Physics College Courses

Woden

Originally posted by PrecariousNuts

I'm just so excited that it worked out so nicely, I can't wait till I get into 3rd level stuff, I'm hoping to do Theoretical physics and maths in maynooth.

unrelated an off topic but why maynooth, is there specific maths, physics combination that is only available there? would you not consider tcd or ucd?

data

PrecariousNuts

I just like the sound of the maynooth one, its a 3 year honors degree with 13 in a class for 500 points. The course topics sound superb.

Theoretical physics in TCD is 520ish points and doesn't have all the maths options but I have it down as second choice.

UCD is not considered at all mainly because it will take forever to get out there every morning, where as TCD requires one bus to dame street and maynooth is a quick train trip.

Do you know something that I should know about something?

PrecariousNuts

Oh what would you guys think of MH205, theoretical physics and computer science?

I'm working on the basis that all you need for theoretical physics is a pen and paper, surely facilities wouldn't really matter?

I'd appreciate any info/gossip you have heard, it could influence my decision.

Thanks.

Woden

Originally posted by PrecariousNuts

Do you know something that I should know about something?

not at all just making sure you have considered your options, i study at ucd myself and i have friends that do the theoretical physics there. Tbh i don't know what quality the course is overall compared to those in other colleges. i do know however that it is four years.

you mentioned that the maynooth one is 3 years. i'd look to see what it encompasses compared to a four year course. see if it crams in more stuff in 3 or wether you end up doing less. just make sure your covering what you want to cover.

basically what i'm saying is that you can cover a lot in one year and you don't want to miss out on something that would be beneficial for your degree

data

PrecariousNuts

1st year

3d geometry
mechanics
maths methods
probability and statistics
calc and applications
special relativity
lagrangian mechanics ??
quantum physics
multivariate calc ??
rotational dynamics
maths computing
infinite series
combinataries
number theory

2nd year

fluid mechanics
topology
classical mechanics
ring and field theory
maths methods
applications of topology
comp physics
set theory and cardinality
special relativity
group theory

3rd year

topology
statistical physics
numerical analysis
quantum mechanics
general relativity and cosmology
complex analysis
commutative algebra
differential geometry
dynamical systems
galois theory
probability and statistics
comp physics
electricity and magnetism

Woden

seems fairly packed to me

lagrangian mechanics is alright it typically defines a lagrangian of L = T - V iirc, i.e kinetic - potential energy for a number of systems, you work with spherical and cylinderical coordinates and stuff and from working with this some differential equations you can work out various things about the system. find out about some conserved quantities and such.

don't know about the other one with the question marks though.

PrecariousNuts

Theoretical Physics and Computer Science

1st Year
Mechanics
Special Relativity
Math Methods
Quantum Physics

Principles of Computer Programming
Computer Systems
Algorithms and Data Structures
Searching and Sorting

2nd Year
Math Methods
Mechanics
Electricity and Magnetism
Statistical Thermodynamics

Algorithms and Data Structures
Computer Architecture
Operating Systems

3rd Year
Langranian and Hamiltonian Mechanics
Fluid mechanics
Comp Physics
Math methods
Special Relativity
Special Functions

Languages and compilers
Networks
Databases
Software eng
Artificial intelligence
Theoretical comp sci

4th year
Quantum mechanics
General relativity and cosmology
comp physics
thermo/stat physics
electricity and magnetism
distributed systems

neural networks
complexity theory
computational linguistics
graphics
autmated reasoning
formal methods

Plus additional options

1st and 2nd year students may also take maths/experimental physics



I think they both sound excellent, regardless I believe I have won the CAO.
1st one was 500 points, comp science 300 points.

