Motorway Construction Dublin - Cork

thejollyrodger

what is the current state of motorway construction between Dublin and Cork... how many existing projects have been started/completed between the two cities and how are left ?? Ive lost track


Did the M7 Portlaoise - Castletown get the go ahead yet ?

M7 Portlaoise - Castletown link

Has the N7 Nenagh-Limerick Motorway being completed ?

N7 Nenagh Limerick map

The Naas-Dublin Dual Carriageway Widening got the green light on the 14th of July and should be completed by Summer 2006.

Do things go to pants after you get past mosterieven ?

jank

Fermoy motorway has begun construction as far as i know
will be ready around 2006 but there is still a long way to go

Victor

thejollyrodger wrote:

Did the M7 Portlaoise - Castletown get the go ahead yet ?M7 Portlaoise - Castletown link

I think it has to go to public enquiry still.

thejollyrodger wrote:

Has the N7 Nenagh-Limerick Motorway being completed ?N7 Nenagh Limerick map

I don't think it's started yet.

thejollyrodger wrote:

Do things go to pants after you get past mosterieven ?

Well you have the Portlaoise Bypass, so when the Monasterevin Bypass is finished, it will be motorway/dual-carriageway from Portlaoise - Dundalk.

http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/SchemeActivity-2004/
http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/NationalPrimaryRoadSchemesthroughStatutoryApprovalProcess/
http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/MajorRoadSchemesinPlanning/

mike65

The Cahir by-pass is largely done, just a question of tidying up the ends and
painting some lines I think.

Mike.

gurramok

mike65 wrote:

The Cahir by-pass is largely done, just a question of tidying up the ends and
painting some lines I think.

Mike.

Well once past monasterevin on the way to Cork the road is not of motorway standard as far down south as cork itself.
I's wish they'd hurry up with a Mitchelstown by-pass, must be a nightmare living there with all the pass thru traffic.

thejollyrodger

Thanks Victor!

Mitchelstown by-pass,

Now that must be a nightmare!!


They are working on a stretch of the Portlaoise Limerick N7 at the moment arent they, Nenagh i think...

WezzyB

mike65 wrote:

The Cahir by-pass is largely done, just a question of tidying up the ends and
painting some lines I think.

Mike.

You must mean the Cashel bypass.
I drove by Cashel this evening from Tipp towards Dublin and from the view I got from my car it looks like the Link to the Tipp road is fully surfaced as is the Northern end of the road.

mike65

WezzyB wrote:

You must mean the Cashel bypass.
I drove by Cashel this evening from Tipp towards Dublin and from the view I got from my car it looks like the Link to the Tipp road is fully surfaced as is the Northern end of the road.

Doh! You are of course right (I have a habit of confusing the two ditto Clonmel and Carlow).

The dual carriagway from Water Grasshill up to Fermoy is being marked out while the Fermoy by-pass is now seriously underway on the southside of the river.

Mike.

jank

hopefully the fermoy bypass will done asap, usually once the projects get underway the get done ahead of schedule so it may be done by late 2005?

the M7 Portlaoise - Castletown should get the go ahead anytime soon now too

De Rebel

thejollyrodger wrote:

what is the current state of motorway construction between Dublin and Cork... how many existing projects have been started/completed between the two cities and how are left ??

Brace yourself.....

First off, there is no plan to build a motorway from Dublin to Cork. Their is a plan to build a motorway from Naas to Culahill and a short 18km section bypassing Fermoy. The rest is dual carriage way of varying standards (some wide median, some narrow median, and certainly all of this with a speed limit well below that of a motorway - this is a critical point)

Secondly, be aware of the subtle use of language by Minnie B. "Minister Says All Sections of Dublin-Cork Motorway {sic} Complete or Being Built by 2007" So what does this mean. It means that if the last sections commence construction in December 2007 Minnie will not have lied. Of course, that means that that project(s) will drag on until 2009 at least. By which time it will be almost time to start again. So lets look at the sections.

