How can I ever buy a house

chipper

Was in the same boat mate, actualy even worse , 40 yrs old and no property, i could afford the mortgage (barely) just couldnt secure it,. So registered my own business name (€25) and paid a accountant to apply for my mortgage saying i was earning €65-85,000 and got €250,000 mortgage,

Tha Gopher

Correct me if Im wrong but Ive a mate who bought a house in the Castlecurragh affordable housing estate in Mulhuddart (Blanchardstown) for about 130,000 iirc, about 3 years ago now, and he says he heard that although something like 20% of new Irish housing was meant to be affordable (developers would be forced to set aside 20% of homes built to the council for affordable distribution, presumably only homes of basic design of course, nothing fancy), that they basically found loopholes to the extent that Castlecurragh remains the only successful AH estate in Ireland, that the scheme has effectively ground to a halt.

Ive been thinking about it, and tbh if you start saving young and make shrewd moves you arent too fcuked. Im 19, and this year I expect to take in roughly 30,000 hopefully. About 10,000 will be spent on general living (food, possibly a car etc etc), and maybe five grand on the oul social life. Thats 15K per year stacked up. Fast forward 8-9 years, Im 28 odd, hopefully with a steady bird and maybe a kid. I would hope that, in todays terms, Id be earning at least 45,000 from my full time job if I advance up the ladder (which is very possible where I work). I already work 2 jobs (one good, one sh1t but it brings me a bit of extra cash), by the time Im 28 Id be hoping to have a 9- 5 normal job, and would do taxi driving/bouncing/bar work/whatever at night (Im too young now to do any type of weekend nightwork i just couldnt stick it, but when Im an old dad of 28 whos days of heavy drinking and going on the pull are long over id be well willing to do it). 10am to 2:30am as a bouncer and then hop in the cab as the clubs shut, its a fcukin cash cow).
Lets just assume the bird is earning 10K from a part time job, and the kid brings in what, maybe 3 grand of child benefit (BTW i should point out Im valuing it in todays terms- obviously in 10 years 3 grand wont buy as much as now, so whatever its worth in the future in buying power). Thats 60K in wages and benefit from my main job, her part time and the benefit. Lets add another maybe 400 per week from my part time bouncing/taxi work, which brings us nicely to an extra 16K odd per year. Thats 76K if like me you are perpared to put in a bit of hard graft. Lets deduct maybe 20 of that in tax. 56K. 30K in living expenses. So now I have my savings since I was 19 (120,000), lets just assume 50K of the birds savings (seeing as women cant save money )brings me to 170,000. So thats 170,000 plus 26 a year being saved.

So what do I do? I buy a gaff in Fortlawn or wherever (one of Blanchs rougher estates) for 180-190,000 (todays price). Probably wont even need a mortgage.Use the next 10 years to stack up my 26K per year. In 10 years ive got 260,000 and a gaff in a bad area worth maybe 220,000. I then sell up and use all this to buy a gaff in one of the better parts of Blanch 10 years and one or two more kids down the line. I can then quit two of my three jobs and live comfortably. From the age of 10 my oldest kid lives in a household free from the chain and ball of a mortgage that all their mates parents are tied down to for the next 25-30 years.
Sorted



Mind you, advising 18/19 year olds how to plan for the future is feck all use for a man of 30 in financial problems and merely smacks of I Told Ya So.

Sorry about that......

What inspires me though is hearing all the people in work in their late 20s early 30s who didnt bother saving for a mortgage and are now utterly fcuked. People who commute 90 mins- 2 hours to Dublin from Louth and mid/south Cavan. Who live with a bird/fella that they seem to have barely any life with due to financial stress "no we cant go there/buy that/do this, we`re paying off the mortgage". Who seem to think they cant even afford a kid until theyre 35- 40. Not all women have it in them to delay having one that late, so what happens then? You find yourself aged 42, divorced because of financial stress, paying off a mortgage and having no hope of having kids because you delayed it for longer than your body was suited. Bollix to that.


