IV Medals

Renegade_Archer

How we going to work this? I found the system in DCU to be a bit scabby - just one trophy for best advanced - you could have come up with best male advanced / best female advanced / best male beginner / best female beginner IMHO... anyone else have any opinions? Not really fair on the women to be competing against the lads for trophies(or given Sineads and Maires scores, its not fair on the lads to be competing against the women for trophies )


Opinions?



Regards


Ewan

halenger

I'll take the blame for that. Probably forgot to mention it when explaining various things.

Aryzel

Maynooth will have:
Best Male
Best Female
Best Beginner
Best Barebow
1st, 2nd, 3rd: Teams

Hmm, acutally might do the best male and female, advanced and beginner, i'll think about it, any suggestions welcome

Bruce Arch

I think, if you go for best male/female for advanced and beginners, it wouldn't be fair not to do the same for barebow. Having said that there are probably not many people in the barebow category anyhow, so having two trophies might not make that much sense.
I think it's okay to have only one trophy for beginners, but don't ask me why (probably 'cause I am kind of used to it). But if it ain't getting too expensive getting trophies for best female/male in all three categories, it might not hurt to go for it.
Especially for the beginners it's a bit unjust anyway. All the really good beginners (the ones above 400) will be after this IV advanced anyway, therefore competing in another category, whereas someone skipping the first IV(s), but having started shooting as early as the others has a much higher chance of winning best male/female beginner when he/she competes in the second or third IV for the first time als all the other good beginners will be advanced already. But I don't see how you could avoid that, and actually I don't think it's a big problem.

Reku

As I understand it the money was pretty tight so if you really wanted more prizes it would have been a case of choosing between : more trophies & no sambos or paying more to enter. Personally I think that €10 entry for an IV is ok but how does everyone else feel about it?

Aryzel

medals cost less than a €5 each so cost on that end isn't much.
€7 for intervarsities should be plenty. we made €140 profit on our competition last year even after spending €250 on food for ye all.

€7 . (62-5) = 400

food = ~100
medals = ~100
target faces = ~30
money for other extra expenses = ~170

so i can't see how anyone isn't doing fine at €7 per person

Aryzel

i think we'll just have:

Teams Prizes
Best Male Adv
Best Female Adv
Best Male Beg
Best Female Beg
Best Barebow

Although i'm two minds about the adv ones. Sinead and Máire do ye want to compete against the guys or not? I don't like making too many categories, like they have at the iaaa shoots, it makes the medals worthless.

Renegade_Archer

I agree with the above list. I think we should keep both Male & Female advanced. Were not competing against the girls in the league, so why should we compete against them for medals?



Regards


Ewan

Bruce Arch

It's surely true, too many medals would make them kind of worthless. I think Aryzel's categories are fine. Maybe, if there is some money left one could go for little trophies instead of medals, it's just so much nicer in my opinion.

Reku

Aryzel wrote:

medals cost less than a €5 each so cost on that end isn't much.
€7 for intervarsities should be plenty. we made €140 profit on our competition last year even after spending €250 on food for ye all.

€7 . (62-5) = 400

food = ~100
medals = ~100
target faces = ~30
money for other extra expenses = ~170

so i can't see how anyone isn't doing fine at €7 per person

Booking one hall in DCU is far from cheap so booking the whole three for the whole day was undoubtedly rather costly, could see it being €200+ alright.

Aryzel

ahh, sorry didn't realise ye had to pay to use the hall, thats a bitch. most colleges allow clubs to use hall for free for competitions

mhairesa

Aryzel wrote:

Sinead and Máire do ye want to compete against the guys or not?

I dont mind shootin against the lads but dont forget that sinéad and I aren't the only girls in the advanced. Just 'cause we are at the same standard(or better in some cases!!! ) than the lads are doesnt mean any of the other girls are. I dont think many of them will bridge the gap and that makes it unfair on them. These are the only archery comps alot of them will shoot at and closing the door for them to earn a medal doesnt seem right. But thats just my opinion!!

Aryzel

once either you or sinead are at the competition they are already out of the running for a medal no matter what

mhairesa

I suppose but now they can come 3rd or 4th but if we're all in together they'll be much further down the list. And Sinéad and I wont be in college forever when we're gone what'll hapen then? you cant just change it back to the lads being seperate to the ladies

Aryzel

we're in charge, we change the rules as much as we want :P

anyways, maynooth will have Best Male and Best Female for both the Adv and Beg categories. Only one bestbow prize, as there isn't too many of them atm.

