Was there a historical Jesus Christ

MeatProduct

The aim of this poll is to establish how people view the life of Jesus Christ, truth or myth?

MeatProduct

Where possible could people indicate their reasons for voting either way.

Many thanks,

Nick

Manach

Based solely on the thread header, a historical Jesus Christ, it has to be yes; given that he is mentioned in passing by the Roman/Jewish Historian Joesphus in his works, circa the Emperor Vespasian.

DaithiSurfer

Harry potter is mentioned in the works of JK rowlingus circa President Clintonis Bushes.

I know i'll probably go to hell for that one, but sure hay i hate harp music.

the_syco

Originally posted by MeatProduct
The aim of this poll is to establish how people view the life of Jesus Christ, truth or myth?

Yes. Although I loathe him and all, he did exist. According to the Roman's records, a Mary and Joseph were signed up in their records, and there's a high propability that Jesus was born. Google it, ye lazy fecker. **

The rest of the book(bible), tho, is pure fiction. It was also written by his best mates a couple of years after he died, and left out his teenage years :dunno:

**; This is based on what I saw on National Geographic Channel.

MeatProduct

Please read my other post which mentions the Josephus issue as well as other problems concerning a historical Jesus Christ. It can be accessed from here

atheist

Can't vote either way as believe he was a magic mushroom salesman (explaining miracles). Not unusual for radicals, then or now, to dabble.

MeatProduct

Originally posted by the_syco
Yes. Although I loathe him and all, he did exist. According to the Roman's records, a Mary and Joseph were signed up in their records, and there's a high propability that Jesus was born. Google it, ye lazy fecker. **

The rest of the book(bible), tho, is pure fiction. It was also written by his best mates a couple of years after he died, and left out his teenage years :dunno:

**; This is based on what I saw on National Geographic Channel.

And do you believe everything you see on TV? I don't deserve to be insulted like that, if I was lazy I would not have done the research that I did. You said yourself that there is doubt whether Jesus Christ was born ("high propability that Jesus was born"). That evidence is completely inconclusive.

I do appreciate that you made the effort though.

Nick

JustHalf

Watch yourself MeatProduct. You're being extremely confrontational. Any more outbursts like the last post and you're banned for a week.

the_syco, I'm guessing this guy doesn't have an Irish sense of humour. I'd appreciate if you could hold back on the joke insults; I don't think he realises it was a joke.

MeatProduct

Originally posted by JustHalf
Watch yourself MeatProduct. You're being extremely confrontational. Any more outbursts like the last post and you're banned for a week.

the_syco, I'm guessing this guy doesn't have an Irish sense of humour. I'd appreciate if you could hold back on the joke insults; I don't think he realises it was a joke.

JustHalf,

So noted but I feel you have handled this incorrectly.

Nick

Draupnir

Im gonna defend the chap for the second time, he shouldnt be banned for defending himself should he?I understand it was a joke for syco but hey, we shouldnt have to interpret comments before we defend ourselves from them.

If I call you a big ugly bag of ***** in jest will you understand, I doubt it, so I wont!

Im not gonna answer the poll cos I havent decided myself yet, Ill be around tomorrow to discuss it more MeatProduct, thanks for starting something in my mind

MeatProduct

Originally posted by Draupnir
Im gonna defend the chap for the second time, he shouldnt be banned for defending himself should he?I understand it was a joke for syco but hey, we shouldnt have to interpret comments before we defend ourselves from them.

If I call you a big ugly bag of ***** in jest will you understand, I doubt it, so I wont!

Im not gonna answer the poll cos I havent decided myself yet, Ill be around tomorrow to discuss it more MeatProduct, thanks for starting something in my mind

Many thanks indeed Draupnir. I look forward to reading your thoughts on this subject. It is an area that a great many more people should be thinking about.

Nick

Manach

DaithiSurfer – If you have trouble telling fact from fiction, nothing I say will change that. I can get away with that rather pompus comment because I am studying Classical Rome/Greece history.

MeatProduct – Your poll stated: “exist historically”. It did not mention anything about the believablity of acts attribituted to Jesus. My standard course texts of the period does not mention Joesphus been altered <your other thread> but I will be assigned a block latter this year on Ancient Judea, so I will be in a better position to judge then.

Wolfie

Originally posted by the_syco
Yes. Although I loathe him and all, he did exist. According to the Roman's records, a Mary and Joseph were signed up in their records, and there's a high propability that Jesus was born. Google it, ye lazy fecker. **

The rest of the book(bible), tho, is pure fiction. It was also written by his best mates a couple of years after he died, and left out his teenage years :dunno:

**; This is based on what I saw on National Geographic Channel.

Just curious as to why you loathe Jesus, and why you think that the rest of the Bible (I assume apart from the fact that there was a Jesus at that time) is fiction? Seems a rather broad assumption/assertion based on your emotional feelings towards Jesus?

neuro-praxis

As we have been learning recently, things are so because people say so.

If some guy says the bible is fiction, well then, it must be!

I am relieved, quite frankly, to have discovered this. It means I no longer have to make decisions or do research. But then, being a Christian, I never do either of those things anyway!

mr_angry

Sarcasmic.

