My religion forbids my sexuality

LegacyUser

OK, I consider myslef really religious, pray every day and go to mass(I'm chatolic and 15 yr old), but lately I've been feeling homosexual feelings towards men. I'm even more torn apart because the chatolic church forbids homosexuality and bisexuality. I'm not sure I could live a lie all my life and say I'm straight when I'm not. This is really something that I'm torn apart with: My sexuality or my religion?

munkeehaven

your sexuality. a religion that makes you feel bad about yourself isnt worth hanging on to. excuse my language but f uck that ****, god never said anything about gays being against his will .im straight myself but gave up catholicism a long time ago because its HOMOPHOBIC, MISOGYNISTIC, and all a big lie. why do you think its run by old celibate bitter men??? they just want us to suffer for being alive.WHY SHOULD YOU FEEL GUILTY FOR HOW YOU FEEL?? homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time, and its never going to disappear, its happens with chimpanzees too. some homophobic men a few 1000 years ago decided ''hey why dont we say this is a sin??'' i dont think jesus would have cared if someone was gay or not. or buddha or muhammed. and if they did well then they arent worth believing in, but i do think they wouldnt have cared, see , prejudice is a plague of humans, not enlightened beings. give up making yourself feel guilty. this could be your last life. there is nothing wrong with sex BETWEEN TWO CONSENTUAL ADULTS,, be they man and man , woman and woman, or man and woman. i just get so angry when i hear about things like this. dont make yourself feel bad, just forget about what your religion says, you must remember that any holy words, after a few 1000 yrs get distorted and tainted by particular humans,for their advantage. what you read most likely IS NOT TRUE. turn to philosphy its a much more fulfilling way to fill the gap in your soul.

LegacyUser

We should not be here to merely convert someone from one faith to another (or to no faith!). Please, posters, remember that. Do not believe that you are right and what someone else believe is wrong, and they should be more like you..

Torn Apart Guy, faith is indeed a wonderful thing. Something that can help you a lot in life. There is no need for you to turn away from the God you love and what you believe!

But God is not a solid, definite thing. And God does not necessarily need a proxy, or a "middle-man" to translate his words, his message. There is no need for books, rituals, or blind-faiths. God has no time for this!

Work at your connection with God. You can do this through meditation, prayer, connection with nature, and developing your mind body and spirit - work at your higher intellect and get in touch with your higher self, or your spirit - this is where you truly find God.. If you want to know how I managed to do this, email me: blizzardbeast66@hotmail.com

Do not worry about dogmas, rules, religion or blind faiths too much. They are not always there for your benefit. Take from them the good things - like the message of peace, love, harmony, giving and coming into touch with nature.


P.S. The reason I ask you to email me is because I posted on THIS message board a couple of years ago about how I found an amazing way of life, a technique that changed my life, and people on this board responded very negatively.. didn't want to know! So for fear of attack, I won't post the "answer" to the meaning of life! But I am here for you if you want to email me.

P.P.S. A lot of philosophy is merely intellectual entertainment. It will not give you true enlightenment or REAL happiness! Bear this in mind, it may save you years of playing intellectual games with your mind. Some people spend their life-times doing this, and often end up becoming very mentall ill as a result. Most of the best philosophers dies very unhappy, and ill!

keu

Your really going to feel at home here at boards then
and tbh....i'm suprised that anyone on this island is affected that way by "chatolicism"...i thought we all grew out of that.

but just to clear your conscience.
the words used to interpret "homosexuality" translate better as fornication and uncleanliness, which in spiritual terms has more to do with the "purity of the soul"...like intentions and stuff and nothing to do with sexuality. (see below)

The Greek words "pornea" (often translated "fornication") and akatharsia (often translated "uncleanness") are key terms used to refer to sexual sins in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).

over time scriptures have been twisted and contorted and really they should not be taken literally.
Which is why Jesus caused so much trouble when he came along, cause he even denounced the scriptures

