Child Slapping

Mighty_Mouse

Mother reported for slapping a child in a Supermarket!

I know that there might be details missing on the extent of the slapping etc but if you take the story on face value its completely ridicolous that the mother should be punished for her actions.

Does anyone else feel strongly about this either way. My own opinion is that a few slaps never did any child any harm esp. when there playing up in public!

SheroN

Moving to humanities, this is not a personal issue.

Beruthiel

slapping is the lazy parents way and is not necessary if you make an effort with your child, you can teach your child the difference between right from wrong by showing it the cause and effect of it’s actions, this takes effort and time on the parents part which a lot of parents are too lazy to do. I am totally against slapping but reporting it is ott

ixoy

Interesting, but it's alreading being covered in the coporal punishment thread in this forum... Moi? I'm in agreement. A few slaps has done me no harm nor anyone I know. The key is in the severity of the slaps, the reasons for giving them, and the connection by the child between the slap and them understanding they've committed a bad act. Sitting the child down and discussing the finer points of ethics isn't always going to work...

GoneShootin

Sometimes you just cant "talk" to a child and make them listen. sure they are only young, how are they know the difference.

Teach the kid as you would a pet dog. A good slap in the arse for doing something wrong, praise when it doesnt do it again. Dont push your kids face into the piss stain in the carpet though, thats just bad parenting

I got slapped only once, and it was well deserved - plus it did was it was intended to do. When I have kids, I will not forego a good slap, but only as a last resort.

Syth

Well I think something like this one shouldn't base a decision like this on one's personal opinions. We need research!!

GoneShootin

Originally posted by Syth
Well I think something like this one shouldn't base a decision like this on one's personal opinions. We need research!!

Research ? On what exactly ? Go with your gut. Bring your child up as you were, or you would have wished to have been. Forget all that RAISING BABIES FOR DUMMIES nonsense. If you cant make decisions about your own child without going to THE BOOK first then you shouldn't be a parent at all.

And another thing, why is my right eye twitching ?

Xterminator

I disagree with Beruthiel on this one.

First up each child is an individual. And they all react differently.

My eldest son has a sensitive nature, and i can deal with him by talking to him.
He does not need to be 'slapped' when he misbehaves, in fact i belive it would even be counter productive, in his case.

My younger boy however does not take a 'talking to' in the same way. Also conficating his toys does not affect him. Nor does being sent to his room,as he is quite happy in his own company. I find that occasionaly a slap on the bum becomes nessacary.

You may find Beruthiel, that your children can be diciplined without resorting to a slap, but that doesnt mean you can say the same for other children and parents.

I do not think i am lasy, and i find that a bit condecending to say all parents who slap are lasy. Again i wouldnt ever use violence on a child, but i honestly belive that not diciplining a child when they have misbehaved can cause far more damage to the childs development.

X

Typedef

Basically corporal punishment is wrong.

You could bang on about 'trust' all day long and a parents 'right', but, it smacks of allowing the clergy in schools to administer physical punishment, which I'm sure most people have heard nightmare stories about.

Essentially it comes down to human rights, most parents could be trusted to use discression in administering physical punishment, some cannot, ergo to prevent abuse, it should be curtailed and classified as abuse.

Indeed one allows ambiguity to encroach into the remit of punishment against abuse, when one condones (some unspecified) level of physical punishment for children.

For example, if my father was to throw a dig at me, a twenty four year old male, would that be "assault" or "parenting".

The law would stipulate assault, but, somehow, if I was younger and ironically less able to defend myself, suddenly there is ambiguity as to whether or not physical "punishment" is a tangable and societally acceptable modus parentus.

It's not, it's too open to abuse and calling non-corporal punishment techniques (tree hugging hippie) nonesense, simply shows an inability and a general ignorance on the part of the proponent of physical punishment.

In Irish society, captial punishment is unconstitutional. Recently three young men who admitted to being involved in a fight, where 'later on ' six other unnamed assaliants killed a man, were imprisoned. The State, because of Northern history, has strong laws about paramilitary violence. Indeed Ireland would seek to import itself as a progressive country when it comes to protecting women from physical abuse. Sadly though, on some of the fundamentals Ireland is still weak on when it comes to equality and justice in my view.

Equality for fathers in custody arrangements (currently the law heavily favours mothers).

The ability of 'parents' to perform low level acts of potential physical abuse and have it 'condoned' as a parent's perogative.

