Dublin Bus on strike today (9/12/2005)

murphaph

parsi wrote:

As an aside the railways in most countries were an industry where sons followed their fathers. So was mining. So was factory working. So was carting. So was navvying. Do you get the drift - these were all low-paid jobs, with low entry qualifications and available to people who completed the then standard education.

But today the same basically educated bloke (or burd, but you rarely see them riving trains!) can earn up to 48k pressing a few buttons to make one of the safest trains (DART) in Europe stop and go, and then have the cheek to even talk about strike action for driving said trains with (shock horror :eek:) 2 extra carraiges hooked up! Compare that with modern day factory work (still low paid), mining (gone for the most part because the chinese and poles can mine it a lot cheaper), navvying could be compared to modern day roadbuilding contractors' labourers who work their fcukin b0llixes off in all manner of weather for a decent enough wage. The only job that's gotten easier but which has seen an appreciable increase in wages (ignoring inflation) is train driving which used t be hard work (in the days of steam).

shltter

murphaph wrote:

What pandamania says is for the most part, quite true and we all know it lads-the unions only have sway amongst the public sector employees in the main and they are determined to cling on to that last vestige of power. The problem is that they have nothing to discourage them from calling strike action as their members' jobs are pretty much secure. Compare the number of strikes in the private sector to the public sector. It's not because we in the private sector are so well paid and looked after by our benevolent employers that we don't feel the urge to down tools sometimes and strike for better cnditions but we can't guys because our employers will close up shop and set up elsewhere. Is this 'right'? Of course not, everyone should be able to strike when they really need to, but we in the private sector who pretty much can't strike regularly see publc sector employees with pretty much guaranteed jobs (or at least jobs that would see large redundancy payments being made) striking for guranteed pay rises, regardless of employee performance. This money comes from private sector PAYE and income tax lads, not from public sector PAYE which is just going back to the exchequer where it came from. I know that not every public servant is earning a fortune, but it should be known that there are plenty of private sector employees earning a pittance too and they are paying the wages of the guy with the guaranteed job.

As for the bus conductors' helping themselves-it did happen. I remember often getting tickets that didn't match what you'd paid for but you didn't care because you weren't going to get any hassle from the conductor over a ticket he sold you. You could count the number of time you saw an inspector ina year on 1 hand. Remember too that those ticket machines often worked so poorly that there was no visible print, maybe just the CIE 'wheel' and nothing else, so the conductor could easily issue smaller fare tickets and you wouldn't even know. He could then pocket the 'profit'. Anyone who claims this NEVER EVER happened is clearly pretty naive. Indeed, until quite recently the CIE staff at Connolly/Tara/Pearse would take cash at the gates for single fares for pasengers arriving in from unmanned outer stations like Ashtown. They gave you NO TICKET or ANY RECEIPT. That money could just go 'i do phoca'. Then there was that ticket checker who was sacked in Cork over 'irregularities' (read what you want into that, I know what I think he was up to) and the unions went bananas and got him reinstated. Since that incident the ticket checkers in the Dublin city centre tations have been issuing receipts from TRIPLICATE books, even for single fares so clearly IE management were not happy with the previous system (I wonder why :rolleyes:).

Social partnership doesn't just p!ss the private sector off, I know two lads in the ESB who were subject to it and they hated it because they were young lads (mid 20's) who worked hard and got paid less than the 'oul lads' who sat around drinkin tea all day.

As fascinating as your views are can I ask WTF has this to do with anything

So you believe that workers should be allowed to strike when needed and you are resentful because you believe that workers in the public sector are able to use that right and you in the private are not. How is that the fault of public sector workers.

I work for a semi state company and Taxpayers are not paying my wages at all nevermind as some act of benevolence A subvention is paid to the company I work for for providing services that the State deem essential. Whether it was privately or publicly owned the state would still have to pay for these services and the evidence from the UK is that under privatisation they would pay a lot more. Unless you are under some illusion that a private company is going to carry pensioners and social welfare recipients for free and operate services that are incapable of paying their way but because they pass through the Taoiseachs constituency have to be kept running in some form for example
http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=51a.

