Is it time RTE got off their ass?

Round Cable

I was just looking at the Uk TV licence, for 121 pounds you get the BBC channels and access to freeview digital, in Ireland for 102 pounds You get RTE and a crap analouge signal......

I've decided to show the differences between RTE and the BBC.

BBC
6 Channels
Ad-free
True Widescreen
BBC1+2 Logoless

RTE
DOGGED to bits, The Den being good evedence.
No widescreen (By this I mean half hearthed 14:9-half Widescreen, they are cheating widescreen owners by loosing the sides of the picture, 4:3 owners by having black bars at the top and bottom, look how well it works on digital with the BBC, everybody wins0
Ads (I've told before that this is a small country, so ads are nessisary,well for the smaller countries the programme rights are cheaper, so..........)
The only way to have their channels in digital is to pay sky, ntl or chorus.

Come on RTE you're stuck two decades in the past, I believe that we should be given the choice to pay the British licence, just look at what you would get instead.

John R

Round Cable wrote:

Come on RTE you're stuck two decades in the past, I believe that we should be given the choice to pay the British licence, just look at what you would get instead.

You do have that choice; move to Britian.

icdg

BBC: 20 million licence fee payers
RTE: 1 million licence fee payers.

RTE really haven't a hope of matching the service given by the BBC. And yet we do get good value out of them: RTE One, RTE Two, TG4, RTE Radio 1, RTE Radio 2FM, RTE Lyric FM, RTE Radio na Gaeltachta, RTE.ie, Music and Arts, etc.

I think RTE serves us well anyways..

Round Cable

icdg wrote:

RTE: 1 million licence fee payers.

Is that all that can be bothered to pay?

Of your list the only thing I find good is TG4, does the TV licence pay for radio? I know there was a radio licence at one time, while I'll admit there is nothing wrong with the radio, it's just the TV channels directly under their control.

BuffyBot

Is that all that can be bothered to pay?

How many households do you think there are in Ireland?

Round Cable

1.5 million.

Round Cable

Round Cable wrote:

1.5 million.

population 4.5 million or therabouts and you reckon theres only an average of three people per household??
That doesn't sound right.

Also remember that 121 pounds sterling is nearly €200 Euro and our €100 fee is only half that at about £60stg or so.

leeroybrown

Earthman wrote:

Also remember that 121 pounds sterling is nearly €200 Euro and our €100 fee is only half that at about £60stg or so.

What planet are you on Earthman? The last time I paid a TV license it was €150. Afaik the license fee is currently €152 (or approx £102 STG as Round Cable points out).

In my view the BBC provide the best all round quality of TV on the planet. To suggest the RTÉ should be able to provide a similar quality of coverage with far less money is optimistic to say the least. That said, I definitely agree that RTÉ could certainly give the license fee paying public a better return on it's money by managing the stations affairs better.

leeroybrown

leeroybrown wrote:

What planet are you on Earthman? The last time I paid a TV license it was €150. Afaik the license fee is currently €152 (or approx £102 STG as Round Cable points out)

Whoops perhaps I haven't paid that fee yet :rolleyes:
Thats been the fee since january 2004? and it doesn't all go to RTÉ,I stand corrected though,I pay my licence fee monthly-interest free


Now getting back to the question asked , ie whether we should get as much for that as they do in the UK.Being realistic you have to ask the question what effect would the setting up of 3 or 4 extra RTÉ satelite stations have on that pool of funds and programme quality?

grumpytrousers

Aye - people are comparing apples with orchards here. give or take half a million households, or even €50 on a license fee, that still doesn't amount to a hill of beans when compared with what the BBC can (and does) produce.

The reason the BBC is mad for all these digital doo-dahs is that it's government policy there that the analogue signal be switched off by 2010, and thus it's in their best interests to move the punters over to digital in some make/shape/form ASAP. It's a happy coincidence that this embracing of digital media gives you widescreen broadcasting.

Ads (I've told before that this is a small country, so ads are nessisary,well for the smaller countries the programme rights are cheaper, so..........)

So....what - exactly? Your point, caller? Yes, rights are cheaper for Ireland than the UK - that's not the f***ing same as free. If you want to see loads of those quirky eastern european 'cartoons', then that's what an ad free RTE will mean!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cabaal

Years ago did'ent RTE go about trying to stop adverts during The Den but companies complained and brought them to court about it, I think at the very least this should be done.

As for license fee, I resent having to pay it I don't even watch RTE, ok I do but I only watch there streaming news on the net,
Why should I have to pay €152 for the honour of owning a TV if I don't even watch any of RTE's channels?

