Does Paddy Power Poker care?

RMcG

I play poker for a living and have done for two years, think everyone here knows that.......great.

I have one MAJOR problem, I am a tilt monster, I can play excellent poker for 10 hours and one really bad beat and I just go tilt crazy, I have tried everything from week long breaks to gym sessions to hot baths to everything! But nothing cures it! NOTHING!

So I take steps to best manage it in a way that works for me. And the one that I find works well is restricting my account so that I can only deposit a certain amount a day. In my case thats 350 Euro on betfair. If I lose this in a session I cant buy back in and have to wait 24 hours to play again and if I have lost through a bad beat I come back 24 hours later refreshed and ready to play properly.

But it isnt as steady as that, If i am really in a mess from losing to a one outer etc. I have in the past set up accounts with various poker companies. Party poker, poker stars william hill and Paddy power. I would consider these my tilt accounts for chasing losses or at least I did.

Party poker and poker stars are set up with my credit card and dont accept laser so to avoid tilting off thousands of dollars here I canceled my credit card. William hill dont provide any sort of responsible gambling and after tilting off thousands here I had to sign forms to get my account completely closed for good, and this was a tremendous effort.

This leaves Paddy Power Poker, this is a secondary account for me but its not just a tilt account in that I like the small buy in tournaments that they have to offer Irish Poker players to larger Irish tournaments.

So after tilting off a decent amount of cash on paddy power poker I decided to limit my account to 100 Euro a week, this being the smallest amount that you can limit your account to.

This was fine until I had a horendous session of cards on betfair when I was up about two grand and had a number of beats two outers...trips v flush draws etc etc and so on. All part of poker I know but if you have a tilt problem....this would have the same effect as putting an alcoholic in a bath of vodka....I just saw red....and went straight to my Paddy Power Poker account and tilted my weekly 100 euro in two hands. I was fuming so i chanced my arm and rang Paddy Power Poker to see if I could get some cash on my laser card over the phone.

30 seconds later I had 400 Euro in my account no questions asked, I didnt give a sh1t becasue I was steaming and I wanted to chace my days losses. I ended up ringing Paddy Power Poker three times and getting approx 1200 euros put in my account in the space of an hour.......

Last night I was playing in the Fitz and lost 300 Euros, no real big deal but for a 10 hour session its pretty pathetic and late in the night I had a few bad beats.......went home at half seven in the morning and rang Paddy Power Poker....

They once again wavered my account restrictions without any questions and I ended up tilting off bout 400 Euros.

I went to bed and was quite annoyed with myself and I remembered watching Prime Time on RTE earlier in the night and that big wig communications officer or what ever he called himself harping on about how Paddy Power are so in love with their customers and do everything in their power to encourage responsible gambling.

So I decided to test their loyalty to their customers......I rang up Paddy Power Poker tonight and explained to them that I had a restriction on my account of 100 Euros a week The guy on the phone checked and comfirmed, I asked him if I had a restriction on my account how was it that I could just pick up the phone and call them and get any amount of cash deposited on my account without any regards to the resrtiction agreement that I had with Paddy Power.

They were very apologetic and said that I souldnt have been able to deposit and that from now on my account would be restricted to 100 Euro a week both on the interenet and over the phone.

Great I thought to myself now my mind is at peace, after all Paddy Power Poker went on mainstream Irish TV and told the country that they really care about their customers....but thats not what I really thought.

So I give it an hour and ring paddy power poker back up.

Hi can I deposit 400 Euro cash on my card.....
Yes sir User Name? and security questions????
Blah blah blah...20 seconds later 400 Eiuro on my account...

So i stop the guy and say that I rang up an hour ago and put a restriction of 100 Euro a week on my account...and tell him the whole story and then ask him how in hell is it possible that I can ring back an hour later and deposit as much as i like....so I get him to withdraw the 400 Euro back on my account and he is full of apologies once again.....what sort of People/ do Paddy Power Poker employ....

Now if it is fine, the tilt problem is my problem and i admit that on a scale I am above average to seeing red mist.

My advice to anyone else who has there account restriced would be to play at a site that can be trusted to keep to the restriction agreements to the agreed level, for example Betfair. Paddy Power cannot be trusted to do this.
:mad:




<edit by DeVore for civility>

DeVore

If you reduce the tone and abusive language of your post I'll allow it to stand. Its a valid question but not phrased politely enough, this isnt a soapbox nor a public lynching scaffold.