Also, without wishing to be too morbid, dont forget that in the next few years theres bound to be a bereavement in your family which will financially benefit you (sorry to say it, but everyone is on somebodys will list). I love my granny to bits but my maternal one only has a handful of grandkids(unlike my dads- she had 8 kids and god I must have 25-30 something cousins), and when shes gone it will knock a big chunk off the mortgage. All my dads brothers have kids so there will be nothing from that side. My mams two brothers officially dont have kids, i just get this feeling that at the funeral five young fellas with American accents in their early 30s who look awfully like my uncles will turn up demanding their share from the estate......

seanos

Hm, as mentioned above, there are a couple of government schemes to look into.

Shared Ownership
Affordable Housing Scheme
Affordable Housing Initiative

Each local authority has different rules/offers in relation to these schemes (the latter two anyway), so no point going only getting information from a single source.
The oasis gov site has fair bit of information, but again, some of it I have found to be out of date, so cross-reference with relevant local authority sites.

If interested in house, just keep eye out on local authority web sites of areas that you would be interested in, and wait for stuff to come up, could also try ringing said local authority and ask for info on upcoming schemes (for affordable housing scheme & initiative).

Guy:Incognito

Does anyone know if the shared ownership scheme is availble for people buildign a house? We have a large sid egarden which for years I have eaarmarked for my house. My family are all builders so it'll be getting built at more or less cost. I'm looking at a €150,000 ish mortgage.

Whats the rent on the councils half like?



***EDIT, just saw on one of teh links that buildign is on the scheme, yay, go me.

MadMoss

RobEire wrote:

half decent house

Speaking as someone who is involved in the design and managment of the construction of affordable housing all over the country i can confirm that the quality of affordable houses is usually better than that in the private market.
This is because the houses are paid for by the DOE and no corners are cut. The private sector is not so readily regulated. The hosues are then sold at cost.
Affordable houses and aprartments are generally all the same size and type, usually a 3 bed semi.
Dublin City council have difficulty in building becasue there is so liitle available land in the city, so if u want to live in Dublin check Fingal, South Dublin, and Dunlaoghaire Rathdown Co Co.'s.

Macker

Let me tell you a story ,in 1989 myself and then girlfriend now my wife wanted to buy a house for 22500 ,
I was 4 years out of my apprentship and earning decent money ,she had and still has a good clerical job ,
the most you could borrow was 90% so that was around 20000 ,stamp duty was 1900 ,legal fees were about 500 ,we had all that covered after babysitting for 2 years just so we had somewhere warm to cuddle and we were turned down 3 times for a mortgage ,
we eventually got an endowment mortgage from an insurgance broker at stupid rates and lived through 16% interest rates ,
remortaged twice since then for windows and central heating ,it was a hell of a lot harder back then ,
Takes B's advise ,hope it works out for you

Victor

I detect a note of panic in the original post.

The important thing is to have a roof over your head, not to own the roof.

Tha Gopher

MadMoss wrote:

Speaking as someone who is involved in the design and managment of the construction of affordable housing all over the country i can confirm that the quality of affordable houses is usually better than that in the private market.
This is because the houses are paid for by the DOE and no corners are cut. The private sector is not so readily regulated. The hosues are then sold at cost.
Affordable houses and aprartments are generally all the same size and type, usually a 3 bed semi.
Dublin City council have difficulty in building becasue there is so liitle available land in the city, so if u want to live in Dublin check Fingal, South Dublin, and Dunlaoghaire Rathdown Co Co.'s.

So they are still being built?

As for quality, i dunno, the walls in Castlecurragh are paper thin, its like living with the neighbours. Stayed over one night, at about 8am i heard the woman next door calling her daughter to get up for school.
Me, half asleep half awake, forgot i wanst at home and roared back "yeah ill be up in a minute"

annR

To get an affordable house or do the shared ownership thing you will need evidence that you are in the habit of saving regularly . . .you can always point to the rent as money you have but no harm to show you are putting other money aside no matter how small the amount.

Many people get turned away from this scheme because they can offer no proof they can pay a mortgage at all.

Try looking on www.askaboutmoney.com plenty of ideas there.