Seaneh

I believe Jesus the historical figure existed because 2000 years worth of historical academics believed he existed, weather or not he was God is another question, but I do also believe that to be the case.

Karoma

Whatever happened with the ossuary ("John - Brother of Jesus") that they found a while back? Is there any objective or scientific results of examinations available? (I can only find (very) biased information about it using google)

Dubliner

The Greatest Lie Ever Told

All religion means Power.

The World's Greatest Lie Ever Told.

It cost millions of lives. Look at Ireland, North & South.

Look at the mid-east.


'' Religion is bad for your health''.

JustHalf

Originally posted by Dubliner
The Greatest Lie Ever Told

All religion means Power.

The World's Greatest Lie Ever Told.

It cost millions of lives. Look at Ireland, North & South.

Look at the mid-east.


'' Religion is bad for your health''.

Can you please assemble your statements coherently?

JippoKelly

Originally posted by Seaneh
I believe Jesus the historical figure existed because 2000 years worth of historical academics believed he existed, weather or not he was God is another question, but I do also believe that to be the case.

The vast majority of these historical academics would have come from Christian backgrounds though. So one could hold that they have a vested interest in saying he existed. And if you really want something to be true, it's not that hard to make it 'true' by taking facts out of context and selectively ignoring other contradictory evidence.

I'm not saying he did not exist, but just trying to show that a lot of people that try to prove his existence do not do it from an objective point of view. It's probably not even possible to be objective with regards such subjects as religion is so inbred on the Western psyche.

I personally believe Jesus existed, but probably as a head of a cultas opposed to Son of an omnipotent benevolent God. A figure similar to L Ron Hibbard these days. Maybe he was an early day David Blaine and that would explain the miracles.

neuro-praxis

The vast majority of these historical academics would have come from Christian backgrounds though. So one could hold that they have a vested interest in saying he existed.

You just made that up.

Rabies

Why is the poll closed ?

Was there a historical Jesus Christ

I think there probably was. Although I don't believe that he was the son of a god. He might have believed he was the son of a god and in his own mind and beliefs. Maybe taught he could change the world for the better. People followed him. Radical change or new teachings would have brought outcry 2000 years ago. It would have to be silenced, hence the crucifiction.
If the census from the time states that this person did exist then it is likey that he did. Although, the whole son of god part is a different story.

watty

The issue is not if Yeshua Ben Yosef lived or not. That is incontrovertable.

More evidence on that than existance of Julius Caeser!


The issues are:

:: Was he merely a Prophet (as some Jews, Moslems, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and Bahai claim?)

:: Was he deluded?

:: Was he later misrepresented?

:: Was he really human?

:: Was he divine, "The Son of God"?

:: Was he Human and God?

:: Was he the Messiah (Christ)?

:: If the Messiah, what sort of Messiah? In what way different do what people then expecting the Messiah to be.

:: Did he or his followers redifine what Messiah meant? Or was indeed the New Testament conception of the "Christ" always a matter of interpretation of the Tenach (Old Testament)?

Do you understand what kind of Messiah Judeans expected then and why what is recorded in the Gospels was a problem for many?

JustHalf

Originally posted by Rabies
Why is the poll closed ?

I have no idea. I didn't do it. MeatProduct may have, I don't know.

mr_angry

Its clear even from reading the Bible itself that the followers of Jesus often misinterpreted his message, or performed actions which he then disagreed with. Its obvious that the expectations of even his closest friends differed from the man himself. Since we don't have enough evidence to base our opinions on, we are all forced into making assumptions. That is faith, and that is all we can do.

However, I believe many teachings that the Church preaches today have been altered / embelleshed throughout the ages, particularly before the Reformation. We will never know the whole truth, and no thread on Boards can ever decide what really happened. We just have to make the best of what information we have, and that leaves us with a choice. Some choose to believe in Jesus, some don't, and we all have to respect that.

Yoda

I think it's clear that Jesus existed. In my own view, a number of the attributes of Jesus Christ are fictions added by others.

watty

Amazingly we would agree on that.

Given the normal gulf on "world view" between Yoda and myself (I'd defend to the death his right to have his views that oppose mine), sceptics regarding the actual historic existance of Jesus should take note.

I'm sure Yoda and I would disagree strongly on which currently promoted attributes of Jesus The Christ are fictional. We might agree on some though.

HacksawEddie

believe he lived, and he died, and that was that
good movie though

Dar

I believe he lived, and that people followed him as a 'messiah' in the Jewish sense - a leader that would bring them to freedom. He formented armed insurrection and was crucified by the Romans. That's it, no water into wine, no resurrection (unless the crucification was faked).

The rest was either invented over time by the followers, or incorporated from other religions in order to ensure the survival of the church.

HacksawEddie

its funny in a way, because nowadays if someone claimed to be a messiah etc they would laughed at , mainly because so many people actually think or claim they are a messiah.
maybe jesus christ was just another one of these people like who we have today, only people back then were nieve enough to follow him
(although having said that, ppl still follow cults today!)