Child falls off bike - hurts knee!

Sarsfield

A child has been injured close to a LUAS track in South Dublin this lunchtime.

It's understood the boy was cycling his bike accross the track in Milltown, but panicked when he saw a tram approaching.

The boy left his bike on the track as he ran away and the tram struck the bike.

The boy was not hit by the LUAS but it is believed he injured his knee after falling.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1027/rta01.html

Shrimp

Why are you posting this?

Sleipnir

oh i love it....!

"Dickey Rock in mickey-rot shock" !!!!

Healio

Sarsfield wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1027/rta01.html

look at the related stories on that page, six collisions and a derailment.

koneko

Heh, that passes for news nowadays?

Hell, where's the "kitten stuck in a tree" stories?

Jim

/me hangs around LUAS track

Compo here I come.

BrianD

When the red light breaking drivers on the red line get the bill for tram repairs ...

vinnyfitz

what Koneko said.

journalists! :rolleyes:

enterprise

Hey we have all been moaning (rightly so) about the standards of Irish driving - I would include cyclists in that.

How many times have you been crossing a road with a green man when a cyclist comes whizzing by against a red light you nearly knocking you down?

I've seen it with trams as well - afaik If I see a tram approaching, I wait until it passes. Waiting 10 seconds aint going to kill you (excuse the pun!)

sceptre

koneko wrote:

Heh, that passes for news nowadays?

Hell, where's the "kitten stuck in a tree" stories?

"Kitten falls off bike, hurts.... ah screw it, I'm going to watch Sky News for their last quarter of the hour "noos" story.

dazberry

Sarsfield wrote:

The boy was not hit by the LUAS but it is believed he injured his knee after falling.

Wonder did parent subsequently "injure" child for arriving home sans bike?

Get on Luas at Connelly ~ 5.10pm...
Luas pulls out, gets as far as the first yellow box...
Gobsh1te truck driver leaves container across box
Gardai are present - but not much they can do
Eventually truck moves on - Gardai stop traffic
Luas starts moving
2 cyclists zip infront from behind truck in opposite direction
First Garda just shrugs - think they're at their wits end at this point.

D.

therecklessone

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

/me hangs around LUAS track

Compo here I come.

Or you could try driving around the roundabout at Dublin airport a few times, bound to have some fool rear-end you.

dmeehan

enterprise wrote:

Hey we have all been moaning (rightly so) about the standards of Irish driving - I would include cyclists in that.

How many times have you been crossing a road with a green man when a cyclist comes whizzing by against a red light you nearly knocking you down?

I've seen it with trams as well - afaik If I see a tram approaching, I wait until it passes. Waiting 10 seconds aint going to kill you (excuse the pun!)

from todays indo

Drivers told to 'cop on' at Luas points
DRIVERS must stop playing "Russian Roulette" with Luas traffic lights, Fine Gael Transport spokesperson Olivia Mitchell urged yesterday after a second crash with a tram in Dublin city centre in a 24-hour period.

Link to story

vinnyfitz

Amazing!
It seems not a single car sacrificed itself in front of a Luas this morning! Is this a record?

sliabh

vinnyfitz wrote:

Amazing!
It seems not a single car sacrificed itself in front of a Luas this morning! Is this a record?

No, most of the trams are out of action so drivers had a hard time finding one to dash in front of

therecklessone

sliabh wrote:

No, most of the trams are out of action so drivers had a a hard time finding out to dash in front of

Villain

Should have built a metro, or educate Irish drivers, first option while more expensive would probably be easier to achieve.

sliabh

irish1 wrote:

Should have built a metro, or educate Irish drivers, first option while more expensive would probably be easier to achieve.

And it's a better solution long term. With all the petty penny pinching discussions going on you would swear we were still back in the 80's when they couldn't afford to fill in the potholes!

thejollyrodger

The driving around dublin and in Ireland generally is poor. I cant belive that child cycling along the LUAS track like that. If anything happened to him the parents would be looking for compo straightaway, instead of minding the child and obeying rules of the road.

