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How can I ever buy a house

  • 14-03-2006 11:39am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi everybody, feel free to close this if it seems unimportant, but I'm starting to freak out at the idea of getting old and not ever woning a place to live. Any house in Dublin seems to be around €350,000. I'm now 30 and make €24000 a year. I am barely keeping my head above water at the moment, I always seem to dip into an overdraft by about the 3rd week of the month and am never able to put asside any savings. I am getting genuinely worried I will never be able to own my own property by the time I retire and as a result I am worried that retirement will mean instant poverty. I'm renting a house at the moment and I pay €900 a month, which is split between my girlfriend and I. Has anybody got any advice?


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    You could always buy a first house down the country somewhere, rent it out and it a couple of years use the equity to buy a house in Dublin that you can live in.
    Over-simplifying a little perhaps but on your salary, you're not going to get a house in Dublin any time soon so buy elsewhere to get your foot on the ladder.
    You could even move in to it and commute for 2 or 3 years. It's a pain in the ass but you have to make sacrifices.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭lukin


    It's a tough one alright, I feel for you but the only thing I can think of to console you is that you are not the only one. There are thousands like you.
    A friend of mine has a house but it's too small for him and his family now.
    They have four kids but can't afford to buy a bigger place.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    why do you need to go unregged?
    this would be better suited to the property forum.

    to answer your question, do what I did.
    go to the Dublin Co.Co. (big government building on the Quays) ask to apply for a shared ownership home loan - it's there for people who don't make much money, so you're perfect.
    shared ownership means that you own half the property and the dublin co. co. own the other half - repayments on the mortgage are cheaper because you are only paying half the mortgage - the other half is paid by the co. co. - they will charge you rent for their half, but it's still cheaper than paying a full mortgage.
    later on when you have a bit more money in your pocket, you can buy them out.
    when you get your loan, find a tiny apt. and start from there.
    I did that 7 years ago and have since sold the apt and managed to buy a house because of the profit I made on the apt.
    If I could do that by myself, so can you!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    Thankfully I don't live anywhere near Dublin so house prices aren't near as crazy that.
    Surely between you & your gf €900 / month or slightly more would pay a mortgage for you, instead of throwing it away each month to pay someone else's mortgage.
    If not, you could let out a room in your own property to cover the extra amt.

    I'm assuming you haven't spoken to any building societies / banks etc to see what you chances are. You could be surprised.
    What about those 100% mortgages & similar products like that.

    What sort of salary is your gf on (I don't really want to know the answer to that, but my point is), combined with yours the banks might find you eligible.

    Could you move to the outskirts where prices might be less outrageous.

    How's about buying an apartment on the outskirts. You should certainly be able to afford that, hopefully be able to save a bit while making those mortgage repayments & then in a few years, put the apartment against a bigger property with savings you've managed to acquire.

    Like I say, I'm nowhere near Dublin, so that might all be impossible, but I'd look at every single avenue open to you before I'd continue paying off someone elses mortgage.
    Best of luck to you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks Beruthiel, thats brilliant advice. I did not know such a service existed. I went unregged because I did not want people I know to identify me and read other personal issues I posted. Sorry for putting it on the wrong board, I just stick to Personal Issues and After Hours, so I didn't know about the property one.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭uzami


    2 bed apt on Mountjoy Sq for €275k

    http://www2.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=247287&np=&rt=search&searchlist=


    Assuming your girlfriend is on the same salary as yourself you should be able to get 100% finance for in and around this sort of price range.

    Repayments over 35 years would be approx €1100pm (not including tax relief). Which should bring it down to €980 (you'd have to factor in mortgage protection insurance etc thereafter)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Ag marbh


    900 a month is well enough to pay a mortgage repayment!


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    no problemo, it saved my life that loan! :D and when I sold my apt. it was to a girl who got the shared ownership loan from them.

    btw
    I forgot to mention, you will need a small deposit, I believe it's €1,300 they are asking these days.
    You should be able to get that much together no?

    do not mention that you have a g/f - you are a single man with hardly any dosh, trying to buy a house...
    if you earn more than 30k, they will not give you the loan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭anthony_086170


    all i can say is im 25 and earn €40,000 and bough my house a year ago with my younger brother he's 22 and we borrowed €225,000 and thats costing us €873 a month mortgage and thats piss easy to pay but the deposite was a killer,

    all my friends piss there money up against the wall and thats the problem,

    why dont you move back with ur folks or gf folks and save that €900 a month for deposit ok its not much considering houses going up so fast but why not get a 100 % mortgage and rent the house out at least ur foots in the door

    anyway i payed €250,000 last feb and now there €340,000

    €90,000 in a year is stupid money


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    why dont you move back with ur folks or gf folks and save that €900 a month for deposit

    with the shared ownership scheme all he needs for the deposit is €1,300 ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Unregged,

    Chin up dude...