LegacyUser

Nosavingsboy wrote:

Hi everybody, feel free to close this if it seems u****ortant, but I'm starting to freak out at the idea of getting old and not ever woning a place to live. Any house in Dublin seems to be around €350,000. I'm now 30 and make €24000 a year. I am barely keeping my head above water at the moment, I always seem to dip into an overdraft by about the 3rd week of the month and am never able to put asside any savings. I am getting genuinely worried I will never be able to own my own property by the time I retire and as a result I am worried that retirement will mean instant poverty. I'm renting a house at the moment and I pay €900 a month, which is split between my girlfriend and I. Has anybody got any advice?

You don't have to buy in Dublin and you don't have to buy alone, you don't even have to buy with just yourself and your girlfriends income, you can apply for the shared ownership scheme.

Don't panic, there are lots of people in your situation, many young couples find it difficukt to get onto the property ladder, but just give time to all your options and discuss the pros and cons, you will be ok,

AlanD

Manny7 wrote:

Coney Island, there's no basis for this statement at all, people have been saying this for 10 years now and the market keeps going up. To rip off Greenspan, there's such irrational exuberance in the market that no-one knows where prices will go, they're not based on fundamentals anymore. They might go up 20% p.a. for the next 10 years, they might crash by 50% tomorrow, there's just no way of knowing.

it's this sort of naivity that will get a lot of people in to financial trouble pretty soon. There are economic models that can be applied to the Irish property market and it's these models that have been used to predict the downfall of the Irish property market. According to economists (who do know more than us, but are not fortune tellers), we are close to the end of a traditional cycle of fortune in property. The rise has been due to cheap interest rates, booming economy and massive spending power. The lack of any rise in rates meant the spending power is continuing unabated. The economists have been predicting that the bubble will burst for some time now, but as we all know, it hasn't burst yet. But what has happened is more criteria to help the bubble burst has been put in place, for example, borrowing exceeds income (effectively making the country bankrupt), interest rates are rising rapidly and the frenzy for foreign high risk properties is just gone crazy. These will all bring the market closer to the ground. The spending power will diminish, some people will default on mortgage payments because their lifestyle won't allow the increase in payments, some houses will be repossessed, investors will see more houses for sale, potentially seeing their house drop in value, so they will also sell, further fuelling the drop in house prices.

I believe we are on the cusp of a downturn in the market, more than ever. So if it was my money, I'd sit tight and wait a few more years for the market to calm down. Although if you're buying for a long term home, buy now while rates are cheap because you only lose money if you sell. Buying to invest? unless you can afford to lose money and not expect a massive dead-cert increase in value, stay away.

Tim06 wrote:

agreed, if people 'knew' that prices would go up 10% then stablise or decrease wouldn't it make far more sense to rent. fact is that nobody knows not even the supposed experts. its all just opinions and guesswork

Just because the supposed experts have not been proven right so far, it doesn't mean they are wrong. The cycle will end. Trust me. Hundreds of years of economic analysis has proven this to be the case before, so it will happen again.

Property will not always continue to rise in the meteroic way it has, as so many people believe. The bubble bursting won't be as catastrophic as the the tech stock market crash in 2000 either, it'll be a lot more subtle. But will hurt a lot of people.

sutty

OP, as I have said to you, you'd be better off buying else where. IE: Canada. Dont worry about the saving bit just yet. Give it a few months and things should sort them-selfs outr in work.

rollotomassi

sutty wrote:

OP, as I have said to you, you'd be better off buying else where. IE: Canada. Dont worry about the saving bit just yet. Give it a few months and things should sort them-selfs outr in work.

Funny you should mention that Sutty, my girlfriend is Canadian and I was thinking it might be easier if we move over there instead of trying to make a living here. The last thing I want is to end up in a situation where I have to keep borrowing more and more in order to be able to pay the bills, and that may be what happens if I try to make a future in Ireland. Canada would probably be a safer bet.

~Leanne~

Its terrible that in the 80's, thousands of young people like us had to move out of this country to find work. Now in this day and age we have to consider to move to be able to afford a house and decent lifestyle!

