Aer Lingus. Your support is much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Gimp Monkey
Consumer Response Representative >>

"whoo-hoo it's finally over" thought our hero

ah sweet innocence!!

I got €1380 onto my credit card that same week. Only problem was that the total cost of my flights was €2465!! I patiently waited to see if this would come through but cracked today. After trying and failing to speak to Mr Gimp Monkey this morning due to Aer Lingus's oh-so-customer friendly phone service, I've now penned the following in search of my remaining cash.

<<Gimp Monkey
Aer Lingus Customer Relations
Head Office Building
Collinstown
Dublin Airport

BY LETTER AND FAX (01 886 3832)

04 August 2006

Ref: Aer Lingus reference #xxxx, your letter of 11 July 2006

Dear Gimp Monkey,

I refer to my letters of 2 May, 19 May, and 26 June and your subsequent letter of 11 July (attached).

In your letter of 11 July, you “authorised our Reservations Department to refund the relevant amount back to the original form of payment. This will appear on your credit card in the near future”.

This was all very nice (if 3 months late) and I then expected to receive my full refund onto my credit card. Since then, three amounts of €460.01 were received onto my credit card in mid July totaling €1,380.
However the total amount due to me is €2,465 i.e. a shortfall of €1,085.

I don’t know whether this shortfall is due to incompetence or deliberate omission and I don’t really care. If I do not receive the balance due to me within 28 days, I will lodge a Small Claims Court claim for this balance. I will also ensure that as many journalists as possible are appraised of the details of this case so that your ‘customer service’ record can be commented upon in the press.
As they say, you can’t buy publicity like that!
Your move. I look forward to either receiving the balance before 31 August or seeing you in court.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if queries. I can be contacted on 086 xxx xxxx or alternatively on el.stuntman@stuntman.com.

Yours Sincerely,

____________________________
El Stuntman>>

As you may be able to tell, my patience is somewhat short!!

what do you think, I am hopping mad with these monkeys!!!?? anyone got any similar experience with AL, this level of 'customer service' to me is just plain stupid as I will now go out of my way to avoid flying with them again and will certainly try to actively dissuade any friends/family/dogs in the street also

what do you think, any odds they will pay up in time, I'm offering 5/1!!

Bluetonic

My advice to you would be to not take up letter wirting as a profession. I don't think I've read such an unprofessional letter in a long time.

You should have gotten an older person to help.

Why lower yourself to Aer Lingus standards?