    Beruthiel is on the ball. In the last house that i rented in before buying; the landlady had orignally bought the house with the corpo on that halfo-halfo scheme. Not only do you have a foothold until your income goes up, but the equity on your half of the gaff can all go toward helping you buy out the corpo/council when the time comes. Thing is though, get in ASAP so you dont go over the threshold..

    Like beruthiel says, as far as the corpo goes, you are single and on 24k. You then split the repayments with your mot and you both get on the ladder when the time comes. Easy :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Jonny Arson


    OP - You're not the only one who feels like this I can assure you.

    I'm personally freaked about the future and I know for a fact I'll never be able to afford to live in Dublin or probably any place in the rest of Ireland. My sister and her husband are struggling to afford a 250,000 euro mortgage and that's cheap compared to today's extortionate prices! Houses near me in a quite average area are going for over 500,000! It's madness.

    I'm feel down thinking about the future, I'm in college and I know I'll come out with a basic annual wage. I don't have a hope, I'm certain I won't be living in this country by the time I'm 25. Society factors like this are alienating so many young people. No matter what everyone says I can't see for the life of me that I'll ever be able to have a great lifestyle in this country. Even if I do find a cheaper house in the country I'll probably have to spend at least 3-4 hours commuting to work everyday. How can ever be good for a family lifestyle outside of weekends?

    This current rip-off culture especially with housing will haunt our nation in the next 5-10 years time. I know many other young people like me who are ready to pack their bags. As a society accept it when there are many solutions to combatting this serious problem but of course as we all know our current sham of a government who have let this happen will be sadly voted back in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    Ok, I'm going to be shot for saying this but:-

    You don't HAVE to work in Dublin. People actually do survive & find jobs outside of Dublin, so commuting doesn't have to be an issue.

    I know lots Don't want to move out of Dublin & you're entitled to that view, but you also want to own property that you can't afford to do while in Dublin.

    Yes, pay is less than what you'd get in Dublin, but so is the cost of living, so you end up no worse off.

    I bought a 3bedroom property about 1.5years ago for LESS THAN €100K!! :eek:

    Yes, you're all thinking it had to have been a dive, I thought so too before I viewed it & I couldn't believe my eyes so I put in an offer right away & got it.
    I was V lucky because this isn't the standard price in my area (I've never seen anything like it since), but prices are still 100's of 1000's less than in Dub.

    It cost me less than €5k to do any work to it that I felt was needed, mortgage repayments are less than €400 / month (a lot less than what I could rent for)

    (& it's already gone up over €50 in value since I got it, & I haven't checked in a while, so it could be more)

    I don't mean this in a bad way, but Dublin is not the centre of the universe, if you just thought outside of Dublin you could find yourself a V happy, financially better off homeowner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    BoozyBabe wrote:
    Ok, I'm going to be shot for saying this but:-

    You don't HAVE to work in Dublin. People actually do survive & find jobs outside of Dublin, so commuting doesn't have to be an issue.

    I know lots Don't want to move out of Dublin & you're entitled to that view, but you also want to own property that you can't afford to do while in Dublin.

    Yes, pay is less than what you'd get in Dublin, but so is the cost of living, so you end up no worse off.

    I bought a 3bedroom property about 1.5years ago for LESS THAN €100K!! :eek:

    Yes, you're all thinking it had to have been a dive, I thought so too before I viewed it & I couldn't believe my eyes so I put in an offer right away & got it.
    I was V lucky because this isn't the standard price in my area (I've never seen anything like it since), but prices are still 100's of 1000's less than in Dub.

    It cost me less than €5k to do any work to it that I felt was needed, mortgage repayments are less than €400 / month (a lot less than what I could rent for)

    (& it's already gone up over €50 in value since I got it, & I haven't checked in a while, so it could be more)

    I don't mean this in a bad way, but Dublin is not the centre of the universe, if you just thought outside of Dublin you could find yourself a V happy, financially better off homeowner.

    Jaysus, you were very lucky indeed!

    OP, I share your worries! I am 29 in a couple weeks! I live at home still as I don't earn an awful lot of money! I cannot see myself ever been able to afford a house, especially in Dublin.

    Alot of the house prices are sky high outside of Dublin too! Galway for example is quite expensive too! They are all catching up slowly but surely with Dublin.

    I would dearly love my own place, just for little old me. But in this country is impossible unless you are very well off! I am starting to consider moving abroad which is something I swore I would never do.

    I will look into that shared ownership thingy as suggested by a previous poster as it sounds interesting! But to me that sounds like council houses in rough areas (correct me if I am wrong) and I don't want to end up in a dirty, run down area full of scumbags! Sounds harsh, but I want to live in a safe environment!