Mossy Monk

so its €152 atm post office sent a kind reminder that one needs to be bought

grumpytrousers

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

ah but sure jaysus, if RTE went and spent the entire license fee on stuff that wasn't commercially viable, the other half of this board would have kittens. As it stands, most of us whinge that 'I hate paying a license to RTE, all they show is stuff like friends, ER, and the news is crap, no fit totty on the Weather, the den isn't as good as it used to be....'

now - consider if they put all the license fee into 'worthy' stuff like documentaries on bolivian nipple tweaking, kurdish chant rituals and a 8 hour deconstruction of the works of Gore Vidal, the other half would start up with 'I'm not paying for that ****e, bring back ER, what happened to those nice transparent doo-hickeys they had on the screen etc'...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Round Cable

Earthman wrote:

Now getting back to the question asked , ie whether we should get as much for that as they do in the UK.Being realistic you have to ask the question what effect would the setting up of 3 or 4 extra RTÉ satelite stations have on that pool of funds and programme quality?

Well a few more channels would be no harm, A childrens channel (The Den), a sports channel for their 17 premiership matches, GAA and perhaps a documentary channel although this would take a lot out of Network 2.....

grumpytrousers wrote:

So....what - exactly? Your point, caller? Yes, rights are cheaper for Ireland than the UK - that's not the f***ing same as free. If you want to see loads of those quirky eastern european 'cartoons', then that's what an ad free RTE will mean!

What are you talking about free? Just comparing between the Uk and Ireland, RTE being the BBC and UTV/C4/five (comersial) with TV3, it's like saying that the BBC should have ads, TV3 is being put in an unfair possition. Having ads is only a small problem with RTE (in my opinion), if the UK TV licence brings in 30 times more money than the Irish one, then the programming rights should 30 times cheaper here, well....

medja

RTE is bad value for money, their radio service is 50% paid for by the licence fee, the likes of Pat Kenny have 5 producers, and at least 8 more researchers and broadcast assistances. All this to produce ten hours of mediocre radio a week. Around the country one person (two if you’re lucky) has to do all those jobs and more for very poor pay. And regularly the locals sound a lot more interesting.

As for TG4 RTE have no direct control and TG4 was supposed to get its freedom from the plantation of donnybrook years ago. It has had to be lean and creative. Even it’s English language purchases have a bit of thought put into them.

Finally (for now) On a Saturday before Euro 2004 the Swiss were playing some other country in a friendly. The result was given on Radio one sport. 10 minutes later there was a correction. The wrong information had been given out as the BBC world service had made a mistake, so why bother listening to RTE when you can go directly to the source of much of their information.

grumpytrousers

if the UK TV licence brings in 30 times more money than the Irish one, then the programming rights should 30 times cheaper here, well....

And you're absolutely sure of that, are you? Or is this something you've made up. I notice your use of the word 'should' which tends to be the mark of one whose just plucked a 'fact' out of thin air!!!

I suppose what I'm trying to tease out of you (and with little success!) is 'What the hell d'you want?'

The very nature of our past comes to haunt us in things like this. On one hand we're so close to the UK geographically that we find it hard to fathom how come, for instance, they have such a well developed media infrastructure. The answer is simple.

The BBC has been doing what it's been doing for years more than RTE, they've had longer to make mistakes, longer to get things right, longer to plan the roll-out of new services.

And the chances are their Lesbian and Gay Programming (Left Handed Dwarves) Division has the kind of budget the RTE Light entertainment division dreams of...

Us, on the other side of the Irish sea, take one look at this and immediately wonder why that shower of bell-ends in Montrose can't do the same. Now I grant you, there's plenty wrong with RTE. The shameless cross promotion, the cringe-inducing self congratulation, not to mention the outrageous financial excesses - for instance the relentless re-branding.

But, Round Cable, you don't propose a solution - merely whinge at the status quo. Getting rid of the license fee will mean an immediate fall in revenue for RTE, that won't be recovered. First to go will be the non-ratings-winners. Kiss goodbye current affairs, homemade documentaries and the like, and hello to lower production values in homegrown stuff that does stay.

giving TV3 a share of the license fee won't necessarily make things better either. TV3 is owned by mainly foreign interests who have, if memory serves, far deeper pockets than RTE have, but whose primary concern is RATINGS OVER CONTENT - i.e. please the advertisers, no need for the same level of public service that RTE provides (whatever level that is!).