Can each college, send me a rough list of how many adv and beginner archers they would like to bring. Also trains from dublin to maynooth will be operating on the weekend of the competition.

halenger

mhairesa wrote:

I suppose but now they can come 3rd or 4th but if we're all in together they'll be much further down the list. And Sinéad and I wont be in college forever when we're gone what'll hapen then? you cant just change it back to the lads being seperate to the ladies

I guess it could always be offered as a choice to the ladies who were of the ability? As in yourself and Sinead, for example, could choose to compete with the lads. Not a forced thing but a choice.

The other way I see it though would be perhaps some of the ladies wouldn't work as hard at it if they didn't have to compete with ye?


Just on another note something I was thinking the other day. More categories in Advanced. Not necessarily for medals, though it would be nice. Something like a sub-500 category. Like the Sub-1000 in FITA. I see 500 as quite a hefty target in competition. I don't have my sights set on winning ever. My sights are set on getting to 500. It's my current goal. Though I'll have to start breaking 400 again. Anyhow. Just a thought.

Aryzel

Over 400, and below 400 would be a better split of the advanced section. i suppose its worth thinking about

Bruce Arch

Aryzel wrote:

Only one bestbow prize, as there isn't too many of them atm.

:eek: 'Bestbow' is this a new category, what are the criteria (colour and look of the bow, handling, tuning possibilities)? - Just kidding

Anyway, interesting arguments. If setting a sub-category (no matter if with or without medals, 'cause as Aryzel wrote, gushing out medals might make them worthless), how about 450? At the IV 'only' 11 were below 400, 18 above. Setting the sub-category at 500 might be too high as only 7 (of 22) had a score that high. With the dividing line at 450 there would have been 14 below and 15 above. [To add some math: the mean was 428, the median 451]
But there are good reasons for 400 as well as 500 as well as anything between. I personally would suggest 450 or 480 as this means you have to have an average of 7.5 or 8 and that's fairly good shooting, I'd say (but this says someone who is still quite a bit away from either 480 or 450).

mhairesa

Sinéad and I were talking and as far as we were concerned the prize was for highest overall score not best advanced. cause if ya think about it if a beginner shoots really well and gets a 540 oh something like that they should get both best beginner and best overall score.The leagus isnt for best adcanced its for best overall so shouldnt the medals be the same?Good idea about splitting the advanced but doesnt that bring us back to the original point for this thread.. medals and the fact that some clubs can only afford the bare minimum... more categories=more medals!!

toxof

How about prizes other than medals. I know you (mhairesa) were pretty chuffed to get a shiny badge to put on your quiver. Each college could get small badges/pins made up or something...

Blackheath give out teddies, chocolates & last January Dun Laoire gave crystal.

I know most of the colleges dont have great amounts of money to blow on prizes but its nice to get something different.

Bruce Arch

I think that's a good suggestion. Maybe 'even just' some printed paper (certificate like). You just have to do a decent layout once and then colour-print. And you could even put in the name (if there is someone around with a decent handwriting).
This might sound a bit crappy, but actually that is all you get at most smaller sports competitions and it's something you can keep, so it's not gone after you munched it (ah, well, I was trying to draw an analogy to the chocolate, but it seems like the paper might be gone too when you munch it).

halenger

I agree. That sounds like a good idea alright. Badges are nice. Always wondered what those mini compounds were like. :P

Maybe something at the end of the year for them though or something. Though on that point. A box of chocolates isn't the cheapest thing these days either!

But anyhow. Yeah 480 or 450 might be a better target. How does one run it though? For example the year before last I was in and around 450 a few times. Last year I strugled to break 400.

This could also apply to people in the beginners category who break 400 in beginner... Not sure really if it'd be practical to be moving around the place though.

But anyhow. Another division in advanced makes a whole lotta sense. Some people don't have the time/money/whatever to get to top level and also for beginners who break 400 it gives them a lower target to aim for. Should make for some good hearty competition in mid-advanced.

trig

Time for my 2 cents everyone....