I would find it pretty hard to not get 300 points, and if all goes well 500 will be reasonably easy too.

planck2

If you think your good enough to get 500 points then there is now way on earth you should be considering doing theoretical physics through an arts degree at Maynooth or a Theoretical Physics and Comp Sciencein Maynooth. You should be doing it at Trinity or UCD. If you your that good take yourself seriously and go somewhere that is known for the excellence of its students and lecturers . I'm in UCD doing Theoretical Physics and I'm to say most of us don't even rate Maynooth when it comes to Theoretical Physics. The best lecturers are in UCD and Trinity. There are a lot of downsides to Maynooths Theoretical Physics course. First of all you don't do any experimental physics in first or second year, there is no high energy particle physics course, there is no mention of a course in thermodynamics, solid state physics or atomic and molecular physics. Theoretical Physics involves a lot more than just requiring a pen and paper and facilities do matter.

dudara

I don't know anything about the theoretical physics course in Maynooth, but to do theoretical physics, I would be recommending UCC, UCD or Trinity. I'm a graduate of UCC myself, and while the course has changed since I graduated to a Physics/Astrophysics course, it's still highly regarded, and is mainly theoretical work.

However, you need to select a course that gives you a very good solid foundation in all areas of physics. In response to the previous poster, I wouldn't consider high-energy particles fundamental, but a good thermodynamics/statistical mechanics course is essential. Any course you choose should have a good computing module, because physicists need to be able to write code to solve any problems they encounter.

Also, even though you might not become an experimental physicist, lab work is very important to teach you the fundamentals of scientific writing and the scientific method. So make sure the course you select offers good lab work.

I remember being back in your shoes, wondering what the hell I would do. I chose physics, and it's something that I would never change. Studying physics is not just about quantum mechanics and optics. It's a way of thinking and viewing the world. You learn to keep your mind open and view things analytically. So if you chose to go down the physics path, I wish you the very best of luck.

The problem here is that even your secondary school physics teacher cannot offer good insight into which course to chose as very few physics teachers actually have a degree in physics. But if you contact the university departments, they will be more than happy to arrange to send information to you, and perhaps even offer you a visit of their facilities.

planck2

High energy particle physics is a core final year subject in experimental physics at UCD. Thermodynamics is a core 3rd year subject in Maths Physics and Experimntal Physics and yes a knowledge of computer programming would be a good thing as well

PrecariousNuts

Oh, I didn't know theoretical physics in maynooth was through an arts degree. I just didn't want everything to count on +- 5 points to decide if I would meet trinitys 515 point requirement. I definately have that course in trinity down as number one but I never even considered UCD for some strange reason... I better recheck. Thanks for the advice!

PrecariousNuts

Was just looking around UCDs website, bit of a pain to be honest and the course does actually seem to be more rounded and broader, which is a good thing. I noticed it has hovered around the 350-450 mark for the past 5 years although it didn't show the 2003 points. B2 in physics should be easy enough and hopefully the same with maths...

Any more insight would be (valuable)/0 to me, thanks for your time.

dudara

TBH honest, to do well in Physics, you need to be A standard in both Maths and Physics.

Woden

don't be put off by the lower points of the TP at UCD. points dropped for TP a few years back due to the introduction of the mathematical science course which may have take potential students for the TP into the MS. just remember the points don't reflect the difficulty of the course just the number of spaces available.

PrecariousNuts

I'm delighted with the lower points as a matter of fact. I hate the fact that I have to rely on subjects like english and german to pull me through, I'm happy enough with 3 A's in my science subjects and a high B in maths. I'm praying to god that they don't suddenly rocket this year.. I should have no problems with the difficulty either, I'm a big fan of physics and while it might not apply to college level stuff, I find this LC course very easy and I am going through another textbook on better stuff myself.

Woden

well if ya fancy checking out the ucd recommended text for first physics its fundamentals of physics by halliday, resnick and walker, 6th edition is the latest.

the first year tp course in ucd is fairly standard i.e. no different from what a 1st science student does. you'll do four subjects in which you'll have choice of one. so you have to do maths, exp physics and maths physics.

planck2 the chap above entered as a typical 1st science student and moved into TP as thats ok as he had all the requirements. planck did chemistry in first year as his fourth subject. Have to say i don't think i'd recommend this even though i'm half a chemist myself. I think that you'd be better off doing computer science, the programming will stand to ya in later courses.

while this stuff above is individual for ucd of course, take from it what ya will

data

planck2

Data is right about the chemistry. I would recommend doing the computer science. Don't be put off by the distance, I know a girl in second year business and legal in ucd from castleknock. Its a bit of journey in the morning, there is nothing more i can say, it's your decision now.

