RTÉ ONE doesn't show the Angelus

Victor

Originally posted by The Brigadier
The main reason it is still on air is because according to census figures, 98% of Ireland is catholic...

More like 88%. www.cso.ie

The Brigadier

My mistake,

I read a supplement in the Irish Times before the day of welcomes. It had a breakdown on all the EU members and their religious breakdowns.

Ireland was published with 98% Catholic.

Even 88% is artificially high however. 9/10 people in Ireland are not catholic.

How many parents filled out these forms and put down that all their children are catholic??

Mike 1972

I can never understand why anyone (religious or not) in their right minds would answer the religion question on the census or any other form. This is dangerous information in the wrong hands (how did the Nazi's for example manage to determine who was Jewish) they say the information is confidential but you would be a fool to trust the b*****ds. Besides how do we know the system is secure ?

The last time I filled in a census form I refused to answer the religion question and for race I put down "none"

Even 88% is artificially high however. 9/10 people in Ireland are not catholic.

I wouldnt go that far. Id say Southern Ireland is about 40% Praciticing Catholic (unless you want to use a very strict definition of Catholicism that would include unquestioning acceptance of Papal Infalibility, adherence to the ban on birth control and suchlike) with a majority in the over 55 age group

As for Northern Ireland there is a lot of nonsense talked about the possibility of an eventual Catholic majority which ignores several basic facts
1) A Catholic Majority doesnt necessairly mean a Nationalist majority. One can be a Unionist Catholic or even a Nationalist Protestant.
2) Its pretty acedemic as there never will be a Catholic majority
3) There hasnt been a Protestant majority for many years (most people I know here dont attend church services or mass of any kindso labelling people as "Catholics" or "Protestants" is ridiculous

But getting back to the Angelus (well this is a TV board !) even if 99.9 % of the Irish population attended Catholic mass every day (and twice on sundays) believed in papal infalibility (even when he contridicts his infalible predecessors) and all had at least a dozen children per family it would still be wrong to have the Angelus shoved down the throats of the other 0.1 %

vorbis

dear lord why do people get so concerned about such a tiny issue. Its ONE minute a day for the majority faith in this country. Its not indocrinating you or abusing other faiths. I have more issues with the continual broadcast of fair city than i do with the angelus. Wheres religous tolerance gone to?

The Brigadier

sorry I think my point came across wrong there.

When I said 9/10 people are not catholic what I meant was that the figure of 9/10 to be incorrect, not that only 1/10 is catholic....

I would go with about 40% being a more realistic figure.

But certainly 88% is way off the mark

article6

Originally posted by Mike 1972
it would still be wrong to have the Angelus shoved down the throats of the other 0.1 %

Your television doesn't have an OFF button? I'm opposed to having Fair City 'shoved down my throat', so I change stations.

But certainly 88% is way off the mark

If this were the Politics forum, I'd ask for linkage. (Actually, the IT had 88% in their supplement too - is it 'The New Europe' I'm thinking of? - but that's a mistake any of us could make.) Until such time, I'll go with the CSO and CIA numbers.

vorbis

even if 99.9 % of the Irish population attended Catholic mass every day (and twice on sundays) believed in papal infalibility (even when he contridicts his infalible predecessors) and all had at least a dozen children per family it would still be wrong to have the Angelus shoved down the throats of the other 0.1 %

strangest comment i've seen on boards for some time. You're saying that RTE shouldn't make programming that the vast majority of its viewers will watch. That sound very logical to you?

willg

One must remember that this is by in large a christian country and democratic also. If one wishes not to watch the angelus then one has the freedom of choice to change the channel. I presonally see nothing wrong with showing the angelus at 6 on our national broadcaster. In fact a few weeks ago I saw a Rabi on RTE 1 around the time off the passover giving a brief cermon and even though I'm not jewish I was happy to see him there. His presence on tv had a significance for members of the jewish community in Ireland. I'm not old fashioned far from it in fact but I don't believe anything associated with religion or religion beliefs should be killed off just because it's now perceived not to be in fashion. The deciding factor for such religious programs to go should be when they do not fit the religious beliefs of the majority until then they should stay and have the right to stay. That's my two cent worth anyway !!

rlogue

It is right and proper that RTE should show religious programming and addresses from religious leaders at the appropriate times - but the issue I have with the Angelus is that it is specifically a call to prayer for Catholics.

Whilst the 26 counties have an apparent catholic majority, the rest of Ireland does not and I for one consider the Angelus to be a blatant sectarian badge worn by RTE every night. Surely for the sake of national unity we should drop it?

Mike 1972

"One must remember that this is by in large a christian country"
No it isint
Im was born and raised in the Republic but Im not a Christian
Most of my mates who live in the Republic arent Christians either

Irish constitution Art 5
"Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state"

I dont see the word "Christian" there ?

Of course its right and proper that there should be an appropriate level of religious pogramming on RTE (just like there is on BBC etc) but the Angelus (despite its appearence in the TV listings and -bizzarely having a videoplus number ) is not a TV programme (if it is then so is the test card !)

Yes Fair city is a load of crap but thats not the issue

Yes there is an off switch on my TV but why should I be told to switch off my TV when I am I required to pay a TV licence

"The deciding factor for such religious programs to go should be when they do not fit the religious beliefs of the majority"
Since the majority of Irish people nowadays dont practice any religion If this policy were adopted RTE wouldnt carry ANY religious programmes. And besides even for practicing Catholics saying the Angelus is not compulsary

Originally posted by The Brigadier
I would go with about 40% being a more realistic figure.