    Its very worrying indeed!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Downtime


    BoozyBabe wrote:
    (& it's already gone up over €50 in value since I got it, & I haven't checked in a while, so it could be more)

    50k I guess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    Downtime wrote:
    50k I guess.

    :o Yes!:o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    No offence BB but its not exactly ideal for a lot of people to just uproot and move down to the country if they are born and bred and Dublin. Not giving out, just saying that the 'up sticks' option is probably last resort for many people

    BoozyBabe wrote:
    I don't mean this in a bad way, but Dublin is not the centre of the universe, if you just thought outside of Dublin you could find yourself a V happy, financially better off homeowner.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    py2006 wrote:
    But to me that sounds like council houses in rough areas (correct me if I am wrong)

    you are wrong
    the co. co. gives you the loan, it is up to you where you buy your home (as long as it's within their catchment area) I bought my apt. in Chapelizod.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭RobEire


    Try affordable housing - the ceiling for eligibility is €30k (at least in Fingal Co. Council) and you would get a half decent house through this scheme. It is a bit of a waiting game but perhaps worth it if no alternatives exist for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 rollotomassi


    I'm the OP. The more I hear about this government scheme, the more I like it. There may be light at the end of the tunnel after all. My girlfriend and I could definitely afford the kind of payments that are being described, and owning half a house and having the option to buy out the rest is much preferable to spending lots of money every month and having nothing to show for it after 20 years. As stupid as it sounds, the longer I leave it, the more despondent I become. I make less than the average wage for my age, with no sign that thats going to improve any time soon, and I have to fight the feeling that, at 30, I left it too late to get on the property ladder. With this government scheme I may be able to turn things around. Thanks again for the advice everybody.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,218 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    You should remember that altho this seems like a good idea in the first instance, interest rates are at historically low levels and likely to rise further. Always factor for an raise in rates. Many people are already finding that these days renting is cheaper than paying a mortgage and will protect you in the event of housing prices depreciating.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭Johnee


    As other posters said, look at your CC schemes first - affordable housing, and the loan one.

    If these dont work, be very careful about buying just for the sake of it. Interest rates are going to go up (I personally think quite considerably with US continuing to rise) so being able to stretch yourself to just about afford a 100% mortgage on a house miles from Dublin which you dont want to live in long-term is a bad idea.

    Its very much a personal preference but at the moment in Dublin, you can rent a house for 60-70% of what it would cost to get a mortgage. Plus, with recent legislation, tenants have a lot more rights - the right to a four-year lease after 6 months for a start. So you can have security of tenure for some long-term planning too.

    People will tell you its 'dead money', and that 'sure, you could be getting your own place with a bit more'.

    Remember though, they're assuming you can afford somewhere you want to live (which is unlikely - you'll get a much nicer place for less rent), and that prices will keep going up.

    Which, if they dont, will mean a lot of people stuck in houses they bought (as someone else here suggested) to raise the equity for a bigger house. You'll still be on your way to owning your own house but it will be one you dont want.

    Mortgages can tie you to a horrible home for 30-40 years if everything goes wrong. Renting doesnt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭TempestSabre


    all i can say is im 25 and earn €40,000 ....

    What do you mate? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭twanda


    Beruthiel - do you know if all county councils offer this shared ownership scheme, or is it just Dublin County Council? thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    They all do.
    Ring the switch board for you local county council and ask to speak to someone about shared ownership.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭chump


    OP: plenty of options

    Shared Ownership:
    http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/buying_a_house_or_flat/shared_ownership.html

    Low Cost Housing Site:
    http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/buying_a_house_or_flat/low_cost_housing_sites.html

    Affordable Housing Scheme:
    http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/buying_a_house_or_flat/affordable_housing_scheme.html

    The income test for Affordable Housing Scheme:The income test

    * Single income household

    If your gross income (before tax) in the last income tax year was 40,000 euro or less (effective January 2006), (previously the limit was 36,500 euro), you are eligible.

