Rock Road traffic chaos

monument

Bee wrote:

Ttime and time again the traffic engineers are using the infrastructure of this city as a weapon against its citizens.

That reminds me of this... Labour to tackle issue of deprivation in Dublin 4

SickCert

Two hours this evening - City to Oldcourt, its depressing and im driving it!
On another note they have started similar works in Cabinteely village so we might as well chuck the timetable in the fire.:eek:

John R

Bee wrote:

People need to use cars on this road

No. People need to stop using cars on this road.

paulm17781

John R wrote:

No. People need to stop using cars on this road.

I have to agree. I got the bus today for the first time in two weeks and it flew in. No schools. If more people used the DART and walked for 15 - 20 minutes it would be much nicer. Hopefully the QBC will reduce car usage.

D'Peoples Voice

paulm17781 wrote:

He does make the excellent point of it being next to the DART. I generally use the 7/45 (saves me a five minute walk) while I like those buses they could easily be re-routed to serve people who aren't served by Ireland's highest capacity mass transit system.

As a supporter of the PD's, I'm ashamed of this lad.
He says we don't need a bus lane right next to the DART, so what's his rationale for next two lanes for cars right next to the DART.
Clearly the DART is more restricted for people to access, buses can be more flexible by going into housing estates.But no-one will get a bus all the way into town if it takes as long as a car. You need to be saving on time if you are willing to give up the luxury of driving in your own car. Feeder buses to DART stations are not good enough, they are irregular at best.
Hence this bus lane is long over-due, and fiar play to local government for taking this decision, if it were left to central government, it would never happen!
The only sad thing is, because of the unions in CIE, Minister cullen will not allow private bus companies on this route, so it may end up being a white elephant!

NUTLEY BOY

Any idea who is doing the works on the Rock Road ?

I cannot see a contractors sign so do we take in a deep breath and assume that DLRCC are actually doing it themselves ? It might explain a lot.

Beware folks that there is a 30 KPH speed limit in force between Trimleston and Mount Merrion Avenue whilst this masterpeice is in progress.

If you are on a bicycle then you have to get off and walk between Booterstown Avenue and Trimleston. Honestly, it says so on the big orange sign that keeps moving around the Rock Road.

I have not seen one blow of work done on this project over the weekends. Would you not think that a bit of weekend work would be justified for this road given the traffic mayhem being caused on roads feeding into the N11 alternative ?

Also, why not some nightime work when the project moves on towards the DART station where there are relatively few residents to be disturbed ?

The only good thought is that this will probably run so late that it might keep general election canvassers away.

Victor

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

I have not seen one blow of work done on this project over the weekends. ...

Also, why not some nightime work when the project moves on towards the DART station where there are relatively few residents to be disturbed ?

Money.

NUTLEY BOY

Has anyone seen any workmen on the Rock Road or have they migrated for the autumn ?

SickCert

They were there causing chaos on friday.

matressmonkey

All,

Anyone recall what was said on the road signs that 1st went up when the roadworks on the rock road started before the summer?

I recall they said something like: "work scheduled to be completed by September '06."

or was that September '07 ???

Anyway, now, that we're into October, the roadworks are still going on, but lo and behold, the signs are gone, so I and every other friggin motorist can't see if they are ahead [lol !!] or behind in their schedule.

Anyone know what the hell is taking them so long and for why?

MM

Pines

Here's the DLR CoCo outline of the timescale. Looks like a target finish date of Feb/March 07.

Zascar

THis morning I left a litle later than usual - 8am instead of 7.30-7.40. It took me almost an hour to get from Maxwell Motors in Blackrock, to the Merrion Gates - this is a 5 minute journey when there is no traffic.

Its an absolute disgrace how badly this road works is being managed. The traffic is slowed when 2 lanes are forces into one, but what do they do but let the traffoc go back into two lanes a few hundred yards later, onlt to converge AGAIN slowing everyhting more. Why not just take one lane out completely alll the way, that way the traffic has more chance of flowing at least.

