child support and father rights

Da_cOmRaDe_MiKe

i assume this is in the right forum!!

hope it is other wise fox please move it accordingly!

cheers m8.

just some information needed here lads. hope some1 can help!!

if i have a child due in 7 weeks, and im not getting on with the mother, what rights do i have as a father? what are the rights of custody and maintanance?

and how much is child support? is there a fixed ammount or does it vary?

what about paternity tests? who pays for them? me or her?

if she stops me seeing the child indefinatly, is maintance suspended? or do i have to pay her money and not be allowed to see the child?

just wondering? any thoughts lads? thanks.

mike.

Yavvy

Maintenance orders and agreements in Ireland

* Rules
* Rates
* How to apply
* Where to apply

There is a legal responsibility in Ireland on both spouses to maintain each other and any children in accordance with their means. Maintenance can be paid periodically (i.e., weekly or monthly) or in a lump sum. In Ireland, paying maintenance does not in itself give a parent access or guardianship rights.
Voluntary maintenance

In situations where parents are unmarried or separated, they can make informal agreements regarding maintenance. This can work well where parents are reasonable and fair - but it is difficult to assess informally how much maintenance should be paid. You might consider sitting down and writing out the actual expenses (weekly, monthly, etc.) of the child. If you find it difficult to come to an arrangement which satisfies both parties, you may find that mediation can help. Alternatively, each parent can engage their own legal advice who will act as negotiator of an agreement. Both parents can then sign this agreement which can later be made a rule of court. A rule of court means that these agreements have the same effect as a maintenance order (see below). A solicitor cannot act for both parents in this situation, given there may be conflicts of interest.

Informal agreements such as this can include a property transfer or a lump sum payment but it cannot rule out the possibility of applying for a maintence order through the courts in the future.
Maintenance Orders

If the parties cannot agree upon maintenance, either party can apply to court for a maintenance order. An application for maintenance can be brought either in the District or Circuit Court.

A person seeking a maintenance order can represent himself or herself. However, a person seeking a maintenance order should always check to see if they are eligible for legal aid or contact a private solicitor to assess the cost of the application. The cost of the application can be awarded against the party refusing to pay maintenance if a judge considers it appropriate.

Maintenance can be awarded to a spouse for their own benefit or for the benefit of a child who is under the age of 18, or 23 if the child is in full-time education. However, if the child has a mental or physical disability to such a degree that it will not be possible for them to maintain themselves fully, then there is no age limit for seeking maintence for their support. Each party must disclose their finances to the court and the judge will consider all of the family's circumstances when making a maintenance order.

In cases where a spouse fails to comply with a court order and pay the amount awarded, an Attachment of Earnings Order can be sought if the person is in employment, on social welfare or on a private pension. This order results in the maintenance amount being deducted at source by the spouse's employer or the Department of Social and Family Affairs.

The District Court in making a maintenance order can direct that the payment under the order shall be made to the District Court Clerk if the court considers that it would be proper to do so. The Circuit Court may as part of its order direct that a maintenance order is payable through the District Court. The District Court has a fully computerised payments system for the receipt and transmission of payments received. All payments received are immediately dispatched to the receiving spouse on the day received. A fully computerised print out of all payments is available to either party on request.

Maintenance orders can be enforced in all European Union countries and in countries that are a party to the UN Convention on the Recovery Abroad of Maintenance Payments.
Maintenance following Separation and Divorce

Under Irish law, there is no clean break from the obligation to support one's spouse and children. A clause in a Separation Agreement stating that a spouse will not seek maintenance in the future or seek increased maintenance is unenforceable. The spouse can apply for a maintenance order and a court will consider this application, particularly if the circumstances of the parties have changed or the spouse who executed the agreement did not have legal advice at the time.

A divorced spouse can also apply to a court for a maintenance order or a variation of a maintenance order after the Divorce Decree has been granted. The only bar to an application is the remarriage of the spouse applying for the order.
Rules

If you wish to appeal the decision of the court about a maintenance order, you can do so within 14 days or apply to the court for an extension of time to appeal. You should seek legal advice regarding your appeal.
Rates

If both parties agree, the amount of maintenance to be paid can be agreed between the parties. If the parties cannot agree on the amont of maintenance to be paid, it will be necessary to apply to the District or Circuit Court, depending on the amount of maintenance that is sought.