AFAIK (and i stand ready to be corrected on this) TV3 hasn't come near to fulfilling half the promises it made when it applied for the license way back in the mid nineties, but they know they can act with relative impunity in that the government simply never wants a replay of the Century Radio affair. Chucking a windfall at them won't guarantee a move from their (rather sucessful) cheap and cheerful program output...

Round Cable

grumpytrousers wrote:

And you're absolutely sure of that, are you? Or is this something you've made up. I notice your use of the word 'should' which tends to be the mark of one whose just plucked a 'fact' out of thin air!!!

No I'm not sure of that at all, hence I used the word 'should', and I doubt RTE are going to reveal that info either....

grumpytrousers wrote:

But, Round Cable, you don't propose a solution - merely whinge at the status quo. Getting rid of the license fee will mean an immediate fall in revenue for RTE, that won't be recovered. First to go will be the non-ratings-winners. Kiss goodbye current affairs, homemade documentaries and the like, and hello to lower production values in homegrown stuff that does stay.

Well I'd like to think of it as complaining about a crappy service, why would you get rid of the license fee? TV3 is an example of this, crappy programming, if RTE had no TV license it would be the same, as you point out, which further supports my 'this is unfair to TV3' thing, lets face it RTE do some things correctly, lastest US programming, which is shown before Sky, but again it's because of its unfair possition. And produce the worst **** of Irish programmes.

As for solutions; get off their asses and do something to rectify the hole they are in, are they still making losses? Another would be to give three companies a chance to start Irish TV channels, after two years whoever is doing the best job gets the licence fee, however this healty competition is unlikely. Final suggestion would be to scrap RTE altogether and start fresh, clearing out some usless presenters who are eating your TV liecence would be no harm either........

In responce to your last two paragraphs, TV3 has fallen short, but no wonder.......

Round Cable

Round Cable wrote:

lets face it RTE do some things correctly, lastest US programming, which is shown before Sky, but again it's because of its unfair possition. And produce the worst **** of Irish programmes.

Unless you can show us that RTÉ spend more on US programming than on their home productions you are again generalising without showing any proof .

Round Cable

Earthman wrote:

Unless you can show us that RTÉ spend more on US programming than on their home productions you are again generalising without showing any proof .

I never said they spend more money on US programming, just made the point that their home programming for the most part is unwatchable, that being said 500,000 watch Fair City AKA Fairly ****ty. It's unlikely that who has that info about spending is going to release it.

tipperaryboy

Correct!RTE is crap..all they show is cheap crap programmes!
R.I.P RTE & Welcome In The UK channels!

DMC

Father Ted was right.....

"These are small, but those out there, are far away....." :rolleyes:

Flukey

You cannot compare the BBC and RTE on the same level. The BBC has massive resources behind it. For its size RTE boxes well above its weight.

Round Cable

Flukey wrote:

You cannot compare the BBC and RTE on the same level.

Well I feel if they were we might get a better RTE, it's our low expectations that has it the way it is.

All I want is three simple thing from RTE, 1: widescreen option, 2 DTT or a FTV card scheme for Sky 3 Remove the oversized DOG's

Otherwise it would be quite a good service one I wouldn't mind paying a TV licence for.

Mike 1972

Ive heard this "RTE has to have licence + Ads and still cant produce programmes of as high a standard as the Beeb because UK has 14 times the Irish population" argument a thousand times before but it doesnt explain How TG4 can produce programming of a far higher standard than RTE on a tiny fraction of its operating budget.

TG4 is the only Irish station with any decent programming and Im not even a Gaelic Speaker !

As for the Friends and ER Vs "bolivian nipple tweaking, kurdish chant rituals and a 8 hour deconstruction of the works of Gore Vidal" argument well It may have escaped your attention that RTE run two television networks !
The BBC generally put most of their "populist" output on BBC 1 (and 3) and BBC2 (and 4 ) are reserved for more highbrow material RTE could easily do the same

Quite frankly though Id rather see RTE devoting their efforts to improving the standard of programming on thier existing two channels and making their services available FTA on all digital platforms before wasting money on setting up more channels

On the question of whether RTE is value for money personally I never bought a TV licence when I lived in the Republic (I was caught once but they got surname wrong on the summons ) But I took one out as soon as I moved to NI

Elmo

Yes RTÉ should get the arses into gear.

Not only in relation to Digital TV but also in relation to Programme making.

I also think that TV3 need to gets its arse into gear, after all they are their to compeat and so far they have done that.