Jesus and his disciples violated the Hebrew Scriptures' laws regarding ritual uncleanness. For example, they did not wash his hands before eating. In Mark 7:6-23 (copied by the author of Matthew in Matthew 15:3-20) Jesus enunciated the great principle that there is no ceremonial, but only moral and spiritual, uncleanness. He repudiated uncleanness, saying that one is defiled by "the things that come out of his heart, evil thoughts, hatred, murder, etc." That is, one does not become unclean by the actions of his hands. "

6

....in fact he rejected the original commandments and replaced with his own, of which there are only two. (less to remember)
1.- love one another....and
2.- do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
...and thats why they killed him.


so..your religion does not forbid your sexuality, the paedolphile priests and other eegits (lconservative religionsist) just made that all up.

edit: oh and as an afterthought, at 15 it is quite normal to have homosexual/bisexual feeling...believe it or not.

simu

Afaik, the Church accepts homosexuality in a person but forbids them to take part in homosexual acts. So, you can be gay and Catholic as long as you stay chaste.

So, you can relax for a bit. As for the whole faith thing, I won't go in to that. I don't believe in God (I was raised as a Catholic and believed strongly until I was about 13 or so, after that, nada) and I'm a tad biased against the whole faith thing. You'll have to work that out yourself but again, don't worry if you're having doubts or if you're confused - it's perfectly normal for someone your age to question beliefs they have held since childhood.

P.P.S. A lot of philosophy is merely intellectual entertainment. It will not give you true enlightenment or REAL happiness! Bear this in mind, it may save you years of playing intellectual games with your mind. Some people spend their life-times doing this, and often end up becoming very mentall ill as a result. Most of the best philosophers dies very unhappy, and ill!

lol! Philosophy doesn't promise guaranteed enlightenment or happiness - that's kind of the whole point - you start asking questions about things not knowing where these questions will lead you. Some philosophers are fairly happy, others are miserable old sods - there's no overall pattern. As for philosophers dying ill, well it's rare for people to die when they're in tip top condition, no?

Oriel

Sincere apologies if I'm wrong, but from Lokuttara's response, I smell a troll...

keu

yea..does smell trolly

but anywho....Catholic church does not condemn nor say being homo is sin they only say acting upon is, what they mean by that is sex is for married couples only and since only male female can marry...
...legally...
which is something thats being challanged

so..eh..keep your fingers crossed.

yossarin

this may well be a troll ("torn apart guy" seems a bit of a gag), but anyway.

The anti-gay parts of the bible are in the old testament , eg. lev 18, 22, Lev 20: 13, and others.
but that book holds other such gems as shrimp is an abomination , which people seems to be ignoring these days.

the message seems to be that you can pick and choose which parts of the religion you like.

Phil_321

Originally posted by Torn apart guy
I'm even more torn apart because the chatolic church forbids homosexuality and bisexuality. I'm not sure I could live a lie all my life and say I'm straight when I'm not. This is really something that I'm torn apart with: My sexuality or my religion?

Why not become a priest? Seems you'd fit right in.

Gordon

Phil_321 - that's not helpful here.

For the life of me I can't find a religion board, there are millions of boards on boards.ie and no Catholicism board.

Original poster, to be honest, why not talk to your priest if you are so religious? Also, would you like this thread moved to the LGB board instead?

Boston

Faith sudden be about sexuality, it should be about you an your god. Remember all religions are just middle men. Do you feel god will hate you and dis own you because of this.

BuffyBot

OK, I consider myslef really religious, pray every day and go to mass(I'm chatolic and 15 yr old)

Torn apart guy - it's good that you have your faith. Sometimes it good to have stuff to hold on to in a really strange world.

but lately I've been feeling homosexual feelings towards men. I'm even more torn apart because the chatolic church forbids homosexuality and bisexuality.

As someone else said, it isn't forbidden, just the acts. I don't believe in god, but I respect others who do. However, if I did, I suspect I would be dubious about taking something at face value that was written down a long, long time ago and been through many translations. Ask yourself, do you think God - who created you, and everything about you - would make you "faulty"? I think that is the question you need to resolve for yourself

I'm not sure I could live a lie all my life and say I'm straight when I'm not. This is really something that I'm torn apart with: My sexuality or my religion?

