Kunlee - Should he stay or should he go ?

marcsignal

The case of Nigerian student "Kunlee Elunhanla" has hit the papers again today with the Evening Herald 250306 reporting, that he has become a dad (and on that note I offer him my congratulations) However it has added a new dimension to his failed immigration application.

I'd like to begin a discussion on the case of Kunlee generally and welcome views from all sides of the camp.

I think it goes without saying, that this has proved to be a very immotive issue, and for that reason I would ask posters to refrain from both, "Hysterical Mother Theresaisms" in relation to immigration and/or "Derogatory Remarks" about blacks or immigrants in general. Lets thrash this one out in a civilised way.

So, Who's first ??

BuffyBot

Big long thread about him here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=238381

Determined2005

Another Nigerian asylum-seeker getting children born here. No doubt it will be used in the courts to try to block the deportation. Dammit. Every trick in the book eh?

Deport him. We had a referendum on the question of people using pregnancies to stay in Ireland.

Besides, the timing seems suspiciously coincidental. DNA tests plz?

blackbuster

I think he should stay. He has as much ight to stay as Irish people. I also think the media is on his back making him a scapegoat. I can't bla,e the media entirely because they didn't publish his criminal record but the seem to love knocking him. It's terrible.:mad:

Hobbes

Determined2005 wrote:

Deport him. We had a referendum on the question of people using pregnancies to stay in Ireland.

No it was not about that at all. It was about the nationality of the baby born in this country. Using a child as a right to stay here had already been overthrown a year or so (to the referendum) for asylum seekers.

Even getting married doesn't always guarantee you can stay here (depends on your immigration history).

blackbuster

They are talking about Kunle now on stormfront. Check it out here
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=277596 . They have a biased view!:mad:

zuma

blackbuster wrote:

He has as much ight to stay as Irish people.

Actually he doesnt and that is why were having this discussion!

Karl Hungus

blackbuster wrote:

Sorry KH. I'm new here so I didn't see the other thread but I think things like this should be talked about. I'm not going to stay silent on matters like this.

You seem very obsessed with Stormfront. Care to let us know what the story is?

BuffyBot

Stormfront shilling...this is a new one

Cork

blackbuster wrote:

the media is on his back making him a scapegoat. I can't bla,e the media entirely because they didn't publish his criminal record but the seem to love knocking him. It's terrible.:mad:

Did the media also highlight his original deportation?

You cannot turn the media on and off like a tap.

Diorraing

The rules must be observed. If we start making exceptions for some people we will have to make them for others which would render current procedures redundant. It may be a cold-hearted decision to send him back but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

ArthurDent

I was all for him being allowed to stay and get his leaving cert. Think that was a good decision, however, like anyone else in same position, if there is evidence (I'm saying if cos I don't know anything above newspaper reports) that he has not obeyed that laws of the country, I've no problem with him or anyone else being deported.

Lemlin

His original plea was that he wanted to do his Leaving certificate. He's finished that now so he has no reason to be here. He should go back.

Heinrich

Was he not deported for law breaking?

He was deported, came back and broke the law again! He was allowed back to do his leaving cert.

His girlfriend can always emigrate to Nigeria to keep her family together.

Delboy05

according to the herald, he's seeing this girl for less than a year. He's not wasted much time...funny in all the coverage of his case a few months ago and they interviewed him and his friends, there was never mention of a girlfriend. Just some of his school pals. She was never mentioned once.

Is ther any trick/loophole this guy has'nt tried to use to get out of being deported.
He did'nt even tell his solicitor about his previous convictions during his first deportation hearing...the courts had to inform his legal team!!!!!

His time is long up...enough money wasted....OUT..

rkeane

Kunle is some chancer indeed, he has tried virtually every trick to stay in Ireland. First and foremost, he is a criminal, 2nd - he is a failed asylum seeker, 3rd - he is no longer a leaving cert student. From what I hear in media circles there is no chance whatsoever of him getting leave to remain in Ireland. Mc Dowell is chomping at the bit to kick this guy out - and I back him 100%!

marcsignal

Yes I understand, according to the herald he as a 'number' of driving offences, and it was also reported that he was involved in an incident in Dublin airport wherby he was arrested (but subsequently released without charge) with another nigerian man who was trying to withdraw cash from a bank account using a false passport.
Like a previous poster has already said, I was in agreement he should be allowed to sit his leaving cert exams ? but I feel if he has fallen foul of the law then that's an entirely different matter. I'd even entertain the idea of '3 strikes and you're gone' for immigrants. I say 3 strikes because nobody's perfect, but he certainly dosen't seem to be doing himself any favours.
The pregnancy ? well his timing's pretty convienent it has to be said.
There was also some assertion by his lobby group that he was in grave danger in nigeria, but he seemed to make it back without coming to any harm the last time.

