Child falls off bike - hurts knee!

A Dub in Glasgo

Hagar wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, I'm a Dubliner who has lived outside Dublin for 5 years so I haven't been reading the Evening Herald or whatever. I have only recently started commuting back to Dublin.

Are the rules of the road simply based on "if it's bigger than you, get out of the way" ?
If so, must small cars yield to bigger cars who in turn yield to bigger cars who yield to vans who yield to trucks?
This sounds like the law of the jungle to me.
What about when the first Luas hits a Calor Gas truck? Then we'll all have something to write about... It's only a matter of time.

The rules of the road will state

1. You must stop at traffic light if the light is displaying a red. It will not say 'At sight of a red traffic light, accelerate and pass said traffic light at red'.

2. You must only enter a yellow box junction if your route ahead is clear. It will not say 'Park your car in the yellow box because you don't want anyone else getting past you'

If you obey those two simple and basic rules, you will have no problem with the LUAS

sliabh

seamus wrote:

No, but the LUAS is a separate lane, essentially.

There are some spots there where the Luas shares a lane with road traffic, and not just for crossing lanes. I can think of an instance on Abbey street, by the street that runs towards the hapenny bridge.

seamus wrote:

When crossing any lane, you must give way to approaching traffic on that lane, i.e. "Get out of the way". This applies to all traffic, except pedestrians. So the child on the bike is in the wrong. If his parents had educated him correctly, he either wouldn't have crossed when the LUAS approached, or he would have cycled safely to the other side of the road.

AFAIK this incident happend at what is essentially an unguarded level crossing. There is no other way road users interact with the Luas in Milltown

Gurgle

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The rules of the road will state

1. You must stop at traffic light if the light is displaying a red. It will not say 'At sight of a red traffic light, accelerate and pass said traffic light at red'.

2. You must only enter a yellow box junction if your route ahead is clear. It will not say 'Park your car in the yellow box because you don't want anyone else getting past you'

If you obey those two simple and basic rules, you will have no problem with the LUAS

Maybe a public information campaign titled 'Trains can't swerve to avoid you' is needed ?
Apparently that piece of information isn't obvious to the average dublin driver.

BrianD

AFAIK this incident happend at what is essentially an unguarded level crossing. There is no other way road users interact with the Luas in Milltown

There are many misinformed politicians (particularly from the PDs for some reason) calling for extra barriers on the Luas including, unbelievably, level crossings. Good old nanny state stuff and rather ridiculous. For the record the presence of a guarded level crossing would not have prevented this stupid kid from cycling ON the tracks. Unless he was actually on the paved road crossing it is pretty difficult to cycle on the tracks on the Green Line.

Duckjob

Hagar wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, I'm a Dubliner who has lived outside Dublin for 5 years so I haven't been reading the Evening Herald or whatever. I have only recently started commuting back to Dublin.

Are the rules of the road simply based on "if it's bigger than you, get out of the way" ?
If so, must small cars yield to bigger cars who in turn yield to bigger cars who yield to vans who yield to trucks?
This sounds like the law of the jungle to me.
What about when the first Luas hits a Calor Gas truck? Then we'll all have something to write about... It's only a matter of time.

BTW is there a "Kick me" sign on my back?

The ROTD that I studied 10 years ago stated regarding right-of-way: "If in doubt, play safe, yield"

If this basis level of cop-on and common sense dies off on our roads, we're all fecked.

Hagar

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

2. You must only enter a yellow box junction if your route ahead is clear. It will not say 'Park your car in the yellow box because you don't want anyone else getting past you'

I agree that stopping on a box juction is not only illegal but stupid.
Let's not forget however the purpose of this law, it was to leave the road clear so that other vehicles could proceed un-impeded when the lights changed. I don't really think anyone anticipated a tram speeding into the junction with neither the means nor the intention of stopping if it was blocked.
If the trams are going to act as trains they should be treated as trains and proper level crossing junctions installed. I think motorists would respect these. Even with the prevailing poor standards of driving we seldom hear of accidents at level crossings.

BrianD

That's ridulous! Level crossing gates at tram crossings??? A tram is not a train and does not "behave" as one! Anyone breaking a red light can reasonably expect to be hit by another vehicle which will do as much, if not more damage, as a tram travelling at 50kmh. As it happens, incidents at railway crossings are not an unusual occurence in this country

A tram has a means of stopping and stopping fast, if a car is already sitting in a yellow box the tram waits till it clears and then proceeds on its way. A tram can not avoid a car that suddenly breaks a red light and crosses its path. The current situation is perfectly adequate and requires no changes. What is required is more public information and education on the subject. The unfortunate people involved in the incidents this week are in bizarre way probably providing part of this education!

I read somewhere, that international experience suggests that a new light rail system will clain six lives in its first year of operation through various incidents. Let's hope that this will not be the case in Dublin. I believe that in general the tram lines have been introduced relatively problem free. We have to expect various incidents will occur as everybody gets used to their presence. Calling for level crossings and barriers is not the way forward as it yet again dulls the responsibilities of road users.

sliabh

BrianD wrote:

The current situation is perfectly adequate and requires no changes. What is required is more public information and education on the subject.

I agree totally with the first point, but I'd add that a bit more enforcement could help the second.

BrianD wrote:

I read somewhere, that international experience suggests that a new light rail system will clain six lives in its first year of operation through various incidents.

After remembering what a friend told me about the Heuston light rail system I did a quick google on "heuston light rail accidents" and found this chronicle of woe. They had 58 accidents by August after the system started running in January.

The 58th accident sounds pretty familiar too, woman breaks red light and is hit by train.

BrianD

Enforcement would be welcome.

The only good thing about these accidents is that it gives the media back their stick to beat the Luas. The got years out of demonising the system and then had to stop once it started and the public took to it like a duck to water. No doubt some media outlet will start its chronical of woe here ...