The general shift in Irish society and law towards excluding babies of foreigners, born in this country from citizenship rights, while still extending that right, to auntie ethel in the US, the third grand daughter twice removed of a famine immigrant, a symptom of Irish latent racism, since most immigrants these days are black/asian.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Xterminator
Nor does being sent to his room,as he is quite happy in his own company

I'm sure there is at least one thing that he likes which can be taken away from him, you say he is quite happy in his own company, what's he doing in that time?

I think every parent should be made do a parenting course, it can teach you little tricks which I would not have come up with on my own.

I find that occasionaly a slap on the bum becomes nessacary

the problem with this is that you will have to up the anti as he gets older which you will have more difficulty doing

I was slapped on a regular basis as a kid, all it taught me was to be smarter about not being caught and resulted in me hating my mother for a long long time. I'm sorry you find my comments condecending, but I stand by them

koneko

What do you do when your child doesn't really care about a slap on the bum anymore? Do you smack him?

I see plenty of kids getting slapped that just turn round and use violence as their own method of dealing with things. Explore every possible avenue before resorting to slapping your child. In my own experience, it's only going to make them resent their parents.

Commissar

My parents never hesitated to give me a few well deserved slaps on the bum when I was younger and to be honest I'm fairly proud of the results.
Anyway I don't think that the pain caused was actually an issue. Sure they might sting for a few moments ( my mum used a wooden spoon:rolleyes: ) but their main purpose was pretty much symbolic. It was just their way of showing their strong disapproval and dissapointment. And it worked. I always felt the guilt more strongly than the pain.
I don't think much of this softly softly approach. Taking away my toys or books would not have had any effect on me anyway, I'm sure.

Nuttzz

My da used to beat the sh1t out of me and I look forward to beating the crap out of my own kids.

Really though, everybody copes differently, some people have the will power to talk to their kids but a lot (my own parents included) hit as it gets results quicker than talking to them

uberwolf

Originally posted by Beruthiel


the problem with this is that you will have to up the anti as he gets older which you will have more difficulty doing

wasn't the case with me, the punishment fitted the crime, and I learned not to 'crime'. As I became older I could be reasoned with and spoken to as you suggest B. I noticed the younger children in my family were not subjected to this kind of punishment (their gender was prob. taken into a/c).

My opinion would be that every situation and child is different and that blanket rules for these situ's is appropriate. And reporting a mother for slapping her child (slapping not beating) is a police state.

magpie

Hmm, this is a tricky one...

I noticed in France that they slap the **** out of their kids for any kind of misdemeanour; they expect them to act like adults and as a result most French kids are very well behaved ans sit at the table in silence.

Then again, is this what childhood is supposed to be? Shouldn't you let kids be kids to a certain extent?

I wonder how much anti-social behaviour is a result of allowing kids to eat 12 bags of crisps washed down with a 2 litre of coke? I can't help thinking that a requirement for slapping is the result of ****ty parenting. However, my kids are too young for me to know for sure, I'll find out in the next couple of years...

I think if I saw someone in a supermarket slapping their kid about I'd report it. In the case of this mother who says 'oh, he does it everywhere, all the time' she is clearly lacking in some parenting skills, and I woudl imagine it's the old 'reared on crisps' scenario.

Of course the americans have a cure for ****ty diet and bad parenting, it's called Ritalin.

echomadman

Originally posted by Typedef
Basically corporal punishment is wrong.

You could bang on about 'trust' all day long and a parents 'right', but, it smacks of allowing the clergy in schools to administer physical punishment, which I'm sure most people have heard nightmare stories about.
<snip>
blah blah blah off topic rambling
</snip>

maddox while a little OTT has a point, in some cases a slap is justified in my opinion, a child has to learn that there are consequences to their actions, I got slapped maybe twice as a child, I deserved it on both occasions and the threat of another one made an excellent deterrant.

A slap as a disciplinary tool should not be confused with physical abuse though, and someone who finds themselves having to resort to slapping a child regularly need to look at a different approach.

Kids today are too fucking whiney and sheltered for thir own good, they'll be eaten alive in the real world when they emerge from behind mothers apron

Typedef

Originally posted by echomadman
maddox while a little OTT has a point, in some cases a slap is justified in my opinion, a child has to learn that there are consequences to their actions, I got slapped maybe twice as a child, I deserved it on both occasions and the threat of another one made an excellent deterrant.