Woden

Originally posted by PrecariousNuts
I'm tempted to put down that UCD course as second now, but I just know getting out there in the mornings will be a serious pain from Castleknock.

castleknock bah thats not too bad you can get the 37x in the morning will be just a one bus jobbie, and then it departs belfied at 16:50, 17:10 and 17:30 i think

you'd make it out of the labs for the last one perhaps . no i don't work for dublin bus but i do get that bus home sometimes, as its typically quicker then the 10.

its all well and good choosing college course based on its location. but don't let it be the deciding factor. if i choose based on location i would have went to trinity (at the time i didn't think i would have got the points and i was told not to do science in tcd by some people that worked there, but i still would have put it down as my first choice if going on location).

choose it based on the course, i'm not saying go to ucd, go to trinity or whatever but base your decision on the course and what not, not the convience of being on the maynooth line

hope you know what your getting yourself in for though all the TP's are weirdo's , even us normal science nerds get to look down upon them. take planck there he's the only one that is half normal. i only hang out with him out of pity

PrecariousNuts

Yeah that joke "What do science students use as a contraceptive?... Their personality" always cracked me up.

Seriously though, you're right about the location thing. I probably will figure something out, but the next problem is the points...

planck2

Some of us aren't that bad data. there are one or two normal people in the class, me included.

Woden

Originally posted by planck2
Some of us aren't that bad data. there are one or two normal people in the class, me included.

its ok planck your not normal but i still love ya

chump

You'd be mad not to study at TCD.

I can't imagine that any other university in ireland has the same standard physics facilities and lecturers as in TCD. Come and have a look around. The physics department is the highest earning research department in the college and has -numerous- top-class lecturers and researchers and they've just thrown up a new building of which the physics dept. will have a floor r 2 on, even though they already have the best facilites on campus.

I'm in the 3rd year EP and I'm not even into physics and I have no doubt that if your a physics nut you couldn't find a better spot...

PrecariousNuts

Yeah I changed the CAO and put it down as number one in TCD and number 2 in UCD

Sev

Well, speaking as a 1st year TP student in TCD, and rapidly approaching my end of year exams, I'd say that I've enjoyed the course so far. I'm in my element as far as im concerned, I cant really picture myself doing anything else. First impressions tho, is that theres a whole lot of maths, although thats what I expected and hoped for. Maths is definitely the major component in the first year anyway. To give you an example, we have 6 end of year exams. 5 of them are maths exams, and we have one physics exam (2 papers). In fact we do the bulk of the first year pure maths course, most of our lectures we sit are with maths students.

In fact, the pure maths students do 6 courses in total, 111 - algebra, 121 - analysis, 131 - "so called" mathematical methods, 141 - mecahnics, 151 - statistics and 161 - numerical anlysis. As TP's we do them all too, bar one of them, statistics, but if youre so inclined, there is apparently nothing stopping you from sitting the 151 lectures too. Of course as TPs, we have the physics courses too. The Physics course that we do is essentially the same Physics course that you would do if you were to do Physics through the TCD general 'Science' degree choosing physics as a choice in your first year. The only thing we do, that Science/Physics students dont in first year is a course on Special Relativity (which is very cool).

This leads to a definite distinction tho to be made in the 1st year course. We dont do a serious of lectures about 'Theoretical Physics', at least not in first year anyway, but we do a whole lot of lectures on 'Maths', and a whole lot of very different lectures on 'Physics'. Laying the ground work I can only assume.