At present, the District Court can award any amount up to 500 euro per week for a spouse, and 150 euro per week for each child. If sums greater than these amounts are being sought, you will need to apply to the Circuit Court.
Varying the amount of maintenance

It is advisable to updated weekly maintenance payments annually. Where maintenance orders have been made through the courts, either parent can at a later date apply to the court to have the amount varied. (Varied means having the amount increased or decreased). In order to do this, you will require a 'Variation Order'.
Arrears of maintenance

If a parent falls behind with payments where there is a maintenance order in place, then it is possible to apply to the court for an Attachment of Earnings Summons. It is possible to get this Attachment at the time when you apply for the maintenance order if you fear there may be a default. (In other words, you fear that the other parent may fail to comply with the maintenance order). If the parent is self-employed, an Enforcement Summons can be applied for.

If the father lives abroad, you should contact the Central Authority for Maintenance Recovery (see 'Where to apply'). You must have an address for the father in order that a summons can be served. This process may be lengthy but generally involves no legal costs.

If the father lives in the UK, you can apply for maintenance to your local District court here in Ireland. Staff in your local court will guide you through this process.
How to apply

A person seeking a maintenance order can go to their local District Court and get the Court Clerk to issue a Maintenance Summons against the other spouse. Legal advice and representation is always advisable. To enquire whether you are eligible for Legal Aid, contact your nearest law centre. The law centre staff will assess your means and advise on financial eligibility. Legal Aid is not free and everyone must pay a contribution towards costs. The minimum is 5.08 euro, the maximum charge is 29.20 euro if you go to court. Download an application form for Legal Services and a Financial Assessment form and bring this with you to your nearest law centre.

FLAC (or Free Legal Advice Centre) is a non-governmental organisation which promotes and operates a range of services to meet the legal needs of those living in poverty. FLAC operate a network of legal advice clinics throughout Dublin and in the Cork area. If you live outside Dublin or Cork you can also obtain free advice and information by contacting FLAC at the telephone number or e-mail address below.

FLAC clinics are confidential, free of charge and open to all. You do not have to make an appointment and there are no application forms to complete.
Where to apply
The Legal Aid Board,
Quay Street
Caherciveen
Co. Kerry
Tel: (066) 947 1000
E-mail: legalaid@eircom.net
Free Legal Advice Centres,
49 South William Street, Dublin 2
Tel: (01) 679 4239
E-mail: info@flac.ie
Central Authority for Maintenance Recovery,
43/49 Mespil Road,
Dublin 4.
Tel: (01) 667 0344
Treoir (Federation of Services for Unmarried Parents and Children),
14 Gandon House,
Lower Mayor Street,
IFSC,
Dublin 1.
Tel: (01) 6700 120

Yavvy

Guardianship status of fathers in Ireland

All mothers in Ireland, irrespective of whether they are married or unmarried, have automatic guardianship status in relation to their children, unless they give the child up for adoption. A father who is married to the mother of his child also has automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. This applies even if the couple married after the birth of the child. The rights of parents to guardianship are set down in Section 6 the Guardianship of Infants Act, 1964. Guardianship rights entitle a parent to make important decisions regarding that child's upbringing, for example, deciding on the child's religion, education, medical treatment and where he/she lives.

However, a father who is not married to the mother of his child does not have automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. If the mother agrees for him to be legally appointed guardian, they must sign a joint statutory declaration. The statutory declaration (SI 5 of 1998) must be signed in the presence of a Peace Commissioner or a Commissioner for Oaths. If there is more than one child, a separate statutory declaration should be made for each.

If the mother does not agree for him to have guardianship, he may apply for this status to the District Court.

However, he may be removed as guardian at a future date whereas a father married to the mother of the child is normally guardian for life.

Yavvy

I Think someone posted a link about parternity tests on PI a few months back ... do a search .

But I would say you have to pay for it and It costs a few quid too !