Well that makes you an authority on the subject then doesn't it?

But seriously, you still fail to address how, as a society, we come up with a rule set that allows parents to 'slap' children, and doesn't allow for physical abuse to seep into the fold from this.

Also, at what age does corporal punishment become assault?

Frequently you get random people giving personal anecdotes about how being hit with a spoon as a child never did them any harm.

Funnily enough the people who had bones broken by their parents as children never really seem so, willing to share their horrors in order to justify the counterpoint.

My point would be that while I accept that some parents administer corporal punishment in what society would deem an acceptable fashion, some don't and that those who don't get validated by society's general position of condoning parental corporal punishment.

Also, I have yet to hear, you, nor anybody else, actually jusfity the position that hitting children is ok, if you happen to be that child's parent 'and' you take it easy.

One might also say that making underage children work in factories is 'ok' as long as you are elder and related to that child and you "don't" overexploit them.

It might also be helpful to discourse in general if you argued your counterpoint rather then arbitrarily dismissing other posters points with "blah, blah blah off topic", as if yours was the word of Solomen!

ixoy

Originally posted by Typedef
But seriously, you still fail to address how, as a society, we come up with a rule set that allows parents to 'slap' children, and doesn't allow for physical abuse to seep into the fold from this.

I think we'll agree that the acceptable slapping is something leaves a light sting and that the real pain is the embarassment for the kid. Please don't make it sound like we're condoning walloping the kid across the face with a baseball bat. I could never condone any more than a light slap. If there brusing, or any such from it, then that would be completely unacceptable too. The point of delivering a light slap is to teach those - who cannot understand any other way - what constitutes a bad, or unacceptable, action.

Now when they get older, you might fear that the punishment meted out must be increased in order to account for their increased physical presence. By a certain age, the child should be capable of understanding what they're told and making simple moral choices between good and bad. Younger children can't do it to the same degree. So an older child should be disciplined in some other way - such as having privileges removed, etc.

The balance, of course, has to be struck between using such disciplinary measures and making the child understand that they shouild only ever be used in extreme circumstances. It worked perfectly well for me and for others here - we're all well adjusted. Surely then, it can work.

dr_manhattan

I have to say, I'm with typedef on this issue, and I think a lot of people who on the surface have said "a slap doesn't do any harm" would actually be in agreement if they thought this through.

Ixoy said:

The key is in the severity of the slaps, the reasons for giving them, and the connection by the child between the slap and them understanding they've committed a bad act.

...and this is the problem. I am very much against the state legislating in family areas, but sometimes it simply becomes necessary. There is no way to monitor ANY of the factors ixoy mentions, basically an abusive parent could break a kids arm, and then claim that it was either deserved, or the kid understands it, or the crime was heinous, whatever.

I respect parents who occasionally slap their kids, it's their decision. But this law is to protect kids from parents who do not have that ability to judge: and we all know there are a significant amount of parents out there who are just plain crazy.

Therefore slapping kids should be discouraged, and a facility provided to punish those who practise it excessively. Not a "police state" - because these prosecuations are damned rare. But a facility to protect kids.

I don't think it's "excessive" that a woman was reported for allegedly hitting here son on the head (the article mentions kicking, too) - personally, I would say that people *don't* report this kind of thing unless it's excessive. And that article certainly made it sound excessive. I mean, people will ask you to stop doing soemthing before they call the cops. People challenge you when you hit your kid.

Put simply, if you give your kid a smack on the arse, I don't think anyone will report you. Nor do i think a court will convict you. But hitting kids in the head is out of line for *many* reasons, apart from medical ones. And kicking them? In fairness.... that's just mad.

So I'm not suggesting that *everything* can be solved with a chat - but as was already said, if you have to resort to beating regualrly, there's a problem. And one thing I do trust people, the cops and the courts to do is not to charge people who have not been excessive. Cops may be a bit touched, but they're not nazis.

I myself was beaten a handful of times, and deserved it, and feel it did no harm. But I grew up with kids who came into school with black eyes, and even in one case a broken arm. I was even taught by a schoolteacher who knocked out 4 teeth from a fellow student.

And that's nothing compared to some. Fred and Rosie west come to mind. We have to protect our kids - simple as that.

I am quite happy that there's a law to protect children from excessive force. Better a cautioned mother with a criminal record than a dead, injured or conditioned-to-violence kid IMHO.

And as for the suggestion that kids be regarded as pet animals? I hope that's a joke...