Saruman

Myself and wife bought a 3 bedroom detached bungalow in Rochfortbridge (on N6). It was €190k less than a year ago.
Mortgage is about €750pm but since i had to borrow for deposit (a month before 100% was announced) its closer to a grand but still no problem for the 2 of us.

We both work in Dublin and i can tell you i get gome quicker than a lot of pople in Dublin. With motorway we are 35 mins or so to Lucan. 40 mins to M50 (with no traffic, add 20 mins in morning). The commute is no prob.. And since we are only 10 mins from Mullingar (big town!!) we can get anything we need without the need to go to Dublin to shop.

kermitdfrog

Sorry to drag this up again, and I know it might be more appropriate on the Housing forum, but this thread had already addressed some issues that I was interested in...


Since I read this thread I've been looking into the Shared Housing scheme. By my reckoning, if you were to buy a property for, say, €250,000, the CC will pay up to 60% of that, or a maximum of €190,000. So that's 150k from the CC, leaving €100,000 for me. If I'm paying 4.3% rent on the portion of the house that the council owns, thats €6450 per annum, or €537.50 a month. Am I right?

That means that the total monthly payments on the mortgage(for 100,000, say €450pm) plus the rent(537.5), comes to close to a grand a month (987.5). But a mortgage for 250k would require repayments of roughly 1,100pm. Am I missing something? Am I calculating the rent correctly? It doesnt seem to be any more 'affordable' than getting a mortgage for the full value of the property. I now its more available that way (in that you require no deposit, and you might not get a mortgage for the full value approved), but it doesnt seem to be any more affordable (which is the whole point according to oasis.gov.ie... The Shared Ownership Scheme is aimed at people in Ireland who cannot afford to buy their entire home in one go.).*


Also, can anyone tell me the restrictions on the property? Can you rent out a room? If you do, are the CC entitled to a % of your rental income? Does your rental income come into consideration when your eligibility is ascertained? (i.e is your income calculated on your salary + rent ?)


* I know that as you increase the property value, the difference between paying a mortage, and paying a mortage on 40% plus CC rent increases. E.g. 316,000 property. CC pays 190,000, I pay 126,000, mortage = 557pm, rent = 680pm, total 1237pm, mortage on same = 1500pm. Still not a drastic difference in affordability.

cupsoftea

Tha Gopher wrote:

Correct me if Im wrong but Ive a mate who bought a house in the Castlecurragh affordable housing estate in Mulhuddart (Blanchardstown) for about 130,000 iirc, about 3 years ago now, and he says he heard that although something like 20% of new Irish housing was meant to be affordable (developers would be forced to set aside 20% of homes built to the council for affordable distribution, presumably only homes of basic design of course, nothing fancy), that they basically found loopholes to the extent that Castlecurragh remains the only successful AH estate in Ireland, that the scheme has effectively ground to a halt.

Ive been thinking about it, and tbh if you start saving young and make shrewd moves you arent too fcuked. Im 19, and this year I expect to take in roughly 30,000 hopefully. About 10,000 will be spent on general living (food, possibly a car etc etc), and maybe five grand on the oul social life. Thats 15K per year stacked up. Fast forward 8-9 years, Im 28 odd, hopefully with a steady bird and maybe a kid. I would hope that, in todays terms, Id be earning at least 45,000 from my full time job if I advance up the ladder (which is very possible where I work). I already work 2 jobs (one good, one sh1t but it brings me a bit of extra cash), by the time Im 28 Id be hoping to have a 9- 5 normal job, and would do taxi driving/bouncing/bar work/whatever at night (Im too young now to do any type of weekend nightwork i just couldnt stick it, but when Im an old dad of 28 whos days of heavy drinking and going on the pull are long over id be well willing to do it). 10am to 2:30am as a bouncer and then hop in the cab as the clubs shut, its a fcukin cash cow).
Lets just assume the bird is earning 10K from a part time job, and the kid brings in what, maybe 3 grand of child benefit (BTW i should point out Im valuing it in todays terms- obviously in 10 years 3 grand wont buy as much as now, so whatever its worth in the future in buying power). Thats 60K in wages and benefit from my main job, her part time and the benefit. Lets add another maybe 400 per week from my part time bouncing/taxi work, which brings us nicely to an extra 16K odd per year. Thats 76K if like me you are perpared to put in a bit of hard graft. Lets deduct maybe 20 of that in tax. 56K. 30K in living expenses. So now I have my savings since I was 19 (120,000), lets just assume 50K of the birds savings (seeing as women cant save money )brings me to 170,000. So thats 170,000 plus 26 a year being saved.

