What school of Buddism are you

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

Wow, I think you are an e-bodhisattiva!

Thats a new one, thanks.

DublinWriter

Lapsed Mahayana.

I was going to say "I am a lapsed Mahayana", but the englightened among us know that that statement would be an oxymoron!

Asiaprod

DublinWriter wrote:

Lapsed Mahayana.

I was going to say "I am a lapsed Mahayana", but the englightened among us know that that statement would be an oxymoron!

It would indeed, would'nt it:)
Why lapsed, what turned you away

DublinWriter

Asiaprod wrote:

It would indeed, would'nt it:)
Why lapsed, what turned you away

I guess after learning that Buddhism had more schisms and in-fighting down through the years than Christianity ever had.

My problem is basically with the concept of prescriptive 'Schools of Belief'.

These days, I'm more of an à la carte Buddhist!

Asiaprod

DublinWriter wrote:

I guess after learning that Buddhism had more schisms and in-fighting down through the years than Christianity ever had.

My problem is basically with the concept of prescriptive 'Schools of Belief'.

These days, I'm more of an à la carte Buddhist!

Would it surprise you to learn that that indeed à la carte might be the way to go. Who taught the original Buddha? He did.

My problem is basically with the concept of prescriptive 'Schools of Belief'.

I have touched on this many times, humans have a propensity to destroy through pride. The heart always knows what is right. Listen to your heart. If it tells you something is wrong, it is. Buddhism is unique to each individual. You are not me and I am not you. At the end of the day, you correctly decide what is right or wrong. If that does not happen, the teacher is wrong. The whole point behind Buddhism is that only you can decide what is wright or wrong for you. It is not a religion that lays down rules and regulations. People always fight for a great number of reasons. The truth is within you, only you can let it out. Believe in yourself, have confidence in what you believe, act according to what you believe is right. Do not depend on anyone else to fix it for you. It is not as hard as it seems. Spend time with yourself and reflect. Then act on what you reveal to yourself. And alway seek ideas from others

maitri

Hi Asiaprod. Thanks for long and interesting answer!

Asiaprod wrote:

The issue with being a Buddhist (..) is not which school may historically be correct, because they have all been influenced over the last 2,500 years by who ever acted as the chief reprresentative for that school, but by which school feels correct and whos teaching can be applied to today (2006). Buddhism cannot remain stationary, but must also progress over the years. As mankind gets smarter, Buddhism has to become more exact in what it teaches and must have teachings that relate more closely to the current age.

Totally agree! And that goes for all religions and philosophies, I think.

Asiaprod wrote:

A prime example of a flavor of Buddhism steeped in the monastic school would be Tibetan and the man I very much admire, the Dalai Lama. Here is a wonderful man with a great message, but he does not come from a western upbringing. What he says is very much influenced by his upbringing and culture in Tibet. (...) He is 100% against Oral and Anal sex, Homosexuals and lesbians, just to mention a few issues. These issues are different for us in this age and in our own respective countries. .

I've read that the Dalai Lama is not such an absoluttist when it comes to such questions, after all. From an interview with Pema Chödrön, Alice Walker and Judy Bench:

"Alice Walker: You know, when he (Dalai Lama) was here at the peace conference he was confronted by gay men and lesbian women and he readily admitted that he really didn’t know. He didn’t seem rigid on it.

But also, when there is wisdom about, we should have it! Wisdom belongs to the people. We must never be kept from wisdom by anybody telling us you can’t have it because you’re this that or the other."

This is very similiar to what you wrote, isn't it?: "The Buddha stated that his teachings are for all mankind, not just Indians or Tibetans."

The quote from the interview is, by the way, from this very interesting article

I think that people like Pema Chödrön (and the Dalai Lama) are trying to share old wisdom from the tibetan tradition in a way that is helpful also to modern people in the West.
Some of the teachings of Pema that I've found very helpful in my own life are the thoughts of accepting yourself as you are right now without trying to run away:

yetangche
(Somebody has had problems with the tabulator here. I've figured out "í" to mean: ' and "ó" to mean: -)

Asiaprod wrote:

The branch I follow is directly related from Mahayana. It was refined by the Tientai school in China who set about condensing down all the thousands of writing attributed to the Original Buddha. They realized it just was not possible for him to have written down all those texts in his life time. This more condensed form spread on down through Asia and crossed into Japan where it got further refined down into application for daily life by the Monk Nichiren (School of Nichiren Buddhism) which holds that we all have the potential to achieve enlightenment (or Buddhahood, the same state as the enlightened Buddha) in our current life time..

I have never heard about your school before. Do you have some more information? Maybe a link or two? Don't think we have that branch here in Norway...

Asiaprod wrote:

A master is said to have been effective when the disciple turns around [/I]and teaches the master.

I have a teacher in philosophy that I think go by that principle. Very nice indeed!