26km - Dublin to Naas - the prospect of a motorway appears to have been forgotten. Instead of building the M7 on a new alignment as originally conceived, we are being given the prospect of a widened Naas Dual Carriage way. A 40 year old road getting a make over which is due for completion in 3Q, 2006. 60MPH max. speed limit, reality being a road with an average speed of 30mph for the foreseeable future.

22km - Naas to Kildare - 2 lane motorway complete

23km - Kildare to Portlaoise (aka Monasterevin Bypass)- 2 lane motorway under construction, likely to open 4Q, 2004

10km - Portlaoise bypass - 2 lane motorway Complete

40km - Portlaoise to Culahill - EIS Published, In ABP process, CPO being prepared, Tenders likely in 2005, Completion 2008 at the earliest. PPP scheme. Documentation suggests that this will be built to motorway standard.

85km - Culahill to Fermoy -A glint in Minnie's eye. (with the single exception of the 7kn Cashall bypass, a narrow median Dual Carriageway, speed limit 60km, due to open 4Q, 2004). The rest of it will be lucky to get to EIS/CPO stage in 2004, Completion 2009 at the earliest. Standard currently determined to be "High Quality Dual", presumably a wide median dual carriage way. Max speed 60mph

18km - Fermoy to Rathcormac (incl. Fermoy Bypass)- Motorway under construction, likely to open 2Q, 2007

30km - Rathcormac to Cork - Dual carriage way complete, speed limit 60km, some sections deserving of a significantly lower speed limit.

By my estimates, 113km will be finished to motorway standard, and 141 will be NOT (i.e. dual carriageway of varying standards, not motorway). This will have a significant impact on the average speeds achieved.

By my estimates, 75km is already completed. the additional sections will open as follows: 2004:+23km, 2006:+26km, 2007:+18km, 2008:+40km, 2009:+85km (DV)

The Cork-Dublin Motorway - Its a long way off.

thejollyrodger wrote:

Do things go to pants after you get past mosterieven ?

You can keep your trousers as far as Portlaoise. That appears to be the outer limit of civilization in the opinion of the dept of transport.

sliabh

De Rebel wrote:

Brace yourself.....

26km - Dublin to Naas - the prospect of a motorway appears to have been forgotten. Instead of building the M7 on a new alignment as originally conceived, we are being given the prospect of a widened Naas Dual Carriage way. A 40 year old road getting a make over which is due for completion in 3Q, 2006. 60MPH max. speed limit, reality being a road with an average speed of 30mph for the foreseeable future.

This one is for tender at the moment. It is due to start at the end of the year. The plan is for a fast track construction project of 100 weeks with 7-day a week work. The road is to be raised to a 70mph engineering standard from the existing 50mph standard. This is distinct from the legal speed limit, it's purely what the road is rated for from an engineering point of view (i.e. gradients, lane widths, curvature of corners etc).

I don't know what speed limits they will apply to the new road but thinking back to the project that widened the N7 to 3 lanes into Bewely's Hotel you can expect that the 30mph De Rebel quoted above may be optimistic! :-)

robbie1876

sliabh wrote:

The road is to be raised to a 70mph engineering standard from the existing 50mph standard. This is distinct from the legal speed limit, it's purely what the road is rated for from an engineering point of view (i.e. gradients, lane widths, curvature of corners etc).

Well, we know what will happen here. If you build a road designed for 70mph, people will drive at 70mph on it, giving the gardai a field day with their cameras (ala Tallaght to Ballinteer M50).

Victor

De Rebel wrote:

85km - Culahill to Fermoy -A glint in Minnie's eye. (with the single exception of the 7kn Cashall bypass, a narrow median Dual Carriageway, speed limit 60km, ..... - Rathcormac to Cork - Dual carriage way complete, speed limit 60km,

By "60km" I presume you mean 60mph / 100kmh.:)

De Rebel wrote:

some sections deserving of a significantly lower speed limit.