First of all, I think the 450 is too easily achieved to make it a worthwhile goal. I think that breaking 400 is something an average beginner who shoots regularly will take between 3/4 of a year and 1.5 years to achieve and an effort like that should be rewarded. To go on and get 450 takes alot less time and effort IMO. I think rewarding people who reach 500 is more worthwhile as it is something most archers need to knuckle down and really work at. While a 400+ shooter can fluke a 450 or shoot one if everything comes together, to get 500 requires more knowledge of things like form, more consistency and better mental skills. Talk to anyone who has actually broken 500 (I haven't btw) and this is pretty apparent. I know there are exceptions but I'm trying to generalise here. A badge similar to the one being given out to beginners who make it through to advanced would be nice for breaking 500. And they'd be sufficiently rare to make them coveted. I think only 10 people who shot on Saturday + Madrab would get one. That said, it’s a reward in itself, isn’t it?

Secondly, I notice that last year the Cuthbert sisters won 2 out of 5 IVs and in UL they actually finished first and second. Since the whole idea of different sections for men and women is based on inequality between the sexes, the fact that they win at all is due to their greater skill and so they should be rewarded (assuming they are best females of course) even when they don't kick male ass as well as when they do. Just because they make it look easy doesn’t make it so. If that makes any sense. In other words, I think there should be a female advanced section too.

Finally, I think it should be left up to the organisers of each event to decide what to give as prizes. It’s unfair to force clubs to shell out for medals when they can't afford to pay for them. That said, it would be nice to have standardised categories at every IV. On a personal note, I would like to see the prize as something that can't be consumed (eg not something like chocolate). Even a certificate is good if that’s all that a club can afford. Mind you, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of those IAAA nationals medals. They're huge! And shiny. Mmmmmm Shiny

Renegade_Archer

Ive four of those IAAA medals, three silver and one bronze... those silvers will haunt me the rest of my days...

Renegade_Archer

We could use these badges from Quicks, intended for the GNAS system, nothing stopping us using them:

http://www3.btwebworld.com/cgi-bin/listprod.cgi/bishop/?search_pattern:Badges

Bruce Arch

Trig is definitely right about each university deciding what they would like to have medals/trophies for at their IV. I took that as obvious as they have to pay for it.

For the sub-categories: I think we were talking a bit about different things here. I understood it as a real sub-category, that is basically similar to beginners and advanced just splitting advanced up in two categories. So you would have beginners (60 cm unless they score 400+), advanced I (40cm and best score so far below 450/480) and advanced II (40cm, the high-scorers). I suggested to have 450-480 as the borderline score to get more balanced groups and the beginners moving to advanced have another goal they can work for (getting into advanced II) and which is still achievable. 'Cause as trig said, 500 is really hard.

The thing about the badges sounds like a one-time thing to me. The first time you break a certain score, you get a badge. Pretty much like the newly introduced pin for the beginners moving to advanced. I think that a really good idea, haven't thought about that before. In this case I am tending to agree trig and his 500 score suggestion. Or maybe have it like this:
beginner breaking 400 -> pin (move to advanced I)
advanced breaking 450 -> 'second class' badge (move to advanced II)
advanced breaking 500 -> 'first class' badge
The badges Ewan suggested are surely nice. But I am also aware, having had a look at the price, that you can blow quite some money on that. On the other hand, you could just have all the clubs join in on the costs. This also would make sense as at some IVs many archers might get a badge and at others only a few and therefore it'd be unfare to have the host university pay for it - especially as you wouldn't know before how many you'd have to get.

Anyway, maybe that's too much thinking about a too sophisticated system.

trig

Two things here:

1> The quicks badges are pretty damn expensive £2.45 as opposed to €0.61 for the altservices badges so we wouldn't want to be giving them out all over the place if we decide to go ahead with it.

2> I disagree with setting up another category in advanced. Fair enough giving out a pin or whatever but i don't think a seperate category would work. Imagine we did have an advanced I category for best advanced archer under 450 and Bruce Arch won with a score of 446. Well, if I were Mathius Vogler, I'd pretty pissed off cos I'd have just shot a 451 (DCU IV) and gotten nothing. Not only that, but I'd have finished bottom of my category. I just don't think you'd be more deserving of a prize then Mathius.