Begs the question ?? If "Kunlee" was a white, blond haired, blue eyed man from zimbabwe, worried about being sent back home there for the same reason, how many people in Ireland would be up in arms fighting for his right to stay ??



have been reading the other thread,( in 2nd post ) maybe the mods could merge em again ? or whatever ??

Determined2005

rkeane wrote:

Kunle is some chancer indeed, he has tried virtually every trick to stay in Ireland. First and foremost, he is a criminal, 2nd - he is a failed asylum seeker, 3rd - he is no longer a leaving cert student. From what I hear in media circles there is no chance whatsoever of him getting leave to remain in Ireland. Mc Dowell is chomping at the bit to kick this guy out - and I back him 100%!

Well it's sortof up to the judges unfortunately. They are obstructing 17% of deportations. No doubt PC judges would love to block the deportation on the grounds of "breaking up a family". We need a new referendum this time to stop them blocking deportations. Kunle is planning to apply for a judicial review of the deportation order.

If McDowell loses, he should appeal to the Supreme Court who are less liberal on immigration, judging by the January 2003 ruling ending automatic Citizenship for asylum seekers with babies.

rkeane

Any Judge who would stop this guy from getting the boot should be sacked. We have immigration rules in this country, Kunle decided to ignore all of them - he has to go. In any case, the weight of public approval is behind Mc Dowell this time, I highly doubth he will be here much longer.

mikemac

What exactly are his criminal offences? Does any know specifically?

I believe he was given a fair chance and if he's not going to respect the laws of this country he should be deported.

Maybe aslyum seekers should be given a probationary period when they first arrive. For a period of 1 year, if they work, pay taxes, become financially self-sufficent and importantly do not get a criminal record, they are granted citizenship.

Call it a trial period. I know they don't have the right to work at the moment.

If they're decent and honest citizens they're welcome in my opinion.
If not, I believe they should be sent back.

marcsignal

I understand he's up on at least 2 charges relating to driving offences (driving a car without the owners permission with no insurance - I think ?) and then the other incident cited above at the airport with the other nigerian man.

all that considered, i'd say pat kenny is mortified now, having presented 'kunlee' with the award of 'person of the year' on the late late show, around the time of the leaving cert debacle.
To be honest I cant help having a twinge of 'malicious glee' at the way these things are coming out in the wash ? woe betide any man who says anything negative about Immigrants/Asylum Seekers in Ireland.
It seems we have an uncontrollable desire to indulge ourselves in an orderly stampede to the moral high ground when the powers that be try to enforce our immigration laws. The winner of this stampede (more often than not, that woman from 'residents against racism') usually relishes in the opportunity to sanctimoniously lecture the rest of us about how 'ignorant' and 'racist' we all are.

I have to say also, that i blame what I call the 'mother teresa set' completely for this merry go round. I can recall being almost eaten alive in a pub one night in 1995 for suggesting Ireland set up an 'immigration policy' and to say I did well to get out of the place alive is not an understatement. Too much political correctness and not enough pragmatism from day one, in my view.

ArthurDent

marcsignal wrote:

The case of Nigerian student "Kunlee Elunhanla" has hit the papers again today with the Evening Herald 250306 reporting, that he has become a dad (and on that note I offer him my congratulations) However it has added a new dimension to his failed immigration application.

I'd like to begin a discussion on the case of Kunlee generally and welcome views from all sides of the camp.

I think it goes without saying, that this has proved to be a very immotive issue, and for that reason I would ask posters to refrain from both, "Hysterical Mother Theresaisms" in relation to immigration and/or "Derogatory Remarks" about blacks or immigrants in general. Lets thrash this one out in a civilised way.

