Should we suppress the Irish language.. ?

Earthhorse

javaboy wrote: »

I know it's a bloody disgrace. Time for this Gaeilge dictatorship to end! Democracy ftw!

Chucky Our Law.

And other Prodigy songs.

javaboy wrote: »

In fairness it wouldn't take sweeping changes really. A lot of primary schools run concurrent Maths class for either stronger or weaker students. I know mine did. It wouldn't be a great stretch to have concurrent language classes where the languages happen to be different.

Mine did too for a bit but I didn't think it worked very well.

Rob_l

We should suppress all language and poke out peoples eyes, how dare we try and communicate with others!

Slutmonkey57b

JaysusMacfeck wrote: »

NOT FOR THE GAEILGE FORUM. I want unbiased answers.

The majority of us just speak English. Irish is an inferior language (which has been drilled into us by British occupation in Ireland for many a year)

Yep, all the fault of the Brits, the structure of the language and its pathetically limited vocabulary has nothing to do with it.

Seeing as the majority of us don't speak Irish (and most of us hate it because of the way it's taught)

Another repetitive bullsh!it excuse. The teaching of Irish is no worse than the teaching standard or structure of any other subject in Irish schools.

Yeah, Irish was the main language in Ireland not too long ago, but the famine (British genocide) fixed that.

A genocide is a planned event. Did the British spend years carefully importing the potato blight or something? Irish people were some of the worst offenders in terms of starving the local peasantry and profiting from food exporting.

Yes, the government have made a balls of things with our language particularly with the education system and the curriculum; those that have sat the Leaving Cert will know how bad the Irish curriculum is.. Boring, Ancient, Prehistoric, well out of date? Did I mention ‘horrendously boring’?

Clearly not the fault of the language! After all, there's so many interesting people speaking Irish, with so many interesting things to say, said in such a florid and beautiful manner.

Those of you that have studied Irish and have developed respect for it will understand that it is the most poetic and beautiful language to be in existence today.

An opinion, and one that has very little empiric support. Such a poetic and beautiful language shouldn't have such a difficult time coining new terms.

After school, you began to travel around the world discovering different cultures and languages.. but hold on, you're continuously mistaken as an American or British citizen? American aint so bad, but to be mistaken as a British citizen is a bit of a kick in the nuts for a lot of us. It's also a kick in the heart when the majority of foreigners think that Ireland is apart of the UK.. It's a damn shame that, isn't it?

Got a Chip on ma Shoulder, would you brush it off for me?

Personally, given the choice between being associated with a land that features probably the greatest proportion of literary, musical, philosophical, scientific, legal, humanitarian, and inventive minds in the world, and being associated with a land of whinging, begrudging, GAA fans, I think I'd be happy to be on the side of Stephen Fry.

I’ve since educated and chastised many a Spanish/Italian/French

I have visions of nervous looking tourists pinned against a wall by a big pink guinness drinking man in a button down shirt being showered in flecks of spittle from his lips while he rants about something that happened 200 years ago, desperately hoping for rescue from somewhere.

The Scottish however include Irish history in their curriculum, you’d have a very different conversation with them.

Believe it or not, some people have better things to talk about that 800 YEARS!!! ad ****ing nauseum.

OK-Cancel-Apply

Let's just let the damn language die ffs. We speak English now, lets get over it. We can talk to the rest of the world! We should be concentrating on other languages if we want to learn a second. I started learning Mandarin about 5 years ago, and found it to be a wonderful language, and easier than I thought. I have a feeling the the 21st century is going to be China's century too so...

Lockstep

UNESCo claims that 10 languages die out each year. I think this a is a very bad thing.

Languages offer insights into whole ways of life, little turns of phrases, mannerisms etc. I don't see why we should allow a language to die just because we have a more dominant language in the country. It's part of our identity. Yes, we can speak English and communicate with the world. So why let Irish die? Why concentrate on other languages?


I'll quote Ani Rauhihi, a Maori teacher in New Zealand's North Island:
"If you grow up not speaking your language, you won't know who you are"

kickoutthejams

kickoutthejams wrote: »

UNESCo claims that 10 languages die out each year. I think this a is a very bad thing.

If the loss of languages continues at these rates, you may find that in 100 years or so, languages like Dutch or Islandic may be considered at risk of dying out.

If everyone was to adopt the attitude of using their mother tongue (or relearning it!) in their home country to communicate with their family, friends & neighbours etc and use an international language (English, French or Cantonese for example) to speak the foreigners, then Irish can survive.

It would also mean that the vast majority will be bi-lingual

Lockstep

I like Irish. I learned it in Belgium of all places (god bless their byzantine school system) and nothing made me more aware of how cool it was than when so few people understood it. It was always a great day when someone came who spoke Irish and you'd have a great old time having a chat in it. That said, my written Irish would be appalling.


Whenever I'm heading down to the barracks, myself and my friends usually speak Irish. We've been stopped a lot by people saying how great it is to see guys in uniform conversing in it and all that jazz. Most people I know are proud to speak Irish and the ones who don't are going around booking into classes and stuff to try and learn.

