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Target Pistols return to Ireland
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Which only goes to confirm my earlier remarks, difficult to obtain truthful info from DoJ. Either that or Glock is blatantly lying and I believe he is absolutely telling the truth. Perhaps Dec was on the beer last night and can't remember the truth or maybe he doesn't care about being honest.Sparks wrote:Well, article 17, section 6 of the act is pretty explicit...
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Er....gouda wrote:Which only goes to confirm my earlier remarks, difficult to obtain truthful info from DoJ.
I'm not sure I'd say the DoJ is in the habit of outright lying!
Or maybe he misunderstood the question...Either that or Glock is blatantly lying and I believe he is absolutely telling the truth. Perhaps Dec was on the beer last night and can't remember the truth or maybe he doesn't care about being honest.0 -
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gouda wrote:Supposedly to rid the EU of causing unecessary hassle to citizens legitimately travelling from one EU country to another. I believe I am correct in saying that an individual could travel to France or Germany and some other EU states with an European Firearms Permit only.
FACT
It clearly states the calibre ,make and type of firearm on the EFP and it is an offence not to inform your local Police force of any weapons which are no longer owned by you but are listed on an EFP.Ergo,the EFP is a current record of firearms in an individuals possession and cannot be issued unless the holder has a current licence for the firearms listed.
FACT
It does away with the need for separate Import/Export licences every time a person leaves their country of residence.INDEED
The Passport was not intended to cause hassle but our laws and the UK laws do not allow this.
Now here we must ask why? Is it because of article 3 that Sparks mentioned before??
It is still a hassle to take a firearm to the UK, I recently had a trip going to Scotland but I was meeting friends in Stafford. Stafford Police would not issue the Visitors Permit as I was staying in Scotland,( Iwas also staying one night in Stafford,which we had to lie about or I would never have been allowed in)Scottish Police had a problem because my sponsor had access to his gun safe(where my gun was to be stored) but did not have a permit for my calibre, he would also have access to my ammunition,which he did not have a permit for. If he gave me the keys to his safe,then I would have access to his guns,which I did not have a permit for etc.etc.etc. We did get it resolved by stealth,we purchased a trigger lock which was supposedly going to be used on my gun and the ammunition was going to be stored over 60 miles away with a friend of my sponsor who had a licence for the same calibre.
Just goes to show how anal the uk has become on firearms matters,within twenty years ,and that common sense....oh well....
This was complicated further by Airlines not carrying firearms as checked baggage. To the best of my knowledge only Aer Lingus will carry firearms and ammunition as checked baggage to the UK.So much for ease of travel throughout the EU
You mean between Ireland and the UK. Continental Europe is no problem.But then the continentals consider us a rather odd pair of island races.
Forget Ryanair anyway they are totally anti gun transport.
Least hassle airlines i have fond are
USA Continental [NRA flag carrier] American Airlines
Europe Lufthansa,Air France,Sabena, Aer lingus [if notified in advance]0 -
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Well, to be more accurate, the firearms unit is very clear on the opinions being given out; it's just that different people in the unit are giving out different opinions!Irishglockfan wrote:Confusion is what the DOJ is saying,especially it's personel who are charged with dealing with it.
Which cross-checks with the Firearms Act (Article 17, Sections 1 and 6, posted earlier on this thread).Sofar we have;
No import without the license and import cert
Which goes against the Firearms Act, unless you mean import as in coming back into the country after a competition abroad, in which case the licence and EU pass are all you need. (And I'm not even sure if you need the EU pass coming back, I know I've never been asked for mine). Which is why I think there could be confusion over the question. When I asked, I spelt out the scenario for them (ie., Pistol on an FAC in N.Ireland, licence granted by Gardai down here, can you cross the border without an importation order? Answer was positively not, and you'll be prosecuted if you try and are caught).Ok to import the firearm with the liscense but not the ammo without the import cert.[From the DOJ today as per my post]
That's how it normally works, though for me, I didn't even need the licence (it was being processed by the Gardai at the time, and the rifles were meant to be delivered to the college, which is a licenced firearms dealer). However, with the amendments on the way in, it seems everything is in chaos right now.you are implying that if you have the lic and apply to DOj they will issue the import cert at once?Has this been put to the test?What is the turnaround time? if it is within a 14 day period,brilliant!