So you deem public sector workers PAYE payments as less valid becuase the money originated from the state the logic of this could be applied to the various construction companies or indeed any private company that have contracts with the state the money they use to pay their workers comes from the state. It is purile nonesense to suggest that public sector PAYE payments are any less valid than private sector

As for conductors yes it did happen 20 years ago it was not as widespread as Panda would have you believe and anyone caught stealing was sacked. However stealing from an employer was and is not the preserve of the semi state worker. I was recently speaking to a a guy who worked for a large multinational Chocolate company and he boasted of the ammount of merchandise he had stolen from his employer over his long career.

And social patnership pisses off the majority of Dublin Bus drivers who are members of a union that is not a member of ICTU our union has no hand act or part in negotiating any partnership deal nor do we have any vote as to whether it is accepted or rejected yet we are bound by the terms of it.

shltter

murphaph wrote:

But today the same basically educated bloke (or burd, but you rarely see them riving trains!) can earn up to 48k pressing a few buttons to make one of the safest trains (DART) in Europe stop and go, and then have the cheek to even talk about strike action for driving said trains with (shock horror :eek:) 2 extra carraiges hooked up! Compare that with modern day factory work (still low paid), mining (gone for the most part because the chinese and poles can mine it a lot cheaper), navvying could be compared to modern day roadbuilding contractors' labourers who work their fcukin b0llixes off in all manner of weather for a decent enough wage. The only job that's gotten easier but which has seen an appreciable increase in wages (ignoring inflation) is train driving which used t be hard work (in the days of steam).

And again fascinating but WTF do 30 or 40 dart train drivers have to do with anything they chanced their arm and they were told to **** off it happens everyday of the week in companies up and down the country.

Unless you have some information that all dart train drivers are the sons and daughters of former train drivers which I doubt.


Your problem is that you have fallen into the trap of divide and conquer the right wing media and their co horts in FF and the PDs are all the time trying to ferment division between workers.
What happened last friday was that workers from all over Ireland public sector and private stood up for a group of workers(private sector workers) who are being treated very badly by their employer. The vast majority of those on the march have nothing personally to gain or lose if Irish Feriies workers win or lose they gave up their money and time to help other workers end of story.
If the same thing was happening to you tomorrow I would give up a half days pay and march again it is about what is right and wrong not about what is in it for me.

murphaph

shltter wrote:

As fascinating as your views are can I ask WTF has this to do with anything

First off, calm down a touch, you're clearly taking this too personally. My post is relevant in the terms of this thread, that's what it has to do with 'anything'.

shltter wrote:

So you believe that workers should be allowed to strike when needed and you are resentful because you believe that workers in the public sector are able to use that right and you in the private are not. How is that the fault of public sector workers.

Ok, you've already started putting words in my mouth. I am not resentful, I am pointing out to you why private sector workers may feel the way panda is alluding to. I at no time blamed the public-sector worker in my above posts, please reread them as I clearly blamed the unions and government for 'partnership' which benefits nobody but a minority of workers in the form of the public sector. These jobs are paid for through the private sector ultimately, either from business taxes or (mostly in this country) PAYE.

shltter wrote:

I work for a semi state company and Taxpayers are not paying my wages at all nevermind as some act of benevolence A subvention is paid to the company I work for for providing services that the State deem essential. Whether it was privately or publicly owned the state would still have to pay for these services and the evidence from the UK is that under privatisation they would pay a lot more. Unless you are under some illusion that a private company is going to carry pensioners and social welfare recipients for free and operate services that are incapable of paying their way but because they pass through the Taoiseachs constituency have to be kept running in some form for example

Ok, so a subvention is paid to your employer by the government. This money comes from the private sector workers' and employers' tax contributions, there is no getting around that and I totally agree with government subsidies for essential services-that's the nature of social democracy, a political system I truly believe in. I am not advocating the privatisation of CIE or anything like that.