DeV.

fixer

dude, get some help.

businesses lie all the time. the cynical call that the marketing dept. you're not going to change it, so change your own behaviour. there are professionals to help you with this.

DeVore

fixer wrote:

dude, get some help.

businesses lie all the time. the cynical call that the marketing dept. you're not going to change it, so change your own behaviour. there are professionals to help you with this.

This I agree with too. There is tilt but blowing 1200 is waaay beyond that. If you have been a pro for 2 years you should have gotten used to out-draws etc. How do you make any money if this is your response to bad beats?

I'm not kidding about the tone either. I would not and do not expect any company rep to come and answer your question the way it is currently phrased.

DeV.

RMcG

LOL.....if you point me in the direction of tilt help I will gladly go along. I earn 36 thousand Euros a year from poker tax free.

Its not anything special and with the amount of money some people earn for poker its pittance.

But I would estimate that my profit or wages would be 20% higher if I didnt tilt, so I probably tilt off about 7 thousand euros a year.

It is a problem but not a major one.....but Paddy Power Poker fasley advertise that they care when they dont....thats my point.

Dev I also find it very funny that you jump to the defence of the only company advertised on your website, is this not a free speech forum for Irish poker players. I think everyone should know that Paddy Power lie to their customers and run a circus custmer srvice dapartment.

Delete this if you like, but if you do its pertty easy to see who pays the bills at the freedom of speech boards.ie.

DeVore

7 years of providing freedom of speech in this country, 7 years of insisting on that speech being CIVIL and this is what is thrown in my face. Typical. Edit it or I will, all I'm asking is that its civil.

DeV.

ps: I'm pretty hacked off about your cheap shot that I'm only insisting on civilty because of my relationship with Paddys. Also please point out where I even mentioned deletion??
Because its not like I have never insisted on it before....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2140872&highlight=civility#post2140872
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=871517&highlight=civility#post871517
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=586352&highlight=civility#post586352
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=600251&highlight=civility#post600251
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=651840&highlight=civility#post651840
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=668118&highlight=civility#post668118
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=771966&highlight=civility#post771966
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=810075&highlight=civility#post810075
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=850149&postcount=35&highlight=civility
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=855223&highlight=civility#post855223

lolkelly

I for one found this a very interesting read! You dont hear things like this because people would be afraid to come out and tell others the depths of their losses because of how bad thier tilts get.

Although with organisations that make all their profit from other peoples losses, is anyone surprised. would be interesting to hear what someone high up in PP had to say about this. I gurantee that your not the first person who this has happened to.

DeVore

I've horrifically impinged your civil liberties and edited your post to make it civil. The content has barely changed beyond deleting expletives. Good manners is usually the next thing people are taught after "sit on the toilet before you do that".

If you don't like it, call the UN.

DeV.

jtsuited

i agree wholeheartedly with RmcG on this issue. It really gets to me when i see these smug 'communications/public relations' types on television talking about responsible gambling. It's like the facade diageo put up about 'drinking resposnsibly'. If everyone drank 'responsibly' and gambled 'responsibly' these companies would probably go broke.
If there is one thing i really can't tolerate it's businesses lying, and Paddy Power have a MAJOR issue to sort out if they want to continue putting those smug people on television pretending that they have an active concern about problem gambling.

ditpoker

i could be very wrong but have done A SMALL amount of corporate law, if you have a contract with paddypower whereby they agree to limit your account to $100 a week and they take approx $1200 from you in that same week then they are actually liable for the $1100 extra they took from you. I havent read ppp's terms and conditions and im sure they have probably covered their asses on this one, but if it were me i'd be banging on their door looking for my money that they agreed to never take from me... that said if you have no contract you've no outs!!!

and please keep it civil...

PPP-Pit Boss

I have replied to RmcG personally on this post.

Imposter

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

I have replied to RmcG personally on this post.

How about replying to everyone seeing as it was aired on a public forum?

As was noted on a different thread we haven't have a good lynching in ages

kincsem

If you can't handle your money then you could lose the lot in a short time.

It appears the Paddy Power will process your requests (presumably from your credit card) and ignore your instruction to limit the amounts. They have never refused a bet from me, except when the amount and odds were high, and they stood to lose a six figure sum (a few hundred on a horseracing double).