There is a serious amount of people on the road who either dont know what the yellow box is for or just ignore it. The LUAS incidents just highlight the incredibly bad driving in Ireland.

Hagar

If they strung all the potholes together we would have the makings of a damn fine metro.

FX Meister

I'm sure under Irish law they are entitled to compo anyway. At a school where my ma worked a couple of ballymun thugs climbed onto the roof and dropped bricks through the glass ceiling in the library. One of the retards then fell through a skylight running away and broke his leg. He sued the school.

Jim

FX Meister wrote:

I'm sure under Irish law they are entitled to compo anyway. At a school where my ma worked a couple of ballymun thugs climbed onto the roof and dropped bricks through the glass ceiling in the library. One of the retards then fell through a skylight running away and broke his leg. He sued the school.

Quality.

dazberry

Another cyclist decided to nip across the Luas this evening - that was an experience - experiencing a Luas on full brake with the combined weight of 150? people - sliding along the tracks - crazy.

D.

sliabh

dazberry wrote:

Another cyclist decided to nip across the Luas this evening - that was an experience - experiencing a Luas on full brake with the combined weight of 150? people - sliding along the tracks - crazy.

D.

Can you imagine a cyclist getting sued for causing 150 cases of whiplash!

Hagar

Has anybody seen any ads etc on TV giving the general public/ road users information on how to behave on the roads with respect to the Luas.?
Has anybody got the most recent copy of Rules of the Road with any specific info re the Luas?
Has there been widespread newspaper ads giving information to the public?

Did I miss all this?

daymobrew

FX Meister wrote:

I'm sure under Irish law they are entitled to compo anyway. At a school where my ma worked a couple of ballymun thugs climbed onto the roof and dropped bricks through the glass ceiling in the library. One of the retards then fell through a skylight running away and broke his leg. He sued the school.

A guy got compo from Irish Rail when a train severed part of his arm or leg which was across the tracks. Sounds reasonable from this info but the guy was drunk and passed out AND had been told my IR staff multiple times over a period of time to keep away from the tracks.
The judge found that he was a certain percentage negligible (and IR the rest). He awarded the guy a certain amount compensation but it was reduced according to the percentage. I think he ended up getting about 15k. IR objected strongly, and rightly so. IR was considered negligible for not having an high enough fence (it was 5 or 6 feet).

MrPudding

Hagar wrote:

Has anybody seen any ads etc on TV giving the general public/ road users information on how to behave on the roads with respect to the Luas.?
Has anybody got the most recent copy of Rules of the Road with any specific info re the Luas?
Has there been widespread newspaper ads giving information to the public?

Did I miss all this?

For fcuks sake. First of all, have you seen the size of them? If people don't have enough sense to work out that you need to avoid getting hit by them then they deserve to get hit by them. I seem to remember plenty of ads in the papers prior to the launch warning people for watch out for them. I don’t get ant Irish TV channels so I can’t comment on that. I have seen warning signs on the road as well.

How to behave on the road with respect to Luas can be summed up quite easily, “stay out of it’s fcuking way!”

MrP

sliabh

daymobrew wrote:

A guy got compo from Irish Rail when a train severed part of his arm or leg which was across the tracks...
The judge found that he was a certain percentage negligible (and IR the rest).

IIRC he was fund to be 80% responsible for his injuries. I always felt that IR should have countersued as well for disruption to their business, trauma to their staff, washing down the rail line, etc. After all he was 80% responsible for that as well.

He would have walked (or hobbled) away with nothing.

seamus

Hagar wrote:

Has anybody seen any ads etc on TV giving the general public/ road users information on how to behave on the roads with respect to the Luas.?

I don't recall ever getting any kind of education in school as regards how to act towards trains. In fact, the only kind of ad I've ever seen is the recent one about closing the gates. As Mr Pudding says, it's a big thing on the road. It doesn't require any education. The laws of physics which most of us become pretty aware of by the time we were six years old still apply - Big thing, get out of its way.

Has anybody got the most recent copy of Rules of the Road with any specific info re the Luas?