    * Two income households

    Multiply the gross income (before tax) of the higher earner in the last income tax year by 2.5 and add the gross income of the other earner in the last income tax year. If the answer is 100,000 or less (effective January 2006), (previously the limit was 92,000 euro), you are eligible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭cupsoftea


    There are people considering moving country because they can't afford to live in Ireland. I think moving out of Dublin to somewhere else in Ireland is something worth considering for these people.
    There are loads of places in Ireland where property is cheap, pints are cheap, traffic isn't chaos. I'm living in Dublin now and I love it, but i can't afford to go out 4 nights a week like i could in other places I used to live. Cork is less than an hour from beaches moutains etc, with fab restaurants, pubs, theatre , shops etc. Galway is so relaxed and compact. Limerick is modern and clean with really good value property. Smaller towns offer even better value for money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭Coney Island


    I don't think house prices will go any higher. Maybe 10%, no more. Then they will get stable or maybe decrease. Or maybe an economic crisis could drop the house price of 50% in 10 years times....who knows! Don't assume that house price will go up forever though...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭Manny7


    I don't think house prices will go any higher. Maybe 10%, no more. Then they will get stable or maybe decrease. QUOTE]

    Coney Island, there's no basis for this statement at all, people have been saying this for 10 years now and the market keeps going up. To rip off Greenspan, there's such irrational exuberance in the market that no-one knows where prices will go, they're not based on fundamentals anymore. They might go up 20% p.a. for the next 10 years, they might crash by 50% tomorrow, there's just no way of knowing.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 38 Tim06


    Manny7 wrote:
    I don't think house prices will go any higher. Maybe 10%, no more. Then they will get stable or maybe decrease. QUOTE]

    Coney Island, there's no basis for this statement at all, people have been saying this for 10 years now and the market keeps going up. To rip off Greenspan, there's such irrational exuberance in the market that no-one knows where prices will go, they're not based on fundamentals anymore. They might go up 20% p.a. for the next 10 years, they might crash by 50% tomorrow, there's just no way of knowing.

    agreed, if people 'knew' that prices would go up 10% then stablise or decrease wouldn't it make far more sense to rent. fact is that nobody knows not even the supposed experts. its all just opinions and guesswork


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 29 chipper


    Was in the same boat mate, actualy even worse , 40 yrs old and no property, i could afford the mortgage (barely) just couldnt secure it,. So registered my own business name (€25) and paid a accountant to apply for my mortgage saying i was earning €65-85,000 and got €250,000 mortgage,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    Correct me if Im wrong but Ive a mate who bought a house in the Castlecurragh affordable housing estate in Mulhuddart (Blanchardstown) for about 130,000 iirc, about 3 years ago now, and he says he heard that although something like 20% of new Irish housing was meant to be affordable (developers would be forced to set aside 20% of homes built to the council for affordable distribution, presumably only homes of basic design of course, nothing fancy), that they basically found loopholes to the extent that Castlecurragh remains the only successful AH estate in Ireland, that the scheme has effectively ground to a halt.

    Ive been thinking about it, and tbh if you start saving young and make shrewd moves you arent too fcuked. Im 19, and this year I expect to take in roughly 30,000 hopefully. About 10,000 will be spent on general living (food, possibly a car etc etc), and maybe five grand on the oul social life. Thats 15K per year stacked up. Fast forward 8-9 years, Im 28 odd, hopefully with a steady bird and maybe a kid. I would hope that, in todays terms, Id be earning at least 45,000 from my full time job if I advance up the ladder (which is very possible where I work). I already work 2 jobs (one good, one sh1t but it brings me a bit of extra cash), by the time Im 28 Id be hoping to have a 9- 5 normal job, and would do taxi driving/bouncing/bar work/whatever at night (Im too young now to do any type of weekend nightwork i just couldnt stick it, but when Im an old dad of 28 whos days of heavy drinking and going on the pull are long over id be well willing to do it). 10am to 2:30am as a bouncer and then hop in the cab as the clubs shut, its a fcukin cash cow).
    Lets just assume the bird is earning 10K from a part time job, and the kid brings in what, maybe 3 grand of child benefit (BTW i should point out Im valuing it in todays terms- obviously in 10 years 3 grand wont buy as much as now, so whatever its worth in the future in buying power). Thats 60K in wages and benefit from my main job, her part time and the benefit. Lets add another maybe 400 per week from my part time bouncing/taxi work, which brings us nicely to an extra 16K odd per year. Thats 76K if like me you are perpared to put in a bit of hard graft. Lets deduct maybe 20 of that in tax. 56K. 30K in living expenses. So now I have my savings since I was 19 (120,000), lets just assume 50K of the birds savings (seeing as women cant save money :) )brings me to 170,000. So thats 170,000 plus 26 a year being saved.

    So what do I do? I buy a gaff in Fortlawn or wherever (one of Blanchs rougher estates) for 180-190,000 (todays price). Probably wont even need a mortgage.Use the next 10 years to stack up my 26K per year. In 10 years ive got 260,000 and a gaff in a bad area worth maybe 220,000. I then sell up and use all this to buy a gaff in one of the better parts of Blanch 10 years and one or two more kids down the line. I can then quit two of my three jobs and live comfortably. From the age of 10 my oldest kid lives in a household free from the chain and ball of a mortgage that all their mates parents are tied down to for the next 25-30 years.
    Sorted



    Mind you, advising 18/19 year olds how to plan for the future is feck all use for a man of 30 in financial problems and merely smacks of I Told Ya So.