shltter wrote:

So you deem public sector workers PAYE payments as less valid becuase the money originated from the state the logic of this could be applied to the various construction companies or indeed any private company that have contracts with the state the money they use to pay their workers comes from the state. It is purile nonesense to suggest that public sector PAYE payments are any less valid than private sector

This is untrue and is easy to show. If the public sector grew larger you would quickly see why the PAYE contributions made by that sector are not as important (as a group, not individully so don't take this personally) as tax revenues raised from the private sector employers and employees. You'd reach a point where the government was unable to pay it's various departments' wages, nevermind build capital infrastructure. One look north of the border shows you what a fat bloated public service means (it requires a massive subsidy from Britain, £3.5bn annually, ie private sector industry like banking in the city of London is paying for a public service in NI). So the public service should be as small as possible, especially when your country doesn't have the luxury of 40% corporation tax rates and sources most of it's exchequer funding for public service from private sector PAYE contributions. You must not think for a moment that I am equating someone's PAYE contribution as 'less valid' on a personal level, that's clearly not true-if someone (and there are plenty) works hard in the public service and so on then I view them as just as important as the hardworking guy in the private sector, they are obvioulsy performing a job that is essential for the running of the country or whatever, but at the end of the day-their wages come from the private sector tax-take.

shltter wrote:

As for conductors yes it did happen 20 years ago it was not as widespread as Panda would have you believe and anyone caught stealing was sacked.

I refer you to the recent 'mutiny' in Cork when management tried to remove people accused of 'ticket checking irregularites'.

shltter wrote:

However stealing from an employer was and is not the preserve of the semi state worker. I was recently speaking to a a guy who worked for a large multinational Chocolate company and he boasted of the ammount of merchandise he had stolen from his employer over his long career.

The difference is, the private company will eventually go bust or move to China if enough stuff is nicked, the public sector semi-state will just get a larger subvention, they will not close down.

shltter wrote:

And social patnership pisses off the majority of Dublin Bus drivers who are members of a union that is not a member of ICTU our union has no hand act or part in negotiating any partnership deal nor do we have any vote as to whether it is accepted or rejected yet we are bound by the terms of it.

So can I take it that you would like 'partnership' scrapped and each employee paid on merit and performance as is the norm in the private sector?

murphaph

shltter wrote:

And again fascinating but WTF do 30 or 40 dart train drivers have to do with anything they chanced their arm and they were told to **** off it happens everyday of the week in companies up and down the country.

They weren't told to fcuk off until it became clear that public opinion was completely against them and the IE management would have had the full backing of the board of CIE and government who in turn would have had the full backing of the general public to have a complete standoff with them over it. They didn't just chance their arms, they were fully prepared to countenance putting the c. 100k daily DART users through transport hell to get a few extra quid for doing nothing more.

shltter wrote:

Unless you have some information that all dart train drivers are the sons and daughters of former train drivers which I doubt.

We've moved on from that point and it's no longer related to the above.

shltter wrote:

Your problem is that you have fallen into the trap of divide and conquer the right wing media and their co horts in FF and the PDs are all the time trying to ferment division between workers.

I'm actually quite the socialist, but we have a twisted version of social justice in this country that heavily favours those in public service by virtually guaranteeing them a job for life while almost everyone in the private sector is one pay cheque away from poverty. That's the problem here, I don't believe for one moment that you think all workers have the same security of employment so your divide and conquer line is a nonsense-we are already clearly divided by the fact that the private sector worker has little security of employment compared to the public sector one. When was the last raft of public sector redundancies? If anything you tend to see governments 'hiding' unemployment by hiring in the public sector coming up to an election.

We need our public services, our bus drivers, our doctors our Gardai and so on, but we need them (and more particularly their union representatives and the government) to remember that it's the private sector that ultimately pays their wages because this country is built on the capitalist economic model, not the communist one.

gjim

Bullsh!t. The fare machines accounted for all the fares issued and the conductors had to tally that with their cash daily.