John R

Zascar wrote:

THis morning I left a litle later than usual - 8am instead of 7.30-7.40. It took me almost an hour to get from Maxwell Motors in Blackrock, to the Merrion Gates - this is a 5 minute journey when there is no traffic.

Its an absolute disgrace how badly this road works is being managed. The traffic is slowed when 2 lanes are forces into one, but what do they do but let the traffoc go back into two lanes a few hundred yards later, onlt to converge AGAIN slowing everyhting more. Why not just take one lane out completely alll the way, that way the traffic has more chance of flowing at least.

Because the people who organise these things are morons, simple as.

MUCH worse is the way they are marking out the road for the future.

There will be one car and one bus lane inbound from Mount Merrion ave except for a small section from Carroll&Kinsella to Booterstown ave where there will be two driving lanes and a bus lane which will then have to jostle into one driving lane and bus lane the other side of Booterstown ave.

That is just stupid, it will lead to exactly the scenario that is happening now with too many cars entering the section from the Mount Merrion ave junction and then huge delays getting past Booterstown Ave junction, and no doubt given the narrowness of the bus lane busses will get caught up there too.

There are a lot of supposedly well educated people in the planning departments of our authorities who are retarded idiots.

AlekSmart

"There are a lot of supposedly well educated people in the planning departments of our authorities who are retarded idiots.[/QUOTE]"

Elequently put John R.
This observation is,however all to true as can be seen all over Dublin City particularly.
The current flurry of Civil Engineering being carried out on behalf of DCC`s Water Works Dept at Dorset St/Blessington St must take the award for the most mismanaged and potentially dangerous set of works in Dublin.

DCC issue a list to interested parties each week detailing the threatened work for the week ahead which usually has the responsible engineers name and contact number appended.

Perhaps some kind poster could find this and enlighten us as to who is responsible for the sorry pathetic mess which typifies all that is bad in Irish Civil Engineering.

And yet it need not be so.
Presently the contractors simply set up shop to excavate holes along the centre line of Dorset St without making the slightest effort to restrict or otherwise discourage car parking parallell to the site.
The simple expedient of removing ALL car parking on the approaches and departures from the work would make a huge difference,IF somebody in charge could rustle upenough interest in what they were doing.

It is blatently obvious that whilst DCC`s Civil Engineering Professionals may be highly qualfied in the theory and practive of excavating large openings,the same "Professionals" have shag-all knowledge of what constututes safe or even half-best practice in terms of Traffic Management and Control in the area of road works.
Time and again we see simply laziness and haphazard attitudes to the prepriatory work which SHOULD be put in place BEFORE a JCB or RockBreaker is unleashed upon an unsuspecting public....

Does anybody in DCC give a damn..? I very much doubt it.... :eek:

RobAMerc

Ok, these guys have seen the utter chaos on the Rock road for the last X months as it has been reduced to one lane, and they still go an paint a BUS lane on it which leads me to believe they are gonna use it !

Is this not nuts !
Do these idiots go out of their way to annoy already demented commuters ?

Enduro

That sounds like excellent news for all the thousands of Bus and cycle commuters on that route. You could even try taking the bus yourself.

DerekP11

The buslane/QBC concept is good in principle. However, introducing them without any additional services/routes etc is purely cosmetic and offers nothing to those who genuinely have no choice but to drive.

Unfortunetly the commuting set up in Dublin is based on people driving because they have no choice. Thats a majority scenario and the main reason why congestion is so bad. Forcing buslanes down the throats of car dependent routes is merely a beauracratic solution to a misunderstood problem.

RobAMerc

Enduro wrote:

You could even try taking the bus yourself.

Thats not very helpfull
What makes you think I would not if I could, I spend long enough in work each day without the 2 hr commute each way public transport would take.

Drax

RobAMerc wrote:

Thats very helpfull, idiot.
What makes you think I would not if I could, I spend long enough in work each day without the 2 hr commute each way public transport would take.

Careful there Ted. You never what mods are lurking around here. He does have a point - how long does it take you to drive into town? I've also noticed that outbound near booterstown the bus lane is partially a cycle lane - too narrow for a bus to overtake a bicycle - thats the story with that... Obviously the bus will have to indicate it is overtaking the bicycle and move into the other lane. Silly!