I suggest you cancel your credit cards, give some money to someone you trust, and give them your instructions. You can't trust yourself, and you can't trust Paddy Power.

I've just busted out of a sit & go when my pocket QQ was put all-in on the flop by pocket 77 that missed the flop. Turn was a 7 and I'm out. I can accept that. You will have to learn to ignore these beats.

Bookmakers like a constant stream of medium sized bets - the famous expression from a few years ago was "recycling dole money". You fit the profile of their preferred client. A regular.

DeVore is an ok guy. He does not depend on Paddy Power. But I doubt if he should support you against them when you are the person who is a little out of control.

Do you need to make changes?

califano

kincsem wrote:

when my pocket QQ was put all-in on the flop by pocket 77

Gotcha?:p

kincsem

rounders123 wrote:

Gotcha?:p

He didn't say "I'll put you all-in" so that doesn't count.

It was "Patrick Swayze" (muppet) in a $10 sit & go on PokerStars. "Dirty Dancing" my a***.

But I'm not bitter, twisted, tilted, steaming.

Well, yes I am. :mad:

califano

Fair enough then. You get off on a technicality so

The Gecko

RMcG wrote:

LOL.....if you point me in the direction of tilt help I will gladly go along. I earn 36 thousand Euros a year from poker tax free.

It’s not anything special and with the amount of money some people earn for poker its pittance.

But I would estimate that my profit or wages would be 20% higher if I didn’t tilt, so I probably tilt off about 7 thousand euros a year.

Hi RMcG,

Just two quick points:

1) If you are a pro, then you are in the business of playing poker, so you must run it like any other business and make clinical decisions without emotion for the greater good of the company or in this case your bottom line.

If you employed someone that wasted 20% of the annual revenue he could earn for your company by losing the rag at a client. I am guessing that you would fire that employee. If you gave him a second chance and he does the same thing next year. Then you have no choice but to let him go.

Now as you can't sack your self at least realise that over a 10 year period of dropping 7K a year you have wasted 2 years of your life playing poker (based on earning 35K per year or in poker terms a couple of trips to the WSOP.

The reason I am pointing out the obvious is that you don't seem too concerned over the 7k and if this is the case then don't focus on Paddy Power because it’s your problem and it sounds like you would have found another site to tilt on. YOU and know one else must make the decision to change how you tilt, no amount of blocked accounts will stop you if gambling is the way you choose to vent your anger.

2) Based on your post, Paddy Power have let you down, they have a corporate social responsibility to all their clients and presuming everything you say is on the level, in this case they have failed miserably and should be brought to task. I would suggest that you follow this up and get a satisfactory answer as to why you were put at risk by negligence on their behalf.

Finally, as there are no tilt control classes maybe you should try anger management, or buy a stack of porn and punish yourself instead of your wallet.:D

Degag

Sorry mate, paddy power may have been wrong, but in your state of mind if he didn't take it someone else would have.

If you can't handle bad beats you shouldn't be playing poker.

RMcG

Thank you for the replies. Dev sorry about the cheap shot but I came out and was honest and said what I felt. But you do promote and advertise Paddy Power Poker and that can only leave you biased on this subject.

I admit I have a problem in that my tilting or over emotional responses to bad beats cost my profit (note profit) to be 20% lower than it should be. Now I also agree that this is my problem, and not the bookmakers. I cant just walk into a high street bookies lose 400 quid and then complain that they took it for me, it was my fault I decided to gamble and thats that.

But as eplained Paddy Power Poker agreed a limit on my account via the internet. They then agree a limit over the phone after me complaining to them and one hour later they break that agreement.

Now this is bad enough but they then take up valuable air time on RTE pretending that they care about responsible gambling when as I have proved they do not.

This would seem to me as if Paddy Power Poker lied to the Irish Public in order to make money.......

RMcG

Typical...Paddy Powers response to my post is below.

Hi there. I was saddened to read you post. Gambling addiction is a very real problem and I would hate this thread to turn into an off topic argument and for your views to be buried in it. I am sending you this message personally as although you posted your problem publicly I dont wish to make the situation anymore frustrating by airing your issue publicly. I urge you to get help for this issue. Please at your earliest convenience call either of the following organisations for expert help:

Gamcare provide a confidential telephone counselling national helpline for anyone who is concerned about their own, or someone else's gambling. The international gambling helpline is: +44 845 6000 133

Gamblers Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who have joined together to do something about their own gambling problem and to help other compulsive gamblers do the same. www.gamblersanonymous.org.uk

Our gaming support team are trained to treat gambling addiction problems when they arise unfortunately it is difficult at times to immediately notice the difference between losing streaks and gambling addiction.