    Sorry about that......

    What inspires me though is hearing all the people in work in their late 20s early 30s who didnt bother saving for a mortgage and are now utterly fcuked. People who commute 90 mins- 2 hours to Dublin from Louth and mid/south Cavan. Who live with a bird/fella that they seem to have barely any life with due to financial stress "no we cant go there/buy that/do this, we`re paying off the mortgage". Who seem to think they cant even afford a kid until theyre 35- 40. Not all women have it in them to delay having one that late, so what happens then? You find yourself aged 42, divorced because of financial stress, paying off a mortgage and having no hope of having kids because you delayed it for longer than your body was suited. Bollix to that.


    Also, without wishing to be too morbid, dont forget that in the next few years theres bound to be a bereavement in your family which will financially benefit you (sorry to say it, but everyone is on somebodys will list). I love my granny to bits but my maternal one only has a handful of grandkids(unlike my dads- she had 8 kids and god I must have 25-30 something cousins), and when shes gone it will knock a big chunk off the mortgage. All my dads brothers have kids so there will be nothing from that side. My mams two brothers officially dont have kids, i just get this feeling that at the funeral five young fellas with American accents in their early 30s who look awfully like my uncles will turn up demanding their share from the estate......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭seanos


    Hm, as mentioned above, there are a couple of government schemes to look into.

    Shared Ownership
    Affordable Housing Scheme
    Affordable Housing Initiative

    Each local authority has different rules/offers in relation to these schemes (the latter two anyway), so no point going only getting information from a single source.
    The oasis gov site has fair bit of information, but again, some of it I have found to be out of date, so cross-reference with relevant local authority sites.

    If interested in house, just keep eye out on local authority web sites of areas that you would be interested in, and wait for stuff to come up, could also try ringing said local authority and ask for info on upcoming schemes (for affordable housing scheme & initiative).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Does anyone know if the shared ownership scheme is availble for people buildign a house? We have a large sid egarden which for years I have eaarmarked for my house. My family are all builders so it'll be getting built at more or less cost. I'm looking at a €150,000 ish mortgage.

    Whats the rent on the councils half like?



    ***EDIT, just saw on one of teh links that buildign is on the scheme, yay, go me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86 ✭✭MadMoss


    RobEire wrote:
    half decent house
    Speaking as someone who is involved in the design and managment of the construction of affordable housing all over the country i can confirm that the quality of affordable houses is usually better than that in the private market.
    This is because the houses are paid for by the DOE and no corners are cut. The private sector is not so readily regulated. The hosues are then sold at cost.
    Affordable houses and aprartments are generally all the same size and type, usually a 3 bed semi.
    Dublin City council have difficulty in building becasue there is so liitle available land in the city, so if u want to live in Dublin check Fingal, South Dublin, and Dunlaoghaire Rathdown Co Co.'s.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Macker


    Let me tell you a story ,in 1989 myself and then girlfriend now my wife wanted to buy a house for 22500 ,
    I was 4 years out of my apprentship and earning decent money ,she had and still has a good clerical job ,
    the most you could borrow was 90% so that was around 20000 ,stamp duty was 1900 ,legal fees were about 500 ,we had all that covered after babysitting for 2 years just so we had somewhere warm to cuddle and we were turned down 3 times for a mortgage ,
    we eventually got an endowment mortgage from an insurgance broker at stupid rates and lived through 16% interest rates ,
    remortaged twice since then for windows and central heating ,it was a hell of a lot harder back then ,
    Takes B's advise ,hope it works out for you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,648 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I detect a note of panic in the original post.

    The important thing is to have a roof over your head, not to own the roof.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    MadMoss wrote:
    Speaking as someone who is involved in the design and managment of the construction of affordable housing all over the country i can confirm that the quality of affordable houses is usually better than that in the private market.
    This is because the houses are paid for by the DOE and no corners are cut. The private sector is not so readily regulated. The hosues are then sold at cost.
    Affordable houses and aprartments are generally all the same size and type, usually a 3 bed semi.
    Dublin City council have difficulty in building becasue there is so liitle available land in the city, so if u want to live in Dublin check Fingal, South Dublin, and Dunlaoghaire Rathdown Co Co.'s.

    So they are still being built?

    As for quality, i dunno, the walls in Castlecurragh are paper thin, its like living with the neighbours. Stayed over one night, at about 8am i heard the woman next door calling her daughter to get up for school.
    Me, half asleep half awake, forgot i wanst at home and roared back "yeah ill be up in a minute" :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭annR


    To get an affordable house or do the shared ownership thing you will need evidence that you are in the habit of saving regularly . . .you can always point to the rent as money you have but no harm to show you are putting other money aside no matter how small the amount.