Hi Zag!

You wrote:
"I read a quote by the Dalai Lama,
"You cannot help people who are confused and suffering, if you are confused and suffering yourself".
I have seen this in life, yet I do not want this to become an excuse for my own selfishness! "

Actually I think there just might be a small thing or two that we can do for eachother, even though we are just "confused fellow sufferers" I am not very learned in this, so it is just my very personal conviction.
Reminds me of a text by Leonard Cohen:
"There is a crack in everything - that is where the light gets in." I don't think we have to be "perfect" to do things. (At least, that is what I hope...;) )

Maitri

maitri

Sorry, don't know what happened. Seems I got what I wrote twice...

zag

maitri wrote:

Actually I think there just might be a small thing or two that we can do for eachother, even though we are just "confused fellow sufferers" I am not very learned in this, so it is just my very personal conviction.
Reminds me of a text by Leonard Cohen:
"There is a crack in everything - that is where the light gets in." I don't think we have to be "perfect" to do things. (At least, that is what I hope...;) )
Maitri

I agree, it is somewhat of a generalisation. We can of course help people when we suffer ourselves. I mean, I could be very sick, but I could still make someone laugh, or give them advice.

But, I think that statement emphasises that fact that when we are no longer suffering, we are in a much better position to help others, and more willing to 'show them the way' that leads to the cessation of suffering. I think that might make more sense!

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

e.

But, I think that statement emphasises that fact that when we are no longer suffering, we are in a much better position to help others, and more willing to 'show them the way' that leads to the cessation of suffering. I think that might make more sense!

Oooh, lesson 1. When we are suffering we are in a GREAT position to help others by showing that we are not prepared to let this suffering defeat us. The question is, are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?
Sorry.

zag

Asiaprod wrote:

Oooh, lesson 1. When we are suffering we are in a GREAT position to help others by showing that we are not prepared to let this suffering defeat us. The question is, are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?
Sorry.

No need to be sorry

Are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?

It depends.

If it is a physical task that the person needs help with, like building a wall, or carrying coal, I will always help people, regardless of my own suffering.

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first".

So, judging from that, I find it hard to give emotional support to someone, when emotionally I am suffering myself.

But, being young, and reasonably healthy, I can always help with a physical task. Am I making any sense?

maitri

zag wrote:

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first".

So, judging from that, I find it hard to give emotional support to someone, when emotionally I am suffering myself.

Maybe - sometimes - the best way to help others is to give emotional support to yourself?

Since, I suppose, after all we are all interconnected.

Maybe you can just accept that, right now, you are a wonderful person in a very very bad mood? :mad:

Like in the old buddhist saying: "Just don't do something, stay there!"

(Speaking of which: Right now I am a ....hmmm... wonderful person ...eh...very close to wanting to kill two people who are chatting very loudly in the library I am sitting in, because they are disturbing my wonderful thoughts about how to be a "good buddhist". :eek: )

But help with physical tasks is very nice, too!


Maitri

coffee_cake

zag wrote:

No need to be sorry

Are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?

It depends.

If it is a physical task that the person needs help with, like building a wall, or carrying coal, I will always help people, regardless of my own suffering.

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first".

So, judging from that, I find it hard to give emotional support to someone, when emotionally I am suffering myself.

But, being young, and reasonably healthy, I can always help with a physical task. Am I making any sense?

The best way to help someone emotionally is probably when you are in a good position to do so. Otherwise you might just make things worse if you're in a bad mood. When you help yourself, you know what you did to help yourself so maybe you could help others in the same way, plus you will be better able to help. Nothing wrong with that

Speaking of which I wouldn't mind some myself, bloody first day of work and I do not like it :mad:
er.
</whine> >.>

Bodhidharma

I am not really a member of any school but i do have a tendency to lean towards Zen.

The poetry would probably be the decisive factor, it has been hugely influential.

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first"

This one I can also relate too. It was my way of escaping for years. I would disappear for an entire week. There is a lot of merit to be said for I cannot get involved because with me being in a bad mood, or depressed, I might just make things worse. But then we say it the next time, and the time after that, and after that. It becomes a defense mechanism and becomes our usual pattern. This pattern really needs to be reversed if you want to find happiness.
In my case, [SIZE=+0]I learned that it really is not a good idea. Unless the time was spent in say chanting or meditation on the issues in question. The nature of the human mind, however, is quite often to make things worse than they really are. Trying to find a solution in this state often leads to more and more complicated solutions which usually end up failing. We love ourselves too much and any decision we come to usually is biased in our favor. Buddhism is about breaking circles. We are trying to basically kick ourselves out of our usual pattern. That is why it is important in this scenario to make a point of at least trying to giving emotional help to others. Even if you only listen, you are taking action. I found that by thinking of, or listening to, other peoples problems, I manages to freed my mind from my own hunt for solutions, and the perfect solution I was looking for revealed itself all on its own. Another scenario is where I am talking to the person I am are trying to support and suddenly they come out with a statement or concept out of the blue which is the solution my own problem. It is a funny thing with Buddhism that the more you help others, the more help we receive back in return. Try it next time, track it on your new Blog. This really works. Of course there are times when you really cannot help the person, but in your newly-developed wisdom you can see it as one of those times when you just have to spend some time time sorting yourself out first. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]The point is try to look to change what you recognize as patters in your nature. These are the things that need to change in order for you to progress. [/SIZE]

Asiaprod

Bodhidharma wrote:

The poetry would probably be the decisive factor, it has been hugely influential.