I will look into your case and make sure it was handled within our guidelines but right now I am concerned only with your problem and dealing with that.

Can you please let me know your account name and I will immediately shut it down which is possibly the first and best step to take to tackle this issue. Then I again urge you to call one of the numbers above and talk to someone about this issue.

Please keep your chin up, admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.
Kindest Regards
Nikki Newman

Are they actually insane lolololololol.

I play poker for a living, and have done for two years, did you not read that. I make a very nice wage from Poker ..... My problem is that Paddy Power poker have lied to the Irish Public and Lie about their care for responsible gambing. Repeat.........WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO SAY ABOUT YOUR LIES AND WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO SAY ABOUT BREAKING YOUR AGREEMENT WITH ME ONLY AN HOUR AFTER I GOT OFF THE PHONE

There response is pathetic...absolutely pathetic and has just angered me more.

In fact Im going to see if any newspapers would like to take this incident up, only a couple of days after going on RTE television and telling everyone how much they care....this happens........i wonder would any of them be interested

White Knight

to be honest, from your opening post if i did not know you (and i dont) i would say gambling problem straight away regardless of how you try justify it

RMcG

If you make a profit of 36K a year from playing poker how is it a problem? Im sure lots of people would like this problem. And a one line contribution is brilliant thanks for your input.

Maybe when i start making 72K a year I'll be twice as bad.

TrueDub

RMcG wrote:

Thank you for the replies. Dev sorry about the cheap shot but I came out and was honest and said what I felt. But you do promote and advertise Paddy Power Poker and that can only leave you biased on this subject.

Can't agree with you here - advertising does not make a site beholden to that advertiser. Just because PPP have an ad here does not mean that this site is a shill for PPP. This has been shown regularly here. This Board does not "promote" PPP, it promotes poker, no matter where it's played. Long may that last.

RMcG wrote:

I admit I have a problem in that my tilting or over emotional responses to bad beats cost my profit (note profit)

RMcG wrote:

This would seem to me as if Paddy Power Poker lied to the Irish Public in order to make money.......

Possibly, They wouldn't be the first, nor will they be the last. We have Taoisigh who've done that, FFS.

OK, PPP should have abided by the agreement not to let you lodge/bet more than you agreed. But surely the major point is this:

Asking a bookmaker (or online poker site) to ensure you don't go mad betting is like asking a turkey to vote for Christmas.

They want you to bet or play. If you do this when you're on tilt, or drunk, or stoned, or upset, or medically unfit, that's your lookout.

You need to look inwards for solutions, not outwards. You're complaining about a symptom here, not a cause.

RMcG

Listen If Paddy Power Pokers outlook was, we are a bookmaker, come bet with us as much as you like and we'll take your cash, full stop....then I wouldnt be complaing.

I am complaining about the fact that the set up agreements with customers becasue they say they care about responsible gambling, and then go on a serious priogramme on television dealing with drug addiction and gambling addiction and lie!!!!!

They dont care as I have proved.

If they didnt care about resposible gambling an said they didnt care then I would have nothing to say. But they dont care and say that they do care...which I have a big problem with.

White Knight

did it ever come to your mind that it may be a genuine mistake or a undetected system fault?

you said in your OP that it would not allow you to deposit more but you wanted to "chance your arm" and rang up and see if you could deposit because you were fuming

either of which would still be unacceptable but would be a reason.

RMcG

If you want to be great at something you have to be pretty much addicted to it. I am definitely addicted to poker and like to think that I am pretty good at it too, and I love being addicted to it...why would I not be, it lets me not have to do my old boring computer programmer job...and I take holidays whenever I want, travel the world, Oh what a problem. Oh somebody save me Im addicted to 36 thousand Euro a year !

A great comment by Andy Black when he was interviewed by Ryan Tubridy sums this up.

Tubridy "Are you addicted to Gambling"
Andy "I would like to think so, yes."

I am laughing at Paddy Powers reply, talk about putting a blanket over the topic and creating a smoke screen with using me as an addicted gambler.

Pathetic.