Do you know any (ex-)bus conductors? If you do, ask them about the fiddling that went on. It was infamous.

PandaMania, as you can see from many of the reactions here, the unions in this country are considered sacrosanct (like the church was up to 20 years ago). Like church supporters back then, union supporters are comprised of two distinct classes; the naive but well-meaning and the cynically self-interested.

There are many supporters of unions who genuinely believe that unions share their interest in social justice. There were similar supporters of the church years ago who just couldn't even conceive that the heirarchy might contain machiavelian self-interested b*astards. As you say, it's easy to forgive students and the like falling for a simplistic view of the world but most adults leave such naive beliefs behind (it's part of growing up - the same way you stop believing in Santa, the tooth fairy, horoscopes and the like).

The "social justice" angle is pure smoke screen. The real efforts in the trade union movement goes into engineering benchmarking (described as an "ATM" for union members by a particular union leader) and increasing their own power. The thin veneer of socialist rhetoric only barely hides the underlying Marxism with it's hatred of the lumpenproletariate (the "scangers from the flats" and the genuine working class - those working at the bottom of the "value" chain in insecure service work).

The current news shows that the posturing has nothing to do with social justice, the conditions of workers or anything else. It was a cynical attempt by one Golliath union SIPTU to increase it's power (and crush a smaller weaker union, SUI) by demanding it represent all the new workers on the ship. Of course the self-delusional will deny that this was SIPTU's motivation all along. There was an angry reaction to my suggestion earlier in the thread that maybe SIPTU was being disingenious, hypocritical, etc. In actual fact I was giving them too much credit; they were actually organising a power grab against a smaller weaker union and of course managed to motivate the naive and foolish into supporting them using a smoke screen of lies about their concern for various worthy goals.

Victor

PandaMania wrote:

Where were these wonderful men of workers solidarity when Fruit of the Loom sent 2,000 jobs from the Northwest to Pakistan

.... Morrocco.

PandaMania wrote:

The game is up lads - think back to what direction the people were running when the Berlin wall came down. Get with the programme please.

Both directions, the price of butter was fixed, as was the exchange rate, for a few weeks, there was a wonderful market.

parsi

murphaph wrote:

We need our public services, our bus drivers, our doctors our Gardai and so on, but we need them (and more particularly their union representatives and the government) to remember that it's the private sector that ultimately pays their wages because this country is built on the capitalist economic model, not the communist one.

We also need to bear in mind that a lot of businesses in this country do very well thank you out of the public sector. It always makes me laugh when IBEC call for reduced public spending - surely it would affect their own members if the Public Sector stopped buying PCs & servers, stopped getting in consultants, terminated maintenance contracts, reduced security contracts, stopped building roads, stopped feeding people in hospitals, reduce spending on medical supplies etc etc.

PandaMania

The thin veneer of socialist rhetoric only barely hides the underlying Marxism with it's hatred of the lumpenproletariate (the "scangers from the flats" and the genuine working class - those working at the bottom of the "value" chain in insecure service work).

Yes indeed. I know one SIPTU rep who's father was a chairman of a local Hunt. He grew up in a country manor house in a world of horses, stables and paddocks. He drives a 4x4 to SIPTU meetings and the whole family are wealthy property developers and auctioneers. I have no idea how this guy became a SIPTU rep, but he is very much part of the social and economic ellite and he was at the march on Friday with his bottom lip trembling on que for the cameras.

SIPTU do not represent the poor of this country and never have. At best they take care of lower Middle Classes and then work their way up.

You're analogy comparing the Trade Unions to the Catholic Church 20 years ago is excellent. Notice how I was declared insane simply for pointing out what most Irish people have seen with their own eyes and yes, the same people who marched supporting SPUC and the anti-divorce referdums were a mixed of fanantics and well meaning naive folk.