The LUAS is the least of the ROAR's worries. We need a modern one that correctly deals with motorways, dual carraigeways, signal-controlled roundabouts, other vehicles (the current book contains shockingly little information for car drivers about how to react to other types of vehicle, and how other road users should interact with cars/each other), as well as many other things.

Has there been widespread newspaper ads giving information to the public?

Yes, actually.

As much as I hate to think about it something needs to be done about cyclists in this country, in the way of education and/or licensing and/or testing. The standard and attitude of cyclists in this country has experienced a shocking decline in recent years, and not just towards the LUAS. Motorists aren't great either, but drivers aren't any worse than they were 10 years ago. There's just more of them now. There are more cyclists too, and way more of them that are a danger to themselves and other traffic.

Hagar

Forgive my ignorance, I'm a Dubliner who has lived outside Dublin for 5 years so I haven't been reading the Evening Herald or whatever. I have only recently started commuting back to Dublin.

Are the rules of the road simply based on "if it's bigger than you, get out of the way" ?
If so, must small cars yield to bigger cars who in turn yield to bigger cars who yield to vans who yield to trucks?
This sounds like the law of the jungle to me.
What about when the first Luas hits a Calor Gas truck? Then we'll all have something to write about... It's only a matter of time.

BTW is there a "Kick me" sign on my back?

seamus

Hagar wrote:

Are the rules of the road simply based on "if it's bigger than you, get out of the way" ?
If so, must small cars yield to bigger cars who in turn yield to bigger cars who yield to vans who yield to trucks?
This sounds like the law of the jungle to me.
What about when the first Luas hits a Calor Gas truck? Then we'll all have something to write about... It's only a matter of time.

No, but the LUAS is a separate lane, essentially. When crossing any lane, you must give way to approaching traffic on that lane, i.e. "Get out of the way". This applies to all traffic, except pedestrians. So the child on the bike is in the wrong. If his parents had educated him correctly, he either wouldn't have crossed when the LUAS approached, or he would have cycled safely to the other side of the road. I had to laugh at panicking and dropping the bike - surely it would have been quicker to stay on the bike, than to panic, drop the bike, then fall over?

What age was this idiot child? Anyone?

A Dub in Glasgo

Hagar wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, I'm a Dubliner who has lived outside Dublin for 5 years so I haven't been reading the Evening Herald or whatever. I have only recently started commuting back to Dublin.

Are the rules of the road simply based on "if it's bigger than you, get out of the way" ?
If so, must small cars yield to bigger cars who in turn yield to bigger cars who yield to vans who yield to trucks?
This sounds like the law of the jungle to me.
What about when the first Luas hits a Calor Gas truck? Then we'll all have something to write about... It's only a matter of time.

The rules of the road will state

1. You must stop at traffic light if the light is displaying a red. It will not say 'At sight of a red traffic light, accelerate and pass said traffic light at red'.

2. You must only enter a yellow box junction if your route ahead is clear. It will not say 'Park your car in the yellow box because you don't want anyone else getting past you'

If you obey those two simple and basic rules, you will have no problem with the LUAS

sliabh

seamus wrote:

No, but the LUAS is a separate lane, essentially.

There are some spots there where the Luas shares a lane with road traffic, and not just for crossing lanes. I can think of an instance on Abbey street, by the street that runs towards the hapenny bridge.

seamus wrote:

When crossing any lane, you must give way to approaching traffic on that lane, i.e. "Get out of the way". This applies to all traffic, except pedestrians. So the child on the bike is in the wrong. If his parents had educated him correctly, he either wouldn't have crossed when the LUAS approached, or he would have cycled safely to the other side of the road.

AFAIK this incident happend at what is essentially an unguarded level crossing. There is no other way road users interact with the Luas in Milltown

Gurgle

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The rules of the road will state

1. You must stop at traffic light if the light is displaying a red. It will not say 'At sight of a red traffic light, accelerate and pass said traffic light at red'.