So what do I do? I buy a gaff in Fortlawn or wherever (one of Blanchs rougher estates) for 180-190,000 (todays price). Probably wont even need a mortgage.Use the next 10 years to stack up my 26K per year. In 10 years ive got 260,000 and a gaff in a bad area worth maybe 220,000. I then sell up and use all this to buy a gaff in one of the better parts of Blanch 10 years and one or two more kids down the line. I can then quit two of my three jobs and live comfortably. From the age of 10 my oldest kid lives in a household free from the chain and ball of a mortgage that all their mates parents are tied down to for the next 25-30 years.
Sorted



Mind you, advising 18/19 year olds how to plan for the future is feck all use for a man of 30 in financial problems and merely smacks of I Told Ya So.

Sorry about that......

What inspires me though is hearing all the people in work in their late 20s early 30s who didnt bother saving for a mortgage and are now utterly fcuked. People who commute 90 mins- 2 hours to Dublin from Louth and mid/south Cavan. Who live with a bird/fella that they seem to have barely any life with due to financial stress "no we cant go there/buy that/do this, we`re paying off the mortgage". Who seem to think they cant even afford a kid until theyre 35- 40. Not all women have it in them to delay having one that late, so what happens then? You find yourself aged 42, divorced because of financial stress, paying off a mortgage and having no hope of having kids because you delayed it for longer than your body was suited. Bollix to that.


Also, without wishing to be too morbid, dont forget that in the next few years theres bound to be a bereavement in your family which will financially benefit you (sorry to say it, but everyone is on somebodys will list). I love my granny to bits but my maternal one only has a handful of grandkids(unlike my dads- she had 8 kids and god I must have 25-30 something cousins), and when shes gone it will knock a big chunk off the mortgage. All my dads brothers have kids so there will be nothing from that side. My mams two brothers officially dont have kids, i just get this feeling that at the funeral five young fellas with American accents in their early 30s who look awfully like my uncles will turn up demanding their share from the estate......

My gosh, I sure hope your life works out like you planned. Best of luck finding a little wifey to stay home and mind your kids while you are out working all day and night, but who will still bring in a few bob through a little part time work of her own.

to the OP, don't lose hope. Look at all the options people have put forward and keep saving what you can. Put as much as you can afford into saving scheme which you can't get easy access to. The savings adding up,no matter how slowly ,will give you options and also bargaining power with bank.
Best of luck.

gurramok

Also to add how ridiculous it has become, i know 4 people personally who are in 27-35 age group who are staying at home and relying on house inheritance for whenever their parents pass away so they have somewhere to live without a massive mortgage!
This despite the fact that they are partners with kids etc.
It really is scandalous the housing situation, I sympathise with OP, there are thousands like you (including me) in the same position.
Try the affordable/shared ownership option as said above, not all offerings are in rough areas.

Beruthiel

kermitdfrog wrote:

Since I read this thread I've been looking into the Shared Housing scheme. By my reckoning, if you were to buy a property for, say, €250,000, the CC will pay up to 60% of that, or a maximum of €190,000

at the moment the co. co. will give you up to 230k in dublin. It is up to you what percentage you wish to pay as mortgage and rent. (rented part being cheaper)

can anyone tell me the restrictions on the property? Can you rent out a room?

why tell them you would do that?
I don't know the answer to that btw, but I doubt they would be interested in going down that road.
the loan is calculated on your income alone, that I am sure of.

your best bet is just go in and talk to them, each case is different and you have nothing to loose by asking.

Dagon

To be honest, I actually find this thread quite scary. To think that a 19 year old has his life planned out like that - in every detail - is just mad. But I guess that's the world we live in, and he's much better prepared than me!!..