Both RTE and TV3 have taken the easy route by buying in British soap opears.

We dont not need the licence fee wasted on the promotion of EastEnders or any other brit soap for that matter.

TV3 were set up to compeat with RTE not to become ITV which RTE already compeats with. (TV3 only provides a choice for those of us without access to UTV, most of us have that). For a young channel TV3 is not very different.

RTE need to be told by the BCI, comreg and the Government that FTA DTV must be set up right away.

The BCI needs to get its head out of its arse and realise that they will never be able to licence local and national Sat and cable TV channels, Satanta Sport being the proof of that point. The BCI need to provide a licence to a new National FTA TV company, The BCI need to provide licences to Digital channels not only in the localities but also nationally.

As for RTE's lack of transparancy why not cheak out www.rte.ie/about and download their financial statments for 2003.

Also RTE need to invest in RTE 2 it is currently a waste of space.

Elmo

RTE has to have licence + Ads and still cant produce programmes of as high a standard as the Beeb because UK has 14 times the Irish population

Let us also point out that the BBC has revenue everytime it sell a TV programme to other TV channels around the world. And all the DVD and CD sales for their programming. The BBC make a fortune from some commercial aspects, its just not as obvious as RTE's Advertisements.

But I agree TG4 seem to be able to make alot more good TV then RTE and on a smaller budget.

But I took one out as soon as I moved to NI

When You move up north how many TV and Radio Channels had the BBC. (Lets not count regions and nations)?

It only resently that The BBC has had as many TV channels as they have.

Round Cable

Round Cable wrote:

I never said they spend more money on US programming, just made the point that their home programming for the most part is unwatchable, that being said 500,000 watch Fair City AKA Fairly ****ty. It's unlikely that who has that info about spending is going to release it.

Hang on you said:

lastest US programming, which is shown before Sky, but again it's because of its unfair possition.

meaning that they compete unfairly with TV3 in purchased programmes because of a licence subsidy.

I told you, that you would have to show that RTÉ spend less than the licence fee on their public service programming in order to make a statement like that as if it was fact.
Can you do that? Otherwise you are making unsubstantiated statements as you are unable to rule out the fact that the advertising income generated by the foreign programming pays for it...
If the advertising generated by these programmes is more than their cost and indeed if they produce a profit for RTÉ then your position there doesn't hold at all.

Mike 1972

When You move up north how many TV and Radio Channels had the BBC. (Lets not count regions and nations)?

BBC1 BBC2 BBC Choice (now BBC3) BBC Knowledge (Now BBC4) BBC News 24 BBC Parliament Radios 1 2 3 4 5 Ulster the World Service (and it was available on DTT and Satellite)

But the number channels wasnt really the point It was a question of programming and whether the quality and range of programming justified the licence fee (which at the time I moved was actually higher for the BBC but better value). The fact that I havent bothered to put up an aerial for RTE here but was willing to subscribe to cablelink in Dublin to get BBC proves the point

Mike 1972

Mike 1972 wrote:

The fact that I havent bothered to put up an aerial for RTE here but was willing to subscribe to cablelink in Dublin to get BBC proves the point

You seem to be very much in a minority there though as any time I'm up North, nearly every house where possible has an aerial pointed south.
Theres lots of them in Wales too.

Mike 1972

Minority ???

In my street about a third of the houses have pointed South. I see more $ky dishes than RTE aerials

Thats not been what I've seen when up north then...

Round Cable

Earthman wrote:

I told you, that you would have to show that RTÉ spend less than the licence fee on their public service programming in order to make a statement like that as if it was fact.

I can't do that because I don't have the figures what I'm basing that on is the fact that RTE Show the following programmes US:

7th Heaven
CSI
Friends
Scrubs
24

TV3 having nothing as good as this.

Elmo and Mike 1972 agree completly TG4 do so many things correctly

Home Programming
Underdogs
Amu le Hector

US Programming
The O.C.
Cold Case
Nip/Tuck (in 16:9)

This plus an unannoying DOG, Irelands best channel by a several miles

Elmo

BBC1 BBC2 BBC Choice (now BBC3) BBC Knowledge (Now BBC4) BBC News 24 BBC Parliament Radios 1 2 3 4 5 Ulster the World Service (and it was available on DTT and Freeview)

Ah but the number of stations are important.

The BBC have a bigger licence fee and up to 1998 (when did the digital stations start?) only had 2 TV Channels as do RTE currently, and have more people who pay the licence. So thus you are going to have to take in to account how many TV Channels they had in the UK.