Doc Farrell

a very interesting thread.

please remember everyone to be civil and not take it personally if RmcG disagrees with you as it would be a shame to see the thread locked by dev.

and dev would be in the right to edit or lock it as there is no excuse for bad manners no matter how deeply you feel on the subject.

maybe take some time out and write ur views in the morning.

Cianos

RMcG wrote:

If you make a profit of 36K a year from playing poker how is it a problem?

This isnt a valid statement. Just because you make money out of it doesnt mean it is not problematic. Sure you may have a load of cash, but that doesnt mean its having an overall positive effect on your life.

Happiness and well being are not proportionate to how much money you have.

Vikings

RMcG wrote:

I just saw red....and went straight to my Paddy Power Poker account and tilted my weekly 100 euro in two hands. I was fuming so i chanced my arm and rang Paddy Power Poker to see if I could get some cash on my laser card over the phone.

30 seconds later I had 400 Euro in my account no questions asked, I didnt give a sh1t becasue I was steaming and I wanted to chace my days losses. I ended up ringing Paddy Power Poker three times and getting approx 1200 euros put in my account in the space of an hour.......

Im trying to figure out who is at fault here, you made an agreement with ppp to limit your account to 100euro a week and then because you lost that you decided that you would try and break that agreement by chancing your arm. I can see why you are angry/frustrated alright as I work in a related industry and deal with people with these types of problems every night (people who lose money). I can almost gaurantee if you had of won with that tilt money that this post would not be here but that is another matter.

The way I see it is you are as much at fault here as ppp is, you wanted to break your agreement and so it was done. By requesting additional funds to be added to your account you were also asking for them to lift your 100euro limit.

SandyVN

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Im trying to figure out who is at fault here, you made an agreement with ppp to limit your account to 100euro a week and then because you lost that you decided that you would try and break that agreement by chancing your arm. I can see why you are angry/frustrated alright as I work in a related industry and deal with people with these types of problems every night (people who lose money). I can almost gaurantee if you had of won with that tilt money that this post would not be here but that is another matter.

The way I see it is you are as much at fault here as ppp is, you wanted to break your agreement and so it was done. By requesting additional funds to be added to your account you were also asking for them to lift your 100euro limit.

Id have to agree here. Say in 1 week or month or year you decided this wasn't a problem anymore. How are you suppose to take the limit off?? They don't know whether the hell your on tilt or not, its not their job to. PPP provide a service its up to you how you use it.

meandmy

I think you should reasess your chosen trade, it sounds to me you have a long way to go be for you could consider yourself a pro poker player .ill give you a clue , get a real Job that pays 36k and be happy.same money minus the tilt happy days;)

Hectorjelly

I dont want to get involved in the main issue, its quite complicated ethically. I certainly dont want to enter in a contract with a company in which I willingly give up freedom in the future for no gain, but I can see the advantages for some people. Also the way I structure by BR I tend to leave large sums on any site Im playing so depositing isnt really a issue.

What does issue me though is tilt. I switched from stts/mtts to cash games almost excusively last October. I had played cash games before to varying degrees of success before, but now I had been playing for a living for 3/4 of a year and had attained a degree of discipline that I hadnt before. I started at 50.1 on tribeca and quickly grew to beat the game, and beat it handsomely. I dont have the hh from that long ago so I dont know my true BB/100. I made about 7k the first month from cash games, but at least once or twice a week I would tilt off substantial amounts of money. I remember thinking I was losing at least 25% of the money i could be earning through tilt. The consequences of tilt in cash games are far far in excess of those in a tournament. If I get a bad beat in a tournament the last thing I want to do is start a new one, but in cash game the temptation is to rebuy constantly.

So for the first month or two I played 50 1 my struggle was to try and play tilt free. Around this time I moved to Poland. My life there was very different than here, in some ways harder; not speaking the language made it hard at first but that got easier. What was true was that my life was far far less stressfull. Everything was so cheap I never had to worry about money. I had no old friends to be concerned about, no exgirlfriends to cause problems. I had no family commitments or awkward social occasions to deal with.

At this stage I was absolutely destroying 50 1 (probably not something to boast about), and I tried a few times to move to 1 2. Everytime I did though I could never play my A game, and several times went on semi tilt. For some reason the increase in stakes made me play strangely (which it shouldnt, I had played far higher in the past), not at all like the extremely profitable manner in which I was used to. I was bluffing in bad spots and making poor calls. So I went back down to 50 1 for a week or two to lick my wounds.