So, Who's first ??

So what happened to the civilised debate on this topic?
"malicious glee" - yeah you really seem to want to discuss this topic in an open manner.
And when did this discussion turn to a broad discussion on immigration (never mind getting into definition of refugee, asylum seeker, immigrant) - you asked for opinions on this case.

marcsignal

ArthurDent wrote:

So what happened to the civilised debate on this topic?
"malicious glee" - yeah you really seem to want to discuss this topic in an open manner.
And when did this discussion turn to a broad discussion on immigration (never mind getting into definition of refugee, asylum seeker, immigrant) - you asked for opinions on this case.

Im sorry Arthur but your reaction is scarcastic and OTT, the fact is there is no direct translation for the word i would have liked to use 'schadenfreude' (german) in english the closest equivalent term is 'malicious glee' and the term wasn't used with reference to Kunlee himself, but with reference the 'set' in ireland who simply refuse to believe asylum seekers, refugees, and/or immigrants can do any wrong (like kunlee's lobby group), and when they do something wrong, they find some other excuse to justify their making an ass of our immigration laws.

I posted the comment you are citing me for with a view to discourage anyone from posting offensive remarks about ni**ers and smart arses using 'Kunlee's name in other spoonerisms or things that may rhyme with 'kunlee' because i think such remarks are unhelpful.

when someone is making an ass of our laws in the way 'kunlee' appears to be, i cant help feeling 'schadenfreude' when things catch up with them ? i dont think thats racist ? sorry, i personally think the case has dragged on and on and on and on and when these things happen it creates resentment among many people that afflicts genuine cases.

I might add that (despite what you're probably thinking) I do not subscribe to websites such as 'stormfront' because i consider it too extreme, in fact if you want to make scarcastic interpretations of comments you consider racist, i suggest you have a go at someone there ?

dathi1

this guy is costing taxpayers a fortune in legal fees and subsidies. in my opinion) 99% want him out along with all the other fraudsters.

jdwals

Kick him out. He has had his chances - he has broken our laws now send him back.
If an Irish person was caught driving without insurance I'd say most people on this site would be in favour of sending them to Nigeria. So what is the problem with sending this guy back?

Macy

marcsignal wrote:

It seems we have an uncontrollable desire to indulge ourselves in an orderly stampede to the moral high ground when the powers that be try to enforce our immigration laws. The winner of this stampede (more often than not, that woman from 'residents against racism') usually relishes in the opportunity to sanctimoniously lecture the rest of us about how 'ignorant' and 'racist' we all are.

Which would be fine if there was some consistency. If our Government wasn't putting pressure on the USA Government to repeal their immigration laws for Irish Illegals there at the same time as deporting people from here then I might believe that our immigration policy and the referendum wasn't reactionary and racist.

Karl Hungus

jdwals wrote:

Kick him out. He has had his chances - he has broken our laws now send him back.
If an Irish person was caught driving without insurance I'd say most people on this site would be in favour of sending them to Nigeria. So what is the problem with sending this guy back?

Eh, no... If an Irish person was caught driving without insurance, I'd say people would be in favour of them being punished in accordance with the law. Nothing more, nothing less.

Delboy05

Macy wrote:

Which would be fine if there was some consistency. If our Government wasn't putting pressure on the USA Government to repeal their immigration laws for Irish Illegals there at the same time as deporting people from here then I might believe that our immigration policy and the referendum wasn't reactionary and racist.

Govt's/people have 2-faced standards on many things. I don;'t think our immigration policy is racist just because we want to deport failed asylum seekers and at the same time help out Irish people in the US. Like I've said before, the vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland get to stay here despite their cases not passing the standards.The system is very biased in their favour.
At current rates of asylum applications, we are still deporting less than 10% despite something like 90% of people getting their application refused at the first stage.

Also, the Irish Govt is'nt trying to get the US to repeal anything. It's my understanding the law or even the exact version to be put in place in the USA has'nt been decided or passed yet.

mountainyman

marcsignal wrote:

I understand he's up on at least 2 charges relating to driving offences (driving a car without the owners permission with no insurance - I think ?) and then the other incident cited above at the airport with the other nigerian man.