Good luck with it all mate, Its a tough situation your in. I was almost init my self about 3 years ago, scared the daylights outta me. If the baby is yours congratulations !!! theres nothing better...and if its not, well then at least you will have that woman outta your life !!

dahamsta

Originally posted by Alany
I Think someone posted a link about parternity tests on PI a few months back ... do a search .

Me?

Unt here is ze result of zis experimunt, mit hiss sista!

adam

Yavvy

Congrats Man !

dahamsta

Thank Alany!

adam /chest swells with pride

The Corinthian

Da_cOmRaDe_MiKe wrote: »

if i have a child due in 7 weeks, and im not getting on with the mother, what rights do i have as a father?

In short, bugger all. If you persue your rights, you can get guardianship which gives you certain basic rights, but in practice even these are pretty much meaningless. Plenty of fathers have been sent to jail for non-payment of maintenance, while to date not a single mother has for denying access or even in the case of paternity fraud.

and how much is child support? is there a fixed ammount or does it vary?

Limits exist at district and circuit court levels, of which the former has a limit of €150 p.w. per child. If the mother wants more she would need to take it to a higher court, but accordingly there are costs involved and unless the father is earning over €100,000 per year, it's probably a waste of time/money to do so. Your savings and debts are also taken into account - so if you've saved a deposit to buy a house, I suggest you buy it now.

So you're probably looking at a maximum of €150 p.w., but given that judges are notoriously fickle in their judgments this could mean a guy on €30,000 p.a. could be ordered to pay €45 p.w. by one and €90 by another.

How it is calculated is, in theory, based upon the income and expenditure of both parents and the needs of the child as both parents are expected to contribute financially. So if you're employed and she's on LPA, they'll look to you for the bulk of it, and if both of you are employed they'll look more at a 50-50 split.

What is important is that you keep records of everything, payments, related expenditures, etc. Also formally write to her offering reasonable maintenance and seeking mediation to sort out the problems between you so you are seen to have done everything to avoid litigation in good faith. If she refuses and brings you to court, this will reflect badly on her.

what about paternity tests? who pays for them? me or her?

Generally whoever wants to prove or disprove paternity, however costs may be awarded against the other party if it does not go their way.

if she stops me seeing the child indefinatly, is maintance suspended? or do i have to pay her money and not be allowed to see the child?

Seeing the child (access) and maintenance are completely separate issues. If she blocks you from seeing the child, you cannot withhold maintenance, likewise if you withhold maintenance she cannot block you from seeing the child.

deltamike

Does anybody out there know if i am legally obliged to pay maintenance for my 19 year old daughter who works 2 part time jobs during the summer months, drives a bigger car than i do, and intends going to college in September, but not sure if she will get into college? I do have a court order in place to pay until she leaves full time education, or is in "full time" employment.
John

The Corinthian

deltamike wrote: »

Does anybody out there know if i am legally obliged to pay maintenance for my 19 year old daughter who works 2 part time jobs during the summer months, drives a bigger car than i do, and intends going to college in September, but not sure if she will get into college?

Yes, you are obliged to do so. If she does not get into college, then you may go to court to have the court order terminated or suspended.

I do have a court order in place to pay until she leaves full time education, or is in "full time" employment.

I would doubt that - otherwise a 'child' could simply stay unemployed for the rest of your life and continue collecting maintenance.

If not in full time education and over 18, the onus is on the 'child' to get a job and support themselves. It's called being an adult.

SpiceRack

Hi,

Just looking for some help. I recently had a young daughter and pay maintance of €300 a month. The social has now written to me to up this payment to €400.i don't think think is unfair,however as my child lives in cork and i live in dublin teh travel expenses to vitis her are €50+ for each trip. Is this taken into account when teh social calcuates how much maintance should be paid. at present it is only me making teh trip teh mother has only made teh trip to Dublin 5 times since she was born last year.

When i met the mother she was working in dublin and when the child came decided to move to Cork without given me an option or choice in teh matter.

Need help here coz with travel and the hike in payments it's going to very difficult to maintain the travel tyo see my daughter and afford to live and travel to work asweel..

Any help would be great.

Thanks

Ash.J.Williams

Ask your solicitor to check your income and expenditure and see if you can afford €400, you have to live too, and I believe your costs etc are part of maintenance, So if you are paying €300 and your travel costs to see your kid are €100, then you are paying €400.....(i think)

The Corinthian

As child maintenance is the costs relating to the child (paid for by both parents, btw), then the cost for your child to have access to her father would be part of this.

