RTÉ ONE doesn't show the Angelus

patrickmooney

On Saturday, due to continuing coverage of the EU enlargment cermony, RTÉ ONE went straight through the 6PM hour without showing the Angelus. Was this a first for RTÉ? Have religious groups been emailing in disgust? I wonder did anyone even notice?

Which begs the question, should RTÉ continue to show the Angelus, a sign of Catholicism, in what is now a very much multi-racial country?

Explosive_Cornflake

I ****ing hate the angelus so much.

Victor

Originally posted by patrickmooney
Which begs the question, should RTÉ continue to show the Angelus, a sign of Catholicism, in what is now a very much multi-racial country?

There are catholics of other races also. :rolleyes:

It's hardly that much of an imposition on your life is it?

patrickmooney

Getting back to the point, regardless of how it affects my life, is there a place for it on national public service television? If there is, why isn't there the Muslim call to prayer? Or taking it even further a subtle image at 11:30pm indicating last orders in all bars around the country? Where does public service broadcasting start and stop re pleasing both minority and majority groups?

More-over did anyone miss it from Saturdays TV? Perhaps RTÉ should have re-scheduled it for 7pm or moved it onto N2? Imagine those people who video-plus'd it, only it find it wasn't broadcast!!

Explosive_Cornflake

Videoplus the angelus? What (think viva la bam, cropton ass terry, with low waste band scene, there no need for the pants)
Its the same every day aint it.
It turns me off RTE.

rlogue

Putting the Angelus on national television at 6pm is in my opinion, a total anachronism in this day and age.

I can't understand why RTÉ persist with this practice - Ireland isn't the sort of country that stops on the toll of the Angelus bell anymore. It certainly was up to twenty five years ago, but those days are long gone.

The daily broadcasting of the Angelus started back in 1948 on Radio Éireann and has persisted on RTÉ Radio 1 and RTÉ One television since.

But this is not 1948 and we do not have a uniformly Roman Catholic culture in the country anymore.

So why does RTÉ persist with the Angelus?

watty

It should never have been on RTE ever.

A church station should feel free to broadcast it (e.g. ETWN, and do they?), but I can think of no reason at all why RTE should ever have don it on TV or Radio.

DMC

Just on the upper points, there have been loads of occasions where RTÉ TV don't get to show the Angelus. After all, when RTÉ 1 started a daytime schedule in the early 90's, they didnt automatically get the bongs out at noon! Radio 1 still has the twice daily "call to prayer".

You have to remember where we started from. On 31st December, 1961, in the opening show on Telefis Eireann, we had benediction.

In the UK, it was not uncommon for some ITV regions well into the eighties have a canon or vicar reading an epilogue at closedown. (Tyne Tees had them at start-up too!) BBC Radio 4 still has religious folk appear in the middle of the Today show.

watty or rlogue, did UTV ever show an epilogue?

I'd like to get the opinions of the new communities of what they think of the Angelus.

I would say that other faiths are jealous of the Angelus. Think about it. Prime time, national broadcaster, dominant faith still has a daily bong-fest. Only in the middle-east would you get this service!

My opinion on this is that I don't have one. I like the thought of a minutes peace and quiet before the doom and gloom of the news; a bit of a primer, if you will, for our governments ills.

What you are dealing with is the biggest pressure group in the country, and if Cathal Goan or any of his sucessors in the DG-ship of RTÉ remvoves this, a smoky place and a hand cart will be a comin'.

DMC

Oh, and I'm editing the poll, nowhere to spoil my vote

mike65

RTE is not the Roman Catholic Broadcasting Corporation, its a semi state. NO to the angelus.

Mike.

Elmo

I always think that if it just became a minute of peace, all inclusive of the Irish Population, SIMPLE PUT


That would be an Ecuminalical (sp?) matter.

I beleive that other religions dont have much of a problem with it.

I don't and I am a catholic

Okay the free presbetrians, but they dont like anything or anyone.