Most Irish people don't regard driving offenses as criminal. Perhaps you will understand that when you get to know us.

marcsignal wrote:

To be honest I cant help having a twinge of 'malicious glee' at the way these things are coming out in the wash ? woe betide any man who says anything negative about Immigrants/Asylum Seekers in Ireland.

Apart from Michael McDowell, the appeals tribunal and the GNIB of course. (and the editor of the Sunday Independent and the Evening Press and Pat Rabbitte etc.) You will realise that when you have been here a little while.

marcsignal wrote:

The winner of this stampede (more often than not, that woman from 'residents against racism') usually relishes in the opportunity to sanctimoniously lecture the rest of us about how 'ignorant' and 'racist' we all are.

Yes she has alot of power , they aren't a tiny marginal group at all (I just heard of them NOW from you and I take an interest in these matters. )

marcsignal wrote:

I have to say also, that i blame what I call the 'mother teresa set' completely for this merry go round. I can recall being almost eaten alive in a pub one night in 1995 for suggesting Ireland set up an 'immigration policy' and to say I did well to get out of the place alive is not an understatement. Too much political correctness and not enough pragmatism from day one, in my view.

You have keen antennae marcsignal in 1995 unemployment was 15% was it not? Truly you were a visionary, what part of England was the pub in by the way?

marcsignal wrote:

Too much political correctness and not enough pragmatism from day one, in my view.

What is political correctness?

MM

mountainyman

Incidentally I feel he should not be allowed to stay; hard cases make bad law, if he does not meet the guidelines then he does not meet the guidelines. Also the attempt to use an Irish born child to gain right to remain infuriates me.

I do feel that the process should be vastly speeded up and if people are here for a certain length of time theu should be allowed stay.

I feel that the law is arbitrary and somewhat cruel but nonetheless we must have that process just as innocent men must sometimebe s go to jail else the system could not function so real refugees must be sent back to their deaths lest the Minister be thought a sof ttouch.

MM

ronbyrne2005

his baby is irish ,will he not be allowed to apply for visa as father of irish citizen?

Heinrich

Here are a few questions which the PC brigade could answer:

1. Why is this chap not with his parents?
2. How did he come to Ireland?
3. Who brought him here?
4. Where is he living?
5. Who pays for his accommodation?
6. Who taught him how to drive?
7. Was he convicted of motoring offences and this being the case, who paid the fines ?
8. Would the Nigerian authorities accept girlfriend and child as a Nigerian citizens?

Just curious...

mountainyman

Heinrich wrote:

Here are a few questions which the PC brigade could answer:

****ing Apple Mac snobs (the only computer virus that infects the user and not the computer.) Woo Hoo you have an Apple big deal.

Heinrich wrote:

1. Why is this chap not with his parents?

I don't know why I am supposed to know that just because I don't use an Apple, I suppose you know Mr Creative.

Heinrich wrote:

1. How did he come to Ireland?

I don't know.

Heinrich wrote:

1. Who brought him here?

I don't know.

Heinrich wrote:

1. Where is he living?

A hostel in Clondalkin I think


[QUOTE=Heinrich

1. Who pays for his accommodation?

[/QUOTE]
The accomodation is free I think.

Heinrich wrote:

1. Who taught him how to drive?

Look I use a Vaio it is a good computer but using a PC does not make me an expert in this guys life. I suppose all you quark express goateed Apple Mac users know who taught him to drive.

Heinrich wrote:

Here are a few questions which the PC brigade could answer:

1. Was he convicted of motoring offences and this being the case, who paid the fines ?

Yes and I don't know.

Heinrich wrote:

Here are a few questions which the PC brigade could answer:

1. Would the Nigerian authorities accept girlfriend and child as a Nigerian citizens?

How am I supposed to know (I only know one African in the 'PC brigade' and he is a sysadmin from Zambia. The only Nigerian IT person I know is a programmer.)

OK Mr Macintosh fill us in.

MM

Heinrich

mountainyman wrote:

What is political correctness?

MM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

mountainyman

Heinrich wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

Please tell me in your own words.
I do not read Wikipedia on grounds of my inability to understand much of it.

MM

Sherlock

mountainyman wrote:

Most Irish people don't regard driving offenses as criminal. Perhaps you will understand that when you get to know us.