As to the DSW writing to you, I believe that this is simply a case of 'shaking the tree' to see what they can get as maintenance from you will get deducted from payments the mother will get. There's been a number of cases of this occurring and, from what I gather, it's all bluff.

The only person who can bring you to court for maintenance is the mother, they cannot force you to do anything. They could threaten to withhold payments to her if she doesn't bring you to court, but I suspect that would be seriously dodgy ground, legally, to stand on for them.

I would respond to their letter, via registered letter, requesting further information under what powers they are legally entitled to make this demand of you. If they reply, bring that to a solicitor, but my guess is that they're just bluffing and you'll never hear from them again.

SpiceRack

Thanks for you help on that, I was thinking of going straight to a solictor but I'll write back to them first and see what they say with my expenses relating to seeing my child.

Thansk again

The Corinthian

SpiceRack wrote: »

Thanks for you help on that, I was thinking of going straight to a solictor but I'll write back to them first and see what they say with my expenses relating to seeing my child.

Your expenses relating to seeing your child are none of their business. I'd first write (registered post) and clarify under what powers they can actually demand that you pay more. If they reply, then you can go to a solicitor.

The reality is that you could increase maintenance, but ultimately, it'll get deducted from payments to the mother (principally from rent allowance) and your child will not see a penny of the increase. From the stories I've heard, the whole thing is a scam to try and get social welfare spending for lone parents down.

It's quite a sickenly cynical strategy, when you think about it.

SpiceRack

Cheers for that.

Drafting up a letter as we speak with my outgoing and expenses. Your dead right tho if i increase the payents it gets taken from the mams money she gets off teh social so the little one gets no benifit from it whatsever..

The only thing that may happen is i can't afford to see her as much as wed like and teh mother will lose out too coz she would have no time to herself if i have to cut my visits..

I'll let you know how i get on.

Thanks again

The Corinthian

SpiceRack wrote: »

Drafting up a letter as we speak with my outgoing and expenses. Your dead right tho if i increase the payents it gets taken from the mams money she gets off teh social so the little one gets no benifit from it whatsever..

Noooooo!

I meant that your first letter should be to clarify if any of your financial details are their (legal) business in the first place. Until that's clarified, you've no obligation to share any private information with them, let alone follow their instructions.

Only seek clarification under what powers they are presently employing to demand further payments from you and to please forward to you the necessary information regarding this, in writing.

I'll let you know how i get on.

Please do. It's not the first time someone's come here seeking info on this and the more examples of how things work out (especially if it is just a bluff) the better for those who'll seek advice in the future. Even if you don't hear back from them, report that back after three months.

SpiceRack

Hey,

i get you now i'll scrap the first letter and start again. Cheers.

Yeah i'll definatly post how i get on as it took me a while to find anything useful and this seemed the only thing that has helped so far.

Cheers

Royal Legend

Similar question in relation to maintenance.

How can you make sure there is a record of maintenance payments to the mother? The mother is on LPA and her ex is working (minimum wage) They were living together for a while but it did not work out, plus he was paying €150/week for rent and food when they were living together and now it appears that she was not paying the rent whatsoever for at least the last six weeks, add to this that he paid the deposit on the house, he is wary of how he pays the maintenance, as she will probably claim in the future that she got nothing. Should it be a draft or a postal order or has anyone any other ideas? Should he consult a solicitor. The child is well looked after by his parents when he comes to visit, clothes, nappies, etc, The issue is trusting this person to even admitshe got anything in the first place.

Moonbeam

bank transfer or cheque would leave a paper trail.

The Corinthian

Getting her to sign and date a receipt for the amount (stated on the receipt) is technically another way of doing this, but it may naturally result in her taking offence or even refusing to do so (especially if she specifically wants no paper trail).

If he doesn't have a chequebook, then he can buy them in the bank; he can have one made out to her by name, pay the bank in cash (both the maintenance and fee for the cheque) and he'll also get a receipt for the cheque, that he should keep as his record.

But bank transfer is by far the best option.