Then when October came around I said **** this, Im going to play $1 $2. And so I did. I made about 13k in the first 3 weeks, but more importantly I felt like I was playing the best I could for 100% of the time. I was playing as perfectly as it was possible for me to play at the time. I probably misplayed about 2 or 3 hands in that whole period. (of probably 15k). I took the last week off.

In November and December I did well again at $1 $2 despite taking about 2 weeks off to travel, and an extended Christmas break. I was getting the bus home one day in December and I said screw this, im going home and Im going to break $2 $4. For about 4 days of solid play I basically broke even, which was the closest to a bad run ive had in about 6 months. The problem was exactly that which I encountered when moving to $1 $2; the stakes were making me play strangely. Also I was mentally adjusted to losing $400 pots, but not $600 ones. Im not sure what happened but I managed to get through that and have been now been playing $2 $4 solidly since then, and doing very well. My bb/100 is 12 which Im reasnably happy with (allthough it was almost twice that at $1 $2), but what im not happy with is that I have started to tilt again from time to time. Im probably about $2k down from tilt over the last few weeks, which is about $2k too much. Also I havent been playing as well as I could, Ive been playing well but making one or two mistakes a session which i find inexcusable. (allthough at least these are mostly bet sizing mistakes).

I think the main reason that ive started to tilt again is that Im back in Ireland. Its not that im not glad to be hear, its great to see my friends again, but this is a fundamentally stressfull place for me to be. So ive started to explore what i can do to deal with it. At first I thought it could be an issue with tiredness, but I dont think its really that. Some of my most successfull sessions have been played whilst I have been exhausted, and I tend to tilt when full of energy. Ive explored meditation and this is an avenue i will probably go down.

Its seems strange now, but last year when thinking about poker and how to get better I focused on the mechanics of the game, the maths, the cards reading and so on (naturally); but now what I feel I need to improve now to keep getting better is my own mental health, and empathy for my fellow players. I havent played a player online in months that I felt was even close to me in terms of skill/knowledge, but I play plenty who can keep their cool better than me. Also something that I have been trying to do more and more is get an idea of what type of mood a player is in at any one time. Its very easy to spot someone on tilt, but I want to be able to know what type of day they had. How they feel about themselves. How their wife is and so on. I think to truly know someone you need to love them, and I want to know as much as I can about my opponents because that will give me more information about how they are going to play their hand at any one paticular instance.

Since this has long ago gone far off the subject Id like to mention some other things that I have been thinking about recently. I was at the boards charity do a few months ago and there was a hand involving a player sitting beside me. He made a big bet on the flop and everyone folded. I thought he had KQ/KJ and asked him, he looked absolutely disgusted and said no, he had KQ. KJ! he exclaimed with disgust. This to me is certifially insane. They are basically the same hand. A hand has no absolute strength, its strength is relative to the other hands still involved, and since there is no hand between KQ/KJ they are basically the same,ie if there is a situation to play one then you should probably be playing both. His problem was that he had read a a set of rigid rules somewhere about preflop selection and stuck to it. But this is completely the wrong approach to take to poker (and probbaly most things). There are no hands in poker, no players or cards or rivers or turns or bad beats. All there is are decisions and situations. Thats all. If you want to play the best you can you chose the best decision you can given the situation. So if its a tournament with big blinds and there is one weak limper and you are on the button with 93o you limp because you figure to take down the pot at least 1/3. Your hand is immaterial. In a cash game you have AQ on the bb and the button raises. He is quite a good player and his range is quite wide, but he hasnt been getting too out of line. Of course AQ figures to be the best hand, but you fold here because this is going to be an unprofitable call, despite the fact that you probably have the best hand. (if he starts raising every button you are going to have to start to defend it).

I think I may of said enough at this stage

Hectorjelly

meandmy wrote:

I think you should reasess your chosen trade, it sounds to me you have a long way to go be for you could consider yourself a pro poker player .ill give you a clue , get a real Job that pays 36k and be happy.same money minus the tilt happy days;)

Ill give you a clue, go back into what ever hole you crawled into or learn to be less patronising, but more importantly less idiotic. Firstly he earns 36k net, so he would need to find a job where he chooes his own hours, has no boss, does something he loves and earns 60k a year. Also tilt is kind of fun

meandmy

good point .unfotunatly dough i cant help but be patronising to poker player who cry,

