Is it "cool" to not believe?

Kernel

The Atheist wrote:

But really, does a building add gravitas to a religion? Scientologists have massive real estate and assets, but I doubt you have much time for them.

The point is that the IPU is as proveable, or disprovable as any other deity.

I wouldn't say a building adds gravitas as such (to the theology), but it does lend a credibility or at least reflect the influence of a religion/cult. Don't know much about scientology, but from what I have heard it strikes me as a new age cult, more so than a religion.

To say that there is no evidence for God is something I wouldn't agree with. Looking at the perfection of the universe, the golden ratio existing throughout and everything we continue to discover about the physics of matter, influences me into believing that there was intelligent design behind the reality we all share. I would also believe that this is not the only reality (a view shared by Einstein), and I believe that things exist outside our own sandbox. I can look at the synchronicities in people's lives, and see that things have a way of working out. I have seen that prayer has worked, and that prayer has been proven to work under scientific conditions. That since the dawn of mankind we have been hardwired for religion, and for a belief in a Creator.

We can also look at the miracles performed by many prophets, and even the knowledge contained within the Koran, and how these things have led to a level of civilisation which we now enjoy. It all counts as proof to me, but unfortunately for many cynical people, only the appearance of God Himself on Primetime would suffice.

Birdofthread wrote:

And a mention of the whole, People Following Christian Teachings Properly issue, if we followed the bible Properly, we'd all be out stoning gay people to death.which would be incredibly wrong.
who could forget those lovely bible sentences "their blood shall be upon them" ?
thats not exactly a teaching of love and forgiveness is it? noooooo

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, love thy neighbour, judge not lest ye be judged. All those teachings and philosophies from JC would stop people stoning other people or killing them. There is some contradictions in the Old Testament, however, but I'm more of a New Testament man myself.

Stevejazzx, while Voltaire was a brilliant intellect and philosopher, his cynical words on the issue would not bear any weight with me, especially over Jesus and his revolutionary words and miracles.

Dades

Kernel wrote:

To say that there is no evidence for God is something I wouldn't agree with. Looking at the perfection of the universe, the golden ratio existing throughout and everything we continue to discover about the physics of matter, influences me into believing that there was intelligent design behind the reality we all share.

I believe the intelligent design debate makes interesting reading, but exactly how one goes from agreeing a designer was involved to pairing it with your god is beyond me. Especially given the manner in which the creation of the earth is descibed by that god is as far removed as possible from what most believe to have occured.

"Proof" of intelligent design would not be proof of your, or any god put forward. A leap of faith is still required to associate said designer with any particular deity.

Kernel wrote:

It all counts as proof to me, but unfortunately for many cynical people, only the appearance of God Himself on Primetime would suffice.

I'm disappointed at your use of the word "cynical". Sceptical, yes, but for most here the only motive behind any doubts is to be true to oneself.

rsynnott

Kernel wrote:

I have seen that prayer has worked, and that prayer has been proven to work under scientific conditions.

Sorry, what? Do you have documentation?

Kernel

rsynnott wrote:

Sorry, what? Do you have documentation?

Have a read here: http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm

Many studies under scientific method were carried out on the effects of prayer. Google it, if you want more.

Kernel

The Atheist wrote:

I believe the intelligent design debate makes interesting reading, but exactly how one goes from agreeing a designer was involved to pairing it with your god is beyond me. Especially given the manner in which the creation of the earth is descibed by that god is as far removed as possible from what most believe to have occured.

"Proof" of intelligent design would not be proof of your, or any god put forward. A leap of faith is still required to associate said designer with any particular deity.

Proof of intelligent design is proof of a creator, that is what my God is. Having accepted the intelligent design of the universe, it then gives me less reason to doubt in a creator, and thus makes it easier for me to accept the word of many prophets, who seemed to make sense to me. Religion is often a personal thing for many people, and they will choose to believe whatever one makes more sense to them. The key thing for me is to believe in a creator, and thus a force and reason behind the universe and our existence. The fact that I believe in the God described by Christ is just a personal choice from reading the Bible and coming to accept the wisdom contained within. Similarly, I would guess many muslims arrive at the same conclusion through reading the Koran.

