Linux-based Internet Cafe

MeatProduct

Originally posted by pickarooney
So just change the icons. You only need about five - browser, (a)MSN/(g)AIM, counterstrike, burn and (open)office for most people.
I reckon you'll attract more people with slightly lower prices than you'll turn away with no windows start button (not that you can't just skin KDE up with an XP theme).
You could conceivably have just one main server and a load of dumb terminals for the non-gaming section of the café, and have actual user accounts on the server (ah, all my lovely bookmarks are saved!), sell membership to the café etc. etc. Once you know what kind of user base you're going to have you can tailor the place to suit their needs. For the casual dropin, a generic account with a row of icons pointing to hotmail, google etc. (precious seconds count when you're paying for access by the 1/4 hour). For regular customers, have a daily/weekly/monthly charge...

The dumb terminals is a good one, hadn't considered that to be honest. Thank you, it could help reduce costs.

Nick

angelofdeath

i think its a really good idea, as far as familliarity is concered for your average user performing simple tasks like browsing is virtually no different, and besides thats what 90% of the customers will use it for, also, as long as your the only one with root, the customers (or staff for that matter) cant fu*ck things up, gaming may be an issue but as was said before, there will be a linux port for d3 and besides most of the games that will be played work well with winex, theres a few suggestions there as well which would be good like, to stop people being put off, skin KDE with an xp theme, hell average joe wouldnt even know the difference then

nadir

funny that this topic should come up.
I helped out run a cyber cafe run on Debian machines in a squat in holland. It was non profit and there was no gaming. Machines were basically donated. It was excellent and worked out quite well, unfortuanately I only helped out there for a little while, cause the squat was running into difficulties. But it was a success in terms of the public had no problem using mozilla on debian. And of course the set up was totaly rock solid. So from that perspective it was definately a success, I have thought about trying to set up my own linux cafe myself, but dont have the capital, or business experience.
In terms of gaming on linux, basically winex does work with some tweaking, i use it all the time for DOD and counter-strike
. wine also has come on leaps and bounds and you can do all sorts of crazy stuff like this .
But i guess really gamers, want the most performance, and wine will never perform as well as a native windows install would. What I would do is a mix, id make a gaming section, with like a bunch of machines running xp or whatever, kit out specifically for gaming, and then run the "main" other section on linux, basic multi media - brousing sections, ought to save you ALOT of cash.
BTW, im unemployed, wanna gimme a job

theciscokid

theres a few in brazil that run totally on linux boxes

i'll see if i can get a link

Emboss

then run the "main" other section on linux, basic multi media - brousing sections, ought to save you ALOT of cash.

How?


(will it save money)

Typedef

Firewall/router -- Linux
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dhcp Server

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>client nodes
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Email/Webrowser boxes (the majority 10-15 boxes) Linux
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Gaming boxes Doze (4 boxes).
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Cute Russian chick to make the coffee (your mailorder wife).

That's how I'd run my Caf, if I was you.

Emboss

Originally posted by theciscokid
theres a few in brazil that run totally on linux boxes

i'll see if i can get a link

There is net cafe's all over the world that run 100% on linux

but not geared towards a gaming expirience

echomadman might be able to tell you how they were setup in thailiand i think it was mandrake for just mail/browsing

Emboss

Originally posted by Typedef
Firewall/router -- Linux
|
|
|
dhcp Server

---

>client nodes
|
|
|
Email/Webrowser boxes (the majority 10-15 boxes) Linux
|
|
Gaming boxes Doze (4 boxes).
|
|
Cute Russian chick to make the coffee (your mailorder wife).

That's how I'd run my Caf, if I was you.

I know linux advocates sometimes have their head stuck up the backside sometimes but

can people not read

At the core of the cafe will be gaming. Counter Strike, BattleField 1942 and the like

so having a sh*tload of linux boxes for browsing and FOUR windows machines isn't really helping him out.....

