Would you opt for a Wood Pellet Boiler?

MysterFixIt

Hi Guys, The market place is hotting up for wood pellet heating in Ireland. There are major and outrageous RipOffs in the price of boilers and in the price of fitting.

Boilers and burners are mostly seperate units just bolted together. Many of the Czech boiler units are suitable for logs/timber, as well as for pellet burners. Baxi do a humongous unit that will burn various biomass fuels.

Metal flues have to be special stainless steel grade for solid fuel and it has to be dual walled. This stuff is VERY expensive indeed.

The price of pellets is actually quite good in Ireland at the moment. The pellet dealers are to be congratulated for avoiding the Green Eyed Monster Disease surrounding the grants.

I have a blog where I have posted much of what I am learning on the whole subject. Have a look:
http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

gonk

rooferPete wrote:

The combi will be built but not by me

Will you be selling it Pete?

rooferPete wrote:

There is one on the SEI list at the moment that costs around €11,000.00, if you are willing to wait a while another even better one will be approved soon retailing around €8,000.00.

Can you tell us the make & model of these units (and again, will you be selling them?)

JimmySmith

We want to replace our outside Oil burner with a wood pellet burner, but i need to check some things. If anyone could answer these questions it would speed us along our merry way.

How big are the wood pellet burners. I mean, can we just swap out the oil burner for the wood pellet burner. Its in a little block building about 2 ft x 2ftx 4ft high at the moment.

I assume we would have to put a hopper on the top as we have nowhere to store the pellets beside the boiler house.

Also, exactly how much is the grant.
Thanks guys

pdeery

excellent post. i think i am going to go for the gerkros woodpecker 30kw to heat my 2500sq ft house that i have just started.

i would really be interested in the underground storage tank or the combi unit but is there a site that i can check them out on.

i dont have a garage and dont like the idea of a big silver silo outside the house.

thanks
P

De_man

pdeery wrote:

excellent post. i think i am going to go for the gerkros woodpecker 30kw to heat my 2500sq ft house that i have just started.

P

I have spoken to gerkros and found then extremely helpful

I thought 30KW for 2500sq ft is a bit low would you not go
for the bigger boiler?

There's several sites on the web that show you how to calculate
required boiler size etc,

I believe these links should be of help to you or just google calculate boiler size

www.deals4homes.co.uk/diyprojects/centralheating.htm

or www.diydoctor.org.uk


I'm just about to start a new self build just above 3500sq ft and i had calculated a requirement of 57KW (i had overestimated the figures a bit)
or maybe my figures have gone mad?

Best of luck

a pint of plain is yer only man

As we are now coming to the end of the heating season, I would be interested to know how people who opted for wood pellet boilers got on with them.

I shall soon have to make the decision between oil & wood pellet, I am aware that supply & quality of pellets appears to have been a major issue with some this year, is that still now the case?

Has anyone regretted purchasing or wished they had purchased earlier?

There are many threads on wpb's, I just picked this one to follow on rather than start (yet) another one.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote:

As we are now coming to the end of the heating season, I would be interested to know how people who opted for wood pellet boilers got on with them.

I shall soon have to make the decision between oil & wood pellet, I am aware that supply & quality of pellets appears to have been a major issue with some this year, is that still now the case?

Has anyone regretted purchasing or wished they had purchased earlier?

There are many threads on wpb's, I just picked this one to follow on rather than start (yet) another one.

Anyone??

the brickie

hi dolanbaker
i have just gone through my first year with my wpb.
started it the end of jan.06, my first delivery of pellets from balcas cost
€470 and lasted until sept 06.my second delivery lasted until 4 weeks ago
and cost €504,my latest load cost €544 because balcas are now registered
in ROI.so 13.5% vat instead of 5%
the boiler was using 20/25 kgs per day at the height of the winter last year
(very cold feb.march) and during the summer about 2/3 kgs a day because
my boiler (ETA pe 25) only turns itself on when the house needs heat,so it was only heating my hot water all summer.i hope to put in solar panels
this year to cut out all pellet use when the rads dont need heat.that works
out at about €4.5 a day winter use and 54c a day summer use, using the dearest balcas price per 3 tonne €544.
the boiler display told us to empty the ashes on christmas day,so that was 11 months to the day and 24kgs of ashes which had come from just less than
5 tonnes of pellets.

my advice would be do lots of research, especially into back burn protection
the better boilers are obviously much more expensive but there is a reason
for that,my wpb has 2 seperate augers with an airtight rotary valve between them seperating the onboard 60kg bin and the grate.
also check the esb consumption,the cheap boilers dont have automatic ignation and have to stay lit so check the brochures for full load consumption
of esb and multiply by 24/7.

the austrian boilers are top of the pile so judge all others against them.


hope this helps,we have no regrets whatsoever,except we bought ours last jan.and the grants came in march but you cant win them all

davidoco

posted in error, found answer

I am now coming to the conclusion that the best way forward is to go with an oil boiler, but site it with sufficient space around it to fit a wood pellet conversion kit at a later stage.

There is method in my madness..
1, I have yet to build the garage that will house the boiler, we intend to move iin to the house in mid may but it will be far from finished. So therefore I will just lay the floor slab and drop an outdoor "cosyman" boiler there and build the garage around it at leisure. Working largly single handed there is no guarantee that I could complete it before the next heating season.

2, I want to wait until the supply & quality of pellets issues have been resolved.

3, I shall install solar (water) panels on the roof of thr garage and as the house is insulated to a high standard, whatever fuel I use, the usage should be low. This of course means that the payback for the installation costs of any decent wpb (including the grant) would be much longer than if I expected to have high consumption.

I would have preferred to avoid oil but, it seems to be the best short option for me.

dordali

After alot of consideration, we have decided to go down the same road. Solar panels on the roof of house, oil boiler which we will put in the garage ( so we have option of converting to wpb in the future) and a solid fuel stove with a back boiler. House having extra insulation. So hope not to have to use oil much. Have also planted 600 fast growing willow cuttings early this year which we hope will supply our stove in a few years time.

dordali

dordali wrote:

Have also planted 600 fast growing willow cuttings early this year which we hope will supply our stove in a few years time.

Out of curiosity, tow much land do you have & how much did the willow cost?

I have 1/4 acre of "dead" land on the site and am considering planting something to suppliment the wood pellet/chip boiler(if I fit one)

JamesM

Oil is so simple and is still economical. It is a great backup for any of the "alternatives"
Jim.

I received a quote for an oil boiler & tank, it was just under €1000 including vat, even with the grant it would take several years to balance the extra cost.

Especially with high levels of insulation & solar for water pre-heating.

dordali

Deleted User wrote:

Out of curiosity, tow much land do you have & how much did the willow cost?

I have 1/4 acre of "dead" land on the site and am considering planting something to suppliment the wood pellet/chip boiler(if I fit one)

Our site is about 1.2 acres. Planted them a metre apart so taking up about 600m2. You should have loads of room. Hope to take cuttings off them in a year or two and multiply. They cost 300 euro for the 600 cuttings.

ninsaga

the brickie wrote:

hi dolanbaker
i have just gone through my first year with my wpb.
started it the end of jan.06, my first delivery of pellets from balcas cost
€470 and lasted until sept 06.my second delivery lasted until 4 weeks ago
and cost €504,my latest load cost €544 because balcas are now registered
in ROI.so 13.5% vat instead of 5%
the boiler was using 20/25 kgs per day at the height of the winter last year
(very cold feb.march) and during the summer about 2/3 kgs a day because
my boiler (ETA pe 25) only turns itself on when the house needs heat,so it was only heating my hot water all summer.i hope to put in solar panels
this year to cut out all pellet use when the rads dont need heat.that works
out at about €4.5 a day winter use and 54c a day summer use, using the dearest balcas price per 3 tonne €544.
the boiler display told us to empty the ashes on christmas day,so that was 11 months to the day and 24kgs of ashes which had come from just less than
5 tonnes of pellets.

my advice would be do lots of research, especially into back burn protection
the better boilers are obviously much more expensive but there is a reason
for that,my wpb has 2 seperate augers with an airtight rotary valve between them seperating the onboard 60kg bin and the grate.
also check the esb consumption,the cheap boilers dont have automatic ignation and have to stay lit so check the brochures for full load consumption
of esb and multiply by 24/7.

the austrian boilers are top of the pile so judge all others against them.


hope this helps,we have no regrets whatsoever,except we bought ours last jan.and the grants came in march but you cant win them all

Hi Brickie,
Would you mind advising a few things about the boiler you selected....
- which brand/model did you select?
- did you buy or make the 3.5tonne storage? If so for how much
- did you do anything in particular to make the boiler/pellet storage areas fire proof
- does you boiler have burn back prevention
- does it have automatic ignition?

...... reason for asking is that I am considering wpb's - but the brand & price range on the market is quite significant - so it's not easyh to decide.

ninsaga

the brickie

hi ninsaga
the wpb is an ETA pe 25.bought from evergreen
energy.www.evergreenenergy.ie
as the name suggests i am a bricklayer so i built my own silo
in my shed .evergreen energy supply the auger for the bottom of the
silo and i made the floor sit on the auger at 45 degrees so the pellets flow in \ /.
i built it in a corner so only needed two walls approx 100 blocks and i
lined the inside with plywood,5.5m3 holds 3 tonnes of pellets and to allow for the void under the 45 degree floor i made mine 7.5m3 ,roughly 2.4l 2.4h and1.5w.
the ETA boilers have burnback protection and automatic ignition,i dont have seperate zones in my house but my boiler can heat 2 zones and the hot water seperately.
i didn,t do anything to fireproof my shed because there is nothing flamable
in it and the evergreen boys told me ETA has a 100% record of no boiler
fires.
the silo cost roughly €200 for blocks and plywood and if i had charged myself
probably €200 for labour.

hope this answers your questions ninsaga

ninsaga

Thanks Brickie - given that the ETA folks won't be contactatbel 'til Tue, could you let me know how much this boiler cost. Did that include insallation & commissioning?

Was there additional ancilliary equipment that you also required that was not included in the cost -such as the auger feed from the large pellet store?

