Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q&A)

corktina

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Continious insurance is indeed an issue in Great Britain, I.e England, Scotland and Wales.
It does not apply to Northern Ireland.
In GB continious insurance does not apply to a vehicle that is "exported"

I'd like to see some evidence of that.
I see no exemption for NI and I also see the only exemption being for motor traders, ie for cars between owners in the Trade.

timmy4u2

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Yes, they are all answered elsewhere:( anyway its a Friday night so
(1) OK
(2) I would look at the car first and if I liked it and agreed a price I would then get the AA to check it. (B) There are certain warranties following an AA inspection so you should be ok there.
(3) Answered that already (b) many dealers are reluctant to accept bank drafts and release a car . Without the draft clearing. If the deal does not go through at the last minute you are left with reissuing the bank draft. Cash is king.
You need to get the full left hand side of the V5-registration document. Get a receipt for full payment, written guarantee if given.
Get a dated invoice showing the price of the car.

(4)No, have the car Hpi'd. It is very important to check its history and financial history, then drive it home.
Temp insurance. It is available in the UK for a day or a week. I have never needed to get it so cannot answer nor do I know if you need to be a UK resident.
(5) you have seven days to inform NCTS and thirty days from date of entering state to complete the VRT process.
To save repetition if you click on my posts in this thread you will see the list of what you need from driving licence to pps number to proof of address. Remember €250 is the maximum amount of cash the NCTS office will handle so you will need a draft.
It is not an offence to drive the car in the state while awaiting an NCTS inspection, assuming your insurance isvin order.

You do not need an NCT to tax the car. The plates have to be affixed within three days of clearing

corktina wrote: »

I'd like to see some evidence of that.
I see no exemption for NI and I also see the only exemption being for motor traders, ie for cars between owners in the Trade.

Look harder and you will see it.:)

corktina

website down at present.

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

website down at present.

Yes, it will be down all day.
Northern Ireland have their own system so Sec 22 of The Road Safety Act 2006 did not apply to them

corktina

I'm sure you are right, I'll take your word for it.

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

website down at present.

In the absence of their site this little snippet from the AA site

Continuous Insurance Enforcement (CIE) came into force in 2011. Initially CIE is not being introduced in Northern Ireland.

The Motor Insurance Bureau (MIB) makes regular comparisons between the Driver and Vehicle records held by the DVLA and the records held on the Motor Insurance Database (MID).

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/continuous-insurance-enforcement.html

These arethe only Acts that proceeded to Bill stage in NI from 2011 to date

I am not stating that it has not slipped in unnoticed by me as I made a decision several years ago to never buy a car in Northern Ireland, so keep searching. Four eyes are better than two.

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/Assembly-Business/Legislation/Primary-Legislation-Current-Bills/2011-2015-Mandate-Acts/

Irrespective of the legislation on the matter there is a EU understanding that regulations enacted in one EU country is accepted in another EU country.

If that was not so UK and other EU country cars coming into Ireland would be obliged to display an insurance disc, and light goods vehicles coming from the UK would be illegal here as such vehicles are required to undergo a test here on reaching one year old whereas in the UK they are not required to be tested until three years old.

corktina

I still didn't se anything that exempts vehicles being exported from Continuous Insurance though

Marcusm

corktina wrote: »

I still didn't se anything that exempts vehicles being exported from Continuous Insurance though

Once exported the car is no longer UK/GB registered so it would be a bit of a dead letter. I'm not wholly convinced that changing it over to an NI plate would be sufficient.

The local councillors (sorry members of the Legislative Assembly) have Ben trying to forestall the effective merger of DVLA and DVANI to protect jobs in Coleraine and, in their discussions, these two issues have been linked. At least they're not spending taxpayers money developng a parallel system (which is what the mergeris supposed to avoid).

corktina

that's not the worry, it's if you get stopped en route to the ferry that you could have problems.

Marcusm

corktina wrote: »

that's not the worry, it's if you get stopped en route to the ferry that you could have problems.