MeatProduct

Thanks very much for all those suggestions. I should have posted it before, sorry I didn't, I'm aiming towards 12 internet computers and 18 gaming computers. These numbers will probably increase but these are minimums so it's something to work with.

Counter Strike and Battle Field work reasonably well under WineX. They'll take a lot of tweaking but once the tweaking is done then that's the end of it.

Where abouts in the country are you Nadir?

Nick

Typedef

Yeah Emboss it's true and some of the self-righteous Windows lusers out there who have never even really used Linux, have big, all embracing opinions about it's 'place'.... and how the Linux guys are really just hippies and M$ really isn't that bad for the industry, delusional people, sort of like scientologists, but, they exist.

Anyway my point would that if you look around 9x% of the web cafs in town, the majority of punters are foreigners or people in transit, who can't afford a computer or internet connection, thus the whole Email/Web-browsing thing, is where the money is made.

Ergo the focus of a web caf should be internet services, since most gamers 'have' computers and most gamers 'have' internet access.

Case

Talk and Surf * around town, mostly forginers, doing email or the likes of boards.

Emboss

Originally posted by Typedef
Yeah Emboss it's true and some of the self-righteous Windows lusers out there who have never even really used Linux, have big, all embracing opinions about it's 'place'.... and how the Linux guys are really just hippies and M$ really isn't that bad for the industry, delusional people, sort of like scientologists, but, they exist.

Anyway my point would that if you look around 9x% of the web cafs in town, the majority of punters are foreigners or people in transit, who can't afford a computer or internet connection, thus the whole Email/Web-browsing thing, is where the money is made.

Ergo the focus of a web caf should be internet services, since most gamers 'have' computers and most gamers 'have' internet access.

Case

Talk and Surf * around town, mostly forginers, doing email or the likes of boards.

I'm not going to get into an OS war with you simply because every single post you make makes me want to chop both your hands off....

I'm not a windows fanatic.
I don't dislike Linux (much)
I do dislike arrogant elitist attitudes like your own that gives the Linux community a bad name. Especially Irish ones (I RULEZ I WUN LINUX)
Your ideals are not practical for his needs.
You annoy the f*ck out of me constantly.

And I don't have a link to FreeBSD in my signature to promote Bill Gates.

Cop on.

nadir

yea, not to mention the fact that the common punter is more likey to want to browse and email rather than go for a cs session. I reckon there is more moeny to be made from non gaming machine, although I could be totally wrong.

MeatProduct , im in galway.

EDIT : Damn I cant believe I took 5 minutes to write that

echomadman

where in the country are you setting this up?

"gamers" tend to be broke ass students, you're not going to make much money off em. unless theres a large community of them.
Gamers with money have their own boxes and aren't likely to be using cafe machines.
they are difficult customers, generally.

The bulk of my business comes from foreigners using their own obscure IM programs/webcams that kind of ****, are you going to be able to find *nix variants?

people typing up/updating CVs. as I said in the other thread, abiword/open office are ok but unfortunaly all HR depts are invariably running windows, send em a CV with the formatting screwed up and they bin it, your customer comes back whining that "they couldnt read the cv i typed up in here the other day, do ye not have Word?".

Its a nice idea, but if you want to offer any services beyond basic websurfing and email Linux will make it very hard for you.

Emboss

echo why don't you take your embracing opinions about it's 'place'.... and how the Linux guys are really just hippies and M$ really isn't that bad for the industry.

you self-righteous Windows luser.

skipn_easy

I would've thought gamers would be a nice reliable source of income for you. Granted a lot of gamers probably have nice kit at home but they also enjoy LANs which can be difficult to organise if they don't have cars, enough space, good coffee. An internet cafe which has a great gaming setup, comfortable environment and will allow gamers to play all night is very desirable. And when it turns into a regular thing (which it will if you're good to them) then I can only see it making you money. Put one member of staff on the night shift, and while the cafe wouldn't normally be open you'll be making money from all the gamers.
My all night gaming experiences at some internet cafes (which I won't name) haven't left me too impressed and it would be really great to see gamers catered for properly (even if it is in the south).