We would sit all the maths lectures with Pure maths students, and TSM students doing Maths + <something else> of course they would know nothing of the alternate life of lectures on physics that we also sit with the general science students (and students doing advance materials).

I must admit tho, that a lot of the first year physics course isnt entirely interesting. For example we do a couple of experiments in the labs that would be on the leaving cert course, eg. the pendulum, convex lens, concave mirror. And a lot of the course material in lectures is repetition of what we've done in the LC physics course (I can only assume, because we sit lectures with science students who have chosen to do physics, and LC physics is not a requirement for them, of course most of them have probably done it.)

But they do teach everything from the ground up.. and thats a promise. The lecturers, especially the maths ones will not introduce any new topics at all, unless theyve strictly proven it, and a serious of proofs that build up to it. Everything's very rigoruous, exact, especially the 121 course and the 111 course. 111, algebra youll find is quite bizarre, a serious change from anything youve done previously, all about group theory, fields, isomorphisms, galois extensions and all this crazy new terminology, concepts and notation youll havnt seen before. You'll find the maths quite difficult indeed, in fact. I really do believe its quite the hardest material I can see anybody to be expected to learn in their first year (in the realm of science anyway).

And the TPs themselves... smart cookies (and lazy cookies too). They're all clever motherukcers, the lot of them, but they play it down. Although you have to expect that if youre going to do a course with such an intimidating title. Also, first weeks of college, you meet a lot of new people, one of the first questions youll always ask or be asked is "so,what course are you doing?" And its always new and interesting.. the reaction.. when you say "Theoretical Physics". The TPs are a pretty sound bunch tho in fairness, nobody is in any way unlikeable, a few of them are quiet, reserved.. you know the like, the smart ones usually are.. then of course a few of them are just so flambouyantly crazy you gotta like em, the rest are pretty normal. I guess you could say I have my circle of non-TP friends.. and then there's the TPs (theyre quite cliquish).

Of course the best thing about doing any course in Trinity is of course.. Trinity. Right, smack, in the centre of town.. and the social life is good. You finish lectures, and just hang around in the pav or sit around in the GMB.. and town is always your oyster. The surroundings are just slick, and im yet to see the clobblestone courtyard in snow.. something I again look forward to this winter.

Anyway, thats 1st year Theoretical Physics ala Trinity. I hope its been enlightening, my work is done. Let us know what you decide on.

Sev

Btw, this is the TCD Maths department prospectus on Theoretical Physics & Maths.
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/official/Prospectus/Prospectus.html

PrecariousNuts

Hey thanks for taking the time to type that one out Sev, it sure sounds interesting. I'm aiming for ~500 points so hopefully I will get the course. What was the cutoff mark this year can you remember?

Is there many people doing the course, or is it a nice small number where you can get to know everyone? I love maths so I will be in heaven it seems.

DS

Anyone know anything about the Physics and Astronomy course in NUIG? (GY312)

Sev

I think the points were something like 480 last year, I dont really know tho. I think theres around 30 or so in the class. You get to know everybody in TP anyway. But in maths lectures there is about 60 (cos we sit them with the maths people). likewise theres about 80+ in the Physics lectures. And it turns out theres actually 2 Physics exams at the end of this year, a Paper 1 and paper 2.. goddamn.

Sev

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to mention.. of the 30 or so TPs there are (maybe less), there are only 4 girls. But theyre cool (there were 5 to begin with, but one transferred to Science)

Nala

Originally posted by planck2
There are a lot of downsides to Maynooths Theoretical Physics course. First of all you don't do any experimental physics in first or second year, there is no high energy particle physics course, there is no mention of a course in thermodynamics,

No experiments in a Theoretical course. Funny that.
I know people doing the Theoretical Physics w/Maths course in Maynooth and they did do Thermodynamics.

Woden

Originally posted by neev
No experiments in a Theoretical course. Funny that.

Not really i reckon you would be crazy to do any type of theortical course without getting some practical experimental experience in the first couple of years, if only so you can learn how to write a report/journal if nothing else.