GoneShootin

Originally posted by ixoy
I think we'll agree that the acceptable slapping is something leaves a light sting and that the real pain is the embarassment for the kid.

you hit the nail on the head there.....

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
And as for the suggestion that kids be regarded as pet animals? I hope that's a joke...

Dunno, depends how you treat your pet animals I spose. Though at times I have seen some kids that are wilder than any animal.....

Emboss

Kids today are too ****ing whiney and sheltered for thir own good, they'll be eaten alive in the real world when they emerge from behind mothers apron

So typedef, what colour IS your mothers apron btw?

I'm the same as echo, there was a couple of times when I got a slap and I well deserved it, and it thought me valuable lessons and I sure as f*ck thought twice about doing what I did a second time.

Every ocassion I remember clearly what I did and why I was given a smack for it.

I don't remember any of the times they gave out to me for doing something.

As said before there is a huge difference in physical abuse and an acceptable clatter around the ear when out of line.

/smacks typedef

get out of that apron!

echomadman

Well that makes you an authority on the subject then doesn't it?

As much as anyone who isn't a parent can be, what gives you your awesome insight into the matter of child discipline Vs abuse.

The general shift in Irish society and law towards excluding babies of foreigners, born in this country from citizenship rights, while still extending that right, to auntie ethel in the US, the third grand daughter twice removed of a famine immigrant, a symptom of Irish latent racism, since most immigrants these days are black/asian.

this was the off topic rambling i was referring to, wtf does it have to do with the topic. If you can explain that I'll concede your points.

Also, at what age does corporal punishment become assault?

At the age when they become resposible legal adults in the eyes of the state and can be diciplined by our judicial system perhaps?

But seriously, you still fail to address how, as a society, we come up with a rule set that allows parents to 'slap' children, and doesn't allow for physical abuse to seep into the fold from this.

Do you want a threshold level set, perhaps a maximum striking force of x Newtons? What is the SI unit for child-discipline anyway?

Parenting isn't science or programming, its not an If-Else, 1 or 0 scenario, where you can lay a set of tightly defined strictures and clear boundaries.

I cant say to a parent that they shouldnt slap a child who's misbehaving. Its ultimately their perogative, I would however intervene if i felt that my personal threshold of abuse was being exceeded, its the job of society as a whole to be self-regulating in matters like this and needful of the police force to take more action in "domestic" situations than they do at the moment, lots of abuse is reported but nothing is done due to reluctance on the part of the gardai to involve themselves.

One might also say that making underage children work in factories is 'ok' as long as you are elder and related to that child and you "don't" overexploit them.

Another astounding analogy from beths, but it's hardly pertinent to the topic at hand is it, a closer anlaogy would be the difference between giving a child household chores and sending them out to sweep chimneys or pick pockets

Typedef

Certainly, the difficulty of policing corporal punishment in the home, requires legislation in order to protect children.

Personally, I would be of the opinion that a total prohibition on corporal punishment is the only solution that adequately moves towards protecting the innocent and the young.

Parents will enivatebly administer corporal punishment, but, if it was against the law to do so, the severity and frequency would be quite diminished, not only that, but, it would admonish doubt, when one sees a child being slapped, beaten whatever you want to call it, that the parent in question (if there is any question) is out of line.

rs

I think a healthy fear of the dreaded wooden spoon is essential in creating a decent human being

uberwolf

Originally posted by rs
I think a healthy fear of the dreaded wooden spoon is essential in creating a decent human being

I wasn't the only one so...

Hobart

Originally posted by Typedef
Certainly, the difficulty of policing corporal punishment in the home, requires legislation in order to protect children.

Personally, I would be of the opinion that a total prohibition on corporal punishment is the only solution that adequately moves towards protecting the innocent and the young.

Parents will enivatebly administer corporal punishment, but, if it was against the law to do so, the severity and frequency would be quite diminished, not only that, but, it would admonish doubt, when one sees a child being slapped, beaten whatever you want to call it, that the parent in question (if there is any question) is out of line.

Why not go the whole hog and rename the country the United States of Ireland?

Typedef

Actually Hobart you're right.

It would be much better to cling to our pig ignorant drunken Mick image for fear as being castigated as part of the minorty of Liberal, Gay loving Americans.

First it's marriage, then next thing you know.... the vote!!

Well said.

GoneShootin

Hey ! my name is Mick. But I am rarely drunk. That is slander sir !!