Interesting, do tell more. I am not a poetry person myself. How do you find it influential? Do you seek answers within it? or do react to the situation in the poetry?

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Speaking of which I wouldn't mind some myself, bloody first day of work and I do not like it :mad:
er.
</whine> >.>

Aw, poor you. It will be the weekend soon;), then it all begins again.
Is this your first ever day of work or your first day of work in a new job

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

I have never heard about your school before. Do you have some more information? Maybe a link or two? Don't think we have that branch here in Norway...

Hi Maitri

Just cover a few points.
The Dalai Lama is very clear on the issue of gays and lesbians, his answer is a resounding NO way. He is a smart man and does not condem the people, he condems the actions.
The Buddha did indeed state that his teachings are for all mankind, not just Indians or Tibetans."

I also believe that people like this Pema Chödrön (and the Dalai Lama) are trying to share old wisdom from the tibetan tradition in a way that is helpful also to modern people in the West. And it is helpfull. And very relevent. My only comment here is that the wisdom needs to be refined to deal with our social and cultural issues.
Re my school, I have posted a couple of links below. Start with these and see what you think.. I am also a member of the lay organization, I dont believe all that they say, but I am proud to be a member. They do an awful lot for world peace, but like every group they have their problems to. Here is their Swedish website. I know they do have a group in Norway. Dont get hung up on the organization. Its the Buddhism and the people that count. And as I aways say, people are the one that do the screwing up.
http://www.ssgi.se/

These links deal withthe Buddhism aspect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichiren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tientai

Regards
Asia

coffee_cake

Asiaprod wrote:

Aw, poor you. It will be the weekend soon;), then it all begins again.
Is this your first ever day of work or your first day of work in a new job

It's just for the week, I'm covering as a receptionist in the international study institute. never done office work before

maitri

Asiaprod wrote:

Dont get hung up on the organization. Its the Buddhism and the people that count. And as I aways say, people are the one that do the screwing up.
[/SIZE]

Hi Asia!
Probably very good advice!

I am not really "out" as a buddhist. Sometimes I wonder if making the distinction between buddhists and non-buddhists is really helpful...
Would calling myself a buddhist not make a gap between me and my catholic mother (who still, I think, considers me catholic, whatever I say) and between me and muslim friends an family (reform muslims considerer all people of good will to be muslims, by the way )?
And can I say that I really am a buddhist?
If I am a buddhist, aren't we all, anyway?
I only know that after studying it for some years (to and from) I am starting more and more to see the world through "buddhist glasses"...
And that the buddhist thoughts seem helpful. And I am really only concerned about what is practically helpful... Not what you call it.

But I tried some weeks ago a bit cautiously to ventilate the topic "maybe I am buddhist" to some friends, who started laughing and said: "Of course you are buddhist! And you have been so for years. As a matter of fact you were really buddhist at the time when you were still Christian, too."
So..wellwell.


Regards
Maitri


PS: It was cool to find out from your links, Asia, that I have such a splendid (nick)name-brother: Maitreya. Cool! ds.

Bodhidharma

Asiaprod wrote:

Interesting, do tell more. I am not a poetry person myself. How do you find it influential? Do you seek answers within it? or do react to the situation in the poetry?

Well, i like it because it doesnt actually say anything concrete but it tells you everything. There are too many people seeking definitive answers when asking the question is more important. Zen poetry is so peaceful and at the same time difficult to explain.The poetry and sayings of Zen masters were used as a means of attaning enlightenment by freeing the mind of predefined ways of thinking, and i can really see how they can do this.

The poems also have a calming effect on me, and they are often very funny.

coffee_cake

I wrote a poem on buddhism once.

Anyway.
Could you show us some zen poetry, I've never come across any. Your favourites, maybe.

Asiaprod

Bodhidharma wrote:

The poems also have a calming effect on me, and they are often very funny.

Please post your favourite one and we can all learn to appriciate it.

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

I wrote a poem on buddhism once.

Please post that one too if you still have it. I would love to see it.

Oh, have a nice day in the office, only two more days to go.

Here is your mantra for the day...
I will not whine, I will not whine, I will not whine. A million of those should do the trick:)

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

I am not really "out" as a buddhist.