I think the second part of that is what you need to resolve first, then work on the first

luckat

It depends on what you think of as your religion. Most married Catholics nowadays use contraception, and consider it an honourable, responsible and correct thing to do.

Yet just 20 years ago this was absolutely a no-no. Contraception and divorce would put you outside the aegis of the Catholic Church.

Sexual love is the important thing, Torn. If your sexuality is an expression of love, not exploitation of others, then I can't see what's unchristian about it.

(Incidentally, what's the ad for Scientology doing on the Boards?)

cartman

sure arnt the priest bangin the alter boys,
so that means there homo too,
not to worry, pick ur sexuality, tbh you have no choice... its feeling, it wont go away

David-[RLD]-

You have homosexual feelings. So? They're your feelings, nobody elses. Nobody can tell you to be gay or straight except yourself. If you consider yourself to be religious, then continue being religious. Just because Catholicism frowns upon homosexuality doesn't mean you can't stop doing the things you do already. I know my Parish priest has no problem with anyone who is gay or bi, and I can tell that he hates homophobes.

So, all in all, stay faithful to your religion except when it comes to sexuality, because that's a Catholic belief that I disagree with; hating homosexuality; even though I'm Catholic myself.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Jaypers your 15, being 15 is freakin confusing.

Don't make any big choices as to what your sexuality is yet.

seamus

Maybe it's time to redefine what religion means to you. It's something you will do anyway over the next fews years. Religion isn't black and white. It's not about making a pact with any one institution to follow their beliefs and worship by their side, rather it's how you define your personal relationship with your God. Whether that involves personal sacrifice and suffering, or simply going about your business, but making an effort to better yourself and make a good contribution to the world, is totally up to you.
Now matter how devout someone is to Catholicism, it's impossible to follow the teachings and writing exactly. The contradict eachother disgustingly. Even the Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai the second time bear little resemblence to the ten commandments that the church follows.

Even the Bible says specifically that the Church and the Pope are fallible. If you believe something is the right thing to do, and your conscience tells you 100% that it will bring you closer to your God, then you have authority to follow it, even if the Church disagrees. At least something similar to that. Do a search for a nun who works as a religious outlet for AIDS-stricken homosexuals.

Basically what I'm saying is that the only person who can define your religion is your God. What authority do priests or the pope have? Authority handed down through the ages from other similarly non-qualified people.

Why would your God specifically make something wrong, then condemn you to a lifetime of doing it against his will? If you're Catholic, then your God is fair, good and forgiving. It's a nice contradiction.

LegacyUser

Originally posted by Gordon
Phil_321 - that's not helpful here.

For the life of me I can't find a religion board, there are millions of boards on boards.ie and no Catholicism board.

Original poster, to be honest, why not talk to your priest if you are so religious? Also, would you like this thread moved to the LGB board instead?

I supppose, move it to the LGB board, there might be more help and adivce there.

BTW, thanks for the advice so far everyone.

Doodee

I agree with seamus.
religion to alot of people has been turned into an institution, rather than a persons beliefs.
My granmother used to make my sisters and I goto church every sunday and any other holy days.
We went alot of the time for we went for the treat we recieved afterwards rather than for the spiritual enlightenment. It became a case of "I've gone to mass so im following the rules and going to heaven".
My beliefs about religion have always been different to my granmothers. She believes in following a code laid down by the bible and upheld by the priests and pop. I prefer to think of god as someone who listens when i talk to him, and rather than respond directly, that i will learn myself what i am looking for.
That sounds kind of complicated to me now, but all it really means is that if i get angry and question my beliefs, the talking to myself eventually calms me down and allows me to think rationally again.

I think your relationship with god is your own, and if you dont believe in him then thats not a problem. Different folks different strokes.

be yourself and dont worry about what others will say.

Doodee

for some reason my last post is making me confused

keu

for some reason my last post is making me confused

?? ...thought it was honest and straight to the point. Would think most people think the same way or come to the same conclusion with regard to inherited religious beliefs. We all eventually figure it out.

"an institution is the elongated shadow of a man, I will never walk in any mans shadow as long as I stand in the light of god"

makes sense.?

