TGV Ireland?

Transport21 Fan

A TGV for Ireland then.

What about it? Now that we have moved beyond the CIE engineers victorian traditional railway mentality, and are finally building metros and light rail in this country (thanks to the progressive RPA) would a TGV from Belfast-Dublin-Airport-Dublin-Naas-Clonmel-Cork be viable? Can't see any other routes being viable.

A cross-border project. The British government want to build loads more nuclear power stations so getting the power would not be so tricky. The population of the island would on the surface seem enough to make it a realistic option. The CIE railway network is slow and badly constructed and their engineers cannot even get their minds around concepts such as tilting trains to improve speeds on the Inter-City lines - a TGV would be the natural leap forward and the only way long distance rail travel in this country can survive as soon as the motorway programme is completed (which you, I and the dog knows will be never ending)

This would be for the end of T21 although half of me is scared about suggesting such an idea as you the Western Development Commission will want a TGV from Knock Airport to Roosky.

Maskhadov

I totally back the idea but the route would have to be Belfast - Dublin - Tuskar - Cork. Personally I would rather have ICE than TGV since you would contribute more to rail development. Tying in with Tuskar allows for access to England and the mainland Europe. This project should start in the next decade.

Transport21 Fan

Maskhadov wrote:

I totally back the idea but the route would have to be Belfast - Dublin - Tuskar - Cork. Personally I would rather have ICE than TGV since you would contribute more to rail development. Tying in with Tuskar allows for access to England and the mainland Europe. This project should start in the next decade.

Yes, you're right about ICE - it's not just a passenger line but designed to carry freight at collosal capacity and speed. I used "TGV" for a generic term for High Speed Rail.

I don't know about the Tuskar Tunnel idea - Ireland would need to have a population min. 20-30 million. If high-speed lines ever come to Ireland they need to be built to standard gauge. Talgo technology can be implemented to move container wagons between the two gauges. That's assuming tha private railfreight will operate on CIE lines.

Sponge Bob

Transport21 Fan wrote:

What about it? Now that we have moved beyond the CIE engineers victorian traditional railway mentality, and are finally building metros and light rail in this country (thanks to the progressive RPA) would a TGV from Belfast-Dublin-Airport-Dublin-Naas-Clonmel-Cork be viable? Can't see any other routes being viable..

LOL , ROFLMAO

Ehh No !

A Dub in Glasgo

Ain't going to happen. AFAIK, the Dublin - Belfast route was originally designated as a High Speed TEN route but that was clawed back to a conventional line by the Irish & British governments.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/ten/transport/maps/doc/schema/rails/2004_guidelines_rails_ireland_en.pdf

Metrobest

Transport21 Fan wrote:

would a TGV from Belfast-Dublin-Airport-Dublin-Naas-Clonmel-Cork be viable? .

I can picture it now.
*Station annnouncement at Cork* "The train about to depart from platform 2 is the TGV serving Clonmel, Naas, Dublin and Belfast."

dmeehan

Transport21 Fan wrote:

A TGV for Ireland then.

What about it? Now that we have moved beyond the CIE engineers victorian traditional railway mentality, and are finally building metros and light rail in this country (thanks to the progressive RPA) would a TGV from Belfast-Dublin-Airport-Dublin-Naas-Clonmel-Cork be viable? Can't see any other routes being viable.

A cross-border project. The British government want to build loads more nuclear power stations so getting the power would not be so tricky. The population of the island would on the surface seem enough to make it a realistic option. The CIE railway network is slow and badly constructed and their engineers cannot even get their minds around concepts such as tilting trains to improve speeds on the Inter-City lines - a TGV would be the natural leap forward and the only way long distance rail travel in this country can survive as soon as the motorway programme is completed (which you, I and the dog knows will be never ending)

This would be for the end of T21 although half of me is scared about suggesting such an idea as you the Western Development Commission will want a TGV from Knock Airport to Roosky.

what next :rolleyes:

Maskhadov

HSR will defintely be built for Belfast Dublin Cork. The only real question will be the route and either TGV or ICE.

The route has to go via Tuskar !!

BuffyBot

Can we have a stop at the Isle of Man while we're at it?

Transport21 Fan

Maskhadov wrote:

The route has to go via Tuskar !!

I don't even know were Tuskar is.

mdebets

I think you are so 20th century. Ireland doesn't need highspeed rail, what we need is a Transrapid.

Maskhadov

high speed rail is the european standard accepted by the vast majority european countries.

Tuskar is the very south east coast of ireland

Transport21 Fan

That Transrapid stuff is deadly alright. But ugly as sin.

Transport21 Fan

Maskhadov wrote:

Tuskar is the very south east coast of ireland

You mean Wexford?

Winters

We can't even fill the intercity trains and all of you are talking about HSR? On an island with a population of 5 million? Madness.

We should be looking at improving services, line speeds and train frequencies. Frequencies and new rolling stock is part of T21 but these new trains are capable of running at higher speeds than most of the track allows. Thats were massive improvments could be made.

By the way that pfd actually shows the Tralee - Fenit line intact. Strange that..

Transport21 Fan

Winters wrote:

We can't even fill the intercity trains and all of you are talking about HSR? On an island with a population of 5 million? Madness.

Most Enterprise and Dublin-Cork services are packed.