Typedef

Give it up man...

We know it was you.

Big Ears

Originally posted by Commissar
My parents never hesitated to give me a few well deserved slaps on the bum when I was younger and to be honest I'm fairly proud of the results.
Anyway I don't think that the pain caused was actually an issue. Sure they might sting for a few moments ( my mum used a wooden spoon:rolleyes: ) but their main purpose was pretty much symbolic. It was just their way of showing their strong disapproval and dissapointment. And it worked. I always felt the guilt more strongly than the pain.
I don't think much of this softly softly approach. Taking away my toys or books would not have had any effect on me anyway, I'm sure.

I agree entirely with everything you said , i even got the wooden spoon myself

dr_manhattan

seems to be a problem here:

ya see, I thought this post was about a woman kicking the **** out of her child in public (article mentions blows to the head and kicking)

But everyone here is posting about "a few well deserved slaps on the arse" - which I myself said I have no problem with. A *few*.

Now, nobody reports people for smacking their kids. It simply does not happen. People are reported for beating the shiot out of their kids, like this woman. And when they are, they go down for it. And that, IMHO, is a good thing.

And if anyone here thinks this article means that any parent who smacks their kid is liable for arrest, I think you're all being a bit paranoid and willing to sensationalise the whole issue.

But hey. I guess it's been slow the past while ;-)

Hobart

Originally posted by Typedef
Actually Hobart you're right.

It would be much better to cling to our pig ignorant drunken Mick image for fear as being castigated as part of the minorty of Liberal, Gay loving Americans.

First it's marriage, then next thing you know.... the vote!!

Well said.

Why not change the word "our" to the word "my" and re-read what you have typed.

Typedef

Very drole Hobart.

I don't drink... not that, that's in any way relevant.

I think gays should be let marry to FYI.

Does that make me gay, and, do you really want to find out?

Boston

Originally posted by Typedef
One might also say that making underage children work in factories is 'ok' as long as you are elder and related to that child and you "don't" overexploit them.

My father worked since the age of 13 full time, as did many others in this country. I worked every summer since I was 12, with my father on building sites. No only did it do me no harm it also kept we out of allot of trouble, Thought me the value of money, Responsiblity for my own action, several skills, and helped direct my life. No if a social worker knew my father was talking his son with him onto sites what do you think the result would have been?

Draupnir

Anyone who cant tell the difference between a parent kickin the **** out of there kid and a parent givin the a clout to put them in their place isnt fit to be a parent.

Every child needs a slap at some stage in their life. Of all the children I have known I have noticed that the majority of kids who get the softly softly "talk about the problem" treatment turn into little assholes who know they can get away with murder. The fear of a clatter in the head or a slap on the arse from your Ma in front of your friends is usually enough to sort a kid out. Ive coached kids for 7 years with my local Soccer team, as part of soccer schools aswell and also volunteered at my local Scouts hall. Ive yet to meet a kid who didnt benefit from a slap on the arse or the threat of one.

Seraphina

my dad has an extremely short temper (something which i've unfortunately inherited) and slapped me regularly, tbh i probably deserved it, i was an obnoxious little ****, but i never learned my lesson or thought about why he slapped me. i screamed abuse at him when he wasn't around and resented him for years.
as i got older the slaps caused more rage and resentment because they were humiliating and frustrating because i could do nothing. i eventually began hitting back which usually ended up in me being knocked to the floor.
last few times he's raised his hand to be i've taken the slaps and left the house for a few days. he's always apologetic afterwards but thats irrelavent.
for some kids when a slap is the ultimate punishment it might work, but when used on a regular basis it just breeds resentment and hatred.

Sarky

My two cents:

Kids are very self centred until a certain age, and trying to explain why pushing little Jimmy in the mud and nicking his sweets is frowned upon by society in general won't be very effective. What does the child care? He's got all he needs, PLUS a new bag of sweets! There needs to be at least some maturity and sense of others being people too before discussion will work.

I got many a slap on the backside with the wooden spoon (which seems by this thread to be a near-universal symbol of unpleasent consequences to most posters here...) and clips round the ear. That's not because my parents were sadists, it's because I was an utter horror to them as I grew up. There was barely anything I didn't try to get away with, stuffing magazines in the toilet, emptying entire tubes of toothpaste and shampoo into a sleeping bag, running across the busy road, stealing sweets from the shop, you name it, I tried it.