1998
BBC 1 = RTE 1
BBC 2 = RTE 2

BBC Radio 1 - RTE Radio 1
BBC Radio 2 - RTE Radio 2 (2fm)
BBC Radio 3 - RTE Radio 3 (RnaG)
BBC Radio 4 - RTE Radio 4 (Lyric fm)
BBC Radio 5 - Atlantic 252/Sports Talk (Currently Radio 1)

I personally think with the amount of new TV stations the BBC are putting pressure on themselfs to produce good show on all of the stations.

Currently I feel that the BBC's standard of Good TV is on its way down. The only show that I currently watch on the BBC is "Waking the Dead" and maybe a comedy or two.

And generally speaking the BBC show most of BBC 4, BBC 3 and BBC News 24 on BBC 1 and BBC 2.

TV3 having nothing as good as this.

Corronation Street (Aver 500,000)
Emmerdale (Aver 250,000)
The Royal (Aver 150,000)
Heartbeat (Aver 200,000)
I'm a Celeb (Aver 300,000)
Ant And Dec (Aver 150,000)
Teachers (Granada for C4) (Ave 100,000)
Hell's Kitchen (Ave 150,000)

Vr USA on RTE

7th Heaven (Ave 200,000)
CSI (Ave 250,000)
Friends (Ave 250,000)
Scrubs (Ave 150,000)
24 (Ave 150,000)

And RTE have no access to Granada programming because they own TV3 and sell to TV3 at a cheaper rate. I think TV3 would take viewers over the shows you have mentioned. (Is 7th heaven good??????)

Oh don't forget TV3 american programming

Malcolm in The Middle (150,000)
Sex and the City (200,000)
Will and Grace (150,000)
Buffy (150,000)
Charmed (100,000)


(the numbers in brakets are the average amount of viewers each show gets)


I would get of my high horse but I am but only a lowly paddy from "Eire"

Round Cable

Elmo wrote:

And RTE have no access to Granada programming because they own TV3 and sell to TV3 at a cheaper rate. I think TV3 would take viewers over the shows you have mentioned. (Is 7th heaven good??????)

I wouldn't know I've never seen it, I was just picking big-mane US shows could also have added The Simpsons. All the programmes that do well for TV3 are hardly good, although that wouldn't stop most people. One reason the numbers are so high is perhaps because of the absence of UTV on Sky.

BTW thanks for that link to summerise some facts 2003
RTE made E91M (advertising) E5M (sponcership) E78,615,000 (TV liecence, if it was 150euro for a liecence in 2003, I think it was, it would mean that 524,100 househoulds paid out of 1.4M Census 2002, that's just 1/3)

RTE One + 2FM made a profit, while Network 2 and Radio 1 made a loss.

Home programming cost over E122M, what a waste
Irish programming aquired cost 349,000, this must be their yearly supply of Rus Na Run from TG4.
Foreign aquired programming cost just E23M, not so bad at all.

I costs E25 to brodcast for the year, E11M towards TG4.

After all this a net DEFICIT of E2,144,000.

grumpytrousers

GAH!!! THIS ARGUMENT IS POINTLESS!!!

sorry - i'll calm down. Obviously the 'RTE is crud' gang are gonna stick to their guns. Likewise the 'they're going okay' bunch. However, we seem, on this thread, to be perpetually moving the goalposts and any objectivity is gone out the window.

(Actually, in TV discussions, this always happens, so fret not!)

Y'see, it all depends on how we measure 'good' service. Some of us want decent homegrown programmes covering a broad range of topics and a bit of imported populist stuff. Some of us want *nowt* but imported American/UK toss. Some of us want those annoying BUGS removed from the screen and a decent digital service.

Nothing unreasonable in any of those - all equally valid viewpoints. But I'm not sure how much 'RTE getting off their arses' can really address all of them....show me a definition of 'decent' that ain't subjective. I haven't even mentioned the nightmare of doing research to find out just how *annoying* those bugs are...

When TV stations try and justify their output, they'll tend to initally point to critical acclaim. Especially if it's homegrown. In fact, you can have only 3 people watching a show on RTE and they'll crow about it, so long as
a) the three people were TV revieweres
b) they're all nice about it in the paper on Saturday

However, failing that, TV stations will tend to justify showing any old garbage on the grounds that it's what the public want. 'How can it be 'bad' if the public are watching it in such numbers?' goes the mantra.