Yeah, the approach to the Dunkettle interchange and the bridge on the curve in Riverstown (North of Dunkettle) are a bit :eek:

De Rebel wrote:

By my estimates, 113km will be finished to motorway standard, and 141 will be NOT (i.e. dual carriageway of varying standards, not motorway). This will have a significant impact on the average speeds achieved.

You'd be surprised - no more towns.

A perfect journey would be 2h12m on motorway 2h21m as planned, compared to maybe 3 hours at the moment and 3.5-4 hours previously.

dmeehan

it still might get finished before the M50, if the tree-huggers (or whatever they are) in carrickmines have their way :rolleyes:

thejollyrodger

By my estimates, 75km is already completed. the additional sections will open as follows: 2004:+23km, 2006:+26km, 2007:+18km, 2008:+40km, 2009:+85km (DV)

The Cork-Dublin Motorway - Its a long way off.

I hope this is not the case.... Is the motorway building really that slow ? 18km in one year (2007) is pathetic.

So much for the Critical infastructure bill which was meant to hurry everything up...

jank

Read in the examiner that the mitchelstown bypass part of the link is set to begin construction before the end of the year so it looks like that it and the Fermoy bypass should be completted soon after one another.

To be honest the road from there to cashil aint bad and is pretty straight for overtaking at the mo

Ill give an optomistic prediction that the route will be finished by end of 2007

sliabh

jank wrote:

To be honest the road from there to cashil aint bad and is pretty straight for overtaking at the mo

The two main reasons for wanting better roads are speed/capacity and safety. I have been travelling the N7 between Limerick and Dublin regularly now since 1995 and I will be the first to admit that the road standard is vastly improved in that time, even without the promised motorways.

However the NRA statistics are showing that it's the single lane, straight, wide roads, with loads of overtaking potential that are the most dangerous ones. Traffic separation is needed long term.

Lennoxschips

The N8 approach road towards d'tunnel is a dangerous road for high speeds indeed. Steep and windy, and not much faster than taking the old Dublin road either through. A big white elephant.

To be honest, I don't think there is enough demand for a Cork-Dublin motorway. I always thought it was a shame that they didn't just built a new motorway from Portlaoise to somewhere between Thurles, Tipperary town and Limerick (with an access motorway intersecting to Limerick), where it would then take a turn to the south straight down to Mitchelstown and Cork. This one road would have been a Dublin-Cork road, Dublin-Limerick road and Cork-Limerick road all in one, which would have made it viable enough to make the full length of it motorway standard.

But anyway, the dark cloud that is the Dublin-Cork road might have a silver lining. If Iarnrod Eireann get a proper high-comfort 100 mph service going on the Dublin-Cork route it could convert many people to trains. We can only hope.

ChipZilla

sliabh wrote:

However the NRA statistics are showing that it's the single lane, straight, wide roads, with loads of overtaking potential that are the most dangerous ones. Traffic separation is needed long term.

I agree with you there. The stretch of road around Kilcoran (outside Cahir on the Cork side) must be one of the most lethal stretches of road I know. I'll have to find some stats, but I think something like 25 people people have been killed there in the past three years.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2004/0123/1091111012HM1CAHIRCRASH.html

For the subscription-impaired:

Road where four died was 'cause of concern' to NRA



The Co Tipperary road on which members of three generations of the same family lost their lives yesterday had been identified by the National Roads Authority as a cause for concern. Tim O'Brien reports

Four family members, from Glockamara near Mitchelstown in Co Cork, were killed yesterday morning when a truck veered across the road and collided with a van and three other trucks before hitting the family's Audi head-on.

The victims of the accident were named last night as Ms Mary Dalton (71); two of her daughters, Ms Kathleen Quish (47) and Ms Mary Downes (31); and her four-year-old grandson, Robert Downes. Another child, aged six, was taken to Cork University Hospital in a critical condition. Three of the truck drivers were also brought to hospital.