With the beginner category the difference in face sizes makes it easier to seperate categories but picking a random number in the middle of the advanced category just seems unfair on anyone who finishes just above it. The alternative is to do what the GAA are thinking of doing with the Hurling Championship: you say at the start which you want to go into - Advanced I or Advanced II and the best man (or woman) wins. But once you win a certain number of times you have to move up. Still means more expense in prizes both during the year and at the end.

I'm not mad on the idea personally

Renegade_Archer

I know Im slightly biased from my point of view from "the top", but I dont 450 is all that hard tbh... if we made it perhaps 500 it would be more of an acceptable target... as previously mentioned getting 500@FITA18 is not an easy task, and seems to be a better boundary than 450...

even if we dont have the badges, I think having two seperate advanced catogories might be a good idea.. for the dudes down in 450 territory it must feel a bit hopeless going up guys shooting 520+.... their only real hope of a medal at the moment is in the team event..

Just my two cents tbh, in the IAAA shoots not every club has medals for every category, if a club isnt up to the expense they dont have to splash out on the medals.


As regards the individual league tables, I dont think they would need to change, as its based on score anyway.

Do people think we should just have "Best Advanced" title, or should we have a "Best Advanced II" as well? Im against it to be honest, due to the changing nature of the population i.e if someone shoots 500 in the middle of the year they graduate to Advanced I. Ideas?

MicS

But the idea is that people start shooting at some category (like under-1000, over-1000, over-1100) and continue doing it for the competition. In the case of breaking some points, s/he will move to the next category for the next (and further) competitions. We have the same for beginners even now.

That's why I think bigger threshold (like 480 or 500) is better, 'cause 450 is quite easy to shoot on a lucky day even if s/he is shooting 350-400 on average.

mhairesa

500 isnt that hard to get if people actually put their minds to it. and i can already see the "thats easy for you to say cause you've been shooting 6 years" replies to that statement but i broke the 500 barrier with a crappy wooden bow in my 2nd season doing archery... why is it so different for everyone else???

on the badge front a couple of clubs up north(seven towers i think) give out little gold silver and bronze badges for prizes. they seem to go down well.

just a thought why dont all the clubs get together at the beginning of the year and bulk buy all the medals for the season. split them up to however many shoots there'll be and u'd save money.

trig

You might have broken 500 after 2 years mhairesa, but you shot a 485 last year and 2 504s so even with 6 years experience it must be a reasonably difficult level to maintain. Mind you, you also shot a 534 so maybe its down to other factors too (alcohol perhaps!!!!).
The point remains that 500 is a good goal and any mental coach will tell you how important goal setting is.

If this whole thing is a question of giving people something to compete for, I'm still not sure it'd be entirely successful. For example I count 30 different pople last year who shot advanced and never scored over 420 and so would have never really competed in an advanced II category never mind the advanced I category. Those people won't benefit at all from these proposals and those are probably the ones in most need of the motivation.

MicS

Yes, trig, those people need motivation, but don't we all?

Of 25 male advanced archers at last IV, there were 8 people who broke 500 in competition, 4 of them won some IV before. Then add there madrab, and aryzel (he'll break 500 sooner or later), and Cuthberts. These people have some chance of winning IV in near future.

For the rest, winning IV will mean improving their PB by a considerable margin. So another division is for them. Winning Div2 still requires some effort but it is possible. We do not want to give medals just for sake of giving them, but make so that everyone has a chance of winning something (provided some effort or luck).

trig

Well I can only speak for what motivates me personally, I won't pretend to know what drives anybody else. For me, breaking 500 is an important goal. DIT winning is an important goal and if I can shoot well and be a part of that, I'll consider it a good day. There are some people who consistently shoot scores close to me (like yourself MicS) who I like to finish ahead of but its mainly about reaching 500 and DIT winning at the moment. If that won me some kind of individual medal, well that's nice but its not what drives me to (try to) shoot better.

I think that this proposed extra category is only going to benefit a small percentage of IV archers - probably those who shoot between 460 and 500 on a reasonably regular basis and that's why I'm against it. Don't forget MicS that there'll be 11 new advanced archers (hopefully) in Maynooth and its likely that none of them will be shooting 480s this year. And we can expect a further 13 to graduate to advanced during the year if last year is anything to go by. And thats on top of the 14 or so non 500 shooters in DCU

If we create an advanced I category for (say) sub 480 shooters, the sub 420 archers would have every right to come along and say 'we want a sub 400 advanced III category' and then the sub 350 archers would want a advanced IV category and where can a line be drawn fairly without giving everyone a medal? For alot of these people, winning advanced II will mean improving their PB by a considerable margin.
Now obviously we're not about to do that, but I'm sure you can see that to the guys at the bottom of the pile it looks like we're just creating categories to give ourselves a few trophies.