Understood; I even know people who have been pulled because they were driving on day of purchase of a new car (with drive away insurance plus transferred insurance) because the MID hadn't updated. Best anyone can do is get all docs & ducks in a row!

corktina

That's not a problem for UK bods because the Police can call the insurance bureau and confirm the cover. They can't do that for an Irish policy which may mean them seizing the car until proof can be verified with all the implications of cost and inconvenience that bears

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

I still didn't se anything that exempts vehicles being exported from Continuous Insurance though

Basically they made a b#**$ of the legislation and did not even allow for traders policies or fleet owner policies so the reverted to the section that allows them to amend without having to go back to the drawing board.
Traders are covered, fleet owners are covered," disposal" is covered sale is covered and export is covered.
Good defence-and this was before the amendments-
http://www.magistrates-association.org.uk/members/dmdocuments/continuous_insurance_enforcement_cie_cases_in_ithe_magistrates_court_-_19_january_2012.pdf

(8)Regulations may make provision amending this section for the purpose of providing for further exceptions to section 144A of this Act (or varying or revoking any such further exceptions)

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

that's not the worry, it's if you get stopped en route to the ferry that you could have problems.

The section dealing with CIE relates to the registered keeper, the onus is not on you, the user, to see that Sec 22 is complied with.
Once you can show you are insured you will be ok.

corktina

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Basically they made a b#**$ of the legislation and did not even allow for traders policies or fleet owner policies so the reverted to the section that allows them to amend without having to go back to the drawing board.
Traders are covered, fleet owners are covered," disposal" is covered sale is covered and export is covered.
Good defence-and this was before the amendments-
http://www.magistrates-association.org.uk/members/dmdocuments/continuous_insurance_enforcement_cie_cases_in_ithe_magistrates_court_-_19_january_2012.pdf

I think you misread that. It refers to vehicles that have been exported, in that they will not attract a fine. It doesn't apply to vehicles BEING exported imo

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

I think you misread that. It refers to vehicles that have been exported, in that they will not attract a fine. It doesn't apply to vehicles BEING exported imo

Her Majesty told me two weeks ago when I checked as I had a particular question to ask. That is my only authority for it. On the way to Liverpool I passed three Police cars. Two were on motorway police ramps but they did not bother me.
Common sense prevails and the police are not there to seize your car at the first chance they get. They are there to insure there is no uninsured drivers out there.

dubsmad

Thanks for all the help lads, progressing nicely! (its a learning experience for me!)... When getting a car checked out up north can someone recommend which company to use that will provide the most comprehensive and secure check on the car? AA / RAC??

RMDrive

corktina wrote: »

you can no longer do that safely. In the UK now they have "Continuous Insurance" which means the car must be itself insured or SORNd. If it isn't on their database (which an Irish policy wouldn't) it is likely to be seized if spotted by one of the 8000 ANPR cameras. They'll seize it first and ask questions later. Not worth the risk.
I don't think you can take out short term UK insurance without a UK address.

Hi. So what's the answer? Are you saying that you can't import a car privately now?

corktina

Get someone collect for you with a transporter. Can be cheaper than going yourself. Or get the dealer to fix short term Uk cover for you?

timmy4u2

RMDrive wrote: »

Hi. So what's the answer? Are you saying that you can't import a car privately now?

The Continious Enforcement Insurance obligation under Section 22 of the 2006 Road Safety Act places the onus on the registered keeper not the user.

The Act has been amended to allow further exemptions even though it does not show on the original Act.
Yes, you may be stopped, but if you can show your insurance you should not have a problem.
I do not think it is possible for a non UK resident tovavail of short term UK based insurance; but I am not a 100% sure.
I am sure that I saw someplace that a similar insurance is available here.

timmy4u2

dubsmad wrote: »

Thanks for all the help lads, progressing nicely! (its a learning experience for me!)... When getting a car checked out up north can someone recommend which company to use that will provide the most comprehensive and secure check on the car? AA / RAC??

As I do my own checking I have never needed to use either but I am told that the AA are very, very good

.

corktina

timmy4u2 wrote: »

The Continious Enforcement Insurance obligation under Section 22 of the 2006 Road Safety Act places the onus on the registered keeper not the user.