Doodee

yea, sums it up perfectly.
cheers

Elessar

cough**TROLL**cough

I cant believe you're all falling for it. Trust me NO 15 year old would post something like that even if he knew he was gay. He's too young to be telling people, even though he may be anonymous, he's even too young to be telling himself.

keu

cough**TROLL**cough

well, its not like the thought hadnt occured, but who is to say there isnt a 15 year old thinking about their sexuality and lets face it, regardless of what you believe, inherited beliefs get very stuck in the subconscious and lead to a lot of emotional crap when dealing with these kind of issues.

seamus

Originally posted by Elessar
cough**TROLL**cough

I cant believe you're all falling for it. Trust me NO 15 year old would post something like that even if he knew he was gay. He's too young to be telling people, even though he may be anonymous, he's even too young to be telling himself.

I have no doubt at all that it's a troll, but I also have no doubt that is a very real question for quite a few people. Why not impart advice?

Boston

Originally posted by Elessar
cough**TROLL**cough

Really could you please piss off. Every other thread here gets accused of being a troll. These are serious issues for allot of people, as seamus said, the fact that it's posted on PI is nearly proof enough its a troll, but we say on the chance that it's not that we will help. We don't need you informing us what is and is not a troll. All 15 year old think about there sexuality, some 15 year olds are religious, especially here, so its not insane to think that there is one worried about this. Theres definitely alot of older people who are. if you can't help why don't you sit down and shut the **** up. This definitely should be moved to LGB, people there have at least enough cop on not to state the bloody ****ing obvious.

memphis

Your 15 for christ sake (no pun intended). I'm 23 and still confused about my sexuality.

Its not uncomman for a guy at your age to question his sexuality. Maybe you are bi or gay. But you don't need to put a tag on yourself right away. Your young, you still have a life to live. Follow your heart and that should apply to religion too.

So, you say you have feelings for other men, ahve you acted on this or is it all just a fantasy?

Donno if I'll be of any help, but if you wanna PM me feel free to do so.

On the other hand, as regard to religion, faith is always a good thing to have. I'm a born catholic, and live in a very religish household, but unknown to my family I haven't been to church in weeks. This is my choice. If yo are gay or bi, you should not put your religion on the back boiler, if its an important part of your life continue yor faith. So what if the church condemns homosexuality. You have to remember that the Catholic church is run by a very elderly man, with very old beliefs.

Changes will come in time.

Personally, I don't go to church, but I still consider myself to have faith. I don't believe that I have to attend a weekly service to say I'm religous. I'm the judge of my religion, I choice what right and wrong. I choose how to live my live, I choose who I get sexually involved with, i choose how to be in harmony with the world, etc. Perhaps this is the religion you should follow.

To sum up, your young, you have alot of question that need answering, only you can discover the answers. its all part of growing up. Enjoy life, and don't be running yourself down.

Elessar

Really could you please piss off. Every other thread here gets accused of being a troll. These are serious issues for allot of people, as seamus said, the fact that it's posted on PI is nearly proof enough its a troll, but we say on the chance that it's not that we will help. We don't need you informing us what is and is not a troll. All 15 year old think about there sexuality, some 15 year olds are religious, especially here, so its not insane to think that there is one worried about this. Theres definitely alot of older people who are. if you can't help why don't you sit down and shut the **** up. This definitely should be moved to LGB, people there have at least enough cop on not to state the bloody ****ing obvious.

*sigh*

In case you were too dense to see through the thick perspex of your own nerd glasses, I made a valid point. If he is 15 he is still too young to even admit it to himself, never mind an internet board. And reading some of the replies to this thread, it's clear that not everyone knows he's a joker. This thread really belongs in the gay/bi forum. So can you please keep your retarded assumptions to yourself and read other people's posts before you start ranting on with obscene language.