All this talk of money and mortgages and saving and loans has made me realise how little I am clued into this whole thing! At 25, I don't even know the first thing about house buying or loans (never even got one, always save to buy stuff, even cars)! I don't think I even want a house tbh, I'm completely happy as I am (I know I won't be a pensioner in poverty because by then I'll have the parents house).. life is so short, and in the current climate it just seems like too much stress for too many years, and for what? It won't make you happier, you'll never get to enjoy it because you're bending over backward for many years just to pay it off. If you're getting a huge salary, then go for it obviously. But if not...?

I'm not in Dublin, so my rent is only €45 per week. A house seems like such a huge thing to buy. A mate of mine purchased in the last year, and he's spent all his life so far saving for it, and it's still costing him buckets of cash to get up and running.

The race to get your foot on the ladder is another rat race. But the good thing about this thread is that it's got me thinking about this thing more seriously, and definitely getting on the property ladder (or at least thinking about it) is wise for someone my age (even though I still feel 21 lol)...

And Mr.19 year old with the big plan - 28 isn't so old mate! In two years I'll be 28, and I can tell, you won't feel much differently to when you were 19!!! My days of niteclubbin, going out and going daft, having the craic and chasin women are far from over (I'm in no rush to settle down with a bird just yet)!! In fact, maybe that's the problem, that I just feel so totally... unsettled? And a house seems like such an alien world to me... a settled "grown up" world! Maybe it's time for me to grow up eh?

Wise words: "The important thing is to have a roof over your head, not to own the roof."

delboy159

To the 19 year old who has things mapped out

"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." - John Lennon.

I hope things work out for you, and in the likely event things don't - just role with the punches and keep working towards whatever makes you happy.

Psygnosis

Ok guys I am going to through my hat into the arena here.
27 bought 2 bed apt in Skerries (lovely area)
I was on 22k at the time. Apt 190K load Credit union of 10 happy days
1 hour to work

Rogueish

My little brother at the tender age of 22 bought a three bedroom house in Drogheda one year ago for €190k. He's working in Dublin - his basic salary is €28,000. He can earn up to €40,000 with overtime and unsocial hours allowance. But his mortgage was calclulated on his income alone of €30,000.

When we were growing up and as teenagers Mam and Dad never took money off us towards housekeeping etc but always insisted on us saving it. Mum would tell us that if she saw us pissing it away she would be the first one waiting for us at the front door with her hand out on pay day.

Anyway back on point. As a result my brother was able to have a deposit for his house. His way of looking at it was that if he continued on the way he was that he would have squandered his cash and have had nothing to show for it. At least now he has comething concrete (excuse the pun) to show for his hard work. His mortgage repayments are €660 per month (over 35 years). He is more than able to have a social life. He commutes 40mins to work.

His house has gone up in price by €40,000 in the last year and his way of looking at it is that he will hold onto it for another few years, sell it at profit and move home while he finds another property.

As for those of you that are relying on inheriting the family home. What will happen if your parents need long term care when they get old and have to release the equity on their home or mortgage/sell their home to pay for that long term care? At the very least you will have to be prepared to pay a mortgage of some sort. At the most you will be homeless and have to stand on your own two feet.

I do realise that living at home is the only viable financial option for some in todays climate. All I'm saying is to be prepared. Enjoy life but save some too.

It can be done so don't lose hope

Selik

Anyone who expects to have their parents' house when they eventually pass away is rather foolish if you ask me. Reason being, alot of "our" parents may have to rely on their hame as a pension themselves (taking into accound the current pensions timebomb scenario) or to pay for care if it's needed. Granted, if the house is worth 5 million you'll get a decent slice either way but for regular Joe's nothing's guaranteed. Also, people are living longer and our parents are likely to outlive previous generations and who wants to be living with their parents when you're 60 years old!!!

[Jackass]

How do you work out what your mortgage payments would be on the joint ownership scheme?

Say for example i was buying 40% of a 300k house...i know you have to buy the place outright within 30yrs...so is it calculated over a 30yr term or what?

Could someone smarter than me work that out and show me how you did it?

Thanks

(OP thousands are in the same boat as you...i'm 23 and am trying to get something somewhere)