They view it as an integral part of their identity.

book smarts

Irish teachers were always psychotic bullies who hated England for no valid modern reason and used to fly into crazy rages when their students got it wrong. The language was always used as a political tool anyway to define an imaginary national identity whose only purpose was to give power to those who defined that identity. Many people in this country were happy to consider themselves British for many years, and indeed many volunteered to fight and died for Britain. The modern version is a bastardised form promoted by jingoistic idiots who can't see through the meaningless abstraction that is national identity, and they sit smugly on their high horse thinking they are superior. The language should be killed off, once and for all, just to annoy them.

Ace7

book smarts wrote: »

Irish teachers were always psychotic bullies who hated England for no valid modern reason and used to fly into crazy rages when their students got it wrong. The language was always used as a political tool anyway to define an imaginary national identity whose only purpose was to give power to those who defined that identity. Many people in this country were happy to consider themselves British for many years, and indeed many volunteered to fight and died for Britain. The modern version is a bastardised form promoted by jingoistic idiots who can't see through the meaningless abstraction that is national identity, and they sit smugly on their high horse thinking they are superior. The language should be killed off, once and for all, just to annoy them.

I'm sure you aren't alone in feeling the way you do.

I posted this on another thread:

"I was reading somewhere recently about the Isle of Man where the celtic/gaelic Manx language wasn't just struggling...it had been dead for about 30 years.

The last native speaker had passed away in the early 70's. But before he did, someone had the foresight to make some tape recordings of him which exist today as a reference.

Today, Manx is undergoing a revival. Now they even have schools there that are teaching everything, the entire curriculum, in Manx."

What do you think of the language revival in Wales and the Isle of Man? When some people are asked this, they often say "I'm not qualified to answer. I don't know if enough about their situation'.

But the reason I ask is because, as an outside observer, you maybe have no axe to grind as you do with Ireland.

Would you say the the people in Wales or the Isle of Man are perhaps misguided or, at worse, idiots because the language isn't really useful and its a waste of taxpayer money?

I lived in Wales for one year and found that most Welsh people were proud to be Welsh and were happy to speak welsh as it gave them their identity, i.e. not English!

Don't know about the IOM, but have seen a Tv Programme about it, The language originally died out because the last few speakers were unwilling to pass it on to their children as they saw it as a waste of time, similar to the way Irish died in all but the remote Gaeltachta. With a new start and people willing to rediscover their heritage including language.
Whether these children currently learning it continue supporting and pass it on to their children is another issue.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I think in some ways Ireland 'missed the boat' in regards to learning, or even forcing people to learn Irish.

Take Israel for example.

Until 1948 Hebrew was an almost extinct language as Jew's had been scattered to the four corners of the earth.

When it got it independance the Knesset (Israeli parliment) made it illegal to advertise, or post road signs in any other language but Hebrew and the returning Diaspora had no choice but to learn their old language.

I think we should have followed Israel's example.

javaboy

Mairt wrote: »

When it got it independance the Knesset (Israeli parliment) made it illegal to advertise, or post road signs in any other language but Hebrew and the returning Diaspora had no choice but to learn their old language.

I think we should have followed Israel's example.

Are you serious or joking? If people were forced to learn Irish to return after emigrating to the USA or England, they probably wouldn't come home.

It's bad enough that so many students end up resenting being forced to learn the language in school but to force people to use it in their everyday lives would be a disaster imo.

deecom

I think to even discuss this is daft! Living abroad many people find it hard to believe that the Irish do not do more to speak our national language. It is a question i am asked here so many times, and even though I speak Irish, learned it in school, when i come home i find it very hard to understand that people are not interested in Irish. Its part of our national identity let not lose it or our past.

dlofnep

javaboy wrote: »

Are you serious or joking? If people were forced to learn Irish to return after emigrating to the USA or England, they probably wouldn't come home.

It's bad enough that so many students end up resenting being forced to learn the language in school but to force people to use it in their everyday lives would be a disaster imo.

Same way as we are forced to learn English? Make English optional for the leaving so we have more time for Irish.

Down with Shakespeare! Up with Peig Sayers!

ewj1978

yes. simple.

phasers

I used to love Irish, then last year I got this lemon of a teacher that's put me off the language forever. Considering my leaving cert is next June, this is probably a bad thing. Make it optional I say, then we can sack allt he rubbish teachers and keep the ones that actually care to help genuinely interested students.

javaboy

dlofnep wrote: »

Same way as we are forced to learn English? Make English optional for the leaving so we have more time for Irish.

Down with Shakespeare! Up with Peig Sayers!

Look at my comments in context. I was talking about forcing Irish people returning from abroad to learn a language they don't know in order to go about their lives.

As for making English optional. Go for it. I don't want to take this thread too far off-topic but English in school (seconday school anyway) has very little to do with the use of language. People leave school not knowing when to use commas and apostrophes but can draw parallels between Eavan Boland's depiction of a blackbird in flight and the social impact of the Russian revolution. A load of cock imo. Higher English such as poetry should be treated as art and made optional like other art subjects.