If it had stopped there, I'd probably have just put the timing of the two actions (doing something naughty and getting a smack) down to coincidence, and I'd be behind bars by now. But my parents also took the time to explain what was going on. It may have been a lengthy speech on what happens when a car hits you at speed and why running across the road without looking is dangerous, or it may have been a quick "No! That's bold!", but they got the message across. It was wrong to do some things, and often there were very good reasons for their being wrong.There's no way in hell any of those smacks were capable of lasting physical damage, but a ding on the ear bloody hurts, and it certainly made me think about whether I really wanted to run the risk of getting another clip on the ear for doing something that, as was patiently explained to me already, is wrong.

When I was old enough to recognise that I wasn't the centre of the universe, they used explanations along the lines of "How would you feel if it happened to you?", and slaps eventually became a thing of the past.

When I was older still and started demanding certain privileges (I would have called them rights, I'm sure), taking away those privileges was much worse than a stinging ear. Being stuck in your room with nothing to do for the day only made me bored and resentful, and there was an AWFUL lot of friction between me and my parents from about the age of 10. Looking back, I think I might almost have preferred the wooden spoon- It was a short, sharp punishment that quickly focused your attention, not a long, vague grounding where your mind was turned to cheese from boredom. And you know what they say about idle hands.

Where am I going with this now? Let's see. I'm proud of how I turned out, and so are my parents. I'm a law-abiding, responsible person who dislikes violence and lack of discipline. And I owe it to how I was brought up, a healthy mix of fear of The Wooden Spoon followed by knowledge of why some actions are wrong. That's the key, you see: I think that slaps won't disipline a child for long on their own, and neither will just explaining the error of their ways. The two have to work together. Neither is the be-all and end-all.

MrPudding

What Sarky said.

This is pretty much how I raise my kids. I have a 5 year old girl, Seraphine, and a 15 month old boy, Loic. Seraphine does not get smacked anymore. When she was small she would get a smack on the bum. Once she got to an age where she could be reasoned with and understood the value of the priviliges she had and that they could be removed there was no longer a need to smack her bum.

Loic, on the other hand, cannot be reasoned with. He does not unterstand when you say " bad boy you not going to play outside today." It means nothing to him. So, if he is bad he gets a smack on his nappy clad bum. Does this hurt him? No. He is wearing a nappy, he does not feel it. It is the action of the smack that tells him you are displeased. The punishment does not have to hurt to be effective. Once he can be reasoned with and once he learns the value of thing that can be taken away from him he will no longer be smacked.

For me once the kid get to a certain age positive and negative re-enforcement are the way forward. In the long term they are, I feel, more effective. At the same time I hold the smack on the bum in reserve for really bad behaviour where an impression needs to be made immediatly.

As a child I got some serious smackings, I would never do this to my children. Some of you from the sounds of it have had even worse experiences. This does not, howerver, mean smacking a kid is wrong. Beating the living sh1t out of a kid is wrong but giving one a smack on the nappy is not.

Anyway that is my 2cents as someone who actually has kids and is trying to bring them up in a responsible way to be decent human beings.

MrP

vibe666

ditto to what Sarky said too. I had poretty much the same upbringing and fully intend to extend that to my kids (if and when needed of course).

all the people saying corporal punishment is wrong should open their eyes just a little bit to the state of things as a result of the tree hugging hippy attitude towards parenting that developed in the 60's and 70's and the total lack of respect for authority figures that has been widespread since the 80's and 90's as a result.

less dicipline (as much as you might hate the idea of smacking a child) leads to more anarchy, and it all starts at the beginning of a childs developement, and snowballs, until you have 10 year old gangs mugging old ladies for their pension to fund their scag addictions. the word consequences has ceased to mean anything for most kids today and as a such the rest of society has to take a beating for them, and quite often by them as a result.

we reap what we sow.

Jam

I too, was wary of the dreaded wooden spoon , which was used perhaps half a dozen times. I clearly remember one usage was the result of using the ornimental baseball bat as, well, a bat. I hit rocks with it. That wooden-spoon didn't do me any harm either. I have to wonder though, were these wooden spoons handed out to new mothers as they left the hospital? 'Here's your completmentary wooden spoon.'

Hobart

Originally posted by Typedef
Very drole Hobart.

I'm not trying to be, as you put it, drole. I simply object to you commenting on what you think may or may not be my "image". You are more than welcome to say that your views are pig-ignorant etc..... but not mine, as you don't seem to have an understanding of what mine are.