    Many people get turned away from this scheme because they can offer no proof they can pay a mortgage at all.

    Try looking on www.askaboutmoney.com plenty of ideas there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi everybody, feel free to close this if it seems u****ortant, but I'm starting to freak out at the idea of getting old and not ever woning a place to live. Any house in Dublin seems to be around €350,000. I'm now 30 and make €24000 a year. I am barely keeping my head above water at the moment, I always seem to dip into an overdraft by about the 3rd week of the month and am never able to put asside any savings. I am getting genuinely worried I will never be able to own my own property by the time I retire and as a result I am worried that retirement will mean instant poverty. I'm renting a house at the moment and I pay €900 a month, which is split between my girlfriend and I. Has anybody got any advice?


    You don't have to buy in Dublin and you don't have to buy alone, you don't even have to buy with just yourself and your girlfriends income, you can apply for the shared ownership scheme.

    Don't panic, there are lots of people in your situation, many young couples find it difficukt to get onto the property ladder, but just give time to all your options and discuss the pros and cons, you will be ok,


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭AlanD


    Manny7 wrote:
    Coney Island, there's no basis for this statement at all, people have been saying this for 10 years now and the market keeps going up. To rip off Greenspan, there's such irrational exuberance in the market that no-one knows where prices will go, they're not based on fundamentals anymore. They might go up 20% p.a. for the next 10 years, they might crash by 50% tomorrow, there's just no way of knowing.

    it's this sort of naivity that will get a lot of people in to financial trouble pretty soon. There are economic models that can be applied to the Irish property market and it's these models that have been used to predict the downfall of the Irish property market. According to economists (who do know more than us, but are not fortune tellers), we are close to the end of a traditional cycle of fortune in property. The rise has been due to cheap interest rates, booming economy and massive spending power. The lack of any rise in rates meant the spending power is continuing unabated. The economists have been predicting that the bubble will burst for some time now, but as we all know, it hasn't burst yet. But what has happened is more criteria to help the bubble burst has been put in place, for example, borrowing exceeds income (effectively making the country bankrupt), interest rates are rising rapidly and the frenzy for foreign high risk properties is just gone crazy. These will all bring the market closer to the ground. The spending power will diminish, some people will default on mortgage payments because their lifestyle won't allow the increase in payments, some houses will be repossessed, investors will see more houses for sale, potentially seeing their house drop in value, so they will also sell, further fuelling the drop in house prices.

    I believe we are on the cusp of a downturn in the market, more than ever. So if it was my money, I'd sit tight and wait a few more years for the market to calm down. Although if you're buying for a long term home, buy now while rates are cheap because you only lose money if you sell. Buying to invest? unless you can afford to lose money and not expect a massive dead-cert increase in value, stay away.
    Tim06 wrote:

    agreed, if people 'knew' that prices would go up 10% then stablise or decrease wouldn't it make far more sense to rent. fact is that nobody knows not even the supposed experts. its all just opinions and guesswork

    Just because the supposed experts have not been proven right so far, it doesn't mean they are wrong. The cycle will end. Trust me. Hundreds of years of economic analysis has proven this to be the case before, so it will happen again.

    Property will not always continue to rise in the meteroic way it has, as so many people believe. The bubble bursting won't be as catastrophic as the the tech stock market crash in 2000 either, it'll be a lot more subtle. But will hurt a lot of people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,014 ✭✭✭sutty


    OP, as I have said to you, you'd be better off buying else where. IE: Canada. Dont worry about the saving bit just yet. Give it a few months and things should sort them-selfs outr in work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 rollotomassi


    sutty wrote:
    OP, as I have said to you, you'd be better off buying else where. IE: Canada. Dont worry about the saving bit just yet. Give it a few months and things should sort them-selfs outr in work.


    Funny you should mention that Sutty, my girlfriend is Canadian and I was thinking it might be easier if we move over there instead of trying to make a living here. The last thing I want is to end up in a situation where I have to keep borrowing more and more in order to be able to pay the bills, and that may be what happens if I try to make a future in Ireland. Canada would probably be a safer bet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 538 ✭✭✭~Leanne~


    Its terrible that in the 80's, thousands of young people like us had to move out of this country to find work. Now in this day and age we have to consider to move to be able to afford a house and decent lifestyle!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    Myself and wife bought a 3 bedroom detached bungalow in Rochfortbridge (on N6). It was €190k less than a year ago.
    Mortgage is about €750pm but since i had to borrow for deposit (a month before 100% was announced) its closer to a grand but still no problem for the 2 of us.