Also, did you look at Okefen or Benekov boilers when doing your assessment?

cheers
ninsaga

Chimpster

I saw one of these ETA boilers the other day, seriously impressive looking boiler in fairness but the price is off putting. Its alot of extra money to be paying for extras like automatic cleaning/ash removal and zoned heating.

If you dont mind taking out the ash every 2/3 weeks and cleaning the boiler every 3/4 months there are more cost effective options out there.

On the issue of back burn, the only reason you will get back burn is if you get down draught in your flu and it your flu is positioned correctly then this should not happen. Flues should be fitted at least 1 metre above the highest point on the roof, no short cuts should be taken.

ninsaga

How much does it cost then?

ninsaga

the brickie

the boiler costs €10000 plus vat and with the auger and vacuum
system you are looking at over €13000 installed.then take off the grant
which i missed out on and you have around €9000

ninsaga

Thanks - about the same or thereabouts so for Okofen & Benekov - they are also fairly pricey. Although I would prefer to go down the renewables path, economically the ROI is lengthy ie a good quality wpb+storage v's the cost of a good quality condensing oil boiler+tank. You could be talking about 4-8k difference there. In a well insulated house the ROI may take about 5-7yrs.

Of course given that, oil prices may continue to increase, however reading contributions from some posters here, pellet quality appears to be a concern also.

byrnemx

yep, absolutely the right thing, its clean heat and very cost effective and efficient

ninsaga

byrnemx wrote:

yep, absolutely the right thing, its clean heat and very cost effective and efficient

- right thing? Yes I agree
- clean heat? Yes perhaps
- Cost effective? I need more convincing on the ROI (am really open on that one)
- efficient? As measured by SEDBUK in the UK, modulating condensing oil boilers from Grant are 97% efficient. Now that is good compared to older oil boilers (& even some of the current non condencing ones)

JohnnieM

This may have been mentioned in previous posts as I did not read them all, But I was going to get a Woodpellet boiler until I saw my cousin getting a fill up of pellets ..the dust and dirt that filled his shed was un real.It even got out the windows and ruined the clothes on the line more than 20 yards away.. Real pain
Plus upon talking to a plumber he tells me the Kilo watts per ton is not much better or worse than oil and that a new Oil Condensing boiler and solar panels for my hot water would be a more effective option..

Chimpster

JohnnieM wrote:

This may have been mentioned in previous posts as I did not read them all, But I was going to get a Woodpellet boiler until I saw my cousin getting a fill up of pellets ..the dust and dirt that filled his shed was un real.It even got out the windows and ruined the clothes on the line more than 20 yards away.. Real pain
Plus upon talking to a plumber he tells me the Kilo watts per ton is not much better or worse than oil and that a new Oil Condensing boiler and solar panels for my hot water would be a more effective option..

Good point JohnnieM.

Customers try and cut the cost of their installations by building their own bulk silo instead of forking out 2K for a proper indoor canvas silo. To be honest its well worth spending the 2K as these silos are specifically designed for pellet storage and there is no dust leakage during delivery.

If you choose to build you own silo, then you should leave an outlet for dust on an external wall of the storage area. This outlet should be opened during delivery. Also all joints within the silo should be sealed with expanding foam or some equivalent type filler as dust will escape through even the smallest gaps. If this is done properly it will work fine, but if not you will get a fine layer of dust all over your garage.:(

Looking to the future, very few people will want to give over their garage space for pellet storage. There are a few outdoor silos starting to appear on the market now which will allow you to house the boiler in the garage and auger out through the wall into the silo which will sit up against the external wall of the garage. One supplier is close to releasing an impressive looking plastic silo on the market which allows you to either extract pellets manually from it or auger directly into it.

towbar

Any details on those outdoor silos. I know there is a very good one from McAree Eng Monaghan but costs over 4k. Insulated which seems to be important to avoid condensation.

ninsaga

GreenPlanet have a couple of underground storage units here - no details on prices though

Chimpster

AFAIK Balcas are going to release an outdoor plastic silo which will retail at a more affordable price than the current batch of outdoor storage units. Its an all in one plastic unit so locating it on site could prove difficult for people in urban areas. It will allow for manual extraction, augured extraction and vacuumed extraction of pellets.

galwaytt

to answer the OP's original question - No.

I'm just finishing our 316 sq m build, and looked at everything - and concluded that there was too much capital investment for Geo, and too many 'issues' with Wood pellet. That and the fact that I really just wanted a 'turn key' heating unit for the sitting room. I have zero interested in storage of bulk fuels, handling, cleaning/ashes etc - not too mention that there are quite a few cases where it didn't do what it said on tin.........

So, Solar - definately, and LPG. Modest investment, quickly recouped, highly efficient, and the LPG can be used for heating, cooking and the fire. And, having LPG in my existing house, I know exactly what's involved in using it, and it's likely costs & pitfalls. I currently spend Eur1100 p.a. on a 2200 sq ft house, c/w ufh, and to include all DHW (no immersion or power showers...), and two fireplaces.

Wood/Geo is going to have to come down an awful, awful lot, and improve in quality in spades, before it gets to that level of performance, IMHO.