Charles Slane

We could all do with a minute's peace every day - but those loud bongs ain't gonna help you get it !!!:D

Mossy Monk

i'd agree with the scrapping of it. none of that carry on please

mickeyboymel

Its a wounder RTE have not got sponsership for The Angelus, seeing as they are so strapped for cash, and it has a good prime time spot, with all the biddies waiting for Six One.

Radio Telefís Eireann, its Six o Clock, now The Angelus, brought to you by..............?You could have images and all in the background, what an untapped potiential:D

patrickmooney

I couldn't agree more with sponsoring it. As a tax payer I feel RTÉ are wasting 6 hours a year of primetime television with a program which (1) hasn’t changed in over a year (2) isn't watched.

bus77

The Angelus gives the make-up people at RTE a few more vital seconds to prop Anne Doyle up.

I think the angelus is fine, leave it alone:rolleyes:

Ro

Originally posted by mickeyboymel
Radio Telefís Eireann, its Six o Clock, now The Angelus, brought to you by..............?You could have images and all in the background, what an untapped potiential:D

That's a great idea. The Angelus, brought to you by that cold crisp, beachwood aged Budweiser. And instead of that oul one whisking her pot, she could be sipping on a cold one watch the clydesdale horses passing her window.

bus77

Originally posted by patrickmooney
I couldn't agree more with sponsoring it. As a tax payer I feel RTÉ are wasting 6 hours a year of primetime television with a program which (1) hasn’t changed in over a year (2) isn't watched.

ffs, are you serious?

Its a religious thing, Im a pagan f*****r but Im not that bad.

"The Angelus, Sponserd by Gillette, the best a man can get........BONG.......BONG.....BONG...

If ya dont go for the religious angle, then the Angelus is the one thing that makes our national news differnt to all the others, that alone is a great reason to keep it imo

Ro

Maybe the oul one could be shaving so...

Go Figure!

Originally posted by patrickmooney
On Saturday, due to continuing coverage of the EU enlargment cermony, RTÉ ONE went straight through the 6PM hour without showing the Angelus. Was this a first for RTÉ? Have religious groups been emailing in disgust? I wonder did anyone even notice?

This has happened a number of times before and to the best of my knowledge there were no complaints. Bizarrely they used to never be shown on Christmas Day. I would say that if they quietly phased them out the schedule gradualy very few people would even notice or care. I hope so anyway as I can't stand them.:mad:

Elmo

Did ye see the Blizzard of Odds take on the new look angelus?

Mossy Monk

no, do tell about it

Elmo

Blizzard of Odd Angelus

Two Drunks pissing on the street look up in reflection, as they hear the bells
A Hooker steps back for the car (from which she is looking for business ) and looks up in reflection as she hears the bells
Two guys beating up another stop to reflect as the hear the bells

ETC. ETC.

stuartfanning

ROI is only slightly multi-cultural compared with the UK and other European countries. It's still overwhelmingly a Catholic country. Outside Dublin most people would oppose the dropping of the Angelus.

Elmo

Outside Dublin most people would oppose the dropping of the Angelus.

Have you ever ventured outside of Dublin?

I assume that most people wouldn't bat an eye lid, other then the fact that:-

the indo
the times
the star
the sun
etc etc

would prob have it on their front page.

All of which are Dublin/Brit papers.

Do you know the total amount of Catholic from other countries coming to this country?
Just because you have a different culture doesn't mean you have a different Religion.

This is a major problem with Ireland, most people think of culture as Catholism or Religion when it is not the case. (while religion plays an influence)

But then most Irish Culture now a days is mixture of British and American and a drop of Guinness.

The Real B-man

Bin it if you want religion watch the GOD channel

BuffyBot

They removed call the religious icons from it, and now it's billed more as a moment of reflection. I doesn't particularily bother me to be honest.

Mike 1972

Im a pagan f*****r but Im not that bad

Would that be a druid pagan or a wicca pagan ?