Royal Legend

He does not want her to have any of his bank details, can the account number be masked as regards the transfer?

The Corinthian

Royal Legend wrote: »

He does not want her to have any of his bank details, can the account number be masked as regards the transfer?

No. I suggest he opens up a new account in a different bank specifically for this purpose, if he does not want her to have any details to his actual bank account.

annie1984

I have read through all your comments and want to know if anyone knows the answers to my questions, first my Fiance and I are getting married in a few weeks,he has a child from a previous marriage and we have two children.We want to take his other child along with our own on honeymoon,but his ex wife won't let the child go,and the child is gutted,and has told the child to stop asking or she won't let the child go to the wedding either.Is there anyway we can get her to let the child go on holidays with us and her sibling's?In their divorce agreement it states that they have 50/50 custody, and the way he pays maintenance is by having the child and buying school necessities , clothes, Christmas and Birthday presents,he pays for medications,doctors,chiropidist appointments,plus social activities and anything needed for them, and anything else she needs.He doesn't work,and his ex does and gets the child benefit payment,but now is denying him access when it suits her and says she wants money as well as all that. Where do I stand when we get married, will my income come into it then? thanks from Annie

Ash.J.Williams

Da_cOmRaDe_MiKe wrote: »

i assume this is in the right forum!!

hope it is other wise fox please move it accordingly!

cheers m8.

just some information needed here lads. hope some1 can help!!

if i have a child due in 7 weeks, and im not getting on with the mother, what rights do i have as a father? what are the rights of custody and maintanance?

and how much is child support? is there a fixed ammount or does it vary?

what about paternity tests? who pays for them? me or her?

if she stops me seeing the child indefinatly, is maintance suspended? or do i have to pay her money and not be allowed to see the child?

just wondering? any thoughts lads? thanks.

mike.

man...all i can say is do your very best to remain friendly...if things are bad...don't try and force it, just spend time apart and try and remain friends, if you can manage that life will be easy...if not then you are on the back foot.

The Corinthian

My understanding is that you don't stand anywhere with regard to his child.

If he has 50-50 custody, then I would imagine that he has his days of custody and she has hers and what happens on his days are really none of her business, unless he brings the child out of the country, which he cannot do without her consent or through the courts.

For the rest, I'd agree with Ash.J.Williams that your fiancée is very much in a disadvantaged position as his ex can probably do what she likes with little fear of a court punishing her, so ideally working out a compromise with her is best.

Overall, he'd need to see a solicitor on this as, frankly, unless someone has gone through this exact experience here, it seems like too complex a scenario for us amateurs to give a competent answer.

annie1984

The Corinthian wrote: »

My understanding is that you don't stand anywhere with regard to his child.

If he has 50-50 custody, then I would imagine that he has his days of custody and she has hers and what happens on his days are really none of her business, unless he brings the child out of the country, which he cannot do without her consent or through the courts.

For the rest, I'd agree with Ash.J.Williams that your fiancée is very much in a disadvantaged position as his ex can probably do what she likes with little fear of a court punishing her, so ideally working out a compromise with her is best.

Overall, he'd need to see a solicitor on this as, frankly, unless someone has gone through this exact experience here, it seems like too complex a scenario for us amateurs to give a competent answer.

Thanks yeah that's what I've told him to do, but no they have no agreed days its more based on when she needs him because she has to work. Thanks

Ash.J.Williams

annie1984 wrote: »

Thanks yeah that's what I've told him to do, but no they have no agreed days its more based on when she needs him because she has to work. Thanks

that's pretty much it in a nutshell! sad but true.

Ash.J.Williams

annie1984 wrote: »

I have read through all your comments and want to know if anyone knows the answers to my questions, first my Fiance and I are getting married in a few weeks,he has a child from a previous marriage and we have two children.We want to take his other child along with our own on honeymoon,but his ex wife won't let the child go,and the child is gutted,and has told the child to stop asking or she won't let the child go to the wedding either.Is there anyway we can get her to let the child go on holidays with us and her sibling's?In their divorce agreement it states that they have 50/50 custody, and the way he pays maintenance is by having the child and buying school necessities , clothes, Christmas and Birthday presents,he pays for medications,doctors,chiropidist appointments,plus social activities and anything needed for them, and anything else she needs.He doesn't work,and his ex does and gets the child benefit payment,but now is denying him access when it suits her and says she wants money as well as all that. Where do I stand when we get married, will my income come into it then? thanks from Annie

How about a friendly solicitors letter...(i know it's not friendly to see them amongst the post...) ?? My solicitor and my ex's seemed to get on fine and were always able to hammer out deals that suited both parties ...even over the phone.
It's not a big ask to have a child accompany their siblings and family on a holiday....or is it the fact that's a HONEYMOON that is causing the issue?

