Waterford looking to expand...

Aquos76

I would be very interested to hear peoples views on this item. Waterford coperation are eager to expand the city boundries into South Kilkenny. I live just outside the borough boundry on the Kilkenny side, and I for one hope that this actually happens. I feel the the local reps on Kilkenny Co Co dont give a toss about ferrybank and the surrounding areas. We only see them when there is a local election coming up.

With regard to the major shopping development planned for Abbeylands, I would like to see this go ahead and Kilkenny Co Co are all for this, and have received full planning permission, but for whatever reason Waterford Corp have objected to this.

Victor

Leonard wrote:

but for whatever reason Waterford Corp have objected to this.

It would draw moeny and rates away from the city.

merlante

The boundary should of course be increased. The kilkenny people are only against it because of history and hurling related reasons. They should be accomodated as far as possible, but the entire city should be run by the city council, and that means the part of the city that has spread into kilkenny too.

Now kilkenny is starting to work at odds with waterford city council by backing this new development. The north quays project will be a huge development and will fully cater for the north of waterford. But kilkenny are trying to push a rival scheme which will endanger this development. kilkenny county council are enjoying the financial benefits of taking in a portion of waterford's urban area and they don't want to give it up.

This new shopping centre would not be on the cards if waterford city council were in charge because there is already a better plan in the works. kilkenny co. co. and various other interests seem to be playing games.

At least that is my impression of the situation...

mike65

I had the misfortune to listen to a "debate" ie playground squabble on WLR about 10 days ago, where the issue was thrashed out to nobodys credit.

The burgurs in Kilkenny city, sorry town don't give a rats ass for the south of the country unless Waterford makes noises about the city boundry.

Its clear enough that the evirons up as far as Mullinavat and across to New Ross are dominated by Waterford city in many respects. Its where so many ppl in the area work/shop/socialise/get educated but mention that red line on the map and the old country jersey mentality cranks into life bringing the debate down to finger pointing. Sigh!

Mike.

mad-blaa

Yes, our fine City should be expanded into Kilkenny. Kilkenny needs a city! Hee hee!

tramoreknacker

mad-blaa wrote:

Yes, our fine City should be expanded into Kilkenny. Kilkenny needs a city! Hee hee!

What a bunch of plonkers youse boys are. Waterford will take no land of no-one.Ye'll be as successful as yere hurling team. Hurling Team ha ha ha. Ye cant even win yere own under 14 tournament......lol

PS... oh wait, i forgot, Waterford is the home of the singing Traveller.
Sing away boys sing away...............aaaahhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..........

dlofnep

tramoreknacker wrote:

What a bunch of plonkers youse boys are. Waterford will take no land of no-one.Ye'll be as successful as yere hurling team. Hurling Team ha ha ha. Ye cant even win yere own under 14 tournament......lol

PS... oh wait, i forgot, Waterford is the home of the singing Traveller.
Sing away boys sing away...............aaaahhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..........

What on earth has happened to your grammar? Also, noting that you actually pay attention to the results of an under 14 hurling tournament would indicate that you yourself are close to that age. I'd expect nothing more from an ill-mouthed youth. Begone troll.

Mossy Monk

tramoreknacker wrote:

What a bunch of plonkers youse boys are. Waterford will take no land of no-one.Ye'll be as successful as yere hurling team. Hurling Team ha ha ha. Ye cant even win yere own under 14 tournament......lol

PS... oh wait, i forgot, Waterford is the home of the singing Traveller.
Sing away boys sing away...............aaaahhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..........

go home troll

Cabaal

This was already discussed to death
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=281649

trishw78

Just a couple of things I'd like to mention Kilkenny is a CITY it has the population of a city... The North Warf project is not a shopping complex...

merlante

trishw78 wrote:

Just a couple of things I'd like to mention Kilkenny is a CITY it has the population of a city... The North Warf project is not a shopping complex...

The Cityness of Kilkenny has been discussed many times on other threads. It does not have the population of a city, since a number of towns, such as Dundalk, Drogheda, Bray, etc. are all quite a bit larger than Kilkenny and are not cities. In the case of Dundalk, which is 50% larger than Kilkenny, it was denied city status not so long ago, iirc.