It (Ireland)'s still overwhelmingly a Catholic country

The old "might is right" argument :mad:

I think youll find that practicing Catholics are no longer a majority in Ireland. (although as a large minority they are still a lot more influential than most people realise) Even "outside Dublin" (some of those culchies are really "with it" these days you know. A lot of them even have colour TV's !)

Although most people in Ireland (ROI anyway) seem to feel that while it may be a curious relic of a bygone age they dont particularly care strongly about the issue either way. Unfortunately !

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by bus77
The Angelus gives the make-up people at RTE a few more vital seconds to prop Anne Doyle up.

LOL:D
And to charge up the de-fibulator:D

The Brigadier

The main reason it is still on air is because according to census figures, 98% of Ireland is catholic...

Well I don't know about you, but I know only one practicing Catholic.

Maybe if census forms were filled out properly, the Catholic Church wouldn'd have the lobbying power it does...

I don't think the Angelus would be on if say 40% of Ireland was declared athiest??

Our man in Havana

Maybe if census forms were filled out properly, the Catholic Church wouldn'd have the lobbying power it does...

I worked on the last census and I don't think that many of my forms were filled in correctly.

Victor

Originally posted by The Brigadier
The main reason it is still on air is because according to census figures, 98% of Ireland is catholic...

More like 88%. www.cso.ie

The Brigadier

My mistake,

I read a supplement in the Irish Times before the day of welcomes. It had a breakdown on all the EU members and their religious breakdowns.

Ireland was published with 98% Catholic.

Even 88% is artificially high however. 9/10 people in Ireland are not catholic.

How many parents filled out these forms and put down that all their children are catholic??

Mike 1972

I can never understand why anyone (religious or not) in their right minds would answer the religion question on the census or any other form. This is dangerous information in the wrong hands (how did the Nazi's for example manage to determine who was Jewish) they say the information is confidential but you would be a fool to trust the b*****ds. Besides how do we know the system is secure ?

The last time I filled in a census form I refused to answer the religion question and for race I put down "none"

Even 88% is artificially high however. 9/10 people in Ireland are not catholic.

I wouldnt go that far. Id say Southern Ireland is about 40% Praciticing Catholic (unless you want to use a very strict definition of Catholicism that would include unquestioning acceptance of Papal Infalibility, adherence to the ban on birth control and suchlike) with a majority in the over 55 age group

As for Northern Ireland there is a lot of nonsense talked about the possibility of an eventual Catholic majority which ignores several basic facts
1) A Catholic Majority doesnt necessairly mean a Nationalist majority. One can be a Unionist Catholic or even a Nationalist Protestant.
2) Its pretty acedemic as there never will be a Catholic majority
3) There hasnt been a Protestant majority for many years (most people I know here dont attend church services or mass of any kindso labelling people as "Catholics" or "Protestants" is ridiculous

But getting back to the Angelus (well this is a TV board !) even if 99.9 % of the Irish population attended Catholic mass every day (and twice on sundays) believed in papal infalibility (even when he contridicts his infalible predecessors) and all had at least a dozen children per family it would still be wrong to have the Angelus shoved down the throats of the other 0.1 %

vorbis

dear lord why do people get so concerned about such a tiny issue. Its ONE minute a day for the majority faith in this country. Its not indocrinating you or abusing other faiths. I have more issues with the continual broadcast of fair city than i do with the angelus. Wheres religous tolerance gone to?

The Brigadier

sorry I think my point came across wrong there.

When I said 9/10 people are not catholic what I meant was that the figure of 9/10 to be incorrect, not that only 1/10 is catholic....

I would go with about 40% being a more realistic figure.

But certainly 88% is way off the mark

article6

Originally posted by Mike 1972
it would still be wrong to have the Angelus shoved down the throats of the other 0.1 %

Your television doesn't have an OFF button? I'm opposed to having Fair City 'shoved down my throat', so I change stations.