The Corinthian

annie1984 wrote: »

Thanks yeah that's what I've told him to do, but no they have no agreed days its more based on when she needs him because she has to work.

So it's 50-50, except she has the last word on his 50%. Not good.

He probably needs to sit down with her and let her know that the current system isn't working as it is clearly not 50-50 in terms of rights and it is open to abuse, which clearly it is.

If they can't hammer out a clear set of rules, including the option for flexibility, whereby each knows where they stand, then I would recommend discussing the matter with a solicitor.

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

How about a friendly solicitors letter...

Depends how she reacts to that. For many, that can be taken as an act of war.

annie1984

I personally thinks ots juat trying to cause trouble and although she's living with someone else she just doesn't want to see us happy. Like everythimg has been ok ish over the past 10years

The Corinthian

annie1984 wrote: »

I personally thinks ots juat trying to cause trouble and although she's living with someone else she just doesn't want to see us happy. Like everythimg has been ok ish over the past 10years

Wouldn't be the first time, if that's the case.

I'd concentrate on a reasonable effort to come to a compromise, followed by taking the legal route (although that may not be resolved in time for your wedding) if I were your fiancée. Her motivations, especially if less than altruistic, will inevitably come out in court if it comes to that, so I wouldn't dwell on them for now.

wolfpawnat

My mother didn't want us going to my father's wedding. I guess she was annoyed he'd gotten on with his life or something. But thankfully at 14 and 17 we made our positions clear. Horrible she won't let the little one on the Honeymoon with you both, clearly the child would be excited about it and fair dues for including them, many wouldn't. As others have said, try talking to her, if not if there is time for the legal route go for it, if not, I dunno

Camusky

Hi,

Just one question relating to my own circumstances.

Does anyone know how child maintenance is calculated?
Is it based on income or on income and any savings?
I am on welfare but I have some savings.
Am I expected to spend any savings to pay maintenance?
How would a judge look at this?

Cheers.

wmpdd3

If you claim you cannot pay the appropriate amount of child maintenance due to limited means, then you would have to explain why you think you savings are not means.

Camusky

wmpdd3,

Thanks very much for your post.

Without wanting to be too pedantic about it I don't see how having one asset type, (some) savings is different from owing a car or a house for example. I don't have a house, I rent, but I have a car. Would I be expected to sell my car to maintain the current level of maintenance?

(By the way, I have always paid and continue to pay maintenance. My difficulty is with the level of maintenance. I am seeking to have it reduced.)

My car is 10 years old. If I bought a newer car and exhausted any savings I have then I would have the same income (social welfare) and zero savings.

I would then not be able to maintain the current level of maintenance.
Similarly, if I decided to move to better accomodation and paid a higher rent, this would soon exhaust any savings.

I live very frugally. I don't see how the fact that I am careful with money should be held against me.

I'd appreciate your opinion on this again or if you are aware of the legal niceties of income versus means, I'd appreciate it.


Thanks again.

The Corinthian

Camusky wrote: »

Without wanting to be too pedantic about it I don't see how having one asset type, (some) savings is different from owing a car or a house for example. I don't have a house, I rent, but I have a car. Would I be expected to sell my car to maintain the current level of maintenance?

I don't believe a judge can direct you to specifically do something like sell your car, but they can set maintenance at a level where you'll realistically be forced to. It really depends on the judge, and their mood, on the day.

I live very frugally. I don't see how the fact that I am careful with money should be held against me.

Unfortunately it is. Child and spousal maintenance, division of assets in divorce, damages awarded against you in civil cases, social welfare and so on, all seem to work on the principle of the one who plays the poor-mouth best wins in Ireland.