Speak for yourself, anyone I know regards driving without insurance as a very serious criminal offence. Do you drive without insurance ?

marcsignal

mountainyman wrote:

Most Irish people don't regard driving offenses as criminal. Perhaps you will understand that when you get to know us.

Nowhere in this thread or anywhere else have I ever referred to "Kunlee Elunhanla" as a criminal.

mountainyman wrote:

Apart from Michael McDowell, the appeals tribunal and the GNIB of course. (and the editor of the Sunday Independent and the Evening Press and Pat Rabbitte etc.)

Michael Mc Dowell has a very unpopular job to do, try to keep that in mind. If he said ‘the rosary’ some people opposing him would find racism in it.

mountainyman wrote:

You will realise that when you have been here a little while.

I’m a Dub 38yrs, born here, (whatever that’s worth ?)

mountainyman wrote:

Yes she has a lot of power, they aren't a tiny marginal group at all (I just heard of them NOW from you and I take an interest in these matters. )

Nowhere did I ever once make the assertion that ‘residents against racism’ were a ‘tiny marginal group’. What I will say about them though, is sometimes their approach can harm the very people they are ‘SUPPOSED’ to represent. Had they, as a group looked a little deeper into the "Kunlee Elunhanla" case, before taking it on board with blind enthusiasm, some of the driving offences, and other matters, may have come to light sooner, and someone in that group, might then have had to ask ?

“If we blindly support this guy, and it all goes pear shaped, what is that going to do to our credibility as a representative lobby, when we have to deal with a ‘genuine’ case which might follow this one ??”

The fact is it would never even occur to them to do so, and the fall-out for future cases would be that some people would simply say “here we go again, another Kunlee Elunhanla”
Don’t you think that might jeopardise the chance of a fair hearing in future cases?
When things like this drag on, people rarely remember the positive, ALWAYS the negative. In that respect I think RAR’s policy of ‘shout anyone down who isn’t fully behind us, and if that doesn’t work, just point the finger at them and call them a big fat racist” doesn’t wash with me, sorry. I have heard the woman concerned from ‘RAR’ speak about the “kunlee” case specifically, 3 times, and on every occasion she had nothing memorable to say and was saying it too loudly, just the same spiel ?
Relevant Arguments = fine, Sanctimonious Bleeding-Heart Propaganda = nicht nicht.

mountainyman wrote:

You have keen antennae marcsignal in 1995 unemployment was 15% was it not? Truly you were a visionary, what part of England was the pub in by the way?

Dame St.

mountainyman wrote:

What is political correctness?

The opposite to Pragmatism, or so it would seem ??

marcsignal

Macy wrote:

Which would be fine if there was some consistency. If our Government wasn't putting pressure on the USA Government to repeal their immigration laws for Irish Illegals there at the same time as deporting people from here then I might believe that our immigration policy and the referendum wasn't reactionary and racist.

I think the Irish-illegals in America took their chances and can’t complain either if they’re sent back. I’m sure most of them knew full well what they were getting into when they set out, life’s sometimes a big pile of crap, but that’s life. But I agree, the govt seem to contradict themselves all right on this one.

The_Minister

mountainyman wrote:

Most Irish people don't regard driving offenses as criminal. Perhaps you will understand that when you get to know us.

I would regard serious driving offenses (drunk driving etc) as criminal

mountainyman wrote:

Apart from Michael McDowell, the appeals tribunal and the GNIB of course. (and the editor of the Sunday Independent and the Evening Press and Pat Rabbitte etc.) You will realise that when you have been here a little while.

Michael McDowell gets ripped into for it, and Pat Rabitte just lightly touched the arguement. He only slagged off the poles, it's not "popular" to support them. The appeals tribunal is continually critised by Vincent Brown and co.

mountainyman wrote:

Yes she has alot of power , they aren't a tiny marginal group at all (I just heard of them NOW from you and I take an interest in these matters. )

They are an influencial group who specialise in soundbites. They have come to prominance in the last few years, and if you really took an interest in these matters you would have heard of them.

mountainyman wrote:

You have keen antennae marcsignal in 1995 unemployment was 15% was it not? Truly you were a visionary, what part of England was the pub in by the way?