Hectorjelly

meandmy wrote:

good point .unfotunatly dough i cant help but be patronising to poker player who cry,

PPP said they would so something. They didnt do it. Sounds like a legitamate grievance to me.

meandmy

I guess your saying we should be able to trust the bookes...LOL

Hectorjelly

meandmy wrote:

I guess your saying we should be able to trust the bookes...LOL

When I got to a pub I trust that i will be served an acoholic beverage of a certain standard. I know that its bad for me and it could well one day ruin my life and my families lives, and I know that the publican knows that. But I still trust that he has cleaned his taps recently and I probably wont be sick the next day. Similarly I trust that paddy power sets their odds so that the only winners will be people with insider knowledge, and that they will ruin many families lives, and take a lot of money from people who can ill afford it. Yet I trust them (or should do) to act in a above board manner, I dont think they are going to short change me if I make a bet, and if they agree to limit my betting per week I trust them (or should do) to do so.

Vikings

Hectorjelly wrote:

PPP said they would so something. They didnt do it. Sounds like a legitamate grievance to me.

If you read the original post once more you will see that ppp did in fact limit his account to $100 a week, it was only once he phoned them and requested more funds put in his account that they did so. I work in the same business, different company, and when a customer limits his account a phone call can remove that limit. By requesting more money to be put in his account the OP was essentially asking for the limit to be removed.

DapperGent

IncredibleBulk wrote:

If you read the original post once more you will see that ppp did in fact limit his account to $100 a week, it was only once he phoned them and requested more funds put in his account that they did so. I work in the same business, different company, and when a customer limits his account a phone call can remove that limit. By requesting more money to be put in his account the OP was essentially asking for the limit to be removed.

As far as I know there's supposed to be a cooldown time associated i.e. you can ask for your deposit limits to be changed but it'll take a week or so to come into effect. Otherwise it's utterly pointless.

Hectorjelly

IncredibleBulk wrote:

If you read the original post once more you will see that ppp did in fact limit his account to $100 a week, it was only once he phoned them and requested more funds put in his account that they did so. I work in the same business, different company, and when a customer limits his account a phone call can remove that limit. By requesting more money to be put in his account the OP was essentially asking for the limit to be removed.

Yeah I see but I agree with Dapper that that seems kind of insane, but I dont really want to get into it as the whole thing is alien to me.

Vikings

While I agree a cooldown period is a very sensible idea and should be in operation, I can only speak from my experiences with my employer whereby there is no cooldown as such - just the time it takes for the accounts department to agree to the switch in limits, which will take at least a couple of hours.

Will be interesting to see if there is or was a cooldown period with ppp.

Iago

rob you need to get back into football mate, kicking lumps out of the lads on a tuesday and thursday is a far better way to get rid of your tilt than throwing your money away at the tables.

I think (as you've already pointed out) the problem is yours, but there is a question about the culpability of PPP. My opinion for what it's worth, if a limit is set then it should be hard coded on the system for a given period of time. i.e. if I have a $100 limit then it should remain in place for a minimum of 30 days, after which I have the option to either change/remove it. Once I've changed it that limit should remain in place for 30 days. There should be no option for me to call and remove this limit during that period.

Being addicted to anything isn't a problem until it starts affecting other areas of your life, once it does you need to take steps to rectify it, although this is often hard as you can't see these problems yourself. When someone tries to point it out to you, you think they are overreacting, or they don't "understand" the logic behind what you're doing. as a result you continue to spiral until you're completely eaten up by your addiction and no amount of help is going to get you out of that situation. I'm not saying that's the case here, I know you're a winning player for the most part, the problem with tilt is that it doesn't check to see if you're making a profit before it kicks in, so the months when you're already down will hit you harder.

Lastly, I don't think you should have posted the PM here, it may not have been what you wanted to hear but I would like to think that it was sent for the right reasons. A friend of mine dropped 10K in a week recently on horse racing, everytime doubling the next bet trying to catch up on "the sure thing" that failed in the race before. HE doesn't think he has a problem, he was just "unlucky" and after all he normally turns a tidy profit. Funny thing is, I only ever seem to hear that he's lost this, and lost that. PPP don't know anything about you, a lot of gambling addicts are very convincing with their stories of being well up, just going through a bad patch. The PM gave you an out, and while it may not be what you're looking for, I'm sure a lot of people have wished for a message and get out clause like that over the years.

