Kung Fu or Tai Chi. Classes on the Northside

Michael O Leary

john kavanagh wrote:

ok

i wouldn't call this 'bickering' - just 2 people talking about martial arts:)

"we have more in common regarding martial arts than each of us realise at this time."

i very much doubt that....but thats ok too! we're allowed to have different opinions round here:)

I have sent you on some of the details regarding the fight with the Thai-Boxer and will forward some of my other thoughts over the next day or two. Regarding any common ground we might have (as opposed to a lot of other martial arts) maybe it would make an interesting thread at another date.

By the way thanks for the good wishes regarding my exam on Wednesday.

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Michael O Leary

john kavanagh wrote:

yes i've seen that video too and i agree with you michael! the thing is though from that video you can clearly see rickson has enough stand-up to get him to the range he wants - the clinch. once there he is skilled enough to get a takedown and then when it hits the ground, well its rickson gracie so enough said!

but in the other video i fail to see any skill/ability in any range - scrappy stand-up (which is the range they claim excellence? it would be like seeing rickson struggle on the ground). emin does get a nice takedown but its against a fairly old man who has NO CLUE about the clinch range and then again on the ground there's no technique displayed by either of them - unless you count the 'schoolyard headlock' emin uses

Hi John,

Just some of my thoughts on the video clip. I am not trying to nit pick but I just think it important to have at least one or two points clear.

In post number 76 you said that Emin Bostepe the Wing Tsun guy jumped an "old man" at a seminar. And then in post 87 you described him as "fairly old". Now I know that this is open to opinion but William Cheung was 45 at the time and as I am 34 I would not like to think that I am 11 years away from being fairly old.:) William Cheung as far as I can recall was at the time describing himself as the worlds best streetfighter, had about 30 years of experience of Wing Chun, was apparently described by Bruce Lee as the untimate fighter and 2 years previously in 1984 "apparently" set a new world record for punching 8.3 times in a second. It could be argued that he was in his prime.

Emin Bostepe was by contrast at the age of about 22ish a kid. He was also physically lighter and about the same build. So if there was a disadvantage it would have been on Emin's side. Emin is now about 42ish, roughly the same age as William Cheung in 1986 and could be considered to be in his prime. He does regular seminars in Ireland if anyone wants to check him out but its nothing to do with me as I am not in his organisation.

It was also stated that the fight looked scrappy and I compared it to the scrappy fight with Rickson Gracie and Hugo Duarte. A valid point was made by you that while you agreed with the quality of Rickson's stand up that he had enough stand up to get to the range he wanted. It could also be argued that Bostepe had enough ability on the ground to land his strikes against Cheung before he was pulled off.

You also stated that you failed to see any skill/ability in any range. However I could not see skill in Rickson Gracies ground work and the reason for that is I don't know what to look out for. I can see the "elbow force" at work between the Bostepe and Cheung. However because the two of them are Wing Tsun/Chun guys it looks like a stalemate. It is like watching two grapplers on the ground fighting for a long period. The casual observer cannot see the battle of energies and micromovements passing between them.

Anyway these are just a few of my ramblings.:) I am looking forward to seeing you soon and learning a little about your methods.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

john kavanagh

i used the term 'old man' because i read it somewhere on a forum - i didn't know what age he was.....but the main thing is it doesn't matter, my points still stand.

"It was also stated that the fight looked scrappy and I compared it to the scrappy fight with Rickson Gracie and Hugo Duarte. A valid point was made by you that while you agreed with the quality of Rickson's stand up that he had enough stand up to get to the range he wanted. It could also be argued that Bostepe had enough ability on the ground to land his strikes against Cheung before he was pulled off."

yes that's true that 'Bostepe had enough ability on the ground to land his strikes against Cheung' however as Cheung had no idea what do in the Clinch or Ground ranges it really shouldn't be that difficult (kinda like UFC 1) - as compared to trying to control somone like Hugo Duarte, a well conditioned fighter with real skill in every range.

"I can see the "elbow force" at work between the Bostepe and Cheung. However because the two of them are Wing Tsun/Chun guys it looks like a stalemate"

what is 'elbow work'? all i can see is 1 or 2 strikes quickly followed by clinch to takedown, then Cheung trying to perform the school yard headlock while Emin lands a couple of shots?

"I am looking forward to seeing you soon and learning a little about your methods."

yes me too!