Supt Mary Fitzgerald said: "We believe that the truck that collided with the car was on the wrong side of its road."

The accident happened on a straight, wide stretch of road about three miles south of Cahir, near the Kilcoran Lodge Hotel. The road takes Dublin- and Cork-bound traffic and acts as a bypass for the town. It is due to be bypassed itself as part of the NRA's plans for a motorway between Dublin and Cork.

It was widened and improved in the mid-1990s and is now a 4.5 metre wide, flat, and largely straight stretch of road with good sightlines in each direction. There is a 2.5 metre hard shoulder on each side and the speed limit is 60 m.p.h.

However, the NRA has identified this type of road as a cause for concern precisely because of its "good" characteristics which can, in certain cases, encourage motorists to feel over-confident driving at speed and to believe the width will allow them to overtake with ease.

Yesterday a spokesman for the NRA confirmed such roads were "a cause of concern", adding that plans were in place to bypass this stretch with the new motorway segment between Mitchelstown and Cashel.

Construction is expected to begin in 2006.

Roads of the type on which the accident happened generally do not have a central crash barrier and drivers, when overtaking, can be surprised by an oncoming vehicle that is also overtaking.

Long, straight stretches of road can also lead to a lack of concentration by drivers, causing vehicles to "drift" into oncoming traffic, according to the NRA. When this happens, the resulting crashes are usually among the most severe.

The NRA prefers national roads to be dual carriageways with one lane a designated overtaking lane, coupled with a wide median to separate traffic travelling in opposite directions. The authority also recently adopted a policy of placing a heavy barrier between all opposing traffic flows on all dual carriageways - whether or not they are designated motorways.

Yesterday's accident would appear to echo similar incidents on single carriageway national roads, particularly one on the N11 in Co Wicklow in 1998, where a lorry crossed the white line and crashed into a mini-bus, killing three adults and two schoolchildren.

John R

That section of road would be an ideal candidate for the 2+1 layout that the NRA said they are going to use in some areas. The need for a whole new motorway is questionable, there are no tailbacks or congestion on this section.

De Rebel

sliabh wrote:

However the NRA statistics are showing that it's the single lane, straight, wide roads, with loads of overtaking potential that are the most dangerous ones. Traffic separation is needed long term.

This is very true. Take the Cork to Mallow road as an example. It is an entirely new road, having been built from scratch on a totally new alignment over the last 20 years. There are a few miles of dual carriage way at one end, and a further couple of miles of 2+1 ("slow" lane in one direction). The rest is single carriageway. The road is a failure.

Long sections of it have continuous white line in the centre, and it is not at all unusual to spend long periods driving at 40 miles per hour (or even less) behind a couple of trucks which are stuck following some ould wan in a 92 starlet. There have been some dreadful crashes (including fatalities) on the road, in particular at the (non grade separated) junctions. The boys in blue sit on the sides of the road stinging people who let their frustrations get the better of them and who overtake at speed or over continuous white lines. The Tipperary straights are every bit as bad. The Cork to Mallow road should have been designed and built as a wide median dual carriageway, just as the Cork to Middleton road was, with most of its junctions grade separated.

The Dublin to Cork road should be a motorway from start to finish. Remember a motorway is an entirely different driving environment to even a wide median dual carriageway. Although they share many physical characteristics, the additional restrictions placed on drivers/vehicles/access on a motorway contribute significantly to the safety. There is no way a 2+1 can achieve the same safety level.

John R

I am talking about 2+1 with a barrier between directions. Just because a motorway would be better does not justify the huge expenditure in building one, if the current roads are uncongested then it is a luxury. There are many areas that need new and better roads as well as other transport infrastructure. Motorway building should not automatically get priority.

