What school of Buddism are you

Asiaprod

I am curious to know and learn of the different sects of Buddhism represented here on the forum.

I will start the ball rolling.

For the last 21 years I have been a practitioner of the Nichiren Shoshu School of Buddhism. It is a descended from Mahayana Buddhism that moved westward out of India to China where it was redefined under the Tiantai (Lotus Sutra) school of Buddhism. It then moved on down through Asia to Korea before finally taking root in Japan in the ancient capital of Nara. Again in the 13th century it was redefined by a Buddhist Monk by the name of Nichiren into its current form. It mainly differs from other schools of Buddhism in that it teaches that their is a form of enlightenment that can be attained in ones current life. This however should not be confused with that final enlightenment. That is, when we shake of all past accumulated Karma to become new born.

coffee_cake

Haven't decided on one yet. Might be inclined towards zen or mahayana.
If it's true theravadans aren't too inclined towards the bodhisattava vows then I possibly won't be going for that.
Tibetan's ok, but it seems to have some trouble with women...

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

If it's true theravadans aren't too inclined towards the bodhisattava vows then I possibly won't be going for that.quote]

Very cool that you mentioned these vows, these to me are of prime importance. For myself, they almost appear to be my roadmap to life. I commited my life to these vows only last summer on a bright summer morning up in the Japanese mountains. It was a turning point in my life to be sure.

coffee_cake

Only after 20 years? Why so long?
Can I ask how old you started practising buddhism at?

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Only after 20 years? Why so long?
Can I ask how old you started practising buddhism at?

Its 5pm and I am running for the door to get home for food, I am starving.
I will answer this as soon as I get home

The magic formula is by the way is 32 + 21 = 53:eek:

coffee_cake

Asiaprod wrote:

Its 5pm and I am running for the door to get home for food, I am starving.
I will answer this as soon as I get home

The magic formula is by the way is 32 + 21 = 53:eek:

You've been practising about as long as I've been alive >.<

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

You've been practising about as long as I've been alive >.<

I am definitly going to put you over my knee when I get home.:eek:

Ha, anyway back to your original question.
Why did I wait so long

Actually its very simple.
I went on a Buddhist retreat up in the mountains (just setting the right ambience here) and heard a great lecture on the role of the bodhisattava. How all the Buddhists of now, which we call the latter day of the law, were all thought to be people who had actually achieved enlightenment in a previous life, but had decided to return and be reborn as bodhisattava to help others. I woke early the next morning and went for a walk as dawn was breaking and I was overwhelmed by how peaceful, tranquil and beautiful a world we really live in. For some reason the vows of the bodhisattava really made sense to me, they were really a map to a happy and productive life:

The Vow of Participation..........I am alive and a part of this world
The Vow of Practice............... .Well for me faith in myself, practice of this Buddhism and study
The Vow of Joy..................... .Look around at the world in which I live
The Vow of Action................. .I am letting no one **** this place up for their own greedy goals, and will make everyone aware of how lucky we really are to be alive in this day and age

I really understood for the first time in my life that a life without a purpose was in fact no life, it was a wasted life.
I saw that the desires that I thought were important, that I believed I needed, were in fact a hindrance and I only had to open my eyes and look around to see how lucky I was to live in such a beautiful world. All I needed to really do was live in harmony with the world and the people in it. Interaction with people, from a view point of respect, was paramount.

Gee, I guess having written this it was not so simple after all. It is really hard to put into words all the feelings and emotions I went through. I think the most important thing I understood was to have complete trust that if I lived according to the rules (Natural Law) I would always be ok. I would still suffer, hey, thats life. But I would always get through. And I have. I am no millionaire. I have to work for a living like everyone else. I have to worry about my kid (an 11 year old girl who is just discovering boys and cosmetics....oh the grey hairs). But you know, I really am happy.
End of story...for now.

coffee_cake

Asiaprod wrote:

I am definitly going to put you over my knee when I get home.:eek:

That won't make it less true XP

Ha, anyway back to your original question.
Why did I wait so long

Actually its very simple.
I went on a Buddhist retreat up in the mountains (just setting the right ambience here) and heard a great lecture on the role of the bodhisattava. How all the Buddhists of now, which we call the latter day of the law, were all thought to be people who had actually achieved enlightenment in a previous life, but had decided to return and be reborn as bodhisattava to help others. I woke early the next morning and went for a walk as dawn was breaking and I was overwhelmed by how peaceful, tranquil and beautiful a world we really live in. For some reason the vows of the bodhisattava really made sense to me, they were really a map to a happy and productive life:

The Vow of Participation..........I am alive and a part of this world
The Vow of Practice............... .Well for me faith in myself, practice of this Buddhism and study
The Vow of Joy..................... .Look around at the world in which I live
The Vow of Action................. .I am letting no one **** this place up for their own greedy goals, and will make everyone aware of how lucky we really are to be alive in this day and age

I really understood for the first time in my life that a life without a purpose was in fact no life, it was a wasted life.
I saw that the desires that I thought were important, that I believed I needed, were in fact a hindrance and I only had to open my eyes and look around to see how lucky I was to live in such a beautiful world. All I needed to really do was live in harmony with the world and the people in it. Interaction with people, from a view point of respect, was paramount.

Gee, I guess having written this it was not so simple after all. It is really hard to put into words all the feelings and emotions I went through. I think the most important thing I understood was to have complete trust that if I lived according to the rules (Natural Law) I would always be ok. I would still suffer, hey, thats life. But I would always get through. And I have. I am no millionaire. I have to work for a living like everyone else. I have to worry about my kid (an 11 year old girl who is just discovering boys and cosmetics....oh the grey hairs). But you know, I really am happy.
End of story...for now.

Did you not hear about bodhisattva vows before? Or you just didn't think of them?
The reason I originally looked into buddhism when I was 16 was for personal reasons only, much as I care for the world around me. But I've kind of gradually realised I like and want and need to help. I've no idea HOW, but I figure that's a start.
I don't know the details about the vow at ALL except the general intention of wanting to help and not running away once enlightened

Hehe, good luck with your kid =D

Asiaprod

Did you not hear about bodhisattva vows before? Or you just didn't think of them?

No, I had not really paid any attention to them as I was wrapped up with my own problems.

The reason I originally looked into buddhism when I was 16 was for personal reasons only, much as I care for the world around me. But I've kind of gradually realised I like and want and need to help.

Join the gang, same for me. I guess age brings a sense of awarness.

I've no idea HOW, but I figure that's a start.

I think the fact that you declare to the world you are a Buddhist is a great start.
The fact that you ask questions is an even better start

I don't know the details about the vow at ALL except the general intention of wanting to help and not running away once enlightened

Thats all you NEED to know, its called awakening. You are doing fine and the way will automatically open. I have read all the debating you have been doing on the other forums and I think you are well on the road to achieving your goals. Debate and question, and the conviction that you are doing the right things, are all that are required. The vows are actually called the Four Universal Vows. Here is a refresher for both of us:

the four universal vows describe those made by all practitioners, all bodhisattvas, upon embarking on Buddhist practice. They are the vows (1) to save innumerable living beings, (2) to eradicate countless earthly desires, (3) to master immeasurable Buddhist teachings and (4) to attain supreme enlightenment.
The first vow is a pledge to save people from suffering, without favoring or discriminating among them in any way. The second is to overcome the negative influences of desire, suffering and illusion, or "earthly desires." The third is to study and gain a thorough understanding of the teachings and principles of Buddhism. The fourth is to arrive at and demonstrate in one's actions the highest form of awakening - Buddhahood.
If we were to categorize the four, the first, the vow to save living beings, constitutes "practice for others"; the second and third aim at self-improvement and represent "practice for oneself"; and the forth is the ultimate purpose of Buddhist practice.

zag

It's great to see a full blown thread devoted to 'the middle way'.

It's really motivating for me to hear a person who has a job/kids/mortgage being so devoted to improving his life and the lives of others.

I think we all have become so materialistic(including myself). I really does impair our ability to be happy, and distracts us from what is important.

I have a bit of a problem with this, perhaps you could offer some advice. I have an ok income, not in debt(yet) have a lovely girlfriend and two beautiful dogs(goldies).

I find myself torn between two minds. One mind craves nice cars, food, sex the usual earthly pleasures. The other wants to be free, open and wise. At the moment we are buying a house, and it's really going to strech our money to the limit. We spend our weekends in showrooms for kitchens, tiles, curtains, whatever. Saying things like "I really can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen".

Later, I find myself thinking, "What difference does it make if it's cherry, or oak or plastic??". But I do care about it, that's the funny thing.

The problem is that, my girlfriend wants 'things' as much if not more than I do, so that is driving my mind/finances/life in a materialistic direction.

What should I do?

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

It's great to see a full blown thread devoted to 'the middle way'.