I don't drink... not that, that's in any way relevant.

If it is not relevant, why quote it then? I don't cycle a bike, not that, that's in any way relevant.

I think gays should be let marry to FYI.

I think your missing an o.

Does that make me gay, and, do you really want to find out?

Ahhh... Did'nt take you long did it? What next, the standard latin phrase followed by a link to some lesbian fantasy of yours? :rolleyes:

amp

STFU! Stop commenting on other peoples images or gay marriage or whatever the hell Typedef and Hobart are on about. This thread is about Child Slapping so, yes folks you've guessed it; it's time to GET BACK ON TOPIC!

Any reply to this warning will result in an immediate temp ban.

dr_manhattan

vibe666

all the people saying corporal punishment is wrong should open their eyes just a little bit to the state of things as a result of the tree hugging hippy attitude towards parenting that developed in the 60's and 70's and the total lack of respect for authority figures that has been widespread since the 80's and 90's as a result.

You know, diatribes like this just form the old facts out of mid air, hmm?

So the 60s and 70s, which contained FAR more rebellious behaviour than the 80s and 90s, and far less respect for authority, came from where, exactly...?

IF your logic works (which it doesn't) then surely the authoritarian parenting of the 40s and 50s, the war years and the knuckling down, the utter glorification of authority and order, actually *caused* the "tree hugging" rebellion of the 60s and 70s. Which in turn caused the general breakdown of society which you speak of in the 80s and 90s. Which leaves us here, in utter social chaos, fighting over petrol, in 2004.

Oh wait, that's right, it doesn't.

And as for your usual claptrap about it all leading to selling scag, if you can't speak factually and in sensible terms, why bother: couldm you please supply examples of kids who were spared a slap, and went on to deal heroin? Or else just leave it with the hyperbole?

I mean, wierd thing is that this thread is supposed to be about CORPORAL PUNISHMENT. Which is nothing to do with parents or kids, it's to do with PUNISHING PEOPLE WITH PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.

I mean, earlier someone asked when punishment becomes assault, and the reply given was along the lines of "later when they become an adult and can be punished by the law" - now, my understanding of the question is actually that a *parent*, being an *adult* is always eligible for an assault charge. However, all the hypothetical violence here seems to be directed towards these mystery monster children that everyone suffers so much by.

Oh and Boston, the years on the building sites when you should have been in school? It shows in your attitudes ;-)

however, given that you've spoken about college a few times, I suspect that in fact you just helped your da on the building sites on weekends. Because a social worker *would* have found out if you'd missed school to work for your da... and you wouldn't have made college with an education that finished at 12, to the best of my knowledge.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
I mean, wierd thing is that this thread is supposed to be about CORPORAL PUNISHMENT. Which is nothing to do with parents or kids, it's to do with PUNISHING PEOPLE WITH PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.

I think you meant this thread.

The one we're in now is about slapping a child. And it has to be said that (and this comes from a sister of mine who studied psychology in college) there are studies out there that show that below a certain age a child cannot respond properly to reason, they just aren't developed enough. A light tap intended more to shock than hurt is a far more effective disciplinary tool than taking away privileges that they probably don't even notice when they're gone.

That said it is very hard to legally allow such a 'light tap' without opening the doors for all sorts of child-beating shenanigans. Like you said, no-one is going to report anybody for a light tap.

edit: I wish I could spell proper, loike

weemcd

http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

that is all

LoneGunM@n

As most people have already said, growing up I was given a few slaps by my mam [my dad never hit me] for being a little sh!t & I believe rightly deserved too ... but I was always given out to first (i.e. first warning) followed by a slap if I kept it up. I do believe that these slaps, though few and far between, did me no harm.

I hope that I never have to slap my future children as I always believed that a man should never hit a child [or a woman] ... but I also believe that the good cop, bad cop routine that would result (i.e. dad gives out & mam slaps) is the worst form of parenting that there is ... so slapping for me would always be considered a last resort.

Whilst I agree with some of the points the no to slapping side have given [mainly those being where some people have a problem seeing where a slap ends and assault begins], I would like to pose a real situation (I have seen it happen) to you, as I'd like to see what you would suggest, because if my kids turn out like this I'll be tearing my hair out!