    We both work in Dublin and i can tell you i get gome quicker than a lot of pople in Dublin. With motorway we are 35 mins or so to Lucan. 40 mins to M50 (with no traffic, add 20 mins in morning). The commute is no prob.. And since we are only 10 mins from Mullingar (big town!!) we can get anything we need without the need to go to Dublin to shop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 302 ✭✭kermitdfrog


    Sorry to drag this up again, and I know it might be more appropriate on the Housing forum, but this thread had already addressed some issues that I was interested in...


    Since I read this thread I've been looking into the Shared Housing scheme. By my reckoning, if you were to buy a property for, say, €250,000, the CC will pay up to 60% of that, or a maximum of €190,000. So that's 150k from the CC, leaving €100,000 for me. If I'm paying 4.3% rent on the portion of the house that the council owns, thats €6450 per annum, or €537.50 a month. Am I right?

    That means that the total monthly payments on the mortgage(for 100,000, say €450pm) plus the rent(537.5), comes to close to a grand a month (987.5). But a mortgage for 250k would require repayments of roughly 1,100pm. Am I missing something? Am I calculating the rent correctly? It doesnt seem to be any more 'affordable' than getting a mortgage for the full value of the property. I now its more available that way (in that you require no deposit, and you might not get a mortgage for the full value approved), but it doesnt seem to be any more affordable (which is the whole point according to oasis.gov.ie... The Shared Ownership Scheme is aimed at people in Ireland who cannot afford to buy their entire home in one go.).*


    Also, can anyone tell me the restrictions on the property? Can you rent out a room? If you do, are the CC entitled to a % of your rental income? Does your rental income come into consideration when your eligibility is ascertained? (i.e is your income calculated on your salary + rent ?)


    * I know that as you increase the property value, the difference between paying a mortage, and paying a mortage on 40% plus CC rent increases. E.g. 316,000 property. CC pays 190,000, I pay 126,000, mortage = 557pm, rent = 680pm, total 1237pm, mortage on same = 1500pm. Still not a drastic difference in affordability.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭cupsoftea


    Tha Gopher wrote:
    Correct me if Im wrong but Ive a mate who bought a house in the Castlecurragh affordable housing estate in Mulhuddart (Blanchardstown) for about 130,000 iirc, about 3 years ago now, and he says he heard that although something like 20% of new Irish housing was meant to be affordable (developers would be forced to set aside 20% of homes built to the council for affordable distribution, presumably only homes of basic design of course, nothing fancy), that they basically found loopholes to the extent that Castlecurragh remains the only successful AH estate in Ireland, that the scheme has effectively ground to a halt.

    Ive been thinking about it, and tbh if you start saving young and make shrewd moves you arent too fcuked. Im 19, and this year I expect to take in roughly 30,000 hopefully. About 10,000 will be spent on general living (food, possibly a car etc etc), and maybe five grand on the oul social life. Thats 15K per year stacked up. Fast forward 8-9 years, Im 28 odd, hopefully with a steady bird and maybe a kid. I would hope that, in todays terms, Id be earning at least 45,000 from my full time job if I advance up the ladder (which is very possible where I work). I already work 2 jobs (one good, one sh1t but it brings me a bit of extra cash), by the time Im 28 Id be hoping to have a 9- 5 normal job, and would do taxi driving/bouncing/bar work/whatever at night (Im too young now to do any type of weekend nightwork i just couldnt stick it, but when Im an old dad of 28 whos days of heavy drinking and going on the pull are long over id be well willing to do it). 10am to 2:30am as a bouncer and then hop in the cab as the clubs shut, its a fcukin cash cow).
    Lets just assume the bird is earning 10K from a part time job, and the kid brings in what, maybe 3 grand of child benefit (BTW i should point out Im valuing it in todays terms- obviously in 10 years 3 grand wont buy as much as now, so whatever its worth in the future in buying power). Thats 60K in wages and benefit from my main job, her part time and the benefit. Lets add another maybe 400 per week from my part time bouncing/taxi work, which brings us nicely to an extra 16K odd per year. Thats 76K if like me you are perpared to put in a bit of hard graft. Lets deduct maybe 20 of that in tax. 56K. 30K in living expenses. So now I have my savings since I was 19 (120,000), lets just assume 50K of the birds savings (seeing as women cant save money :) )brings me to 170,000. So thats 170,000 plus 26 a year being saved.

    So what do I do? I buy a gaff in Fortlawn or wherever (one of Blanchs rougher estates) for 180-190,000 (todays price). Probably wont even need a mortgage.Use the next 10 years to stack up my 26K per year. In 10 years ive got 260,000 and a gaff in a bad area worth maybe 220,000. I then sell up and use all this to buy a gaff in one of the better parts of Blanch 10 years and one or two more kids down the line. I can then quit two of my three jobs and live comfortably. From the age of 10 my oldest kid lives in a household free from the chain and ball of a mortgage that all their mates parents are tied down to for the next 25-30 years.
    Sorted



    Mind you, advising 18/19 year olds how to plan for the future is feck all use for a man of 30 in financial problems and merely smacks of I Told Ya So.