In practical terms it encourages people to either spend or hide whatever they have, because the more you have the worse off you'll be when it comes to maintenance, of any type, or (means-tested) social welfare payments being decided.

Of course, if you're looking to go to court in the near future, it's too late for you to do anything now, as suddenly a big chunk of your savings 'vanishing' just before being assessed will obviously look like you're trying to minimize what you have to pay, and a judge may punish you for this by setting an unrealistically high level.

In your situation, I might be tempted to delay seeking a motion of variance of maintenance for a few months, so as to give yourself the time to make yourself look 'poorer' without looking like you're doing so simply for the benefit of the courts.

It'll mean you'll have to pay the higher level for the next few months, but in the long run you'll pay less.

Until, that is, you're brought to court again for another motion of variance; after all, the other party can do this too (multiple times a year if they so wish), so you're going to have to continue playing the 'poor-mouth' for a long time to come if you want to protect assets such as savings.

SpiceRack

Hi People,

i posted a While back in relation to the Welfare contacting me and asking me to nearly double my maintanice payments to the morther of my child. On advice given to me i wore a Registered letter back to them refusing to raise the payments as it would put me under severe pressure financially and effect my realtionship with my Child in Return and also asking them on what ground they could make me pay and asked to to outline the excact reasons for the increase.

Upon Writing this letter back in January I have heard nothing since. And the treat to decrease the Welfare payments to the morher has not been done either. As adviced to me i think this letter was just to shake teh tree and see if they could squeeze me for more cash.

If anything further arises out of this i will update the thread. Fingers crossed it doesn't tho.

Thanks again for help and advise given.

Camusky

Corinthian,

Thanks for your post.

My biggest mistake was the level of maintenance I agreed to originally. It was not ordered by a court after examining both sets of financial circumstances. Family and friends at the time thought I was crazy. It wasn't that I was on good money then either. Taking the maintenance I pay, including the same contribution from my ex, who has a good job, and adding in child benefit, it all comes to a very tidy sum. Friends with kids can't believe it.

I am hoping that on a full examination of the financial facts that a court will
reduce the level of maintenance substantially. However, I've been in the District Court before and they are so busy most cases get a very perusary examination of the facts.

I hate talking about all this financial stuff to be honest. I have a gourgeous young daughter who is the love of my life. However, to be a better Dad I need to have some quality of life also.

Thanks again for your post.

The Corinthian

Camusky wrote: »

My biggest mistake was the level of maintenance I agreed to originally. It was not ordered by a court after examining both sets of financial circumstances. Family and friends at the time thought I was crazy. It wasn't that I was on good money then either.

It's not unusual for that to happen; such is the euphoria of becoming a father you don't work out if you can actually afford to pay that amount. When you do realize, the mother has gotten used to the amount and refuses to accept a decrease - I presume this is the case with you, otherwise if she supports the decrease, then the judge won't bother with any financial examination and just rule accordingly.

However, I've been in the District Court before and they are so busy most cases get a very perusary examination of the facts.

Then make it very simple for them to read - give them a one page summary, along with all the more detailed documents that back up the summary.

However, to be a better Dad I need to have some quality of life also.

Depends on what judge you get on the day and what mood they're in.

Unfortunately Irish law all too often treats fathers as little more than ATM's, undeserving of quality of life.

jawacz

Surely posters have more questions.

Worried1

Hi Just wondering anyone out there with a bit of advice for me. It concerns my brother who has been living with his partner for over seven years and have 2 children. He only found out that his partner had taken his children and cleaned out the house (helped by her parents who travelled over) and moved to Scotland (originally from) this had been well planned as the child starts school today. He is a long distance truck driver. What does he do next. All advice welcome as we are stumped…..

pwurple

Worried1 wrote: »

Hi Just wondering anyone out there with a bit of advice for me. It concerns my brother who has been living with his partner for over seven years and have 2 children. He only found out that his partner had taken his children and cleaned out the house (helped by her parents who travelled over) and moved to Scotland (originally from) this had been well planned as the child starts school today. He is a long distance truck driver. What does he do next. All advice welcome as we are stumped…..