My Aunt has 3 children, 2 of which are boys [who are complete monsters]!! From watching the parents in action, I cannot fault anything that they've done, bar 1 thing!! When the boys are bold, the parents give out to them & then explain to them why they are being given out too. The childrens' carrying on goes on for a while, then the parents decide that enough is enough & ground them, telling them to go to their rooms. The boys refuse to go to their rooms, so the father trys to lead them to their rooms, at which time they start biting, punching, kicking and screaming abuse at him. I have never seen them being slapped by either parent.

So here is my question, what would you do?

dr_manhattan

What are the ages involved, would be my first question -

but generally speaking my reply would be that I'm not saying that hitting kids is absolutely wrong in every circumstance: I'm just reacting to an assertion that a woman being reported for kicking and beating her kids in public amounts to a "police state".

I'm curious about this example though, so do please answer my question above and I'll try and answer.

meanwhile, apologies, and thanks silent bob. I got the wrong thtead earlier ;-)

I think the most important thing to remember is that giving a kid a smack (i.e. a ritual designed to sting and reprimand and remind) is very different to kicking the **** out of your kids. I think most of the smacking described here goes into the former category, but i think the news article is definitely the latter.

And I'm happy with a situation where the former happens, but the latter is punished legally. I don't think it's the state's job to interfere in every element of social behaviour, just the dangerous ones.

LoneGunM@n

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
What are the ages involved, would be my first question

Sorry about that ... another example of thinking something & my fingers ignoring it

They are 8 and 12 (I think) ... maybe a bit younger :dunno:

martarg

My Aunt has 3 children, 2 of which are boys [who are complete monsters]!! From watching the parents in action, I cannot fault anything that they've done, bar 1 thing!! When the boys are bold, the parents give out to them & then explain to them why they are being given out too. The childrens' carrying on goes on for a while, then the parents decide that enough is enough & ground them, telling them to go to their rooms. The boys refuse to go to their rooms, so the father trys to lead them to their rooms, at which time they start biting, punching, kicking and screaming abuse at him. I have never seen them being slapped by either parent.

Well, I believe in this case the parents have allowed their kids to go too far. Maybe this is a case of a good slap in time saves nine? :dunno: I don’t know what I would do at this stage, but one thing is certain, I would never (knowingly) let things get to the point were my kids would be the ones hitting me. Those kids do not respect their parents, and it is impossible to discipline someone who doesn’t respect you. I also think it is pretty telling that the father actually finds it necessary to physically lead the children to their rooms. I don’t know how that would work, if they have refused to obey in the first place.... So first thing, perhaps let those children know that hitting a parent is a capital offence, and find the toughest possible form of (non-physical) punishment for it, according to the children’s weak spots... no more telly and videogames, household chores instead? On the other hand, perhaps a slap at this point would be shocking enough to redefine the power relations within the family, but I don’t really know, it depends a lot on the particular situation and the people involved... it would also take a little of psychology work to know the kids’ motivations and the way to deal with them...

Boston

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
Oh and Boston, the years on the building sites when you should have been in school? It shows in your attitudes ;-)

however, given that you've spoken about college a few times, I suspect that in fact you just helped your da on the building sites on weekends. Because a social worker *would* have found out if you'd missed school to work for your da... and you wouldn't have made college with an education that finished at 12, to the best of my knowledge.

What attitude? Anyway yea just the summers.

LoneGunM@n

Originally posted by martarg
Well, I believe in this case the parents have allowed their kids to go too far. Maybe this is a case of a good slap in time saves nine? I don’t know what I would do at this stage, but one thing is certain, I would never (knowingly) let things get to the point were my kids would be the ones hitting me. Those kids do not respect their parents, and it is impossible to discipline someone who doesn’t respect you. I also think it is pretty telling that the father actually finds it necessary to physically lead the children to their rooms. I don’t know how that would work, if they have refused to obey in the first place.... So first thing, perhaps let those children know that hitting a parent is a capital offence, and find the toughest possible form of (non-physical) punishment for it, according to the children’s weak spots... no more telly and videogames, household chores instead? On the other hand, perhaps a slap at this point would be shocking enough to redefine the power relations within the family, but I don’t really know, it depends a lot on the particular situation and the people involved... it would also take a little of psychology work to know the kids’ motivations and the way to deal with them...

I agree with you on all the points raised ... As far as I'm concerned, the parents allowed it to get to this stage ... In relation to my original point

From watching the parents in action, I cannot fault anything that they've done, bar 1 thing!!

the 1 thing would have been a slap!