    Sorry about that......

    What inspires me though is hearing all the people in work in their late 20s early 30s who didnt bother saving for a mortgage and are now utterly fcuked. People who commute 90 mins- 2 hours to Dublin from Louth and mid/south Cavan. Who live with a bird/fella that they seem to have barely any life with due to financial stress "no we cant go there/buy that/do this, we`re paying off the mortgage". Who seem to think they cant even afford a kid until theyre 35- 40. Not all women have it in them to delay having one that late, so what happens then? You find yourself aged 42, divorced because of financial stress, paying off a mortgage and having no hope of having kids because you delayed it for longer than your body was suited. Bollix to that.


    Also, without wishing to be too morbid, dont forget that in the next few years theres bound to be a bereavement in your family which will financially benefit you (sorry to say it, but everyone is on somebodys will list). I love my granny to bits but my maternal one only has a handful of grandkids(unlike my dads- she had 8 kids and god I must have 25-30 something cousins), and when shes gone it will knock a big chunk off the mortgage. All my dads brothers have kids so there will be nothing from that side. My mams two brothers officially dont have kids, i just get this feeling that at the funeral five young fellas with American accents in their early 30s who look awfully like my uncles will turn up demanding their share from the estate......


    My gosh, I sure hope your life works out like you planned. Best of luck finding a little wifey to stay home and mind your kids while you are out working all day and night, but who will still bring in a few bob through a little part time work of her own.

    to the OP, don't lose hope. Look at all the options people have put forward and keep saving what you can. Put as much as you can afford into saving scheme which you can't get easy access to. The savings adding up,no matter how slowly ,will give you options and also bargaining power with bank.
    Best of luck.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Also to add how ridiculous it has become, i know 4 people personally who are in 27-35 age group who are staying at home and relying on house inheritance for whenever their parents pass away so they have somewhere to live without a massive mortgage!
    This despite the fact that they are partners with kids etc.
    It really is scandalous the housing situation, I sympathise with OP, there are thousands like you (including me) in the same position.
    Try the affordable/shared ownership option as said above, not all offerings are in rough areas.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Since I read this thread I've been looking into the Shared Housing scheme. By my reckoning, if you were to buy a property for, say, €250,000, the CC will pay up to 60% of that, or a maximum of €190,000

    at the moment the co. co. will give you up to 230k in dublin. It is up to you what percentage you wish to pay as mortgage and rent. (rented part being cheaper)

    can anyone tell me the restrictions on the property? Can you rent out a room?

    why tell them you would do that?
    I don't know the answer to that btw, but I doubt they would be interested in going down that road.
    the loan is calculated on your income alone, that I am sure of.

    your best bet is just go in and talk to them, each case is different and you have nothing to loose by asking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Dagon


    To be honest, I actually find this thread quite scary. To think that a 19 year old has his life planned out like that - in every detail - is just mad. But I guess that's the world we live in, and he's much better prepared than me!!..

    All this talk of money and mortgages and saving and loans has made me realise how little I am clued into this whole thing! At 25, I don't even know the first thing about house buying or loans (never even got one, always save to buy stuff, even cars)! I don't think I even want a house tbh, I'm completely happy as I am (I know I won't be a pensioner in poverty because by then I'll have the parents house).. life is so short, and in the current climate it just seems like too much stress for too many years, and for what? It won't make you happier, you'll never get to enjoy it because you're bending over backward for many years just to pay it off. If you're getting a huge salary, then go for it obviously. But if not...?

    I'm not in Dublin, so my rent is only €45 per week. A house seems like such a huge thing to buy. A mate of mine purchased in the last year, and he's spent all his life so far saving for it, and it's still costing him buckets of cash to get up and running.

    The race to get your foot on the ladder is another rat race. But the good thing about this thread is that it's got me thinking about this thing more seriously, and definitely getting on the property ladder (or at least thinking about it) is wise for someone my age (even though I still feel 21 lol)...

    And Mr.19 year old with the big plan - 28 isn't so old mate! In two years I'll be 28, and I can tell, you won't feel much differently to when you were 19!!! My days of niteclubbin, going out and going daft, having the craic and chasin women are far from over (I'm in no rush to settle down with a bird just yet)!! In fact, maybe that's the problem, that I just feel so totally... unsettled? And a house seems like such an alien world to me... a settled "grown up" world! Maybe it's time for me to grow up eh?

    Wise words: "The important thing is to have a roof over your head, not to own the roof."


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