Hobart

RobAMerc wrote:

Thats very helpfull, idiot.
What makes you think I would not if I could, I spend long enough in work each day without the 2 hr commute each way public transport would take.

Anymore abuse like that RobAMerc, and you can have a wee break from this board. Less of the personal abuse.

RobAMerc

Apologies,
I was after spending 90 mins in the car getting to work when I read the post and lost the rag a bit.

Circumstaneces have me working on the far north side of Dublin so I am not just heading into town - the m50 is not an option as its a car park

I would love to use public transport if it were reliable cheap effecient or clean - none of which are available in Ireland and particulary on my route. When living in a number of other cities I always did.

I hate the "Use Public transport and tax them out of the car" attitude here when there is no alternative.

I have edited the remark.

John R

RobAMerc wrote:

I hate the "Use Public transport and tax them out of the car" attitude here when there is no alternative.

And how will there ever be an alternative unless roadspace is taken from cars to allow public transport operate efficiently?

I would love to use public transport if it were reliable cheap effecient or clean - none of which are available in Ireland

That is the mantra of pretty much every car commuter in the world when questioned, the truth is it is more often than not a quick excuse for people that have no intention of giving up the convenience of their car no matter how good the alternative is.

RobAMerc

As I stated before - when living in a number of other cities I always took public transport, and if I was 50/50 JohnR, your comments would actually make me turn my back on public transport.
I doubt even the most avid public transport user would consider the Dun Laoghaire - Swords commute as having a good or workable service.

Anyway - we are going ot here, my point is the rock road bus lanes will add to the chaos not fix anything.

They will look nice and empty (and tempting) though, while the poor commuters are stuck in the lane beside them.

John R

RobAMerc wrote:

As I stated before - when living in a number of other cities I always took public transport, and if I was 50/50 JohnR, your comments would actually make me turn my back on public transport.

Should I be flattered that a 30 second post has had such an effect on you? I notice you didn't answer the question that I posed though.

RobAMerc wrote:

I doubt even the most avid public transport user would consider the Dun Laoghaire - Swords commute as having a good or workable service.

DART DunLaoghaire-Malahide (50mns), Bus 230 Malahide-Swords (10mns).

DART DunLaoghaire-Tara Street (20mns), Bus 33/41/41c Abbey St-Swords (45-60mns)

RobAMerc wrote:

Anyway - we are going ot here, my point is the rock road bus lanes will add to the chaos not fix anything.

...For Car commuters. For bus users they will considerably improve things.

RobAMerc wrote:

They will look nice and empty (and tempting) though, while the poor commuters are stuck in the lane beside them.

Empty apart from the 15 or so buses per hour (peak) that will be using them.

Despite the proximity of the DART line the 7 is one of the city's busiest bus routes and the 45 is very heavily used also.

RobAMerc

In answer to your question - the bus is not the only option for public transport, there should be under/over ground train, tram, proper bike lanes (not white lines down the side of a bus lane). The roads should be left for the traffic they were intended for.

As for your timetable - add in 10min walk to dart station - or 10 min wait for bus to dart. 10 min wait for train - 10 min wait for bus at other end plus walk from bus to job not withstanding the optimistic times you quote for journey times plus unreliable services, leaves a disasterous time that would make the 35 - 90 mins you could spend in the car seem worth while.
Also - This is peak times, I often work late and would most probably end up getting a cab home if I relied on Pub transport at that hr.

As for the spectacular service into town you talk of, I left home at 6.30pm recently to get bus into town - 45mins and one very wet fellow later, I got on the bus - a world class service no doubt.

I do try, so please loose the lectures - you will turn me off public transport for good.

OT Means off topic.

MrPudding

RobAMerc wrote:

Ok, these guys have seen the utter chaos on the Rock road for the last X months as it has been reduced to one lane, and they still go an paint a BUS lane on it which leads me to believe they are gonna use it !

Is this not nuts !
Do these idiots go out of their way to annoy already demented commuters ?

This is old news TBH. They announced it before the work even began.