Did he ever get around to becoming the legal guardian of the children (this would have been either through marriage to their mother, or through a solicitor separately per child), or is he still a legal stranger to them? He will have more rights as a guardian.

Worried1

No engaged but not married. Never thought he needed to apply for guardianship unfortunately.

The Corinthian

Worried1 wrote: »

No engaged but not married. Never thought he needed to apply for guardianship unfortunately.

Then he is legally a stranger to his children; i.e. he has absolutely no legal rights under Irish law.

Thing is that they're in Scotland, which means that his rights as a father are governed by Scottish law. Unfortunately, from what I gather Scottish, English, Welsh and NI law are at best only marginally less backward than Irish law in this regard.

He should also consider that under Irish law, he also could be liable to pay not only maintenance for his children, but also for their mother, given their lengthy cohabitation.

He should contact a solicitor ASAP.

pwurple

+1 to what The Corinthian has said above.

Your brother left himself wide open legally unfortunately by neither getting guardianship arranged, or by being married to the mother of his children.

He now has 0 legal right to access his children. I really wish more men were more aware of this stuff. It ends up in right messes when things go wrong. Very sad. Very similar to the messes people leave behind by never getting around to making a will.


On whether the de facto relationship makes him liable for maintenance.... I wouldn't be sure. Contact a solicitor, see below for an extract from this UCD paper on legal rights of de facto relationships
http://www.ucd.ie/esc/research/defacto.pdf

In such circumstances, maintenance may be sought from either
parent, regardless of their marital status. The legislation does not permit an
application seeking direct provision in respect of a non-marital partner. Additionally,
although legislation permits a parent to seek maintenance from a spouse or former
spouse on behalf of a child who, though not a child of the former, was treated as a
child of the family, this facility does not apply in the case of a de facto partner of the
parent.

The Corinthian

pwurple wrote: »

I really wish more men were more aware of this stuff.

I'd imagine it would be a pretty awkward thing to bring up even if a man were aware of it. After all, while with guardianship there are practical considerations (who has custody if something happens to the mother) I've found that a man seeking guardianship is often treated on a par with asking for a pre-nup (you'll see threads appear on this every now and then). I suspect many men put it on the long finger because they're afraid to broach the subject.

Worried1

Thanks for your replies. I will get him to contact a solicitor asap.

pwurple

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'd imagine it would be a pretty awkward thing to bring up even if a man were aware of it. After all, while with guardianship there are practical considerations (who has custody if something happens to the mother) I've found that a man seeking guardianship is often treated on a par with asking for a pre-nup (you'll see threads appear on this every now and then). I suspect many men put it on the long finger because they're afraid to broach the subject.

Yeah, people prefer a good head-in-the-sand approach to legal practicalities in general. You should see the reaction when you ask people if they have a will made... it's like you just threatened to shoot them yourself.

clairefontaine

This is not legal advice. This is what I would do. I would call every single Sherrifs office in Scotland, even if it took me years to do it. I would never give up on my family.

I would call every primary or secondary school in Scotland too.

If the parents were over, chances are that is where she is and chances are he knows where that is. I would move on this fast, first port of call, local Sherrifs office.

If he is named on the birthcertificate, in the vast majority of countries, that is enough to secure rights.

bagsy

Hey,

I'm sure this has been addressed many times but I was wondering if anyone could advise me on my current situation.

I used to earn €1,218 net per fortnight until the recent budget cut left me down €100 net. I pay €240 maintenance per month as well paying half of any bills including holidays, birthdays, xmas, school books, sports expenses etc.

I play a very active part in all aspects of my child's life and wouldn't have it any other way. I have worked hard to have a really good relationship with the mother and all her family which has led to many stress free years.

My issue now is should I threaten this with money discussions? My decreased wages will certainly effect my lifestyle but I usually decide to say nothing. I broached the issue a few weeks back and got the usual response ie she doesn't want to know about it. I said I would look into it further and so have been trying to research it. I don't know too many people in a similar situation so was hoping someone out there might have experience.

To be honest all I want out of this is an equitable split of expenses. Our child stays with the mother for the majority of the week and with me at the weekend. I collect from school 3 days a week and do homework or whatever else may arise.

Anyways thats my lot , any advice would be great.

Cheers