Or maybe I'm being too melodramatic?

I'd like to hear more from people who don't have as much of a vested interest in the decision tbh.

Bruce Arch

trig wrote:

I'd like to hear more from people who don't have as much of a vested interest in the decision tbh.

Quite frankly, I find it very offending of you to more or less directly accuse in general the ones (in particular some personally) adding their thoughts to the current discussion of just doing so in order to increase their chance of getting some kind of medal.
As I cannot and don't want to speak for anyone else in this matter but for me I feel the need to set some things straight, just for the record.
My goal in archery is not winning medals. A low score achieved after a consitent shooting with narrow groups and the groups pretty much all in the same place is much more satisfying to me than a high score with the arrows spread all over the target face. Also getting a team medal for a score just above 400 is not as much worth to me as having a better score without being on the team. And the IVs I mainly see as a chance to meet some other archers and have a good time.

If one decides to make sub-categories, pretty much any borderscore can be argued for and against. There also always will be some kind of injustice. For example, in the last IV: Stephan scored 401, Conal 388. Stephan is now advanced, guess how has a better chance to win a medal at the next IV. Or someone doing archery for already a couple of years but not having competed at an IV yet, guess how this ones chances are compared to someone who began a couple of weeks ago. Or Stephan again: with 401 and if shooting for DIT he would have won a team medal.

As I mentioned before I get the feeling it's too much thinking about a too sophisticated system. Maybe introducing a one-time award (like the pin for beginners breaking 400) for different levels (400, 450, 500 or whatever) would be a fairly simple solution if the need is felt to have more smaller goals to reach for.

I personally don't think your (I am solely talking about trig here) contributions to this whole discussion are actually constructive. Just mocking about what others said, stiffly insisting on your point of view, but not adding own suggestion will not be an asset to this discussion in my opinion.
I feel it's not fruitful to proceed adding my thoughts to this topic and will therefore not be contributing anymore.

MicS

Let's just make a vote of club captains/representatives at the next IV to decide if there would be other divisions/categories and what'd be the thresholds.

IMHO, to summarize it: 1. at the moment, there are 7 people eligible to shoot in the league who won the best male/female award before. 2. few more people could do (hope to do) in near future. 3. that's one of reasons why new league ranking system was introduced this year to give everybody else measure of progress or standing.

Other thing is psychological limits: 500 seem to be important one, reaching it takes 1-3 years, but after it people reasonably start hoping on winning IV. Again, IMHO, 450 is quite reachable by someone seriously taking effort to do it within few months (in our club, we now have an example that it is possible to do in less than 2 months).

I understand that circumstances are different for everyone (study, exams, work, etc.), conditions of training are different in clubs. I do not want to offend anyone, but I sincerely believe that archery is such a sport where anyone can become good enough for international level competitions, unless there are serious disabilities preventing it. What it takes is proper attitude/ambitions, positive thinking, serious efforts, some coaching and a lot of time

And awards ... medals, trophies, badges, pins are nice, of course. They may increase motivation. You could put pins to your quiver display trophies at home and so on. But I prefer approach of eastern martial arts that more important is self-improvement.

Yeah, this discussion is becoming long and too serious.

trig

First of all let me clarify a few points here. I thought I had worded my last post in such a way as not to cause offence but obviously I'm wrong so I apologise for any offence caused, none was intended.

Originally Posted by trig
I'd like to hear more from people who don't have as much of a vested interest in the decision tbh

What I ment here was that you leave yourself open to criticism if we do make an extra category and its the guys who win it who were the big impetus behind it. If you get consensus from people like Ewan and Sinead or Maire and perhaps people from the other end of the scale, it gives you a foundation upon which to argue. Its just covering your own ass. I wasn't trying to imply that Bruce Arch or indeed anyone else is trying to give themselves a medal, I was simply trying to provide some constructive criticism.