The Atheist wrote:

I'm disappointed at your use of the word "cynical". Sceptical, yes, but for most here the only motive behind any doubts is to be true to oneself.

I wasn't inferring that you were cynical in any way, you may well be sceptical, you seem at least to be open minded by your interest in intelligent design of the universe, but there are many many more atheists who are downright cynical. You can even spot them in this very forum, they just seem to have a chip on their shoulder about religion in general, and look at religion or spirituality in a very cynical (even aggresive way)way, rather than simply being skeptical (which is fine by me, I am a skeptical person also).

The people who are ardent campaigners and attackers of a 'God' theory, or of religion, are just as annoying as the pushy Jesus freaks who try to convert everyone to their way of thinking!

rsynnott

Kernel wrote:

Have a read here: http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm

Many studies under scientific method were carried out on the effects of prayer. Google it, if you want more.

A bit of looking round will show that those experiments were non-reproducable (and most of them look highly dubious from the onset). Non-reproducable experiments are of limited use.

rsynnott

I'm quite happy for people to believe in whatever they want, just as long as they don't try to force it on me, or impose it on public policy.

Kernel

rsynnott wrote:

I'm quite happy for people to believe in whatever they want, just as long as they don't try to force it on me, or impose it on public policy.

Likewise, but unfortunately, ethics and religion (from which many of our ethics, including your ethics, are derived) often crosses into public policy, and perhaps there can be never an accomodation to both belief and non-belief, most we can hope for is a compromise.

UU

Invisible Pink Unicorn and Flying Spagetti Monster. Now they're much more interesting Gods! (lol)

Dades

Kernel wrote:

there are many many more atheists who are downright cynical. You can even spot them in this very forum, they just seem to have a chip on their shoulder about religion in general, and look at religion or spirituality in a very cynical (even aggresive way)way, rather than simply being skeptical

I won't disagree with that - there are all sorts here. There are obvious chips on shoulders and there are those who simply drop by to shout a cynical one-liner before departing for After Hours. Still, religion, of lack of, is a very passionate area for people and at least they're being cynical (and sceptical) here rather than less appropriate forums.

Kernel wrote:

The people who are ardent campaigners and attackers of a 'God' theory, or of religion, are just as annoying as the pushy Jesus freaks who try to convert everyone to their way of thinking!

Absolutely. Pushy religious and pushy atheists do their respective corners no favours. The US has it's fair share of both at the moment - that situation where "atheist" US college students were offering porn for bibles no doubt infuriated many atheist groups for tarnishing the image of decency they strive to promote.

However most people on this forum are guilty of "attacking" (I prefer the term 'challenging') the 'God' theory as you put it. As most of us would have been raised in one faith or another, how else would one declare themsleves atheist/agnostic? It's only natural here that we welcome challenges or questions of that nature.

I'm sure you yourself have challenged the 'God' theory at some stage - the only difference being that you have not found it wanting.

Bodhidharma

People need to be less concerned if its "cool" to be an atheist or not. I think to believe or not is only a decision that you can make after serious thought. Simply saying yes or no is irrelevant if you put no thought into the answer.
To be honest i'd say its probably uncool to be a serious atheist, but its cool if you go around mocking the fundamentalists.

Zillah

The Atheist wrote:

There are obvious chips on shoulders and there are those who simply drop by to shout a cynical one-liner before departing for After Hours.

Clever observation

Stephen

I do like to take potshots at creationists and religious extremists and the like, as they strike me as complete nutters. I have no beef with the average christian/muslim/jew/<insert faith here> on the street, just the nutters.

Guilty, your honour :v: