Should Padraig Nally be in jail?

Sparks

irishgeo wrote:

Check your facts mate. Nally had seen Ward before when he was up at his house with his son asking for directions to the nearby lake.

Really? Says who? The man on trial for murder, who we already know has lied about what happened?

Villain

You keep saying Nally is lying, Nally is an innocent man who has commited no crimes - Fact.

John Ward was a serious criminal who had been convicted of several crimes.

I know who's word I would be believe.

civdef

Sparks, you going to be taking a private prosecution for perjury against Mr. Nally?

Unless you have proof, those statements are libellous.

cornbb

Kavs wrote:

just some small fact to add to this discussion ,the body of an 18 year old boy was pulled from the water in the docks in Galway city during the week................his throat slit..It turned out to be the body of a lad missing since Saturday night. He was last seen being chased be a group of between 10 -15 nackers, aka travellers.(this is a well known fact confirmed by witnesses)
anybody that says you cant distinguish a nacker from a normal law obiding citizen is a fool.you just know...

Now i know this has nothing to do with this topic but i feel compelled to write this. My younger brother knew this lad and said he was the soundest lad you could know ,came in to the city from the country for a night out..........and had his life snuffed out in the most horrific way, it makes me sick to think of what he went through ganged up on by those fu#kin animals ,his throat slit ,and being dumped in the water probably still fighting for his life god damn horrific!!!!

This demonstrates the calibre of these god damn nackers,,, oh ya nearest major halting site is carrowbrowne the very same halting site Mr. Ward hailed from.

fu@kin place should be burnt to the ground with all the scum inside.

I feel sorry for you and the offspring I hope you never have.

Nuttzz

John ‘Frog’ Ward had 80 previous convictions over 38 different court appearances including burglary, handling stolen goods, assault, and larceny.

charming chap to have walking among us, I wonder how many previous convicitions Nally had.....

civdef

What have burglary statistics been like in that area lin the last few years?

Sparks

irish1 wrote:

You keep saying Nally is lying

Because we know he did. His tale didn't match the physical evidence. Tony Fecking Martin all over again.

Nally is an innocent man who has commited no crimes - Fact.

Nally's legally innocent. So were those tried and acquitted of lynchings in the South in the 1950s. Doesn't mean either did anything wrong, anymore than it means that Mr.C, now in jail for an act that is not a crime in Ireland, didn't do anything wrong.

John Ward was a serious criminal who had been convicted of several crimes.

"Noone is above the law and noone is below the law" - McDowell, this ****ing morning.
Nice ideal. Pity it doesn't survive in this racist little sore of a nation.

irishgeo

Sparks wrote:

Really? Says who? The man on trial for murder, who we already know has lied about what happened?

He was not on trial for murder.

If he lied, why the cops not arrest him for perjury.

Thats right they have no proof he lied and neither do you.

Whats this we business you are on about. I have no proof either way whether nally lied or not, nor do i claim to have.

Sparks

Nuttzz wrote:

John ‘Frog’ Ward had 80 previous convictions over 38 different court appearances including burglary, handling stolen goods, assault, and larceny.

And all of that is as relevant in the murder trial where Ward was the victim as whether or not a woman who was raped was a virgin or not. The law either applies to us all or it is worthless.

Villain

Sparks wrote:

Nice ideal. Pity it doesn't survive in this racist little sore of a nation.

Grow up Sparks, making sweeping statements like that just shows your ignorance to our nation.

junkyard

I have to say I'm sh*t sick of scum bags being defended at every turn in this country, its no wonder its in the state its in with crime gone totally out of order. Its about time people stood up for them selves and put an end to this crap. It strike me that rules are only there for law abiding people.

Nuttzz

Sparks wrote:

And all of that is as relevant in the murder trial where Ward was the victim as whether or not a woman who was raped was a virgin or not. The law either applies to us all or it is worthless.

the jury couldnt find him guilty what makes you more qualified than them?

Sparks

civdef wrote:

Sparks, you going to be taking a private prosecution for perjury against Mr. Nally?

I don't have locus standi. The Wards ought to IMO.

Unless you have proof, those statements are libellous.

Truth is a defence against libel, and those statements are a report of a public statement by Nally and a report of testimony from a court, both of which are specifically exempt from the defamation laws in Ireland.
(You'd never guess I'd been threatened with libel before, would you?)

Sparks

irishgeo wrote:

He was not on trial for murder.

He was when he said it first.

If he lied, why the cops not arrest him for perjury.

Because murder has a longer penalty, and it beggared belief that he'd get away with it, I would imagine.

Tar.Aldarion

irish1 wrote:

Grow up Sparks, making sweeping statements like that just shows your ignorance to our nation.

Are you saying that there are not a lot of racist people in Ireland?
What country do you live in...

irishgeo

Boards.ie is not exempt. You have no proof of the truth.

whiskeyman

Nuttzz wrote:

John ‘Frog’ Ward had 80 previous convictions over 38 different court appearances including burglary, handling stolen goods, assault, and larceny.

For me, this is the key problem of this case and the finger has to be pointed at our legal system for letting people like this roam our streets more so than at Nally who, ultimately, was put in a position to take drastic (and unreasonable) action against him.

I agree with the argument that Nally should have been found guilty of manslaughter, as this would have been the correct result for our legal system, but since it failed already for letting Ward out on the streets... it had to fail again to acquit Nally.

For the majority, it seems, two wrongs have made a right.

Villain

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Are you saying that there are not a lot of racist people in Ireland?
What country do you live in...

There may be racist people in this state, but the decision of 12 people as members of a Jury doesn't prove it imo.

joebhoy1916

Blackjack wrote:

And you know this how?. Any links to back it up?.

Sorry was thinking of the first case..

whiskeyman wrote:

I agree with the argument that Nally should have been found guilty of manslaughter

That's rubbish. If I beat someone when I'm drunk and he dies or something in around them line's that's manslaughter shooting a man in the back isnt manslaughter.

civdef

Truth is a defence against libel, and those statements are a report of a public statement by Nally and a report of testimony from a court, both of which are specifically exempt from the defamation laws in Ireland.
(You'd never guess I'd been threatened with libel before, would you?)

Nope, but I don't make a habit of acusing people of lying on public fora either.

Like I said, you seem to have formed an opinion about to Nally's statements and the evidence which are at odds with those arrived at by the court or by Nally. Were the points you raise highlighted by the prosecution?

I think you're putting yourself out on a limb here and need to give the matter some thought.

irishgeo

civdef wrote:

Nope, but I don't make a habit of acusing people of lying on public fora either.

Like I said, you seem to have formed an opinion about to Nally's statements and the evidence which are at odds with those arrived at by the court or by Nally. Were the points you raise highlighted by the prosecution?

I think you're putting yourself out on a limb here and need to give the matter some thought.

On that note i am signing off.

Tar.Aldarion

irish1 wrote:

There may be racist people in this state, but the decision of 12 people as members of a Jury doesn't prove it imo.

It does not mean they are racist, no. They could be anybody.
Anyway, just saying a lot of people are racist in this country, which is what he said, it's true.
A lot of people also think travellers are not people, and don't deserve any rights.
In the eyes of the law, a traveller that is not in jail is a free innocent man. That man did not deserver to die, to go to prison, yes.

smallpaws

100% guilty people are acquitted nearly every day through our justice system - at least in this case it looks like the right fella ended up dead.


Correct. I know it sounds cynical, but to me Ward's death = one less scummy career criminal running around Ireland. I've been burgled twice myself and I have no sympathy for chronic, career thieves. You don't know how you'd act or how you'd feel until you were in that same situation yourself. The second night the freak (also a career criminal) that burgled my house came back, I had been out looking at guns in the pawn shop that afternoon. Ward didn't have to be there to burgle, excuse me, 'look at a car', and I think I'd feel much safer with Nally living next door to me than the now-decased Ward.

Kavs

cornbb
its time to wake up mate!
these people are the scourge of the country,they leave a trail of destruction where ever they go, i'm only saying what the majority of this country knows but are to afraid to say.
ill leave it at that and disrupt this discussion no more.

junkyard

How is it that its a racist issue now? Just because John Ward was a traveler doesn't automatically brand him a criminal. There are plenty of decent travelers out there too. Just like there are plenty of seemingly upright citizens who are scum. I think people are very quick to put scum in a category i.e. they're all travelers or they're all from some particular area. In my experience scum come from all walks of life, I know plenty of the who wear suits and ties and appear above board and I know plenty of people who might look like scum to some people but are if fact very decent people.

Tar.Aldarion

If you have a problem with a career criminal being on the streets, campaign for tougher laws against them, keep them locked up. Don't condone the murder of a man that did not deserve it. As the law stands, Ward had done his punishment for those crimes and was a free innocent man.

How is it that its a racist issue now? Just because John Ward was a traveler doesn't automatically brand him a criminal. There are plenty of decent travelers out there too. Just like there are plenty of seemingly upright citizens who are scum. I think people are very quick to put scum in a category i.e. they're all travelers or they're all from some particular area. In my experience scum come from all walks of life, I know plenty of the who wear suits and ties and appear above board and I know plenty of people who might look like scum to some people but are if fact very decent people.

This is exactly right, but in a lot of peoples eyes the fact that he is a traveller means scum, end of.
McNally did not know about these convictions that Ward had, what if he had had a clean history?
Should the verdict be the same?

Devon

On a relevant note, I'd say Nally will still be seeing Gardai on a daily basis for protection. I think the travelling community will be set on delivering their own summary justice to Nally... possibly even going so far as to 'return the favour'?

Sparks

How is it that its a racist issue now?

There are plenty of decent travelers out there too. Just like there are plenty of seemingly upright citizens who are scum.

:rolleyes:

Flukey

People, who and what Nally and Ward were is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if John Ward had 1 million convictions or had won Person of the Year for the last 40 years. It doesn't matter that he was a traveller or not. It doesn't matter what Padraig Nally may have gone through before that day. The case is based on the events of that day, on the killing of John Ward, which even Padraig Nally does not deny. What we have to look at is this:

A man goes in to rob a house; the owner shoots him and beats him to within an inch of his life, and with the man well away from his property, goes back and reloads a gun and shoots him dead and dumps his body.

Now that is the case. Most of the things that people have mentioned in this thread are completely irrelevant to those facts. There is no mention in what I have outlined of those external and irrelevant facts. Now, read it again:

A man goes in to rob a house; the owner shoots him and beats him to within an inch of his life, and with the man well away from his property, goes back and reloads a gun and shoots him dead and dumps his body.

Right, now that is the case. On that case and absolutely nothing else, outlined twice for you all, is what we should be judging Padraig Nally on.

civdef

A man goes in to rob a house;

I got that far and made my own mind up on the rights and wrongs of it. It appears the jury and most of the people in this country did the same.