Hi zag ,nice to see you back. unfortunatly it is 12 at night and I have to be up at 5:30 for work. Please check back in tomorrow and I will have something posted that should help. I agree, I can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen either.:) Tilling and a persian carpet could. I am also an interior designer by the way;)

By the way, sex is cool, and with dogs you will benefit from the tilling

zag

Asiaprod wrote:

I am also an interior designer by the way;)

I better not tell the girlfriend:p

zag

Asiaprod wrote:

Hi zag ,nice to see you back. unfortunatly it is 12 at night and I have to be up at 5:30 for work. Please check back in tomorrow and I will have something posted that should help. I agree, I can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen either.:) Tilling and a persian carpet could. I am also an interior designer by the way;)

By the way, sex is cool, and with dogs you will benefit from the tilling

I will check back in tommorrow. Thank You.

Sleep well

zag

You may tell the lion by the claws

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

You may tell the lion by the claws

You may indeed, but you can also tell the wife by how sharp the lion's claws are not. Good night:)

coffee_cake

zag wrote:

I have a bit of a problem with this, perhaps you could offer some advice. I have an ok income, not in debt(yet) have a lovely girlfriend and two beautiful dogs(goldies).

I find myself torn between two minds. One mind craves nice cars, food, sex the usual earthly pleasures. The other wants to be free, open and wise. At the moment we are buying a house, and it's really going to strech our money to the limit. We spend our weekends in showrooms for kitchens, tiles, curtains, whatever. Saying things like "I really can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen".

Later, I find myself thinking, "What difference does it make if it's cherry, or oak or plastic??". But I do care about it, that's the funny thing.

The problem is that, my girlfriend wants 'things' as much if not more than I do, so that is driving my mind/finances/life in a materialistic direction.

What should I do?

First off, I think you should be careful not to fall into a trap of "what does anything really matter anymore" as a sort of depressing way of looking at things. When it comes to stuff like this, it really is a middle ground you might want to look for.
I think the problem people have with materialistic things is not having them, but thinking that they are the source of all your happiness and thinking that if you don't have them anymore you will be miserable.
It doesn't mean (unless you really want to ) that you should live in a plain hut with barely enough to eat. It also doesn't mean you should go buy everything you can just for the sake of having things.
I think the important thing is just realising that these things are very nice to have to look at or to be comforted by, but that they're not everything and that they're not the source of your happiness. That you can adjust your attitude to being content with what you have, rather than constantly buying and buying once you get sick of things, and feeding a material greed.

Obviously if you're just buying a house now, everything is caught up in it and it seems like that it's all you're doing these days, yes? But it'll stop being your focus when you settle in, I think, and then you can get back to normal. It has to last you a long time, so of course you have to pick well now, or you'll be coming home for a long time staring at the floors thinking "why did I ever pick cherry!!"
Some people can't do a middle ground, and try total avoidance - going off to live in the middle of nowhere for a while. For the norm, I think just keeping things in mind and maybe once in a while going on a retreat to recall you back to what's really important is how it should work.

Only my opinion of course, I don't own a house

p.s. don't pick cherry floors!! :eek:

coffee_cake

Asia- thank you

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Asia- thank you

Always welcome, eh did I do something good?

coffee_cake

Asiaprod wrote:

Always welcome, eh did I do something good?

You're all "I've been reading your posts and you're great" and that's nice
slightly reworded quote

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

I have a bit of a problem with this, perhaps you could offer some advice

Excelsior over on Christianity would kill for on opening line like that:)

<Slips on his typing gloves and cracks a few knuckles>

Damn, beaten to the punch by a Dame. Brilliant Bluewolf, could not have said it better myself. I think your comment "I think just keeping things in mind and maybe once in a while going on a retreat to recall you back to what's really important is how it should work."is very wise. It is so important to make sure to make time for ourselves. Meditation or reflection is key in Buddhism. The world moves at such a fast pace and so much is happening that it is nearly impossible to keep track. We need this time. The whole point in Buddhism, apart form all the lovely ideals of helping others, is that we are ultimately responsible for our own advancement. That must always be foremost in our mind.　This is not selfishness, it is a reason for our being. Our task is to get ourselves from A to B. Find time to reflect, you will only drive yourself crazy if you don't.

"I find myself torn between two minds. One mind craves nice cars, food, sex the usual earthly pleasures. The other wants to be free, open and wise."
There you go then, welcome to our world. This applies to just about every one, including me. This concept of denial in Buddhism is misplaced so often. The Buddha started his life as a very wealthy young man. He never left his palace. He had everything. If he went out riding, his father had the palace guards clean all the riff raff out of his path. He never saw his people as they really were, he had no concept of suffering, poverty, hunger or pain. It was only when he sneaked out that he came across these things and then decided to follow his new chosen life. He became aware of how material possessions and earthly desire had blinded HIM to the sufferings of others. How being privileged had insulated HIM from this suffering going on all around him. It was not that wealth or power or possessions were intrinsically bad and were to be avoided, it was that these thing if not handled correctly were bad and to be avoided. Can you see the difference? In Buddhism there is no good or bad, it is we who make a thing good or bad. Like they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Nowhere does it say in any writing that we cannot have possessions, that we cannot have money, that we cannot have power. that we can not even have Cherry Floors (sorry could not resist that one). What it DOES say is that if we are fortunate enough to have these things we really need to be aware of the dangers they could pose. Handle them correctly, and there is no problem and no conflict.

It also does not say we have to live in a cave. The wonderful thing for me about Buddhism is that it is never stagnant, always progressive. The original writing were written down 2,500 years ago and were geared to a more monastic life style. Even the Buddha left his wife and kids. The world was a very different place then. We now live in 2006, people in Ireland do not live in caves any more. You are one of the lucky ones. You obviously have a wonderful girl friend, you are building a life together. Your girl friend is first and foremost a home builder. The home is where she will control her little slice of life, caring for you and raising a family + dogs. I don't think she is being materialistic, I think that she is doing her job, and doing it well. She is making a comfortable home for you both. This is a good use of money.
Relax, enjoy the trip, select wisely and find that time for yourself to meditate, chant or reflect. Are you building a special place in the house where you can do these things, if not, let her get on with the house, and you design your special space. By the way, what is your girlfriends stance on you and your Buddhism?

I will leave you with a saying I really like by the Chinese Buddhist Monk T'ien-tai

"A person of wisdom is not one who practices Buddhism apart from worldly affairs but, rather, one who thoroughly understands the principles by which the world is governed."

zag

Good morning! I need to take some time to reflect on what you both said, let it sink in some.

maitri

Asiaprod wrote:

For the last 21 years I have been a practitioner of the Nichiren Shoshu School of Buddhism. It is a descended from Mahayana Buddhism that moved westward out of India to China where it was redefined under the Tiantai (Lotus Sutra) school of Buddhism. (...) It mainly differs from other schools of Buddhism in that it teaches that their is a form of enlightenment that can be attained in ones current life. This however should not be confused with that final enlightenment. That is, when we shake of all past accumulated Karma to become new born.

I wonder, could this maybe be more or less the same as the Tibetan «vajrayana»-school? Other names:
«Tantrayana»,«mantrayana», «The Diamond Way», «The Fast Way».

From Wikipedia:

"Vajrayana techniques are said to make full enlightenment or Buddhahood possible in a much shorter timeframe, perhaps in a single lifetime. Vajrayana Buddhists do not claim that Theravada or Mahayana practices are in any way invalid, only that they represent slower paths. It should also be noted that the goal of the Mahayana and Vajrayana is the attainment of Buddhahood, whereas the goal for Theravada practice is liberation from the cycle of rebirth (samsara) by achieving Nirvana."

From a Norwegian source: "The Varjayana builds on, and presupposes, the Mahayana attitude". This source also says that to follow this practice, one have to be "well established" on the Bodhisattva Path and have a strong inclination towards good deeds and have a high degree of spiritual maturity.

I don't know much about these things, I just wonder if it could be the same thing? Or something very similar.

Maitri

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

I don't know much about these things, I just wonder if it could be the same thing? Or something very similar.Maitri

Great question because it is forcing me to restudy the roots. Will get back to you after the weekend on this.

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

I wonder, could this maybe be more or less the same as the Tibetan «vajrayana»-school? Other names: «Tantrayana»,«mantrayana», «The Diamond Way», «The Fast Way»

The problem with Buddhism is that it split into many schools, each of which borrow from the other, one will find any of the 3 major schools reflected in the other two.
The issue with being a Buddhist from my perspective, as so too are all answers my opinions, is not which school may historically be correct, because they have all been influenced over the last 2,500 years by who ever acted as the chief reprresentative for that school, but by which school feels correct and whos teaching can be applied to today (2006). Buddhism cannot remain stationary, but must also progress over the years. As mankind gets smarter, Buddhism has to become more exact in what it teaches and must have teachings that relate more closely to the current age.

The Buddha expounded this Buddhism to enable all to achieve enlightenment. He stated quite clearly that we are all equal and we all hold the same potential for enlightenment. However, the monastic schools originally expounded that only the monks and priests could attain nirvana and the function of the laity was to look after the same monks and priests and in return they would be granted a higher place in their rebirth. This may have changed, I honestly do not know enough of the history of Tibetan Buddhism.

A prime example of a flavor of Buddhism steeped in the monastic school would be Tibetan and the man I very much admire, the Dalai Lama. Here is a wonderful man with a great message, but he does not come from a western upbringing. What he says is very much influenced by his upbringing and culture in Tibet. We cannot lead the type of life he lead in Tibet in our own countries. We have jobs and families, and a completely different social structure. His moral values are of great relevance, and he gives some great advice. But we must remember that he is a God in his own country. He was raised from childhood as a God. Not one of his own people ever dared to contradict him. His own people believe he can as a God cure them. He is 100% against Oral and Anal sex, Homosexuals and lesbians, just to mention a few issues. These issues are different for us in this age and in our own respective countries. The Buddha stated that his teachings are for all mankind, not just Indians or Tibetans.

The branch I follow is directly related from Mahayana. It was refined by the Tientai school in China who set about condensing down all the thousands of writing attributed to the Original Buddha. They realized it just was not possible for him to have written down all those texts in his life time. This more condensed form spread on down through Asia and crossed into Japan where it got further refined down into application for daily life by the Monk Nichiren (School of Nichiren Buddhism) which holds that we all have the potential to achieve enlightenment (or Buddhahood, the same state as the enlightened Buddha) in our current life time.

So for me it goes from <Original Teachings> into <Mahayana> into <Tientai school> into <Nichiren school>.

Maitri wrote:

From a Norwegian source: "The Varjayana builds on, and presupposes, the Mahayana attitude". This source also says that to follow this practice, one have to be "well established" on the Bodhisattva Path and have a strong inclination towards good deeds and have a high degree of spiritual maturity.

Oooh, could that be me. It would be great if it was. I will claim that I am on the Bodhisattva Path and I have a strong inclination towards good deeds, but I will have to let others decide on if I have a higher degree of spiritual maturity. After all, it was the Buddha that said we may think that we can see all that is in the world, yet we cant see our eyebrows that are right in front of us

I have listed a couple of things that we do have in common with the Tibetan School, my equivalent is in italics. Hope this helps

1. Repetition of special ritual phrases (mantras)........, Chanting and reciting the Lotus Sutra, praying for peace and the wellfare of all others
2. Use of various techniques, including breath control and the use of special hand positions.........meditation or reflection
3. Use of an extensive vocabulary of visual aids, .........we employ a Gohonzon which is said to represent the perfect life condition
4. Importance of a guru-disciple relationship.....we call it master disciple relationship, our objective is to turn it the other way around. A master is said to have been effective when the disciple turns around and teaches the master.
5. Achieving enlightenment in our current live.........we agree.:)

zag

Asia, is it enough for me to practice mindfulness 20 minutes per day? I always feel like I am on the starting block, and would like to progress further.
BlueWolf, Asia, I thought about what you both said to me about possessions. I had a discussion with my sister about it. I realise that imposing suffering on myself, because I want certain things for my home, is an extremist attitude and is not constructive. I also realise what you said, Asia, about my gf being a home-maker, and this is her area of influence on the family circle(and dogs!). My attitude has changed towards this now, thank you both.

I read a quote by the Dalai Lama,
"You cannot help people who are confused and suffering, if you are confused and suffering yourself".

I have seen this in life, yet I do not want this to become an excuse for my own selfishness!

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

Asia, is it enough for me to practice mindfulness 20 minutes per day? I always feel like I am on the starting block, and would like to progress further.

Anything you do is ok, the important thing to do is pick the amount of time and then do it without fail. Start small and build it. I struggle with an hour, my wife can cruise through 3 hours no problem.The kid on the othr hand is 60 seconds then out.

BlueWolf, Asia, I thought about what you both said to me about possessions. I had a discussion with my sister about it. I realise that imposing suffering on myself, because I want certain things for my home, is an extremist attitude and is not constructive. I also realise what you said, Asia, about my gf being a home-maker, and this is her area of influence on the family circle(and dogs!). My attitude has changed towards this now, thank you both.

Great, this what we try to do as Buddhists, to change our attitude. That is a great start, now lets work on the Cherry floors

I read a quote by the Dalai Lama,
"You cannot help people who are confused and suffering, if you are confused and suffering yourself".
I have seen this in life, yet I do not want this to become an excuse for my own selfishness!

Wise words indeed

zag

I meant to ask you, where are you from?

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

I meant to ask you, where are you from?

Dublin, a northsider. Now in Japan 20 years and loving every moment of it.

zag

Amazing. When you paying a visit to the family?

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

Amazing. When you paying a visit to the family?

My current goal is to get home this year and look up all the Buddhists, Christians, Atheists and Agnostics, and undecided I have met on boards i.e.

zag

Wow, I think you are an e-bodhisattiva!