But certainly 88% is way off the mark

If this were the Politics forum, I'd ask for linkage. (Actually, the IT had 88% in their supplement too - is it 'The New Europe' I'm thinking of? - but that's a mistake any of us could make.) Until such time, I'll go with the CSO and CIA numbers.

vorbis

even if 99.9 % of the Irish population attended Catholic mass every day (and twice on sundays) believed in papal infalibility (even when he contridicts his infalible predecessors) and all had at least a dozen children per family it would still be wrong to have the Angelus shoved down the throats of the other 0.1 %

strangest comment i've seen on boards for some time. You're saying that RTE shouldn't make programming that the vast majority of its viewers will watch. That sound very logical to you?

willg

One must remember that this is by in large a christian country and democratic also. If one wishes not to watch the angelus then one has the freedom of choice to change the channel. I presonally see nothing wrong with showing the angelus at 6 on our national broadcaster. In fact a few weeks ago I saw a Rabi on RTE 1 around the time off the passover giving a brief cermon and even though I'm not jewish I was happy to see him there. His presence on tv had a significance for members of the jewish community in Ireland. I'm not old fashioned far from it in fact but I don't believe anything associated with religion or religion beliefs should be killed off just because it's now perceived not to be in fashion. The deciding factor for such religious programs to go should be when they do not fit the religious beliefs of the majority until then they should stay and have the right to stay. That's my two cent worth anyway !!

rlogue

It is right and proper that RTE should show religious programming and addresses from religious leaders at the appropriate times - but the issue I have with the Angelus is that it is specifically a call to prayer for Catholics.

Whilst the 26 counties have an apparent catholic majority, the rest of Ireland does not and I for one consider the Angelus to be a blatant sectarian badge worn by RTE every night. Surely for the sake of national unity we should drop it?

Mike 1972

"One must remember that this is by in large a christian country"
No it isint
Im was born and raised in the Republic but Im not a Christian
Most of my mates who live in the Republic arent Christians either

Irish constitution Art 5
"Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state"

I dont see the word "Christian" there ?

Of course its right and proper that there should be an appropriate level of religious pogramming on RTE (just like there is on BBC etc) but the Angelus (despite its appearence in the TV listings and -bizzarely having a videoplus number ) is not a TV programme (if it is then so is the test card !)

Yes Fair city is a load of crap but thats not the issue

Yes there is an off switch on my TV but why should I be told to switch off my TV when I am I required to pay a TV licence

"The deciding factor for such religious programs to go should be when they do not fit the religious beliefs of the majority"
Since the majority of Irish people nowadays dont practice any religion If this policy were adopted RTE wouldnt carry ANY religious programmes. And besides even for practicing Catholics saying the Angelus is not compulsary

Originally posted by The Brigadier
I would go with about 40% being a more realistic figure.

But certainly 88% is way off the mark

I would guess the 40% figure is also way off the mark.
What we are withnessing in my opinion are those that are born into what is historically a catholic family but don't practice anymore.
Mind you most when getting married will choose a catholic church and priest and from anecodotal evidence, most will pack the rafters of a catholic church on Christmas Day.
They are not regular mass goers but they don't stand outside the porch of the church at funerals either.
They have on board at least a pick and choose element of catholicism unless they have declared themselves atheist in my view.

Including them in the figures would certainly push you way back up over 80% again.

As regards the Angelus, I think I said it already it's not doing any harm, there are far more things on TV that are. It's quite quaint in fact.

article6

Yes there is an off switch on my TV but why should I be told to switch off my TV when I am I required to pay a TV licence

Public service broadcasting. that's why. It means that not everything on RTÉ One, and in theory, Network Two will appeal to a mass audience. In an ideal situation, in fact, they would broadcast niche programming which cannot attract a large enough audience to survive on advertising-funded stations, as well as general interest programming which cannot contain advertising (e.g. the shockingly short Dáil broadcasts on TG4, and yes, the Angelus). As it stands, RTÉ must show a lot of general interest, advertiser-pleasing programmes, because we're too parsimonious to give it an extra €300 a year in the license fee.