LegacyUser

Ok, I am 15 and a lot of you are saying i shouldn't tag myself right away, but if you really read the first message I said I was having homo feelings, not saying I was gay, and I'm just worried that I'd be living a life of sin if I did turn out gay, that's all I really meant.

banquo

looks, its fine: you can do both.


most of the anti-gay writings in the Bible are from teh book of Leviticus. Leviticus includes other such gems:

-you cant plant two different crops side by side
-you cant touch pigskin (so american football si out of hte question)

its in hte New TEstamant, and in no way intwined with the myths of christ so its totally ok to just sort of ignore the book of Leviticus. most people do...

seamus

Originally posted by Torn apart guy
Ok, I am 15 and a lot of you are saying i shouldn't tag myself right away, but if you really read the first message I said I was having homo feelings, not saying I was gay, and I'm just worried that I'd be living a life of sin if I did turn out gay, that's all I really meant.

That's a very different issue. But my point still stands - If you believe in your God, then why would he create you as something that would anger him?

That would be like a programmer writing a program that doesn't work the way he wants it to....

Annasopra

Ok, I am 15 and a lot of you are saying i shouldn't tag myself right away, but if you really read the first message I said I was having homo feelings, not saying I was gay, and I'm just worried that I'd be living a life of sin if I did turn out gay, that's all I really meant.

It is perfectly natural to have feelings that you might be homosexual at 15. what I would say is that you are worrying too much at the moment about what might happen, I think you should just take time to work things out in your own head, there are lots of people who are gay and religious.

Gordon

Doodee

Originally posted by seamus

That would be like a programmer writing a program that doesn't work the way he wants it to....

Hey! leave me out of this!

Zillah

My apoligies to anyone this offends but I'm a believer in absolute truth always...

Which leads me on to my first point:


Sin is bull****.

Sin is about some close minded people spreading their lies to control other human beings through fear and guilt. I can't stress that enough, sin is bull****. Organised religion lost its way centuries ago. Jesus started the concept of mass (do this in memory of me...) as a fun celebration of life and each other. Compare that to the nasty atmosphere of sin and guilt that the church churns out these days.

On to my second point.

God doesn't judge you. Thats one of the few things that christianity got nicely on the head. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter, quite frankly if God exists he made you and anything to do with you, and he couldn't give the tiniest little toss about what you might ever do with another man.

And my final point.

Faith is also bull**** unless it serves a purpose. Personally I have no faith in anything, I see it as believing in something just because you're told to from an early age. I hate people who take faith to the point where it harms other people.

HOWEVER, there is absolutely nothing wrong with faith when it helps you get through yet another day in this preposterous thing we call life.

HOWEVER, there is abosultely everything wrong with faith when it makes you feel bad. If your religion tells you that something that you feel, that harms no one, is wrong, then your religion is bull**** and you need to find something that makes sense to you.

(I'm well aware that I repeatidly used the word bull**** in this post, but thats what happens when you put me alone in a room with religion and homosexuaity)


Forget the pebble, forget my hand, content and be.

PS : The bible was written by shepards who knew vastly less about the world than the average modern ten year old

LegacyUser

Ok, a lot of you have made the valid point of why God would make me something he would hate. It's an interesting point, but I'm not going to brand myself GAY yet, as I'm only 15, becuase these feelings maight go away after all. But anyway, will get back to you in a few years if I am Gay, but until then,

Live long and prosper!

MarcusGarvey

Do a search for "Primacy of Conscience". Should help with dealing with your sexuality while keeping your beliefs. Also I think theres some gay catholic websites in the resources list in this forum.

By the way, you got to love the google ads for this thread.

Boston

Originally posted by Torn apart guy
Ok, a lot of you have made the valid point of why God would make me something he would hate. It's an interesting point, but I'm not going to brand myself GAY yet, as I'm only 15, becuase these feelings maight go away after all. But anyway, will get back to you in a few years if I am Gay, but until then,

Well you can be have those feelings without actually wanting to express them sexually, which might be the case. then you don't have to really worry about religion.

satori

*big BIG hug*

huney, it sounds like you have got some good advice here and just thought you'd need a hug!!!

hehehe

shoegirl

Originally posted by Torn apart guy
OK, I consider myslef really religious, pray every day and go to mass(I'm chatolic and 15 yr old), but lately I've been feeling homosexual feelings towards men. I'm even more torn apart because the chatolic church forbids homosexuality and bisexuality. I'm not sure I could live a lie all my life and say I'm straight when I'm not. This is really something that I'm torn apart with: My sexuality or my religion?