There has been some mention of a tidal system but I will believe that when I see it.

MrP

John R

RobAMerc wrote:

In answer to your question - the bus is not the only option for public transport, there should be under/over ground train, tram, proper bike lanes (not white lines down the side of a bus lane).

Should, would, could. The reality is what it is and that bus corridor is very busy even with some lousy journey times. The people using these services have a right to the space as much as car commuters, even more so if you compare the numbers of PEOPLE the lane can accomodate in buses versus cars.


If/when enough of those other options are built THEN you could possibly justify giving more roadspace to private cars. Until then it is necessary to fit an ever increasing amount of people on a finite amount of roadspace and the only way that can happen is by prioritising more space efficient means. 1 bus (max 90, average approx 60 people) takes up the same roadspace as 2-3 cars (max 15, average 4 people)

RobAMerc wrote:

The roads should be left for the traffic they were intended for.

Horse and cart, penny farthing bicycles, pedestrians or possibly street trams?

You certainly can't be referring to tens of thousands of modern cars because the streets of Dublin certainly were never designed to accomodate them.

RobAMerc wrote:

As for your timetable - add in 10min walk to dart station - or 10 min wait for bus to dart. 10 min wait for train - 10 min wait for bus at other end plus walk from bus to job not withstanding the optimistic times you quote for journey times plus unreliable services, leaves a disasterous time that would make the 35 - 90 mins you could spend in the car seem worth while.

I was giving an indication of the options with realistic segment timings, not a door-to-door timetable. Of course there is waiting time and the inconvenience of PT not being as close to your door as your car.

RobAMerc wrote:

Also - This is peak times, I often work late and would most probably end up getting a cab home if I relied on Pub transport at that hr.

At those sort of times the bus lane is a non-issue anyway, they are not in operation and there is more than enough capacity in one lane to allow the traffic to flow.

RobAMerc wrote:

As for the spectacular service into town you talk of, I left home at 6.30pm recently to get bus into town - 45mins and one very wet fellow later, I got on the bus - a world class service no doubt.

I never said there was a spectacular service on that route, far from it. but the numbers I gave are accurate. With the 5, 7, 7A, 8, 45 and the increased and extended 4 to Blackrok due in the new year there will be 15 buses per hour on that section of road.

The fact is the current (slow and unreliable) service is very busy so a faster more frequent and more reliable (thanks to less traffic jams) service WILL increase useage.

RobAMerc wrote:

I do try, so please loose the lectures - you will turn me off public transport for good.

You say that like it is some sort of threat. Honestly I don't care if I turn you off public transport for good, it is a (relatively) free country and if my words have that effect on you then so be it. I am not a spokesperson for anything and it is certainly not my job to persuade you into doing anything.

I am much more interested in seeing the PT infrastructure improve so that more people, even those without a car, can get around the city properly and this is a small step in the right direction.

RobAMerc wrote:

OT Means off topic.

Just because you don't like what I have said doesn't make it OT (BTW I had no idea what OT meant before now, thank you so very much for telling me)
it is all very much on the topic of your OP suggesting that putting a bus lane on the Rock Road is nuts.

Truth be told I don't even agree that the bus lane will have a disastrous effect on the road. As someone who has lived in the Dun Laoghaire area for most of the last 30 years I cannot remember a time when that road was anything but a traffic blackspot.

15 years ago I used to go by bus to college and it would regularly take 1h30-1h45 to get in. The road has a number of bottlenecks, having two lanes always allowed a large number of cars to enter sections where there was not enough space to exit so the traffic backed up. With only one traffic lane the queues will back up farther with less cars in between junctions but the sections will clear quicker. There may be more delays and there will be delays in different roads but I expect that there will not be a great deal of difference in journey times to before the roadworks began.

Wishbone Ash

RobAMerc wrote:

The roads should be left for the traffic they were intended for.

John R wrote:

Horse and cart, penny farthing bicycles, pedestrians or possibly street trams?

LOL

D'Peoples Voice

Has this bus lane opened yet?

zokrez

Well it hadn't up to 2 days ago.