The deciding factor for such religious programs to go should be when they do not fit the religious beliefs of the majority until then they should stay and have the right to stay.

I don't agree - I'd love to see more programming about Jewish and Muslim life in Ireland, or about Hindu or Oriental festivals. Despite the fact that I don't believe in them. In keeping with our "diversity", sort of thing.

marclt

They showed it the other day and a friend of mine - who's not from Ireland couldn't quite work out what it was all about.. and to be honest.. I couldn't explain it.. - so is it relevant in today's society... how many families would be able to sit down for a minute at 6 to take 'time out'? Between feeding the kids, or sitting in traffic trying to get home from work.. or getting ready to go to work etc etc etc.

And Anyway... why does nobody complain about the fact that RTE One, Network 2 and TG4 spend hours every day showing the same bloody euronews!?!? Which if you have sky is on there anyway...

I thought TG4 was meant to 'closedown' overnight but they just keep on broadcasting so why do the other stations find it necessary to churn out the same stuff... if they're so worried about money turn the transmitters off! That'll keep the power bill down.

Rant over!

article6

Originally posted by marclt
if they're so worried about money turn the transmitters off! That'll keep the power bill down.

Not necessarily. The electricity cost of starting up power-using equipment can be greater than the cost of keeping it on for a period of time. Of course, it depends on how long the equipment would not be in use.

how many families would be able to sit down for a minute at 6 to take 'time out'? Between feeding the kids, or sitting in traffic trying to get home from work.. or getting ready to go to work etc etc etc.

No need to sit down, that's the beauty of the Angelus - no prayer mat needed! And surely, if you're sitting in traffic, you'll have 40 seconds to spare for prayers. I mean, I'm able to speak and drive at the same time... well I would be if I could drive

rlogue

And surely, if you're sitting in traffic, you'll have 40 seconds to spare for prayers.

If you want to pray that is. And that is the point.

billy the squid

The angeles should be kept. It motivates people to get up off their but to see if there is anything better than the six one news on the other channels.

Could they not introduce "press the red button on your remote control if you want the angeles any time of the day you like" or something.

Seriously they should go How are you supposed to "reflect" with bells ringing in your ears.

article6

Originally posted by rlogue
If you want to pray that is. And that is the point.

Is it? Listening to the Angelus doesn't force you to pray if you do not want to, agreed? It's not a prayer itself, either - if it were, whither the atheist campanologists? It simply provides a service which is of use to, at the very least, the Catholics of this country, be they practising or non-. Perhaps it serves even more people as a "call to prayer", a "time to reflect", or such. I believe that is the point.

Could they not introduce "press the red button on your remote control if you want the angeles any time of the day you like" or something.

A good idea, actually, once we all get those Sky Plus boxes!

Mike 1972

Surely if (as some people here are claiming) a majority want the angelus commercial stations like TV3 and Today FM would carry it too ?

article6

Originally posted by Mike 1972
Surely if (as some people here are claiming) a majority want the angelus commercial stations like TV3 and Today FM would carry it too ?

As I said (wait a minute, I remember passing this arc of the circle before)

In an ideal situation, in fact, [RTÉ channels] would broadcast niche programming which cannot attract a large enough audience to survive on advertising-funded stations, as well as general interest programming which cannot contain advertising

Due to its brevity, and the fact that it is uninterruptible for its purpose, there is no way to get a good advertising revenue from the Angelus. Therefore, it will not be carried by commercial broadcasters. (Also, they need that minute for advertising, to survive against the subsidised state broadcasters.)


EDIT: Okay, I admit it. I can't use vB tags.

11133163

The angelus should not be shown on rte1. As a proud atheist and humanist I know that no religious broadcasts should be condoned and played by state controlled channel. This violates the separation of church and state. It's a bit of a disgrace that Ireland hasn't rid itself of ridiculous religious tradition that is somehow still present as a malignant force in the country.