Hi Maitri!
How are things in the Library, all peaceful I trust.

I am not really "out" as a buddhist. Sometimes I wonder if making the distinction between buddhists and non-buddhists is really helpfull

I think most Buddhists would say it was very helpfull to make the distinction in that it is a declaration of belief in the teacher.

Would calling myself a buddhist not make a gap between me and my catholic mother (who still, I think, considers me catholic, whatever I say) and between me and muslim friends an family (reform muslims considerer all people of good will to be muslims, by the way)?

Yes, it could indeed. But you would have to let it happen. So it really is down to you and what you believe. Its not been any problem for me and I have Christain parents, as well as friends from just about all major religions. Never had any problems with them. I have found that people seem to be very accepting of Buddhists.

And can I say that I really am a buddhist?

Well, only you can answer that one. Do you feel like one, do you act like one?

If I am a buddhist, aren't we all, anyway?

To a degree, yes we are. But in order to really be something, we also have to take responsibility and declare that we are one. One cannot be a secret Buddhist, there is no point in denying what we are.

I only know that after studying it for some years (to and from) I am starting more and more to see the world through "buddhist glasses"...
And that the buddhist thoughts seem helpful. And I am really only concerned about what is practically helpful... Not what you call it.

No problem with that, sounds good.

But I tried some weeks ago a bit cautiously to ventilate the topic "maybe I am buddhist" to some friends, who started laughing and said: "Of course you are buddhist! And you have been so for years. As a matter of fact you were really buddhist at the time when you were still Christian, too."
So..wellwell.

You should have asked them what made them see you as a Buddhist, that would be interesting to hear.


Regards
The Cat.

zag

Oh, I'd love to read your poem!

coffee_cake

Asiaprod wrote:

Oh, have a nice day in the office, only two more days to go.

Here is your mantra for the day...
I will not whine, I will not whine, I will not whine. A million of those should do the trick:)

I do not whine!!

...

Anyway, today is fine. I had to go give out to some immigration people because they wouldnt issue some of our students with visas. Because they're lazy and weird. But I sorted it out now.

And eh I don't know about posting the poem =p it was more about me than buddhism really, and how I came across it. I guess. It's very vague. And useless, I'm sure.

maitri

Hi big Cat!

Thanks for friendly long answer.

Library's been more noisy today than ever!

Luckily for me - and the loudly and happily laughing and chatting "fellow sufferers" here at the library - I am in a good mood today - so I only got a bit irritated no and then, and so I didn't try to murder anyone with rebuking glances today. (Just a small rebuking sigh!)

I will think and reflect more about what you wrote.

Basicly I feel that "the teacher" is something inside me (and all people), more that a historical person that I/we can only know through other peoples writings. You might call this thing "inside" Buddhanature. (It might also be the same that other people call God or Allah or Real Self or Truth or the Good...) I am, however, very grateful to the historical Buddha and his followers for all that they have contributed to the world and to me personally. The Buddha inspires me and reminds me of the Buddhanature in myself and all sentient beings. Therefore I have a small statue of the Buddha (Standing smiling friendly with a ball in his hand) in my livingroom. (My mother bought it to me when I was still a catholic) I also have started wearing a small buddha-necklace.

But when it comes to calling myself a buddhist I still hesitate. It's like my inner voice says: "Wait. Don't rush into anything. Don't force anything. No haste. Just let things happen." (Maybe my inner voice is Taoist You never know...).

I guess my friends call me buddhist because of the statue and the necklace and buddhist meditation-practice and Rigpa Calendar and being vegetarian (well pescotarian, maybe...) - and an absolute horror towards any notion of any "absolute truth", which, by the way, they share.

Regards from another Tiger.
(according to Chinese Astrology)

Hi Bluewolf!

Come with the poem!
Please!

coffee_cake

I'll probably edit this blank after a while, ok?

It actually still needs work thanks to the last verse being so long, and it is honestly bad, but hey

"Where is the light?" I asked of the stone
"Long have I looked and sore are my eyes
Where is the light to show me my way?"
"The light is around and within you", said the stone
"Look with your heart and not with your eyes
Then you will find the way."

"What is the path?" I asked of the wind
"Long have I searched and sore are my feet
What is the path to guide my way?"
"The path is around and within you", said the wind
"Search with your heart and not with your feet
Then you will find the way."

"When will I wake?" I asked of the stream
"Long have I dreamt; I still dream
When will I wake to the end of the way?"
The stream did not answer;
I asked with my mouth and not my heart
Otherwise, then, I might have seen
The proper question - what stream?

maitri

Hi Bluewolf!

It is lovely!!
Thank you!

Don't you dare deleting it! Let it stay, please.


Maitri

coffee_cake

For now

I can't remember which sutra I read that inspired the ending. A well known one anyway. Hmm.