We're getting conflicting reports on here about what we've been told by the DoJ - as opposed to us here giving different advice to that given by the DoJ. Just so we're clear, you understand!Now we are getting conflicting reports from us here and DOJ?
I wouldn't go recording the conversation without telling him - if you want something that will stand up in court, get it on paper.I am beginning to wonder does DOJ really want to push this import cert on gundealers and importers?The quickest way to clear this up is ring Dec again and ask the same question[and record the conversation?? and ask for this in writing]or ask for his superior for the exact current policy.Surely Dec cant be the only one in DOJ handling this??? And if he is... well then he has to KNOW the current policy and procedure.
Indeed. And since he's been asked to make decisions about policy that hasn't yet been presented to the Dail, it's no surprise things are how they are.I got the impression he is one man handling a mass of paperwork,and that they want to cut this down by any means possible.
Well, I got my rifles' importation order in less than 24 hours the last time. Rang them up, told them I wanted to import a .22 and an air rifle, they faxed me the form, I filled it out and faxed it back, and then called back, was told the cert was ready and they posted it out. Got it the next day.Downloaded the form.There is no mention of pistols on it.and it states quite clearly onit Applications must be recived two weeks before date of importation. So i would ASSume that means you should have a decision within 14 days.Maybe in an alternative dimension Ireland. :rolleyes:
Mind you, that was at a quiet time of year, for an established procedure - pistols are new to the firearms unit and the legislation is in a state of flux. Anyone expecting anything other than chaos in that situation probably hasn't had much contact with the civil service before now 0 -
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Right, next update in the continuing saga.
Heard today that the Dept have been refusing to grant import certs to dealers, even in cases where a firearms certificate had been granted to the customer. The advice from dealers now is not to bother getting serial numbers and applying for a certificate, until the import situation has been clarified.
Not sure where this leaves things, but it certainly is less optimistic than my previous update
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No surprises there ,then. Any word on exactly what grounds were used to refuse the application? Or what the next step is on all of this?civdef wrote:Right, next update in the continuing saga.
Heard today that the Dept have been refusing to grant import certs to dealers, even in cases where a firearms certificate had been granted to the customer. The advice from dealers now is not to bother getting serial numbers and applying for a certificate, until the import situation has been clarified.
Not sure where this leaves things, but it certainly is less optimistic than my previous update.0 -
From reading the Act, I'm not sure they even have to give grounds
It would seem the next step is to try to pursuade the Committee of the merits of our case when they're debating the amendments to the Firearms Acts. If those amendments don't ban the firearms in question, then the importation orders ought to start flowing again - the reason they're not right now seems to be the confusion over what those amendments might hold.0 -
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True, but they're exceptionally reliable - and since these guys may depend on the sidearm to save their life and they're getting in harm's way for the state, the state kindof has a duty to ensure the equipment is the best.Irishglockfan wrote:Sig 226?? Damn!!! we must have money to burn for the SB or whomever we are arming up.lovely guns the SIGs, all of them, what I wouldnt give for a sIG semi auto rifle.But as expensive as Rolex watchs :eek:
Still not on my list of things to buy mind
I'm now fondly looking at an IZH-46M and an IZH-35 - perhaps not as beefy as some would want, but they'll do for me quite nicely Each to their own and all that! 0 -
Hmmm. Murphys tenth law of combat doesnt apply here in Ireland then."Remember,your weapon has been made by the cheapest bidder, built by the most incompetant assembler."True, but they're exceptionally reliable - and since these guys may depend on the sidearm to save their life and they're getting in harm's way for the state, the state kindof has a duty to ensure the equipment is the best.
Could understand the arguement if we were having gunfights morning ,noon and nite,ala downtown Bagdad.Where the stuff will be used almost daily....but here??Even the RUC/PSNI are still using 357 Ruger sixshooters.And They would have more chance of getting into a firefight then our lads.Unless our govt is not planning a reissue for at least another 40plus years on any new sidearms.
It's not the gun,it is the person behind it.Proper training of the man is more important than weapon reliability.A proper trained high risk personel should be so fammiliar with the weapon as to it's faults as to be able to correct them in the field. Can name three DAOs that are just as reliable and significantly cheaper to the taxpayer than SIG.
This isnt a weapon designed for discreet undercover carry either.This is a big belt holster job.Or is this a case of because "elite" army rangers have it ,it has to be good.So we want it.
Still,we end up paying for it anyway with our taxes.So long as we ,mere civillians can own and use one as well.I'm happy.
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