First of all (and I speak as a now atheist who was once very devout up to about the age of 30). The church does not "forbid" homosexuality. What it forbids are sexuals acts. And just to be non-discriminatory it forbids them amongst unmarried straight people to. So technically, if you're not having sex, you've done nothing wrong, so you can have a clear conscience. (Interestingly enough, I think there is no actually definition of "sexual acts" anywhere in church teachings so you could technically debate this further).

However in practice the church as an institution can be highly hostile to gay people. Not as much, however, as so-called practicing lay people, who are deeply discriminatiory (take for example the vindictive behaviour of the CPSA regarding the survey sent to schools). They are actually wrong because the church teaches you "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If its any consolation, I had a part time with a church in Dublin for many years and one of the curates is gay. I still occasionally see him in the Front Lounge on my visits home! I think you need to think about the subject and try to separate the prejudice of many so-called catholics from the real teachings of Christ, and see where you come out. (My atheism, by the way, has nothing to do with my sexuality, it is just a feeling I started to have a couple of years back).

eth0_

Originally posted by Torn apart guy
I'm not sure I could live a lie all my life and say I'm straight when I'm not. This is really something that I'm torn apart with: My sexuality or my religion?

Don't beat yourself up about it, you may just be going through a phase. Lots of teenagers feel confused about their sexuality, it doesn't necessarily mean they *are* gay.

Try not to fixate on it too much, maybe see how you feel six months/a year down the line and then decide what you want, to be happy with your sexuality, or to hate yourself because you think you're breaking 'Gods' rules. Having gay feelings isn't exactly against the teachings of the catholic church, is it? I would have thought acting upon those feelings are what is 'frowned upon'.

There are lots of gay catholic/christian groups around as well, it hasn't affected their faith

I.J.

Sorry to interupt this continuing discussion but reffering to the first few posts, I just want to add that Catholicism is not a faith but a fascist dictatorship. The majority of this organised cult has no truth. You can believe in a higher spirit without having to be part of a religion. The Catholic Church HATES homosexuals. If The Bible was true, why doesn't it exist today?. People are not burned at stakes like they used to be by the Catholic Church. The Bible says homosexuals must be killed immediately. A democracy has taken over the world and the Catholic church has lost out. Homosexuality is part of a democracy. You can still have faith and not be Catholic. This is something that is so essential and should be told to the world. Be inspired, not brain-washed. The church sometimes tries to move along with the times but if God rules the world, why would the church have to move?. It is being pushed along by freedom seekers and these people are certainly not Catholic.

I do honestly believe that Catholicism was invented as a form of world domination. It almost got there too and was not far off. The Mafia (amazing coincidence that both power trippers come from Italy) has followed this idea too. However the more we put people before God, the better life will be. "Real" democracy and freedom only began in the last century and it will progress further as long as people are not dictated to by religions. In a way I would say I am Christian because I believe Jesus existed but I also feel the Catholic Church exploited the image and legend of Jesus Christ for its own selfish desires. The Vaticans wealth runs into billions. Tell me thats not greed.

I should add that I was raised a Catholic and went to Catholic schools. I'm 20 years old and even in my time staunch Catholic teachers were roaring the Catholic teaching at us. For a sensitive child this kind of stuff was traumatic. I see no goodness in Catholicism. Sure, there is good priests and nuns helping in the 3rd world countries but the organisation itself is only about power and money. The Pope uses the good innocent priests and nuns in order to convert people to Catholicism, hence giving The Vatican more power!.

satori

Although i am not a christian, i find there lore and teachings to be generaly beautyful and even though I do not feel a bond with this fate it dose desirve respect.

I dont think the problem lies in the teachings themselves but peoples interpertations of them.

From the above i think your problem lies with the catholic tradition...
Dont work yourself up about it, no one has the right to judge... an important lesson that may parisheners forget!
The essence lies in living a good life... thats all anyone can ever really ask of you!