But certainly 88% is way off the mark

I would guess the 40% figure is also way off the mark.
What we are withnessing in my opinion are those that are born into what is historically a catholic family but don't practice anymore.
Mind you most when getting married will choose a catholic church and priest and from anecodotal evidence, most will pack the rafters of a catholic church on Christmas Day.
They are not regular mass goers but they don't stand outside the porch of the church at funerals either.
They have on board at least a pick and choose element of catholicism unless they have declared themselves atheist in my view.

Including them in the figures would certainly push you way back up over 80% again.

As regards the Angelus, I think I said it already it's not doing any harm, there are far more things on TV that are. It's quite quaint in fact.

article6

Yes there is an off switch on my TV but why should I be told to switch off my TV when I am I required to pay a TV licence

Public service broadcasting. that's why. It means that not everything on RTÉ One, and in theory, Network Two will appeal to a mass audience. In an ideal situation, in fact, they would broadcast niche programming which cannot attract a large enough audience to survive on advertising-funded stations, as well as general interest programming which cannot contain advertising (e.g. the shockingly short Dáil broadcasts on TG4, and yes, the Angelus). As it stands, RTÉ must show a lot of general interest, advertiser-pleasing programmes, because we're too parsimonious to give it an extra €300 a year in the license fee.

The deciding factor for such religious programs to go should be when they do not fit the religious beliefs of the majority until then they should stay and have the right to stay.

I don't agree - I'd love to see more programming about Jewish and Muslim life in Ireland, or about Hindu or Oriental festivals. Despite the fact that I don't believe in them. In keeping with our "diversity", sort of thing.

marclt

They showed it the other day and a friend of mine - who's not from Ireland couldn't quite work out what it was all about.. and to be honest.. I couldn't explain it.. - so is it relevant in today's society... how many families would be able to sit down for a minute at 6 to take 'time out'? Between feeding the kids, or sitting in traffic trying to get home from work.. or getting ready to go to work etc etc etc.

And Anyway... why does nobody complain about the fact that RTE One, Network 2 and TG4 spend hours every day showing the same bloody euronews!?!? Which if you have sky is on there anyway...

I thought TG4 was meant to 'closedown' overnight but they just keep on broadcasting so why do the other stations find it necessary to churn out the same stuff... if they're so worried about money turn the transmitters off! That'll keep the power bill down.

Rant over!

article6

Originally posted by marclt
if they're so worried about money turn the transmitters off! That'll keep the power bill down.

Not necessarily. The electricity cost of starting up power-using equipment can be greater than the cost of keeping it on for a period of time. Of course, it depends on how long the equipment would not be in use.

how many families would be able to sit down for a minute at 6 to take 'time out'? Between feeding the kids, or sitting in traffic trying to get home from work.. or getting ready to go to work etc etc etc.

No need to sit down, that's the beauty of the Angelus - no prayer mat needed! And surely, if you're sitting in traffic, you'll have 40 seconds to spare for prayers. I mean, I'm able to speak and drive at the same time... well I would be if I could drive

rlogue

And surely, if you're sitting in traffic, you'll have 40 seconds to spare for prayers.

If you want to pray that is. And that is the point.

billy the squid

The angeles should be kept. It motivates people to get up off their but to see if there is anything better than the six one news on the other channels.

Could they not introduce "press the red button on your remote control if you want the angeles any time of the day you like" or something.

Seriously they should go How are you supposed to "reflect" with bells ringing in your ears.

article6

Originally posted by rlogue
If you want to pray that is. And that is the point.

Is it? Listening to the Angelus doesn't force you to pray if you do not want to, agreed? It's not a prayer itself, either - if it were, whither the atheist campanologists? It simply provides a service which is of use to, at the very least, the Catholics of this country, be they practising or non-. Perhaps it serves even more people as a "call to prayer", a "time to reflect", or such. I believe that is the point.

Could they not introduce "press the red button on your remote control if you want the angeles any time of the day you like" or something.

A good idea, actually, once we all get those Sky Plus boxes!

Mike 1972

Surely if (as some people here are claiming) a majority want the angelus commercial stations like TV3 and Today FM would carry it too ?

article6

Originally posted by Mike 1972
Surely if (as some people here are claiming) a majority want the angelus commercial stations like TV3 and Today FM would carry it too ?

As I said (wait a minute, I remember passing this arc of the circle before)

In an ideal situation, in fact, [RTÉ channels] would broadcast niche programming which cannot attract a large enough audience to survive on advertising-funded stations, as well as general interest programming which cannot contain advertising

Due to its brevity, and the fact that it is uninterruptible for its purpose, there is no way to get a good advertising revenue from the Angelus. Therefore, it will not be carried by commercial broadcasters. (Also, they need that minute for advertising, to survive against the subsidised state broadcasters.)


EDIT: Okay, I admit it. I can't use vB tags.

11133163

The angelus should not be shown on rte1. As a proud atheist and humanist I know that no religious broadcasts should be condoned and played by state controlled channel. This violates the separation of church and state. It's a bit of a disgrace that Ireland hasn't rid itself of ridiculous religious tradition that is somehow still present as a malignant force in the country.

Elmo

RTÉ are also supposed to be separate to the state.

There IMO is nothing wrong with taking a minute out of your day to reflect regardless of your religious persuasion (or none) perhaps they should just have silence, our the natural sounds which have appeared on the TV version.

Surely if (as some people here are claiming) a majority want the angelus commercial stations like TV3 and Today FM would carry it too ?

It is one minute (2 on radio) on out how many RTÉ TV channels and radio stations? If is so PBS as you suggest surely TG4 should also broadcast it.

aidan_walsh

Please don't bump old threads.