TGV Ireland?

Maskhadov

I dont know why some people here are so negative about HSR. The simple fact is that after we complete T21 we will have an average infastructure. Of course we are going to continue to invest in infastructure and better rail connections is top of the agenda for the nation.

The Dublin Cork train is always packed. Dublin Belfast also and it makes perfect sense to introduce a HSR to connect the two. Running the service via Limerick is a mistake.

For me the guage is completely irrelevant. It should be segreated track anyways so it should be built to mainland europe specifications. So whenever the Tuskar tunnel is built we can run the trains all the way to Paris

Lennoxschips

The Dublin Cork train is always packed. Dublin Belfast also and it makes perfect sense to introduce a HSR to connect the two. Running the service via Limerick is a mistake.

It doesn't go via Limerick, it goes via Limerick junction.

A Dublin-Cork HSR just doesn't have the demand to be economically viable. The current main HSR routes in Europe are Brussels-Paris, London-Paris, Paris-Lyon-Marseille and Paris-Bordeaux and some links between major cities in Germany. Major cities in other words. To build a brand new HSR line on it's own alignment between Dublin and Cork direct would be madness. Cork is a city of 200,000, it's no Marseille or Brussels. It would never pay off. And that's not even taking the topography into account. HSR lines need straight and narrow, Ireland has hills and valleys. The first half of the Channel Tunnel rail link in the UK cost 2 billion pounds, for a 46 mile stretch. It's 160 miles from Dublin to Cork, so based on the UK figure we're looking at 7 billion sterling (roughly 10 billion euros) to build a new HSR from Dublin to Cork. That's not even including the cost of the rolling stock. It ain't gonna happen. And I hope to god that we would never waste that much money on a project like that.

I think the current alignment should be electrified and upgraded to 160 km/hr over its entire length. Then you're looking at an hour and three quarters from Heuston to Kent Station, which is very good going. I have no idea how much it would cost to electrify and upgrade the line, but it could offer good value for money. A similar electrified 100+ mph service between Dublin and Belfast could get you between the two cities in roughly an hour. Go HSR and we're shelling out billions for savings of 15-20 minutes, which really isn't worth it.

Let's worry about fixing the railways we have first.

dowlingm

200km/h as put forward by in the Indo this morning (real 200km/h in both trains and track) would eliminate any real advantage TGV would bring. The problem with a "straighter" line is that you come closer to various mountains and hills which the current route generally avoids.

Now, if through service Cork-Heuston P10-PPark Tunnel-Belfast could happen, that would be interesting!

BendiBus

Cork-Heuston-Airport-Belfast would be even more interesting.

Chris_533976

Make it Cobh-Cork-Heuston-Airport-Belfast

monument

dowlingm wrote:

200km/h as put forward by in the Indo this morning

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054905290

John R

Maskhadov wrote:

I dont know why some people here are so negative about HSR.

Because it is a childish fantasy that completely ignores the reality of Ireland's geography, population finances and government.

Maskhadov wrote:

For me the guage is completely irrelevant. It should be segreated track anyways so it should be built to mainland europe specifications.

If you knew the first thing about European HSR then you would realise that compatibility with existing lines is ESSENTIAL. They all use existing lines to access cities as the prospect of the huge financial and social cost of cutting a straight path into the heart of cities was far too great.

Maskhadov wrote:

So whenever the Tuskar tunnel is built we can run the trains all the way to Paris

And you wonder why people laugh at your posts?

A tunnel between Wexford and Pembrokeshire has no clear use for anyone. The idea that it would enable competitive rail travel from anywhere in Ireland to continental Europe is preposterous.

It takes approx 5 hours from Fishguard to London by rail, or do you actually think the British government are going to spend tens of Billions on a high speed link across south Wales that will benefit almost nobody in their country?

The conventional lines from Cardiff and Bristol to London already have the highest average speeds of any line in the UK with times of 2 hours from Cardiff and 1h40 from Bristol. At best HSR would cut 30mns off that, FFS in the medium term even electrifying the current lines has been ruled out.


Even if there was a continuous HSR line from Dublin via Tuskar through (Under) London, down the CTRL and the Channel Tunnel to Paris the best journey times even for Dublin-London would be slower than air travel. Dublin-Paris wouldn't even be close to air for journey times. Do you really think that even 50 full trains a day at competitive prices (sub €100 return to Paris) would be able to make a dent in the interest charges for the construction costs?

Transport21 Fan

John R wrote:

If you knew the first thing about European HSR then you would realise that compatibility with existing lines is ESSENTIAL.

Tell that the Spanish. Their AVE network is not built to Spanish gauge and it runs like a dream. So if you knew the first thing about European HSR you'd know the above comment is ESSENTIALLY incorrect.

I see no reason why a high speed line could not be built in Ireland within the next 20-25 years. The population of the island is forecast to reach 8 million by then - so why not.

A Dub in Glasgo

Any High Speed line will have to be compliant with the EU directive on Interoperability and the associated Technical Specifications for Interoperability.

Slice

Pie in the sky from the get-go

Doesn't matter how many high speed trains are ordered, almost the entire Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast route would have to be realligned to allow for them to run at the speeds they were designed to do. But even before this is even thought about it aint happening anyway - nuff said

Metrobest

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Tell that the Spanish. Their AVE network is not built to Spanish gauge and it runs like a dream. So if you knew the first thing about European HSR you'd know the above comment is ESSENTIALLY incorrect.

I see no reason why a high speed line could not be built in Ireland within the next 20-25 years. The population of the island is forecast to reach 8 million by then - so why not.

And the multi billion Euro HST from Barcelona to Paris is going to conform to standard gauge. A tunnel will be built under Barcelona to bring the line into the heart of the city.

The Spanish HSTs give a refund when the train is more than five minutes late.

But Ireland doesn't need a HST. The island is too small and there simply is not the population density to justify it. The Cork-Dublin trains are packed because:

(1) The road infrastructure between the two cities is inadequate
(2) Trains seem to stop in every little hamlet along the line
(3) Poor frequency

Bradidup

Transport21 Fan wrote:

A TGV for Ireland then.

.

Name it the VFT. ie Very fast train.

Transport21 Fan

Ireland will have a high-speed rail line by 2020. They can call it what they like. But it will happen. Just watch.

1huge1

mdebets wrote:

I think you are so 20th century. Ireland doesn't need highspeed rail, what we need is a Transrapid.

Ugly as hell but wow is that fast