He said Ireland

mountainyman wrote:

What is political correctness?

mountainyman

My apologies for thinking you were English.

marcsignal wrote:

Nowhere did I ever once make the assertion that ‘residents against racism’ were a ‘tiny marginal group’.

Apologies I was being sarcastic but obviously did not communicate it properly.
I believe that they are a tiny marginal group without any power.

marcsignal wrote:

Had they, as a group looked a little deeper into the "Kunlee Elunhanla" case, before taking it on board with blind enthusiasm, some of the driving offences, and other matters, may have come to light sooner, and someone in that group, might then have had to ask ?

The driving offences come on that is irrelevant. He was allowed to stay as an unaccompanied minor and now he must go home.

marcsignal wrote:

“If we blindly support this guy, and it all goes pear shaped, what is that going to do to our credibility as a representative lobby, when we have to deal with a ‘genuine’ case which might follow this one ??”

Well isn't that the real question, dont ALL 'bogus asylum seekers' (stupid tautology) make things more difficult for 'genuine refugees'.


MM

marcsignal

mountainyman wrote:

they aren't a tiny marginal group at all (I just heard of them NOW from you and I take an interest in these matters. )
MM

ha ha ! no apology necessary at all on the english thing .If you’re going to join ‘RAR’ I genuinely wish you luck with it, honestly, but can I suggest you have a word with their PR person and inform them ‘the general public’ don’t like to be patronised as a rule, it usually provokes a negative response.

marcsignal

mountainyman wrote:

Cool name marc signal from radio transmission?
MM

yeah, ive done a bit of pirate radio alright with xfm here not as 'lord haw haw' though

mountainyman

marcsignal wrote:

ha ha ! no apology necessary at all on the english thing .If you’re going to join ‘RAR’ I genuinely wish you luck with it, honestly, but can I suggest you have a word with their PR person and inform them ‘the general public’ don’t like to be patronised as a rule, it usually provokes a negative response.

Well I am a resident and I am against racism. But they seem like a bunch of lunatics. I don't think what they do is productive (though if a friend of mine was about to be deported I am sure I would think differently).

MM

marcsignal

mountainyman wrote:

(though if a friend of mine was about to be deported I am sure I would think differently).
MM

completely understandable, especially if they were a genuine case. I also understand with reference to the main spokeswoman for RAR, that extremists have been known to post 'human excrement' in her letterbox. I think that is equally unhelpful and would never ever support or condone such action under any circumstances, even though I think she is misguided.

blackbuster

Karl Hungus wrote:

You seem very obsessed with Stormfront. Care to let us know what the story is?

I said it already. I'm not a broken record!

I disagree with SF and I'm trying to understand their thinking. Thats why I was asking the questions about them hating non-whites Vs loving whites.

lostexpectation

well you lame-arsed transparent as hell stormfronting shill seeing as there isn't really anything such as a white person then white pride is also a very contrived and misused notion, of course there are plenty of other ***** pride groupings there's difficulty with them too.

marcsignal

blackbuster wrote:

I said it already. I'm not a broken record!

I disagree with SF and I'm trying to understand their thinking. Thats why I was asking the questions about them hating non-whites Vs loving whites.

Are you on the right thread ??

marcsignal

lostexpectation wrote:

well you lame-arsed transparent as hell stormfronting shill seeing as there isn't really anything such as a white person then white pride is also a very contrived and misused notion, of course there are plenty of other ***** pride groupings there's difficulty with them too.

are you on the right thread ??

blackbuster

lostexpectation wrote:

well you lame-arsed transparent as hell stormfronting shill seeing as there isn't really anything such as a white person then white pride is also a very contrived and misused notion, of course there are plenty of other ***** pride groupings there's difficulty with them too.

Mods, is this behaviour acceptable on boards? Not only am I being insulted but this person has got his/her facts wrong it seems.:mad:

I don't know what shill means. Is that some sort of geek slang?

blackbuster

marcsignal wrote:

Are you on the right thread ??

Yes marcsignal and to be honest I shouldn't reply to this unwarranted abuse. I think it's because I'm new here. I thought of not logging onto boards anymore but I'm ready to face these people and hopefully in time I'll be accepted.

catholicireland

Im delighted that this criminal is back in his own mess of a country!