What we saw on Friday was a requim march for the trade union movement in Ireland as more and more people in this country especially since Brendan Ogle (which the union lads on this thread have yet to comment on) and the ILDA lunatics destroyed whole segments of Irish Rail's business and then this guy goes on to get a highly paid job at ESB and next thing you know there is "industrial unrest" and talk of "power cuts". To their credit many of the lads in ESB ignored Ogle and his Stalinistic "you're either with us or against us" diatribes. ESB are by far the most professionally run semi-state and notice how the whole union thing there is not a major factor. This is why Ogle was sent in there - to radicalise them, get them back in the fold in much the same way he cause absolute mayhem within Irish Rail with the blessing of the CIE Unions. It failed.

I see the Trade Union movement in this country in 10 years time being a tiny group representing mainly public sector workers as more of a social club than anything else. With the construction of the Dublin Metro and Luas, more private bus companies, the CIE unions will no longer be able to hold us all for randsom anymore.

One of the most digusting episodes in this history of trade union movement in this country was a series of CIE bus strikes in the early 1980's at a time when hundreds of thousands of real working class Dubliners had been recently transferred into the then wastelands of Tallaght, Blanchardstown and Mulhuddart. These people were socially and economically very vunerable (little more than refugees at the time) as these areas were vast housing tracts and nothing else. When the bus strike happened I can recall one morning at around 5AM seeing literally hundreds of men walking in the freezing rain down the old Tallaght Road into Terenure and on to their jobs in town. While the poor CIE opresed union workers from middle class Clontarf, Drumcondra and Phisborough (there familes could walk into town easy enough) picketed the bus depots screaming about their rights and how hard they had it. While the CIE Unions forced the men of Tallaght, Clondalkin and Mullhuddart to walk 8 miles into the city centre to try and keep their low paid jobs, which were not jobs for life in the semi-state unions. It was sickening beyond words. Within a few days the army came to the rescue and operated make shift public transport to West Dublin using lorries which were drven down from the border. In the early 1970's a similar CIE bus strike led many city centre businesses to close up and cos the lost of hundreds of jobs and a serious delcine in the life of Dublin City Centre. This is the history of the CIE unions. All for themselves, screw the rest of you - social justice is for them and them alone and yet they march on Friday telling us how wonderful they are.

and just like the collaspe of the church nobody dared to say anything anti-union in the early 70's and 1980's. But that would not happen today. If the strike from last friday happened again, they would see some serious hostility from the public very quickly. Personally I do hope that SIPTU call a General Strike as it would be the end for them.

What I found interesting about this thread is the mentality of the pro-union poeple. They are very much about the whole "dissenters will not be tolerated" thoughtcrime mindset. The comments about my mental health were right out of 1950's Russia and you do have to wonder if these people had the power would they be building Gulags in Donegal and sending people who disagree with their phoney socialism there to be reeducated. Instantly people are branded right wing PD and FF supporters. I am neither right wing, nor care much for these parties, but because some one (actually loads of people) dares to question the propaganda from vested interest such as SIPTU you get hit with all kinds of names. Tough **** lads, some of us have minds of our own and do not need to have the SWP Dalkey Soviet banging drums beside us. We are perfectly happy thinking for ourselves and making out own way in life. I also find it interesting how my humor on my posts, were totally missed by these social justice types. Like they are so far up there own backsides they cannot see how my comments about Christy Moore as being funny. They just assume I am mentally ill and ranting at the moon for no reason. Cannot see the ironic humor. Their reaction is so insightful into the way differ from how most Irish people I know see the world, and yet at the same time they claim to represent us and well as being our only hope like we are all a shower of hapless thickos who need SIPTU to save us. It is so incredibly patronising.

See lads, now you know why most Irish people these days are not mauling roasary beads or joining SIPTU - because these days most Irish people can think for themseves and form their own opinions and this is what terrifies the likes of SIPTU. Most Irish people (apart from Joe Duffy callers) have a self-belief in themselves now coupled with a strong sense of personal economic and social independence which only serve to undermine the rationale for the SPITU reps to get their private car allowences when driving around the country talking ****e thought their 1970's beards.