The Act has been amended to allow further exemptions even though it does not show on the original Act.
Yes, you may be stopped, but if you can show your insurance you should not have a problem.
I do not think it is possible for a non UK resident tovavail of short term UK based insurance; but I am not a 100% sure.
I am sure that I saw someplace that a similar insurance is available here.

it all depends if the Policeman accepts whatever bit of paper you show him. I'd suggest it would need to be an original cert with the reg number on it.
If the seller susses that HE is the one going to get the fine and the hassle, it's entirely possible he will refuse to hand over the V5C . yet another problem altogether.

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

it all depends if the Policeman accepts whatever bit of paper you show him. I'd suggest it would need to be an original cert with the reg number on it.
If the seller susses that HE is the one going to get the fine and the hassle, it's entirely possible he will refuse to hand over the V5C . yet another problem altogether.

The Police do not get enjoyment from having a car impounded...and impounding is a last resort.
If you have an insurance cert with the reg number well and good but a traders policy that does not show reg numbers is fine also.
As regards V5 it is pointed out on this thread to ensure beforehand that the seller will hand over the V5.
Some dealers are putting "Trade Sale" on the invoice as the vehicle does not come under CIE for ninety days if in the trade.
In those circumstances you need to get a signed note that such a deal is to comply with the Act and will not infringe on your rights

corktina

you can't have t both ways. You said that the registered keeper is liable, and if that is so, the registered keeper is still the seller even though the buyer has the V5C

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

you can't have t both ways. You said that the registered keeper is liable, and if that is so, the registered keeper is still the seller even though the buyer has the V5C

You are not listening. There are amendments to the exceptions. In trade sales the V5 is handed over. A trader does not become a registered keeper.The registered keeper is no longer liable when the car passes to a trader. Each trader has ninety days exemption from CIE.
Then they suddenly realised Trade policies cover any car in possession etc so the ninety day part does not apply.
Fleet policies do likewise.
There is a lot of confusion and a lot of it revolves around the fact that a section was written into the act that allowed change without amendment to the actual Act.
A few weeks ago I made enquiries about it, but even at that the trader that I was collecting the car from was not aware of all the amendments and insisted on writing trade sale on the invoice.
As I was collecting for a family member I also got him to sign a note on the lines previously referred to.

timmy4u2

From the AA site; and I know that its a farce that such sites have to be visited to get the facts.
And at that the AA has not listed all

Exemptions
Some vehicles are exempt from continuous insurance enforcement:

A vehicle with a valid SORN
A vehicle that was exempted from SORN (untaxed before 31/01/1998 and no tax or SORN activity since)
A vehicle that has been recorded as 'scrapped'
A vehicle that has been recorded as 'stolen and not recovered'
A vehicle that has been recorded as 'disposed to the trade'
A vehicle that has been recorded as 'disposed'
A vehicle that has been recorded as 'exported'
A vehicle owned by the crown

timmy4u2

FROM WWW-GOV-CO-UK

Rules in England, Wales and Scotland
The rules for insuring vehicles are called ‘continuous insurance enforcement’. They mean that if you’re the registered keeper of a vehicle it must be insured or declared as off the road (SORN).

If not, you could:

get a fixed penalty of £100
have your vehicle wheel-clamped, impounded or destroyed
face a court prosecution, with a possible maximum fine of £1,000
It doesn’t matter who is driving the car - if you’re the registered keeper, you could get penalised.

You will also still have to pay for your insurance on top of any fines received.

You can check if your vehicle is insured on askMID.

Motor traders - exceptions

If a vehicle is between registered keepers or registered as ‘in trade’ with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), it’s excluded from continuous insurance enforcement.

If you’re a trader and you have vehicles you keep for your own use, these are not excluded.