How many passengers would use it for Dublin Airport alone? A HSR connecting our three largest cities into Dublin Airport which is one of the most busy in Europe and the point were most people enter and exit the island of Ireland seems on the surface very workable.

murphaph

I think the numbers travelling Cork-Belfast and vice versa and from points in between would be quite limited. Dublin is the big pull factor.

I think the way ahead is to get in on HST2 and upgrade the existing cattle tracks to 125mph+ running. Remember that these lines penetrate the cities. A TGV new build would have great difficulty getting into the cities without sharing a lot of track space anyway.

Transport21 Fan

murphaph wrote:

I think the numbers travelling Cork-Belfast and vice versa and from points in between would be quite limited. Dublin is the big pull factor.

I think the way ahead is to get in on HST2 and upgrade the existing cattle tracks to 125mph+ running. Remember that these lines penetrate the cities. A TGV new build would have great difficulty getting into the cities without sharing a lot of track space anyway.

The only thing about that is CIE tracks are in bits and OnTrack 2000 was just a spit and polish, that the whole thing will have to be ripped up and new foundations, the works. If you are going to go that far and spend that kind of dosh you might as well build a HSR and future proof it.

murphaph

Transport21 Fan wrote:

The only thing about that is CIE tracks are in bits and OnTrack 2000 was just a spit and polish, that the whole thing will have to be ripped up and new foundations, the works. If you are going to go that far and spend that kind of dosh you might as well build a HSR and future proof it.

Ah, but then there's the land costs and all those new bridges etc. and you'd still have to share those CIE tracks from around Malahide, Hazelhatch and before the tunnel in Cork inbound

Chris_533976

Once Cork-Dublin is dual carriageway (2009) and the M50 interchanges are upgraded, it'll be much faster to drive to Dubin than take the current trains.

So the train numbers will drop I reckon, in 5 years time.

corktina

no i dont think so....cars will travel faster to dublin but then they will all be snarled up on the north quay for 2 hours like i was last night....2 hours + from M50 to Docks and 1 hour plus from there back to sir john rogersons quay.......oh my god...

BendiBus

Transport21 Fan wrote:

You mean Wexford?

But Wexford already has superfast trains. You can travel the 90-odd miles from Dublin in under 3 hours!

How's the Chunnel doing these days in terms of profitability. It links the worlds 4th (5th?) largest economy, and a population of 60 million, to mainland Europe. And it's had a pretty torrid time trying to earn its way.

I think we should have a bridge to Wales instead of a tunnel. Get that Calatrava guy to design it. He does nice bridges. Even if they all look the exact same. It would make a really good eposide of Megastructures on Discovery Channel.

Lennoxschips

the main objective should be getting the current rail infrastructure up to scratch, i.e. 160 km/hr from Cork to Dublin, city centre to city centre in less than 1 and 3/4 hours. No car can match that. We also need to improve the branch lines to minor destinations. Any high speed network would only be sucking much needed money away from the existing network.

Anyway, it ain't gonna happen under car mad Fianna Fail anyway.

Victor

Of course the problem dates back to c. 1850, Limerick Junction should have been built much closer to Limerick.

Lets face it Limerick Junction isn't exactly a metropolis, is it?

SeanW

One thing we're forgetting is that the price of oil is going to go up in the years ahead so rail has a strategic chance.

If there were ever to be HSR/ICE in or from Ireland, I'd see it happening along 2 lines.

1: Broad gauge HSR from Cork to Belfast via Dublin over the existing alignment heavily upgraded.
2: Standard gauge HSR from Dublin and Limerick Junction to Tuskar (with the existing lines ex-Wexford torn up and replaced) and on to Wales most likely by tunnel (or bridge but not likely).

The second is of course much more unlikely. But still something to think about.

Slippin Jimmy

SeanW wrote:

The second is of course much more unlikely. But still something to think about.

Yes, I like this idea very much. But somehow, I don't think it is possible. We would need to get working on it now if it was ever going to happen:D . lol

Transport21 Fan

Chris_533976 wrote:

Once Cork-Dublin is dual carriageway (2009) and the M50 interchanges are upgraded, it'll be much faster to drive to Dubin than take the current trains.

So the train numbers will drop I reckon, in 5 years time.

Yeah, inter-city rail is finished inthis country unless something radical is done. It's going to be all commuter rail and metro light rail etc.

but there is one project which has to be completed.

The Eastern Fish Corridor

www.east-on-water.cjb.net

(well done markf909)

parsi

Metrobest wrote:

I can picture it now.
*Station annnouncement at Cork* "The train about to depart from platform 2 is the TGV serving Clonmel, Naas, Dublin and Belfast."

Hey you left out Tuskar.... a place that would make Limerick Junction look like Manhattan

aliveandkicking

Transport21 Fan wrote:

but there is one project which has to be completed.

The Eastern Fish Corridor

www.east-on-water.cjb.net

(well done markf909)

I love it

monument

Transport21 Fan wrote:

That Transrapid stuff is deadly alright. But ugly as sin.

Not as much as you'd think, it looks a lot better then a motorway ripping through the landscape.

I’d be cautious to advocate it (or even European standard high speed rail) for Ireland. But it is worth noting that the Chinese are apparently going to build an extension, which will be the first inter-city “Maglev rail line in commercial service”.

corktina

personally I think they should drain all the water out of the Liffey between Heuston and O'Connell st and use that land for trains into the city centre...it's an awful waste of space just keeping water there isnt it? This is of much more practical nature than a cross channel bridge and tunnel and is far more likely to get built.....