Metrobest

Here's my take on last Friday: a tiny minority of Irish citizens are trying to bully the majority population through an emotive and spurious day of protest. When you crunch the numbers, it's obvious that this is very small but militant group of individuals all of whom feel threatened by accountability, don't want to change their terms and conditions in the slightest (unless they get compensation for the trauma!); who don't understand the reality of the economic conditions that made the Celtic Tiger sprang to life, and, most importantly, who don't give a damn about the working conditions of Latvians or the rights of immigrants. All they care about is preserving their own uniquely-generous terms and conditions and copper-fastening their outdated concept of the "job for life" - things the majority of citizens have moved on from.

It is fair to estimate that of the 40,000 or so protesting in Dublin last week, a few thousand are CIE workers. Another few thousand are teachers. Many thousand more are assorted Shinners, Labourites and union heads. So far, so predictable. What's interesting is that when you remove from the equation those with vested interests you're left with a very small number of ordinary private-sector-employed members of the public who felt strongly enough to down keyboards for the day. This tells me that the trade union nettle is starting to wither, not prosper.

Where were the Luas drivers on Friday? Driving the trams of course.
Where were the Aer Lingus staff who've had to adjust to real life terms and conditions? Flying the planes. And where were the vast majority of Irish citizens employed in the private sector? Working, fuelling the economy, as they always do.

The Irish Ferries dispute is the last hurrah of a trade union movement that cannot be sustained. The notion of trade unions is of "worker versus employer" but this concept is no longer important for most people. Prosperity has meant that people are in control of their own career paths, wage rates are constantly rising and ever-more generous perks are being offered to retain productive employess. Witness Ivor Callelly's offer of a car.

Thanks goodness Ireland's economy is being driven by the private sector. Were the labour/union movement in charge, we'd be back to days of high taxes, high unemployment, zero immigration (there'd be no jobs) and a public sector tail wagging the economic dog. Thankfully the Tiger is powered by US investment, low taxes, a flexible labour market, and inward migration. Four things which, when you strip away the mask, are SIPTU's biggest threat.

shltter

Metrobest wrote:

Here's my take on last Friday: a tiny minority of Irish citizens are trying to bully the majority population through an emotive and spurious day of protest. When you crunch the numbers, it's obvious that this is very small but militant group of individuals all of whom feel threatened by accountability, don't want to change their terms and conditions in the slightest (unless they get compensation for the trauma!); who don't understand the reality of the economic conditions that made the Celtic Tiger sprang to life, and, most importantly, who don't give a damn about the working conditions of Latvians or the rights of immigrants. All they care about is preserving their own uniquely-generous terms and conditions and copper-fastening their outdated concept of the "job for life" - things the majority of citizens have moved on from.

It is fair to estimate that of the 40,000 or so protesting in Dublin last week, a few thousand are CIE workers. Another few thousand are teachers. Many thousand more are assorted Shinners, Labourites and union heads. So far, so predictable. What's interesting is that when you remove from the equation those with vested interests you're left with a very small number of ordinary private-sector-employed members of the public who felt strongly enough to down keyboards for the day. This tells me that the trade union nettle is starting to wither, not prosper.

Where were the Luas drivers on Friday? Driving the trams of course.
Where were the Aer Lingus staff who've had to adjust to real life terms and conditions? Flying the planes. And where were the vast majority of Irish citizens employed in the private sector? Working, fuelling the economy, as they always do.

The Irish Ferries dispute is the last hurrah of a trade union movement that cannot be sustained. The notion of trade unions is of "worker versus employer" but this concept is no longer important for most people. Prosperity has meant that people are in control of their own career paths, wage rates are constantly rising and ever-more generous perks are being offered to retain productive employess. Witness Ivor Callelly's offer of a car.