DapperGent

Iago wrote:

Lastly, I don't think you should have posted the PM here, it may not have been what you wanted to hear but I would like to think that it was sent for the right reasons.

I think it was fair enough. The PM completely ignored the issue he brought up i.e. his ability to easily circumvent the deposit limts he set himself and the hypocrasy of talking up being a responsible bookie while theoretically infinite desposits are possible against the customers own wishes. Wishes stated at a time of less fragility.

That is not to say that I don't think RMcG has a problem, I do and I think that if he couldn't tilt on PPP he would find somewhere else to do it. I also think that it's unlikely that he will be able to sustain being a pro player when he has such an utterly savage and clearly uncontrollable leak. I do hope I'm wrong.

Having said all that such a wilfully obtuse and patronising PM would have fúcking infuriated me. Well intended or not. He doesn't want to given the number of the samaritans nor does he want his account frozen he just wants to not be able to put a significant amount of money into it. The fact that he is able to easily lodge large amounts of money is a huge and glaring failure of PPP customer service and should be addressed as such.

FastMachine

2 years a pro and you're still tilting off cash like this? I'm surprised your profits are only down 20% if tilt affects you this bad. You need to take a break, have a good think about your game and say to yourself:

1. I'm too good a player to be doing this
2. This is costing me a fortune in the long run
3. I will not get emotional about the game
4. The money lost through tilt is more than the money lost in the hand that caused the tilt, I've turned a winning sesssion into a loosing one.
5. The money lost through a bad beat doesn't matter as I am playing for the long term.

I have a list of phrases and leaks wrote out and add to them every time I come across another weakness, all with the aim of playing error free and without emotion like a machine, hence my username.
And I wouldn't be blaming PPP for your problem. It's this kind of attitude that could lead to trouble for online poker/gambling and where would we be then? Having to work a normal job and crap hours for way less pay. Accept responisbility for your actions and stop whinging about the bookies.

califano

While were on the subject of responsible gambling.
I think Paddy Power could improve on this initiative if they unlinked their poker cashier from their sportsbook cashier.
I have done my whole poker bankroll so many times becasue the two accounts are linked which is the main reason im down playing online poker in my first year playing. On occasion whatever i accrued playing poker was lost in the sportsbook because whatever money you have sitting in your poker account is accessable to use in your sportsbook account and vice versa.
I contacted a pp rep who i trust just a few days ago in relation to unlinking both accounts and was told they are planning to split the 2 later in the year so fair play i guess but i believe clients who have a pp sportsbook should have the option to do this instantly if they wish and from the day they open a real money account.
Hopefully they will get onto this im sure they will.

latenia

My two cents:

Yes PP did drop the ball by allowing you to deposit so much, but no, there's nothing sinister about it. How much of the money you lost did they actually get? It's far more in their interest to have a solid full time player consistently recycling weaker players' money through rake than to have that person go bust and decide to quit.

PPP-Pit Boss

Paddy Power Poker take this matter very seriously indeed. We have launched an immediate investigation into this matter and you can be assured that we will investigate it thoroughly and with due diligence. I will be contacting this customer directly regarding his grievances.

Samba

I wrote this some time ago I tried to have a go at breaking down tilt, may or may not be of help to some.

http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/ps_badbeats.php


I am unbiased and impartial here.


PPP do take responsible gambling very seriously,
I would whole heartidly defend PPP's stance on this issue as they do encourage responsible gambling

DubTony

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think to truly know someone you need to love them, and I want to know as much as I can about my opponents because that will give me more information about how they are going to play their hand at any one paticular instance.

Well, if we ever needed evidence that HJ is indeed a shark, there it is.
"Hey man, how's it going? How's the family? Not good? Mother-in-law died? Business is gone bust? Oh dear. Well come on over here and we can talk about it while you let me have the rest of your money"

kincsem

Samba wrote:

PPP do take responsible gambling very seriously,
I would whole heartidly defend PPP's stance on this issue as they do encourage responsible gambling

I don't want to trivialise the subject but there is a conflict of interest here.

Bookmakers do encourage gambling.

Putting the word "responsible" in the sentence is about all they do. It's a PR job. I have never been asked can I afford to bet.

They would not like publicity about people ruined by gambling. Legislation might follow. So they put out ads where people cheer home winners. Betting is portrayed as a social experience.

califano

I thought Hectorjelly's thoughts and comments were very interesting. I enjoyed reading them.