Rules in Northern Ireland
If you live in Northern Ireland, the rules are different. You can find out ead through this and you will see that the official side were even confused in the beginning

Link
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/uninsured-vehiclesj
When confusion reigned

http://www.betterregulation.gov.uk/ideas/viewidea.cfm?proposalid=655da6db10414d08965c653e172a91c1&tunnel=bl

Marcusm

The offence (if any) is contained in section 144A Road Traffic Act 1988 (as drastically amended over the years) and imposes, on the registered keeper, an obligation to maintain insurance in respect of the vehicle. Registered keeper is not defined in that Act but is defined in The Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 2002 (again as drastically amended over the years). These regulations contain all the legislative machinery for the whole V5C etc process. RK is defined as

“registered keeper” in relation to a vehicle means the person for the time being shown in the register as the keeper of that vehicle

This is interesting as it is a strict definition, open to little by way of interpretation. Not the person entitled to be so registered nor any saving for delay in the rereg process. The vendor of the car can defend himself against an offence under s144A by having sent the relevant notification to the DVLA. It seems, however, that the new owner would not be liable until such time as the register is updated which it never will be for a non resident purchaser.

This does not absolve the Irish purchaser from maintaining insurance on the vehicle while driving it for export, however. Nor does it protect him from a diligent PC who pulls him over. However, it would require a particular grumpy PC to decide to impound and seek prosecution under s144A (which I don't think would succeed) where the driver could produce evidence of actual insurance cover.

timmy4u2

Marcusm wrote: »

The offence (if any) is contained in section 144A Road Traffic Act 1988 (as drastically amended over the years) and imposes, on the registered keeper, an obligation to maintain insurance in respect of the vehicle. Registered keeper is not defined in that Act but is defined in The Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 2002 (again as drastically amended over the years). These regulations contain all the legislative machinery for the whole V5C etc process. RK is defined as

“registered keeper” in relation to a vehicle means the person for the time being shown in the register as the keeper of that vehicle

This is interesting as it is a strict definition, open to little by way of interpretation. Not the person entitled to be so registered nor any saving for delay in the rereg process. The vendor of the car can defend himself against an offence under s144A by having sent the relevant notification to the DVLA. It seems, however, that the new owner would not be liable until such time as the register is updated which it never will be for a non resident purchaser.

This does not absolve the Irish purchaser from maintaining insurance on the vehicle while driving it for export, however. Nor does it protect him from a diligent PC who pulls him over. However, it would require a particular grumpy PC to decide to impound and seek prosecution under s144A (which I don't think would succeed) where the driver could produce evidence of actual insurance cover.

There was no section 144a in the 1988 Act until it was inserted by the Road Safety Act 2006.

Perhaps we should have been more precise in our wording in that there is a big difference between "exceptions" and "exemptions"
Exemptions are created under an Act exceptions are just that, exceptions to the Act.

It matters not to the person driving to the ferry to Ireland as CIE does not apply to "vehicles that are between registered keepers" It is an exception to the Act.

The vendor does not have to defend himself as "between registered keepers" is an EXCEPTION to the Act.
He will have completed the required invoice with the VAT declaration, if a trader, and in accordance with the new regulation of notification of export in a letter to DVLA as opposed to the heretofore practise of sending off sec 11 of the older V5.
If he fails in this he may have to answer to the courts for that offence.

It goes without saying that a driver of the car has to be insured and his only duty is to show that he is insured, although, if you delve deep enough into EU law you may find that even that is not totally necessary in certain circumstances.
The register will be updated on export as this is why the newer regulation of the vendor writing a letter to DVLA to inform them was introduced.

An interesting piece of EU Legislation

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32009L0103:EN:NOT

MayoForSam

I'm flying over to the UK on Friday afternoon to pick up a car for myself.

I intend calling my insurance company this week, providing them with the new car's UK reg, timing the transfer of insurance for when I pick up the vehicle and will ask them to email me acknowledgement that they will cover me from then.

I will print out the email and have it on me, also the phone number of the insurance company and my policy number. If I get stopped by the police on my way to Holyhead, this should be sufficient to show I am covered.

timmy4u2

MayoForSam wrote: »

I'm flying over to the UK on Friday afternoon to pick up a car for myself.

I intend calling my insurance company this week, providing them with the new car's UK reg, timing the transfer of insurance for when I pick up the vehicle and will ask them to email me acknowledgement that they will cover me from then.

I will print out the email and have it on me, also the phone number of the insurance company and my policy number. If I get stopped by the police on my way to Holyhead, this should be sufficient to show I am covered.

Better again get a cover note and bring it with you. Have you made sure that the seller will part with the V5.?
Again the Police are interested only in the fact that you are insured, not in seizing your car