Originally Posted by Bruce Arch
I personally don't think your (I am solely talking about trig here) contributions to this whole discussion are actually constructive

I think thats a bit unfair! I made some valid points about why I don't agree with creating the advanced II category as described by others. And on that note...

Originally Posted by Bruce Arch
Maybe introducing a one-time award (like the pin for beginners breaking 400) for different levels

... I actually put forwardthe idea that you're referring to here. Now thats constructive is it not????

Originally Posted by Bruce Arch
Just mocking about what others said

I don't like having to take other peoples messages apart, but I never mocked anyone (on this thread at least!). I think thats being unfair. And I never insisted on my point of view either, I simply put it forward as you did. Also, I did put forward my own suggestion - I suggested that pins should be given out for reaching a certain score instead of creating new categories. The reason I didn't propose anything else is that I think the current system is fundamentally sound and I apologise if I was unclear about that.

I may have made a few comments about what mhairesa said and her scores last year, but she and I are friends and in our own strange and twisted way thats how we communicate - by taking the piss out of each other! I can see how they might look like sniping, especially the 'alcohol pehaps!!!' part but I know full well she was out on the piss the night before she shot that. Plus I know full well she's a very good archer.

Please, by all means criticise my arguments, but your criticism of me personally is both unfounded and unfair.

Reku

Personally I don't see a need for separate catagories beyond beginner, you're either shooting for the sake of shooting and just interested in improving yourself and setting a new PB or you're just in it for glory and regardless of what you do eventually someone better will come along or no-one will care about how well you do in a IV. If you enter yourself into a catagory just to win a shiny piece of metal then you should really re-evaluate why you're even doing archery, so why do we even need further divisions, surely by the time someone breaks into the advanced catagory they've been at it long enough to have developed a love of archery, if they're just in it for medals is it really a big loss if they get fed up being unable to win medals at advanced and sod off? The whole point of the IVs I thought was a fun kind of competition, not concerning yourself so much with how you do relative to other but just relative to how you feel you should be able to do.

Aryzel

Altservices have 3 little pins, all go for 0.31 in packs for 100, 0.49 in packs of 10, and 0.61 individually, so they are cheap.


Is awarded when beginners shoot 400 on 60cm target. (or if people skip the beginners section, when they shoot 300 on 40cm targets)


I suggest, using this as an award for archers who get 400 on the 40cm target


And this as an award for archers who get 450 on the 40cm target.

Despite what some say, both are difficult targets for many people. It took me 2.5 years to get 400 on 40cm target, and another 2 to break 450 at an IV, which i only did at DCU.

As for an award for 500, there definitely should be, and there is, when you get 500 at a register FITA 18 IAAA shoot you get an offical FITA Target Award, also one for get ones for 525, 550, and so on. I think awards for 400 and 450 would give people achievable stepping stones (its a long way to 500) and when they reach the level that they are aiming for the 500, we should be trying to get them into mainstream competitions.

If people approve i can have the pins by the maynooth intervarsity.

mhairesa

I like the arrow head one but personally I dont think the eagle one. Its a good idea tho and if IV's register for FITA shoots(not sure if the club has to be affiliated or not) then the +500 people can claim their target awards and everyone is happy!!!

trig

I have to agree with farohar to a large degree, but I do accept that there are people out there who need something concrete to aim for or they just stagnate.

Sounds pretty good to me Aryzel. There might be difficulty making an IV a recognised FITA shoot because we are limiting participation to college archers. I'm not sure of the regulations tbh. There may be a cost element as well.

One other thing, the womens pin standard is lower for FITA. The womens first pin is given out for breaking 475 while the mens is for breaking 500. That doesn't mean that we have to do the same or anything, thought it was worth mentioning though. We could always make the womens first pin 375, the 2nd 425 and then the FITA pins kick in.....

Aryzel

hmm, actually checked the FITA rule book, i couldn't remember what award came after 500, (525 it turns out) but it says its for both male and female (also recurve and compound are the same also). In any case i think its easier to just keep level at 400 and 450 for everyone.

If there suggestions for alternatice pins, the ones on quicks aren't great, i'd still go the eagle, it looks pretty cool when you have it.

MicS

Checked the rule book as well. But there was some confusion with awards Tony was giving out in Cork. He was saying levels are 500, 520, 540, 560 for men. Also starting from 475 for women, don't remember what are other values. Anyway, they are different from the current FITA rulebook (500, 525, 550, ...). Also Maire said she had to return her award, cause she already had FITA star for that level (though the rule book says there are FITA Stars for outdoor and FITA Target awards for indoor target archery).