There will be a large retail element in the North Quays development. Although it will be city centre style shopping as opposed to the neighbourhood/suburban shopping facilities that are required by Ferrybank. (and beyond)

trishw78

Either way I'll stil be flyin the Black & Amber

run_Forrest_run

Will ye head off ye blas! The reason for objection has nothing to do with hurling related matters....cop on.

if the south Kilkenny residents want to live in waterford then cross the river and do so...or is it too expensive for ye...South Kilkenny will always be.

Bards

What Kilkenny Co Co & Deerland Construction want to build would & could not be regarded as a neighbourhood shopping complex. This complex will have in excess of 1,000 car parking spaces available. City Square has only 500 or so. They want this amount of spaces becuase they want to build a Regional Shopping Centre taking business away from New Ross, Clonmel, Waterford.

At the end of the day it is about money, greed,power and did I mention Money (I.E Rates), so that Kilkenny can build another new roundabout in their so called "City" It is not about the people of Abbeylands,Ferrybank et all.

What they are now proposing is larger than the original plan that was refused by An Bord Pleanala.




This is an extract of what An Bord Pleanala had to say on the matter
=======================================================
REFUSE permission for the above proposed development based on the reasons and considerations set out below.


REASONS AND CONSIDERATIONS

1. It is considered that the proposed development, due to the extent and scale of the retail floor space proposed, in particular comparison floor space, would be significantly in excess of the needs of the future population of the northern suburbs of Waterford City that are located in County Kilkenny, would be of a type and form that would be likely to impact in a significant and detrimental way on the vitality and vibrancy of Waterford City centre and would be contrary to the provisions of the Development Plan for the Waterford City Environs (Kilkenny County Development Plan 2002) for this designated District Centre site, and would conflict with the principles and criteria set out in the Retail Planning Guidelines for Planning Authorities, issued by the Department of the Environment and Local Government in December, 2000. The proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.


2. It is considered that the proposed development, by reason of its bulk, mass and scale, its monolithic form and internalised nature and its lack of pedestrian scale or of visual or functional linkages with the surrounding area, would be visually obtrusive, would fail to provide an appropriate form of urban design for the site and would fail to create a sense of place and focal point for the Ferrybank suburban area on a site which is designated as the District Centre for the developing northern suburbs of Waterford City that are located in County Kilkenny. The proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.


================================================
The full text is available on-line at http://www.pleanala.ie/alldec241204.html

ID is 10207509

Trotter

STOPPPP THE MAAAAADNESS!

Kilkenny people.. Waterford city is spreading out into an area of Ireland that you never even knew was there up until now. The tribal not an inch stuff is fine but the fact of the matter is , its a decision to me made at government level and the decision will be based on whats best for the south east region.
SO.. No more hurling talk.

Waterford people.. Just ask the nice people in government in the form of a well educated proposal, for a bit of land across the river. The govt. will say yes, because it will open up the South Eastern region more fully, taking the new motor way into account etc, and will help us link Kilkenny and Wexford.
Dont argue with the troll type people, and the pike wielders, they wont discuss anything rationally anyway.

Im from Waterford, I live a few meters inside the boundary and my car is a D reg. The poor creatures dont know what way to talk to me lol

Its a govt decision.. they'll make the right one, because its soo obvious. KK never had any interest in this area until it started making money for them by accident.

trishw78

Kilkenny is a city http://www.kilkenny.ie/ Just look at the offical website

mike65

tramoreknacker banned.

Me yawns...

Mike.

merlante

trishw78 wrote:

Kilkenny is a city http://www.kilkenny.ie/ Just look at the offical website

*Lots* has been said on this before - see/revive older threads. There was one on the Kilkenny City board at least, and the argument has come up elsewhere.

The Local Government Act, 2001 does not list Kilkenny as a city but it does say that use of the term "Kilkenny City" is not inconsistent with the act. This means that Kilkenny does not have the status but it can use the title.

For me that is the final word, but anyway, as I said, all these arguments have come up before.

AdMMM

Does Killkenny have a CITY COUNCIL? I thought not and thats why it isn't a city.

hamster

I'm from outside Waterford but I work in Dublin because Waterford is in the slow lane. Honestly let's forget these tribal disputes and boundaries and just expand the city so we can get some decent investment to the southeast... it's woeful!

OLDYELLAR

WTF NO Fing way!!
Its Kilkenny for christs sakes!!!

How dare waterford corp even suggest moving the bloody boundary into taking over part of kilkenny!! :mad:

Trotter

OLDYELLAR wrote:

WTF NO Fing way!!
Its Kilkenny for christs sakes!!!

How dare waterford corp even suggest moving the bloody boundary into taking over part of kilkenny!! :mad:

Aaah stop How many Kilkenny people live, work, and socialise in Waterford? Would it not be better if that area was developed (KK hasnt developed it!) and economically improved the area where so many Kilkenny people spend their time?

The time for tribal stuff is over. If it means opening up the whole South East area then its beneficial for Kilkenny, Wexford and Waterford.

OLDYELLAR

no way , Waterford corp are doing this for one reason only ....money!!
Fux sake it makes me so angry!Bloody cheek :mad:

merlante

OLDYELLAR wrote:

no way , Waterford corp are doing this for one reason only ....money!!
Fux sake it makes me so angry!Bloody cheek :mad:

More land. More money. More (financial) responsibility. The only thing that would make it worthwhile, from a financial point of view, is bringing the port back in to Waterford. (and I'm sure not even a Kilkenny man would expect Kilkenny Co. C. to take rates from the Port of Waterford on a permanent basis)

Anyone who accuses Waterford of land grabbing, money grabbing, etc. is nothing more than a bigot. Why not have a look at the proposal and find out what the actual reasoning is!

Cabaal

Trotter wrote:

Aaah stop How many Kilkenny people live, work, and socialise in Waterford? Would it not be better if that area was developed (KK hasnt developed it!) and economically improved the area where so many Kilkenny people spend their time?

The time for tribal stuff is over. If it means opening up the whole South East area then its beneficial for Kilkenny, Wexford and Waterford.

Oh how I love this logic,
So by your logic if a number of Waterford people worked in Kilkenny, Kilkenny has the right to annex a portion of Waterford.

Nice! :rolleyes: .

merlante

Cabaal wrote:

Oh how I love this logic,
So by your logic if a number of Waterford people worked in Kilkenny, Kilkenny has the right to annex a portion of Waterford.

Nice! :rolleyes: .

If the situation was reversed, and Kilkenny was on the border, I'd be in favour of giving them the boundary increase. And I have no problem with Carrick or Clonmel getting an increase. People get put out and annoyed, but it is totally necessary. Irish people are way too attached to these English counties!

Trotter

Cabaal wrote:

Oh how I love this logic,
So by your logic if a number of Waterford people worked in Kilkenny, Kilkenny has the right to annex a portion of Waterford.

Nice! :rolleyes: .

So you think my whole argument is based around that? It would be.. if I was thick. I dont think you even read my post! How did you come to that conclusion? Theres nothing in logic that links my post to your conclusion.

Read the Document.. Examine the economics.. Think rationally.. Then.. come back to me with something better than presuming to know my logic.

I could go into my opinions on this in great detail.. only for some tool to make idiotic statements about Land grabbing and "not an inch". I live in 2005, not 1925. Im more interested in Regional economics to be honest, something Ive heard very little about from the KK camp.

If giving a part of Waterford that Waterford County Council had done nothing for, to Cork or Kilkenny to take over for the benefit of regional economic success, Id say no problem. I dont feel any tribal link to Waterford, I was born here yes, but Ive lived in other counties. Im Irish, end of story.

My jobs logic is that if Waterford is more prosperous due to transport links etc, which are being choked by Kilkenny County Council, then the people of Kilkenny would benefit with a share in the prosperity by being able to take up the jobs that would result.

Now.. roll your eyes elsewhere :rolleyes:

BlaaBoy

up the deise

Mossy Monk

a wonderful contribution there

Trotter

BlaaBoy wrote:

up the deise

And that achieved..... what?

mike65

merlante wrote:

Irish people are way too attached to these English counties!

Quite so! Now pipe down everyone. This matter is in the hands of the Dept of the Environment, no-one else has a say ultimatly.

Mike.

Victor

The BS argument exists in most of the city areas and is only really settled in Galway (where the border extends well beyond the urban area) and Dublin (where the county was split in 3 and all the borders redrawn, although some glitches have arisen).

In cork, 57,000 out of 180,000 people living in the continuous urban area live in the county. The county refuses to allow the city to extend its boundary "because there is still building land in the city". Of course if the county didn't zone land on the city boundary, it would be easier to develop that land.

Both Limerick and Clare counties have enclaves on the border of Limerick.

---

I wonder how the border of Graiguenamanagh lies?

Perhaps they should build the M8 direct from Rathdowney to Thurles and bypass Kilkenny. That'll get a few farmers thinking. I'm sure Waterford would do a deal with Tipperary (admittedly South Tipperary council) trading some mountain to Carrick-on-Suir and Clonmel.

mike65

http://unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1463454&issue_id=12965

WATERFORD'S proposed boundary extension into south Kilkenny has received a setback with the launch of a 'people power' campaign aimed at stopping it.

Kilkenny councillor Tomas Breathnach insisted that authorities must now listen to the views of the Confederaton of Community Groups of South Kilkenny.

The confederation opposes the expansion which Waterford has been seeking for over two decades - some south Kilkenny residents have claimed they would move if their area comes under the legal sway of Waterford.

But Waterford insists that the boundary extension is crucial if the booming city is to develop. The River Suir effectively divides Waterford city from South Kilkenny - and, despite the fact that the northern (Kilkenny) suburbs of Waterford have dramatically expanded over recent years, they remain under the auspices of Kilkenny Co Council.

The Waterford authorities have argued that control of areas close to the city is particularly important given plans for a major up river by-pass of the city, including a high-span bridge.

This project is expected to kick-start residential, commercial and industrial expansion of parts of South Kilkenny adjacent to Waterford city through transforming its transport infrastructure.

The above carries much less weight when you read the front page story in Waterford Today which shows the majority of the population within the area in question are born outside Kilkenny.

Mike.

Bards

The Munster Express have undertaken a survey of the people in the affected area and they have found that over 50% are in Favour, with less than 33% against. If as we are allowed to believe that we live in a democratic society than the view of the majority will hold sway and the boundary will indeed be expanded into south Kilkenny.

But on the other hand democracy can fail and politics can come into play. So instead of moving Waterford from fifth to fourth in terms of urban areas and the funding and economic growth that comes along with that we can all implode into the waste that is the south east political arena.

Freddie59

|.Murderer.| wrote:

Does Killkenny have a CITY COUNCIL? I thought not and thats why it isn't a city.

Well said. Got it in one.

OLDYELLAR

oh whist!

Freddie59

BlaaBoy wrote:

up the deise

Bloody hurling again. That's what has everything as it is. Waterford are useless at hurling, but have EVERYTHING else - the reverse applies to Kilkenny. Other fly in the ointment is people, like trish and old yeallar (and their county fellows!) are living in the 40s.

We in Waterford are a progressive race. It shows all around! :rolleyes:

Cabaal

Freddie59 wrote:

Other fly in the ointment is people, like trish and old yeallar (and their county fellows!) are living in the 40s.

We in Waterford are a progressive race. It shows all around! :rolleyes:

Yes, in many different ways you could have said the same about the Nazi's (look at all the technology they came up with)
:eek:

OLDYELLAR

Ya know nothing about me how I live where I live etc etc . so keep me out of your little examples .

OLDYELLAR

Freddie59 wrote:

Bloody hurling again. That's what has everything as it is. Waterford are useless at hurling, but have EVERYTHING else - the reverse applies to Kilkenny. Other fly in the ointment is people, like trish and old yeallar (and their county fellows!) are living in the 40s.

We in Waterford are a progressive race. It shows all around! :rolleyes:

Sure man if they have everything , why would they possibly want more ? :rolleyes:Think about it just for a minute .

Mossy Monk

so who gets the final say, some suit up in Dublin?

Maharet

Mossy Monk wrote:

so who gets the final say, some suit up in Dublin?

Well people have two months to lodge complaints, that up to the end of September, the 26th in fact.

Kilkenny County Council then have 6 months to draft and submit a response to it.

The proposal and Kilkenny Co. Co. response will then be both be sent to Dick Roche, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government

He then makes an order on whether to approve or reject the boundary extension, which must be approved by both houses of the Oireachtas.

I think Waterford have time to adjust the proposal, after the complaints and response of Kilkenny Co. Council have been read by them, before it's sent to the Minister.

Marcopolo85

OLDYELLAR wrote:

Sure man if they have everything , why would they possibly want more ? :rolleyes:Think about it just for a minute .

Just think about what you're saying. I'm not saying we need the boundary extension - merely pointing out the gulf that exists between the neighbouring counties.......but sure it might take you a little while to spot that one . Couldn't give a toss if we never expanded into that particular 'area'. Only winners in that situation would be SKK.

I presume that you, being a very obviously loyal KK person (and fair play to you) do not availa of any of the magnificent facilities available in the Waterford City. Presumably you go to Kilkenny town to use these? OOOOps - forgot - they don't have them! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Marcopolo85

Cabaal wrote:

Yes, in many different ways you could have said the same about the Nazi's (look at all the technology they came up with)
:eek:

Yep - exactly the quote I was expecting! I think that's the second time we've seen that term used. Says it all about the mentaility abroad in that area.

Marcopolo85

OLDYELLAR wrote:

Ya know nothing about me how I live where I live etc etc . so keep me out of your little examples .

For God's sake man - grow up! It's fairly obvious where you live:

WTF NO Fing way!!
Its Kilkenny for christs sakes!!!

How dare waterford corp even suggest moving the bloody boundary into taking over part of kilkenny!!

That's from your earlier post in this thread........hmmmmm....I wonder where you're from.......oh, wait.....I'd say it's KILKENNY!!!!

Cabaal

Marcopolo85 wrote:

For God's sake man - grow up! It's fairly obvious where you live:
I'd say it's KILKENNY!!!!

Don't be so sure.....

mike65

OldYellar is in fact a female of the species.

He/she who mentions Nazis first looses the argument!

Mike.

OLDYELLAR

Marcopolo85 wrote:

For God's sake man - grow up! It's fairly obvious where you live:

WTF NO Fing way!!
Its Kilkenny for christs sakes!!!

How dare waterford corp even suggest moving the bloody boundary into taking over part of kilkenny!!

That's from your earlier post in this thread........hmmmmm....I wonder where you're from.......oh, wait.....I'd say it's KILKENNY!!!!

I infact live in waterford.

OLDYELLAR

Marcopolo85 wrote:

Just think about what you're saying. I'm not saying we need the boundary extension - merely pointing out the gulf that exists between the neighbouring counties.......but sure it might take you a little while to spot that one . Couldn't give a toss if we never expanded into that particular 'area'. Only winners in that situation would be SKK.

I presume that you, being a very obviously loyal KK person (and fair play to you) do not availa of any of the magnificent facilities available in the Waterford City. Presumably you go to Kilkenny town to use these? OOOOps - forgot - they don't have them! :eek: :eek: :eek:

sure why do ya think I moved here? Just cant live without the blaa`s man.

Marcopolo85

OLDYELLAR wrote:

I infact live in waterford.

Yes - but you're originally from? Never seen a Waterford person feel such a passionate obligation to defend Kilkenny....... :eek:

OLDYELLAR

well you did say you knew where I lived I was just pointing out you were wrong .Ya its pretty obvious I was born and reared in Kilkenny.