nadir

I know what you mean echo, i was thinking that office would be a problem alright, although you could install crossover. I guess you have a point, you could do it, but it would be alot of work. I guess what would be easier is if you just offered, a web - email, multimedia(video,audio) and priniting service. But not the service of actually editing ws documents. Basically if people have their cv on disk or online you could print it of a win machine. I know maybe its no acceptable, I dont know really how much people would want.

Gerry

Typedef, I don't see much point in running 2 OS's in the cafe, that looks like twice as much configuration, and twice as much support. Either go with one or the other. I think winex + the native ports that exist for linux could suffice for gaming, I'm not sure who has come up with proof that this wouldn't work. I do think the concerns about custom im programs are worth investigating though.

MeatProduct

There's much to be said for just having one OS, no dual boot. In my deliberations of the past week I am leaning more towards Linux at the moment. I have identified the major problems with Linux and I feel that, with the right staff, we can get over most of these problems.

Of course CV's and Word will be an issue but there will be one member of staff that will be walking around the cafe the whole time to offer assistance to anyone. Not a perfect solution but one that will address the issue.

It goes without saying that Windows is the easy option to set up but it does cost more in the long run with random reboots and viruses. Linux is much harder to set up but it offers more stability. As well as that I really think there are enough supported games for Linux to make it a viable gaming option. It's a start to getting more gaming support for Linux games. If the likes of Valve see that Linux gaming cafes are opening then they have more reason to consider doing Linux ports of games.

Many thanks to those that identified the problems that Linux would face. It's not an easy decision and I expect I'll wave betwwen Windows and Linux a few more times before I make a final decision.

Nick

Cake Fiend

/me beats Opera about in frustration

I had a pretty detailed post typed up. Then I switched focus to another window; when I returned to Opera, for reasons best known to the writers, it automatically refreshed the page. Bastards.

To summarize: As mentioned above, gamers will not be your main source of income. It's the emailers/browsers that will bring in the bulk of the cash. I suggest you worry about them before you worry about the gamers.

Bearing that in mind - some lusers will not even attempt to get their heads round an unfamiliar system in an already uncomfortable world. I have seen people close to tears when confronted with XP when used to 98. Some will go about their business completely oblivious to the details of the operating system they're using, as long as it has the basic stuff they need (browser, IM software, office software). You'll have to experiment.

If possible have a few machines running Windows, and a few running Linux and see how you get on. Otherwise, I'd have to recommend starting with Windows and seeing about phasing in Linux.

pickarooney

If you do that, maybe charge less for the linux machines (for a limited period only!) and see what influences people more - OS familiarity or budget.

MeatProduct

Points taken guys, thanks very much. I have done some research and it is the gamers that we will be aiming for to bring in the money. Of course I migt be proven completely wrong there but from a bit of market research it's the gamers that will be coming to this place. I don't think thell'll have much to complain about either:

Counter Strike
Battlefield 1942
Red Alert 2
Warcraft 3 + The Frozen Throne

Linux Native:
Quake 2
Quake 3
Unreal Tournament 2004 64bit
Doom 3
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Americas Army

I think if Valve port Halflife to Linux then for many gamers it will be an easy decision to switch to Linux. Which of course helps the Linux case for this internet cafe.

Nick

Emboss

Nick

I don't mean to be rude but you asked for advice...

echomadman runs an internet cafe...