Maybe this confusion was resolved at Dublin Archers FITA or will be in Kilkenny this weekend.

mr potato head

Another problem arose with the pins/badges, the competition has to be registered with the IAAA at least 30 days before the shoot to make the scores elegible for a pin (an official score)
i'll look into whether an IV can be registered!

On the topic of breaking the categories, i do not think it is a good idea. It makes for higher costs for the IVs more arguments, paper work, and needless complication of the system.
I may be bias on the subject being capable of shooting 500+, but there are plenty of archers who can get 500 and higher this year and i am glad there are more this year.
This rising level of scores can only be good for our sport and adding classes midway through the ranks wont help an archer, they will only lower the targets they hope to achive and some may settle for these rather than acheiving they're potential.

mr potato head

i do think awarding archers for reaching certain scores is a good idea eg 400 450 500 etc. but do this without a separation of categories.

i think this is a subject for disscution at the maynooth IV, i have suggested a meeting open to all to sort out the Assocation thing and i think that this would be the best time for "constructive debate" on any topics people feel need to be sorted out from "awards" to shoot format.

i know this meeting could take an hour or more (probably the latter) to run but the items i have mentioned should be resolved sooner rather than later in a place where all archers can contribute.

we now have a way of bringing our concerns, suggestions and questions to the IAAA so we should use it.

halenger

mr potato head wrote:

i do think awarding archers for reaching certain scores is a good idea eg 400 450 500 etc. but do this without a separation of categories.

God you people talk a lot... But anyhow. Yeah I've gotta agree this is a better idea. I know I started all this but awards for different levels is a good idea. Much easier to handle also.

trig

We're ordering gear from altservices this week so if you want badges ordered with our stuff it'll save on postage. If MicS or Bruce Arch still want to have a meeting at NUIM IV about it thats no problem either.

I stress, I'm not trying to put pressure on anyone, nor am I insisting that we order them this week. I'm simply suggesting that if everone agrees, I can get free postage for them.

I need to know by wednesday at the latest if you want the badges ordered.

Aryzel

i've stuff on order from altservices atm, so was planning to add them to my order, also i get 5% off with the ABC membership. its easier for me since i presume i'll be working up a list of people/ numbers we'll need for the medals.

I think everyone is good with the idea of the badges for scores of 400 and 450 on the 40cm targets, so i'll go ahead with that then, unless there are any objections i'll work the numbers tonight and add the badges to my order tomorrow.

Aryzel

incidently, there have been 111 advanced archers, of which 44 people have broken 400 on the 40cm targets in the past 3 years (plus DCU IV). and 24 of them have also broken 450. Here's the university breakdown, interesting in a way, shows the breath of the team. (most advanced first)

University (#Adv #400+ #450+)

---

UCD (27 - 10 - 4 )
UL (18 - 6 - 4)
GMIT (14 - 6 - 3)
DCU (12 - 7 - 4)
Maynooth (12 - 3 - 1)
DIT (10 - 5 - 5)
NUIG (9 - 1 - 0)
Carlow (8 - 5 - 2)
Cork (1 - 1 - 1)
Athlone (0 - 0 - 0)

---

TOTAL (111 - 44 - 24)

mhairesa

are the dit people the same? ie whoever broke 400 also broke 450? cause thats consistancy!!! its good to see that just over half of the overall number broke the two, hopefully most of the 450ers will break 500 this year!!!

Aryzel

ya, ciaran, keith, sinead, noel and john all have broken 400 and 450, its actually a bad thing though, it means when they start losing them, their team score is going to drop like a rock, unless they get excellent archers to replace them.


So far only 40% of advanced archers break 400, and only about half of those go on to break 450. So i think the awards for getting 400 and 450 will give advanced archers an incintive to try harder.

mhairesa

Aryzel wrote:

ya, ciaran, keith, sinead, noel and john all have broken 400 and 450, its actually a bad thing though, it means when they start losing them, their team score is going to drop like a rock

yeah but that also means the rest of us have a chance!! but i dont know where DCU are gonna get 600 odd points!!! maybe some ppl from korea will come over on exchange!!!:D