2. You must only enter a yellow box junction if your route ahead is clear. It will not say 'Park your car in the yellow box because you don't want anyone else getting past you'

If you obey those two simple and basic rules, you will have no problem with the LUAS

Maybe a public information campaign titled 'Trains can't swerve to avoid you' is needed ?
Apparently that piece of information isn't obvious to the average dublin driver.

BrianD

AFAIK this incident happend at what is essentially an unguarded level crossing. There is no other way road users interact with the Luas in Milltown

There are many misinformed politicians (particularly from the PDs for some reason) calling for extra barriers on the Luas including, unbelievably, level crossings. Good old nanny state stuff and rather ridiculous. For the record the presence of a guarded level crossing would not have prevented this stupid kid from cycling ON the tracks. Unless he was actually on the paved road crossing it is pretty difficult to cycle on the tracks on the Green Line.

Duckjob

Hagar wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, I'm a Dubliner who has lived outside Dublin for 5 years so I haven't been reading the Evening Herald or whatever. I have only recently started commuting back to Dublin.

Are the rules of the road simply based on "if it's bigger than you, get out of the way" ?
If so, must small cars yield to bigger cars who in turn yield to bigger cars who yield to vans who yield to trucks?
This sounds like the law of the jungle to me.
What about when the first Luas hits a Calor Gas truck? Then we'll all have something to write about... It's only a matter of time.

BTW is there a "Kick me" sign on my back?

The ROTD that I studied 10 years ago stated regarding right-of-way: "If in doubt, play safe, yield"

If this basis level of cop-on and common sense dies off on our roads, we're all fecked.

Hagar

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

2. You must only enter a yellow box junction if your route ahead is clear. It will not say 'Park your car in the yellow box because you don't want anyone else getting past you'

I agree that stopping on a box juction is not only illegal but stupid.
Let's not forget however the purpose of this law, it was to leave the road clear so that other vehicles could proceed un-impeded when the lights changed. I don't really think anyone anticipated a tram speeding into the junction with neither the means nor the intention of stopping if it was blocked.
If the trams are going to act as trains they should be treated as trains and proper level crossing junctions installed. I think motorists would respect these. Even with the prevailing poor standards of driving we seldom hear of accidents at level crossings.

BrianD

That's ridulous! Level crossing gates at tram crossings??? A tram is not a train and does not "behave" as one! Anyone breaking a red light can reasonably expect to be hit by another vehicle which will do as much, if not more damage, as a tram travelling at 50kmh. As it happens, incidents at railway crossings are not an unusual occurence in this country

A tram has a means of stopping and stopping fast, if a car is already sitting in a yellow box the tram waits till it clears and then proceeds on its way. A tram can not avoid a car that suddenly breaks a red light and crosses its path. The current situation is perfectly adequate and requires no changes. What is required is more public information and education on the subject. The unfortunate people involved in the incidents this week are in bizarre way probably providing part of this education!

I read somewhere, that international experience suggests that a new light rail system will clain six lives in its first year of operation through various incidents. Let's hope that this will not be the case in Dublin. I believe that in general the tram lines have been introduced relatively problem free. We have to expect various incidents will occur as everybody gets used to their presence. Calling for level crossings and barriers is not the way forward as it yet again dulls the responsibilities of road users.

sliabh

BrianD wrote:

The current situation is perfectly adequate and requires no changes. What is required is more public information and education on the subject.

I agree totally with the first point, but I'd add that a bit more enforcement could help the second.

BrianD wrote:

I read somewhere, that international experience suggests that a new light rail system will clain six lives in its first year of operation through various incidents.

After remembering what a friend told me about the Heuston light rail system I did a quick google on "heuston light rail accidents" and found this chronicle of woe. They had 58 accidents by August after the system started running in January.

The 58th accident sounds pretty familiar too, woman breaks red light and is hit by train.

BrianD

Enforcement would be welcome.

The only good thing about these accidents is that it gives the media back their stick to beat the Luas. The got years out of demonising the system and then had to stop once it started and the public took to it like a duck to water. No doubt some media outlet will start its chronical of woe here ...