Sico afaik is heavily involved in a large amount of them not sure if he's hardware or software probably both but runs a huge chain in Dublin.....

these two have given you solid advice and you have just chosen to completley ignore it.


why bother asking for advice in the first place?

when you're selling up if the lease is cheap i'll buy it off you.

sovtek

Meat,
I'm an admin at a large cafe in Dublin.
I've often considered moving to Linux as well.
We used to do webhosting and mail accounts so we have some Linux servers around.
The problem I see with it is mainly Word (and being unfamiliar with OpenOffice I'm not sure if you can edit a Word doc in OpenOffice or not) and gamers.
Unlike some have suggested their are plenty of gamers. While many Irish gamers might be getting their own computers and connections...there are many Romanians and Chinese who do use internet cafe's for gaming.
Unfortunetly the owners aren't bothered about gamers so i'd move in a second if the Word problem weren't a factor.

The_Conductor

You can edit ms word documents with open office.

Shane

sovtek

Originally posted by smccarrick
You can edit ms word documents with open office.

Shane

Didn't know you could.
I guess the real problem is then creating them.

echomadman

there are many Romanians and Chinese

I asked him where he was setting up, if its dublin then the population makes getting a gamer customer base easy, If its outside dublin it really is a different story.

Of course CV's and Word will be an issue but there will be one member of staff that will be walking around the cafe the whole time to offer assistance to anyone. Not a perfect solution but one that will address the issue.

Depending on your opening hours this could mean up to 3 additional staff members, thats a significant increase in wage costs per week. min wage is now 7 per hour, a premises to fit the amount of PCs you are talking about will not be cheap to rent. Its amazing how fast your running costs escalate
Not trying to discourage you but I've seen a lot of cafes go under in the last year. It sounds like you are inviting a lot of potential pitfalls very early on.
Good luck anyway whatever you decide to do.

echomadman

quote:

---

Originally posted by smccarrick
You can edit ms word documents with open office.

Shane

---

Didn't know you could.
I guess the real problem is then creating them.

you can do both, but its not an exact science, formatting *always* goes awry.

Abiword is a much better replacement for Word imo, but still not 100%

sovtek

Originally posted by echomadman
I asked him where he was setting up, if its dublin then the population makes getting a gamer customer base easy, If its outside dublin it really is a different story.

Ach! Very true...sorry I've only ever lived in Dublin and tend to forget the rest of the country.

Depending on your opening hours this could mean up to 3 additional staff members, thats a significant increase in wage costs per week. min wage is now 7 per hour, a premises to fit the amount of PCs you are talking about will not be cheap to rent. Its amazing how fast your running costs escalate
Not trying to discourage you but I've seen a lot of cafes go under in the last year. It sounds like you are inviting a lot of potential pitfalls very early on.
Good luck anyway whatever you decide to do.

So very true. We are running at a significant loss at the moment and have to make some serious changes.
Also if you want employees to go out of their way to help customers you are going to have to pay them more than minimum wage.

sovtek

Originally posted by echomadman
you can do both, but its not an exact science, formatting *always* goes awry.

Abiword is a much better replacement for Word imo, but still not 100%

Actually this got me curious and I'm testing it at the moment.
After formatting a floppy on a Fedora machine and copying a Word 2000 doc (from a Win98 machine) and Fedora won't read it. Despite formating using msdos file system.
The 98 machine can read the Fedora formatted disk though. Anyway off topic.

MeatProduct

Originally posted by Emboss
Nick

I don't mean to be rude but you asked for advice...

echomadman runs an internet cafe...

Sico afaik is heavily involved in a large amount of them not sure if he's hardware or software probably both but runs a huge chain in Dublin.....

these two have given you solid advice and you have just chosen to completley ignore it.


why bother asking for advice in the first place?

when you're selling up if the lease is cheap i'll buy it off you.

Apologies to Echomadman and Sico if it seemed like I was completely ignoring your advice. I'm not at all, I did actually say "points taken" and very much value your views. It was not my intention or desire to ignore your comments and I don't think that was communicated in my post above. However, Emboss seems to think that I am at fault so I am very sorry if I have offended anyone, it was honestly not my intent.
My point was that we will be aiming at gamers.

Nick