Thanks goodness Ireland's economy is being driven by the private sector. Were the labour/union movement in charge, we'd be back to days of high taxes, high unemployment, zero immigration (there'd be no jobs) and a public sector tail wagging the economic dog. Thankfully the Tiger is powered by US investment, low taxes, a flexible labour market, and inward migration. Four things which, when you strip away the mask, are SIPTU's biggest threat.

i have no interest in arguing with you the numbers of people at the march suffice to say it was at least double the 40,000 you estimate

Also I walked up O'Connell st on friday to join my colleagues on Parnell Square the march had already started and what struck me was that the people who were on the footpath watching and waiting for the march to pass were clapping and cheering, over an hour later when my union eventually made our way down O'Connell St due to the numbers attending people were still clapping.

You can try and convince yourself that it was unrepresentative or whatever makes you feel better but anyone who was on that march or in the area on Friday knows it was one of the best recieved marches I have seen in Dublin for a long long time.

On your other points the Aerlingus workers were there and well represented

on the LUAS drivers they were there However and this is one of the reasons I hate SIPTU SIPTU has an exclusive agreement with Connex to represent LUAS workers that was signed before Connex employed anyone in this country in return SIPTU signed a no industrial action agreement with Connex. The reason SiPTU did not pull off the LUAS was not because it operates in the real world it was because it was protecting its position as sole union in Connex.

So as regards SIPTU I hate them as well I would not join them and I know they would sell any worker or group of workers down the swanny for their beloved social partnership.

PandaMania

shltter wrote:

i have no interest in arguing with you .

Well of course not. This would be an afront to you fantasy victim complex of "fat cats" versus the noble and infallible unions.

shltter wrote:

suffice to say it was at least double the 40,000 you estimate

Did that include the Vico Road Anti-Globalisation Drum Circle? I heard that Killian (bongos) and Tarquin (bugie bells on stick) had a falling out as both of them were bidding for the same Peruvian Yak Herders Cap on eBay.

shltter wrote:

On your other points the Aerlingus workers were there and well represented

You mean the employees of a company whom a former union offical declared that RyanAir "would be a short lived experiment" and then ended up having to emulate RyanAir as AerLingus was on its last leg due to the archaic mentality of the company and its employees?

Did you know that UK rail privatisation was a huge success and in all polls of UK rail passengers said they would not want to go back to British Rail?

shltter wrote:

shltter wrote:

So as regards SIPTU I hate them as well I would not join them and I know they would sell any worker or group of workers down the swanny for their beloved social partnership.

You have to wonder how many of the spectaculary incompetent civil servants behind the P-PARS monumental waste were at the march on friday acting all opressed and victimised even though their job for life, lucrative pension and 100% performance bonus is waiting for them no matter what.

Christy Moore has a indoor swimming pool did you also know that? And isn't amazing how his record company were advertising the tits out of his his new "protest" album leading up to, during and weekend after his fanbase were marching down O'Connell Street demanding that Irish jobs be safeguarded, while half of them were wearing British Corporate soccer jerseys, but god forbid any of them support an Eircom League club. I guess they are highly selective in which irish industry they want to see protected from foreign fat cats. Irish Ferries Mangement are the enemy but oul sure Murdoch and Bramovich are sound blokes...

You union lads are such a comical lot. I would hate to see you dissapear as the amusment you provide those of us living on plaent Earth is priceless. It would be impossible for you to do this anyway as you all dissapeared up your own backsides a long time ago.

John R

gjim wrote:

Do you know any (ex-)bus conductors? If you do, ask them about the fiddling that went on. It was infamous.

Being infamous doesn't make it any more likely to be true than not. One of my uncles was a bus conductor in the 70s and he is without a doubt the most honest person I have ever known. This topic came up in conversation some years ago and he believed that there was not huge numbers of crooks in the job. There were a small number who were 100% bent and up to every trick they could think of including making sure they skived off while others did more than their fare share but that doesn't sound any different to every large company I have had dealings with.

shltter

PandaMania wrote:

Christy Moore has a indoor swimming pool did you also know that?

.

So what fair play to him I couldn't give a **** if he had a swimming pool in every room in the house hasn't he worked hard for his money and isn't he entitled to spend it any way he wants the same as the rest of us.