/end rant

In fact make all subjects optional at secondary school level.

Corega

Ace7 wrote: »

Why did you choose Latin? Do you use it a lot today?

If I lived in Ireland, I can't imagine how Latin would be more important or more useful than Irish.

Latin gives you a much better grasp over the main European languages (English, Italian, Spanish, French) making them easier to study and translate. Irish on the other hand doesn't benefit from having the same advantage.

If I'm being honest though the main reason for taking Latin at the time was learning about the history of Rome, which it has to be said is a lot more enthralling than Irish history.

ExoduS 18.11

Getting rid of irish would be getting rid of one of the only things we still clench to , to actually call us irish. The Irish curriculum needs to go under a serious break down and re-construction as regards how its thought from an early age. I would much prefer to be able to speak irish fluently than french? why wouldnt i? Its ludicrous to completely banish it altogether. Not a very proud way to promote your culture and country by banishing probably the most recognisable trait a country can have. Its language! A new positive attitude needs to be put in place in schools about learning irish.

siobhan.murphy

I think when you are an adult you realise how important our native language is,I have my two children in a gaelscoil and it great to hear them chatting away in Irish and funny enough if you make a small effort it does seem to come back to you.
Now saying that I went to the Christmas concert in the school and hadnt a clue of the drama the 5th&6 classes where preforming!:eek:
I decided to enrol in the winter intermediate night classes last year,only to get a call the week before to say that there was only one other person interested,a real shame:(

ExoduS 18.11

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

A genocide is a planned event. Did the British spend years carefully importing the potato blight or something?

"I mean, its not their fault a few thousand of our ancestors died while being oppressed by a foreign country..."
The rod's out, but nothings biting on that statement anyways.

Personally, given the choice between being associated with a land that features probably the greatest proportion of literary, musical, philosophical, scientific, legal, humanitarian, and inventive minds in the world, and being associated with a land of whinging, begrudging, GAA fans, I think I'd be happy to be on the side of Stephen Fry.

So... when you moving then..?

dlofnep

siobhan.murphy wrote: »

I think when you are an adult you realise how important our native language is,I have my two children in a gaelscoil and it great to hear them chatting away in Irish and funny enough if you make a small effort it does seem to come back to you.
Now saying that I went to the Christmas concert in the school and hadnt a clue of the drama the 5th&6 classes where preforming!:eek:
I decided to enrol in the winter intermediate night classes last year,only to get a call the week before to say that there was only one other person interested,a real shame:(

Fair play to ya Siobhan!

ExoduS 18.11

siobhan.murphy wrote: »

I think when you are an adult you realise how important our native language is,I have my two children in a gaelscoil and it great to hear them chatting away in Irish and funny enough if you make a small effort it does seem to come back to you.

This is a great idea, two of my cousins in galway also were enrolled in a gaelscoil and the parents swear by it! Both are having no problems coping with it, and love it there ! They can speak more irish than me now, and i'm finished school!

ewj1978

tried to get my two into a gaelscoil and was told

"family of present cildren first, then its a lottery..i.e who you know"

dlofnep

Tell em Peig Sayers is your great-great grandmother.

javaboy

dlofnep wrote: »

Tell em Peig Sayers is your great-great grandmother.

It's a trap. Everyone who actually read it knows none of her 27 kids survived past the age of 5.

Slutmonkey57b

ExoduS 18.11 wrote: »

"I mean, its not their fault a few thousand of our ancestors died while being oppressed by a foreign country..."

As I pointed out, and as Credit union records in Galway so eloquantly proved, native Irish Catholic landowners starved and killed the peasant classes just like the absentee landlords did. There was absolutely nothing preventing rich Irish people from alleviating the starvation of the peasants by distributing the food they were exporting. They chose not to. Yet, in typical head in the sand hypocritical Irish fashion, this is ignored because it undermines the "Evil Brits" stereotype.

The British Government of the time did not institute or create a famine. What they did was prevent the starving masses from storming the boats that were taking the food out of the country (where the landowners were profiting). Policy at the time was "laissez faire".

The rod's out, but nothings biting on that statement anyways.

Stating inconvenient facts isn't trolling.

Slutmonkey57b

ExoduS 18.11 wrote: »

Getting rid of irish would be getting rid of one of the only things we still clench to , to actually call us irish. The Irish curriculum needs to go under a serious break down and re-construction as regards how its thought from an early age. I would much prefer to be able to speak irish fluently than french? why wouldnt i? Its ludicrous to completely banish it altogether. Not a very proud way to promote your culture and country by banishing probably the most recognisable trait a country can have. Its language! A new positive attitude needs to be put in place in schools about learning irish.

As you're apparently having great difficulty with English I suggest that the curriculum is not to blame for your inability to speak Irish.

FX Meister

I agree

Earthhorse

javaboy wrote: »

In fact make all subjects optional at secondary school level.

Let's make everything optional ever.

Hey, if you didn't like this post you shouldn't have read it.