I wish you nothing but peace and love

satori

Godkickingboots

Hey Torn Apart Guy, that's a really horrible position to be in and seeing as you're so devout this must be really doing your head in.
In response to your question (your religion or your sexuality), I'd have to really, really recommend you go with your sexuality. Millions of people live just fine and dandy without being part of the Catholic Church, or any religion or gods at all. On the other hand, repressing your feelings can make you terribly unhappy, especially if those feelings are towards another person. And even worse, so long as you believe in Catholic teachings, thinking about or acting on your impulses will be a sin.
I can't imagine how awful it would be to be thinking about someone you love one minute and thinking about eternal damnation the next.
It might be painful for you, but my honest advice would be to wean yourself off the Church; do some thinking, some reading, consider questions like " Why, if it exists, would the omnipotent creator and ruler of the universe care who I have a crush on?". " The Bible says so" isn't a very solid answer. The Bible says alot of silly, and just plain wrong, things.
I couldn't agree with I.J. more, his vitriol has a lot of truth to it. If it turns out you need some kind of belief, take the advice of so many others on this thread and believe in a God that doesn't need middlemen to promote him.
Sure, he might be a troll, but best to ere on the side of caution for his sake.
Satori, I'd recommend learing more about Christian lore and teachings before you commit yourself to saying they are beautiful and deserving of respect.

satori

I ment no offense,my statement was admittedly typed from the prespective of someone that finds the 'core' essence of that spiritual path a beautyful one and my own belife that what ever path we take in life diserves respect even those we ourselves do not walk because someone eles has chossen to.

Rredwell

Just to sicken all the TROLL conspiracy theorists: I myself went through a similar phase when I was 15. It happens, OK? The only difference in my case was that I managed to hold on to my faith. I only ever went through a small crisis of faith since (I'm 17) and my faith is still strong, even though I'm not a regular mass-goer, which I'm ashamed of.

Will all you "liberal" anti-Catholic hateniks please respect TAG's faith? It's his choice, just like following his homosexual tendencies. Your anti-religious spiels are hust as bad as anything the Church ever said about gays.

As for my sexuality to date? Hmmm.....

damien

It's like rain on your wedding day...

Zillah

"It's his choice, just like following his homosexual tendencies."


You don't see a slight contradiction in that?

Rredwell

Maybe and maybe not. What I'm saying is faith isn't exactly a thing that can be turned on and off at will. A lot of you won't like to hear it, but for many people, faith is intterwoven with their identity, just like thier sexuality. TAG seems to be one of them. And what's wrong with that? He asks for advice, and a lot of you have taken it as an opportunity to vent your own anti-Catholic feelings and deride Torn Apart Guy's faith, which is obviously something he holds dear.

Zillah

Rredwell wrote:

A lot of you won't like to hear it, but for many people, faith is intterwoven with their identity, just like thier sexuality.

Hell no I don't like it. Mainly because it's completely wrong. It's been shown by several studies, mostly of the human brain, that homsexuality and transgenderism have identifiable biological reasons, often such as parts of the brain developing much like those of a member of the opposite sex. Faith is learned.

Here's an experiment for you. We get two babies. Put each of them on a different desert island. If one of them was going to be gay, when he grew up he'd be gay. Its written into is brain.

Would you argue that the other could grow up to be a Catholic on this desert island? By your logic (...just like their sexuality...) he should grow up to be a Catholic regardless of his environment.

And just to preempt a very irritating counter argument (I'm not saying you will, just in case), don't even try to propose that sexuality can be learned. A childs environment can dictate how they deal with their sexuality, but it cannot alter it. A queer (I am one, I can say that word) born into a fundamentalist baptist family may completey go into self denial for his entire life and never practise his sexuality, but he is gay, he just deals with it differently.

Rredwell

No, I wouls never say that sexuality is 'learnt'. I'm just saying that a lot of people seem to be using Torn Apart Guy's dillemma as an opportunity to vent their own anti-religious spiels.
I agree that religion, eg Cathoilcism is learned by instruction. But faith is innately human. The other baby on the desert island wouls still want to know the answers to such questions as, "Why am I here? Who am I? Does my life have a purpose?" These are all questions that every human faith and creed strives to answer.