De Rebel

John R wrote:

I am talking about 2+1 with a barrier between directions. Just because a motorway would be better does not justify the huge expenditure in building one, if the current roads are uncongested then it is a luxury. There are many areas that need new and better roads as well as other transport infrastructure. Motorway building should not automatically get priority.

There is no where that I know of that has 2+1 with a median barrier. And in any event, this is more by way of temporary fix rather than a permanent solution. The plans are for dual carriage ways of various standards to be constructed the full lenght of the route between Dublin and Cork. Taking your idea on board will add a stretches of a fourth road quality to the mix. (Motorway, wide median dual carriageway, narrow median dual carriageway, 2+1). Mixed roads of this nature are a disaster - people show little ability to change their driving to take account of the differeng driving environments on a single route. If the entire route is to be built to dual carriage way standard at a minimum, with stretches to motorway standard, then it makes sense to upgrade the whole lot at design stage, rather than facing another round of upgrades in 10 years time.

thejollyrodger

it really should be dual carriage way or motorway the whole length. Its the saftest means of driving, and its the 2nd city after all.

BigEejit

Iirc at the time of the publicity about the 2+1 that it is in used in scandanavia (Sweden mostly).... but to look at a **** N1 road look no farther than the Ballyvourney to Macroom road in Cork ... there's a couple of places where cars have to slow to 15mph and there is no way a car and a bus/truck/large van can pass each other there....

jank

Ill give this a bit of a bump

I drove this road earlier this week and it seems that any week now the cashill bypass and Monasterevin bypass are due to open now any week

Pity its not this weekend as the rebels are bringing McCarthy back to leeside in numbers

Unfortunately we will have to wait around 2 years at least for the next upgrade to open.

dmeehan

drove from killarney to cork this morning, and the start of the Ballincollig by pass is open, but only as far as the first exit :-(

so i thought, ths road must be opening soon. But then when I got to the other end (Bandon Rd Roundabout) of the bypass there was a sign for roadworks obn the roundabout August 2004 to APRIL 2005

major disappointment, the new road looks great

sliabh

The (estimated) dates for all the road openings each year are up on the NRA site. So for Dublin to Cork:

M7 Monasterevin Bypass - 17km - Q4 2004
N7 Naas Road Widening - 15km - Q3 2006
N8 Cashel Bypass - 7km - Q4 2004
N8 Rathcormac/Fermoy Bypass (PPP Scheme) - 18km - Q3 2007

And in planning:
8 Cashel/Michelstown High Quality Dual 32 km CPO/EIS to be published in 2004 .
8 Cullahill/Cashel High Quality Dual 45 km CPO/EIS to be published in 2004.
8 Michelstown/Fermoy High Quality Dual 22 km CPO/EIS to be published in 2004.

I was surprised to see the Port Tunnel is down for Q1 2005

dmeehan

what exactly is a "high quality dual carriageway"?

do we have any low quality dual carriageways?

Andrew Duffy

It's a motorway, built under a motorway order to prevent people from building private accesses to it, but it allows a small number of sharp left turns for low-traffic routes, and structures cater for pedestrian use. The speed limit is generally 60 mph and all classes of traffic can use it, but that could be changed due to the motorway order.

This explains it, albeit not that well: http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/GeneralPublications/d896.PDF

edit - low quality dual carriageways can have right turns and intermittent or absent hard shoulders. There's one near Mullingar just east of the higher-quality (and pretty old) Mullingar bypass. It's not on the route to Galway, but it's still unacceptably dangerous; in fact by speeding up traffic it makes right turns more dangerous.
I guess the Dublin ends of the N4 and N7 are low-quality dual carriageways as well.

murphaph

This High Quality Dual Carriageway thing has been irritating me. I rarely drive outside Dublin except to buy stuff in NI but on Tuesday I drove to Cork and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why the stretch of Dual Carrigeway into Cork was not signposted as a motorway, especially the new bit furthest from Cork.