(My own highbrow answer will tend to be 'Because there are a lot of idiots out there' )

ultimately, RTE has the collossal problems of being constantly 'marked' against BBC, whether they like it or not. 'BBC manages to do xyz...why can't RTE'. but more importantly, RTE actually has to compete with BBC, which the Beeb don't *really* have to do (except mainly in NI) , i.e. compete with RTE, and even if they did, wouldn't really bother 'em that much - 'I say Tarquin, shove on that Kielty chap, the bogtrotters in the colonies are getting uppity'.

Moreover, when RTE is done competing against BBC, there's still UTV/CH4 and all the satellites. As markets get more fragmented, and viewers more disloyal/discerning it becomes harder and harder to drive the advertising revenues up to improve the service...

Mind you, that tosser Ryan is well overpaid...:D

Elmo

Home programming cost over E122M, what a waste

I semi Agree with you and semi disagree with you.

On the side of Home Produced Programming: -

1. Employment, which gives money to people to go out and buy stuff and have spin off industries. (The economics of it all)
2. Some very good shows with some very good orginal Ideas, i.e The Resturant, The Clinic, The Panel, The Des Bishop Work Experience, etc.
3. A sports service for homegrown sport, Rubgy and GAA mainly.
4. A full news and current affairs service, Prime Time, Q&A, The week in politics. (On both Radio And TV)
5. Documentry series such as WYB, True Lifes and Arts Lifes which are not attractive to the commerical broadcasters.

On the bad side of Home Produced Programming: -

1. Big names such as Pat Kenny, Ryan Tub, Gerry Ryan etc. getting paid too much.
2. Some very bad shows such as Winning Streak, Fame And Fortune, The Lyrics Board (even if it was taken up by so many countries), Celeb Farm (which was sold to france as far as I know or at least they did something similar), Telly Bingo etc.
3. A sports service which doesn't cover small domestic games yet gives coverage to international sports which could easily have coverage over on commercial channels such as TV3.
4. The Big Bow Wow (Lets not say anymore) other then the lack of other home produced Drama lets bad drama cloud the good aspects of RTE.
5. Lack of air time given to young Irish musicans, except at 11:30 on a Tuesday night with Songs from another Room.

RTE made E91M (advertising)

I would have thought it was higher then this when you take into account all of their stations, radio and TV.

Foreign aquired programming cost just E23M, not so bad at all.

Indeed very low, I am surprised that TV3 cann't match that. I guess their too busy buying Granda programming.

Y'see, it all depends on how we measure 'good' service.

Indeed but we can all be realistic and realise that a "good" service is one which provides Important programming such as News and Current Affairs and also provides a choice to viewer with other programming.

In a dream Ireland RTE Would provide: -

1. A full news and current affairs service (which it basically does already)
2. Sporting events such as Irish Domestic Soccer, Irish Athetics etc.
3. A platform for Irish Entertainers, and not just on the late late show
4. A would provide a really alternative Irish service on N2, (Lets face it if we all want we can go out and buy a sat dish and pay up good money for cheap american imports.)

Round Cable

I agree with you not all of the E122 is a waste, news and current affairs RTE are true professionals when it comes to this area, I'd have to say even better than most Brittish news services.

On your list of good shows the only one I liked was The Des Bishop Work Experience, he himself was terribly annoying, however It was a good show, the retaurant is Ok, and the others I don't like.

The Lyrics Board should not be allowed on television, that show says something about RTE and how they resurrected it.

Big names should go get no-bodies with personality for a fraction of the price.

Sports, they don't do too bad there either, and Setanta are going to show some teams from the eircom league next year. Although while metioning Setanta it's an even bigger joke than RTE, sky viewers it's not worth a euro a month. Five minutes into the Liverpool match the had to go back to studio, they don't have an exciting panel for discussion, no widescreen, a badly used scorebord, it seems they really are Ireland fifth TV channel.

Elmo

On your list of good shows the only one I liked was The Des Bishop Work Experience, he himself was terribly annoying, however It was a good show, the retaurant is Ok, and the others I don't like.

2. Some very good shows with some very good orginal Ideas, i.e The Resturant, The Clinic, The Panel, The Des Bishop Work Experience, etc.

Y'see, it all depends on how we measure 'good' service.

While you may not like The Clinic, you cann't honestly find fault with it. I was a well produced show, with good young Irish Talented Actors who all deserve a brake.

The Panel, Ok i will give you Fiona Looney and I will not stop you if you feel like shotting her at any time.

DMC

Okie doke, we are arguing about about taste; one mans **** is another mans treasure etc...

\end.