Honest to God I have rarely seen a poster with such a chip on his/her shoulder WTF has Christy Moore ever done to you this must be the 3rd or 4th time you have mentioned his swimming pool. Would he not let you play with your toys in it.

As for the rest of your post pure ****e as usual I'm afraid.

PandaMania

So the Irish Ferries circus was indeed SIPTU/Labour playing the race card to indulge their xenophobic membership. Who would have guessed it!

I myself find these East Europeans to be great workers and I look forward to them driving late night buses, private passenger and freight trains when CIE is finally binned by a future Government who will no longer be held to randsom by this so called public transport provider. Only a matter of time now. You can already smell the fear coming off the NBRU.;)



The Sunday Times January 08, 2006

Rabitte accused in 'race card' row
Stephen O'Brien, Political Correspondent
ENTERPRISE minister Micheal Martin has accused the Labour leader of playing politics with immigration, after Pat Rabbitte questioned the right of new EU citizens to work in Ireland without permits.

Rabbitte has denied “playing the race card” and accused Martin of failing to “enforce normal pay and conditions for all workers”.
Martin says the Labour leader should clarify remarks he made last week when he called for a review of the practice of allowing people from the 10 EU accession states to take up Irish jobs without work permits. Rabbitte, he said, “would be the first person out condemning a Fianna Fail TD with huge indignation” if they made similar comments.

“I think the danger of articulating something like that in mid-air is that you raise issues such as ‘is he playing the race card?’,” Martin said.
“The buttons he is now pressing seem to me to have far more to do with an electoral, political agenda than a genuine medium-term economic strategy for Ireland.”

In an interview last week Rabbitte called for a reassessment of immigration policy in the aftermath of the Irish Ferries dispute. He said that job displacement by low-paid workers was an issue beyond the maritime sector and was taking place in meat factories, the hospitality and building industries.

“The time may be coming when we will have to sit down and examine whether a work permits’ regime ought to be implemented in terms of some of the non-national labour, even for countries in the European Union,” the Labour leader said.

Martin said he was surprised that Rabbitte had chosen to reopen the issue of whether Ireland should impose restrictions on citizens from the 10 new member states.

“We will need about 50,000 [migrant workers] a year for the next four to five years to sustain economic growth at the levels that are predicted,” Martin said.

“We have already attracted very significant numbers from the new EU accession states, yet unemployment is still the lowest in Europe at 4.3%.

“Now, I don’t know if he [Rabbitte] is playing the race card in an electoral attempt to win more votes . . . [but] I think he needs to clarify fairly specifically what he means.”

But Rabbitte rejected the “race card” suggestion and accused Martin of failing to “enforce normal pay and conditions for all workers”.

“There is a battle going on right across Europe between those whose primary objective is to seek an endless supply of cheap labour, which this government appears to support, and those who want to maintain and improve wages and working conditions for all workers, which the Labour party supports.

“There is extensive evidence of displacement going on in other sectors of the economy — this is not confined to the marine sector.”

Martin said the government was responding to concerns about wider job displacement in the wake of the Irish Ferries controversy.

“I have already increased the labour inspectorate. We have also agreed that we are open for discussions with Siptu and with the social partners generally on how we can improve policing of Irish labour law, compliance rates, to make sure that people aren’t undercut.”

John R

You are aware that the article you have cut and pasted has nothing to do with the stupid comment you attached to it.

Charles Darwin

PandaMania wrote:

Did that include the Vico Road Anti-Globalisation Drum Circle? I heard that Killian (bongos) and Tarquin (bugie bells on stick) had a falling out as both of them were bidding for the same Peruvian Yak Herders Cap on eBay.

I'm not surprised they fell out, given the rarity value of such an item. Now Tibetan yak herder's caps, well you just can't give them away;)

shltter

Charles Darwin wrote:

I'm not surprised they fell out, given the rarity value of such an item. Now Tibetan yak herder's caps, well you just can't give them away;)

LOL

Doesn't look like there is much of a future for those peruvian yak herders