The Mega **Management Company** thread

magpie

Had exactly the same problem with tenants leaving behind their sh1theap bangers when they moved out. Only solution is to break in to the car, push it outside, take off the number plates, f uck them into the river (not into the bin in your complex!). Within 1 day the car will be burned out, within 2 it'll be taken away.

I had to do this twice, only tricky bit is breaking the steering lock (especially on a Ford Escort for some reason...) for this you need two people pulling it clockwise as hard as possible. Kicking the hell out of it from the passenger seat (like in the movies) doesn't work.

Don't bother trying to go any official route as that way leads madness/frustration as we live in a country that makes African Dictatorships look like models of rational administration.

MorningStar

magpie wrote:

Don't bother trying to go any official route as that way leads madness/frustration as we live in a country that makes African Dictatorships look like models of rational administration.

That is an extremely stupid thing to say. I don't think Bertie boils people to death do you?

magpie

I don't think Bertie boils people to death do you?

No, but Robert Mugabe himself would blanche at the thought of moving the entire Civil Service down the country to be in Noel Dempsey's constituency just to line local farmers' pockets.

Anyway, I digress. Break into the cars, push them outside, lose the reg plates, job done.

lomb

magpie wrote:

Anyway, I digress. Break into the cars, push them outside, lose the reg plates, job done.

yeah the cops in clondalkin told my dad to do the same, as someone a past resident of his rental property left a car there. they said push it on the road and call the council, if theres no tax theres no problem with them taking it. can i ask what car and what year it is though? its not a good car is it?

gamer

there should be steel gates at the entrance which automatically close after tenants go in.if you are living in private apartments.thats what you pay service charges for,security and maintenance.

Victor

Not all development have gates or merit them at the start.

gamer

so you are paying ,900plus service charges per year..you have no automatic gate,no security,that sounds like a rip off..u have management company ,complain get em to install automatic self lock gates ,,,thats standard,,are you saying your living in dublin and you dont need merit..security.u put in code .gate locks itself after you go into door.does anyone bother parking cars there at all ,whats to stop em being robbed or broken into.

easy guv'nor

I'm considering an apt in city centre managed by KPM.

1 bed apt in large 10 year old development.
No parking space (maybe vendor is selling it separately)
no elevator
no gardens etc
automatic gate

€1450 per year

when I mentioned to the auctioneer that I thought this was expensive I was told that the common areas (ie the stairs it seems) are cleaned daily. Great.

The_Conductor

easy guv'nor wrote:

I'm considering an apt in city centre managed by KPM.

1 bed apt in large 10 year old development.
No parking space (maybe vendor is selling it separately)
no elevator
no gardens etc
automatic gate

€1450 per year

when I mentioned to the auctioneer that I thought this was expensive I was told that the common areas (ie the stairs it seems) are cleaned daily. Great.

Seems excessive.....
Try to get a breakdown of the expenditure and see if its justified.
As a common complex I think you will find that building insurance and refuse/cleaning do in fact eat up a large chunk of that though
Is the lack of parking space reflected in the price of the apartment?
Do you have a copy of the model lease for the complex- it may enlighten you.... (management company solicitor should be in a position to organise a copy for you).....

Victor

easy guv'nor wrote:

when I mentioned to the auctioneer that I thought this was expensive I was told that the common areas (ie the stairs it seems) are cleaned daily.

Why would it need to be cleaned daily - are the residents that messy / fussy?

The_Conductor

Me thinks thats auctioneer speak for "the handyman will clean up anything of danger he comes across"? We used have an onsite superintendent/handyman- and had similar claims made of our complex. The truth of the matter was if he caught you littering you were more likely to be reported to the Gardai than the litter picked up. There might have been an element of a powertrip going on there.... He retired his post though (he is still a resident). Then again, maybe the management company have tapped into cheap Eastern European labour? Wonder do they do call-outs?

Ardent

Ardent wrote:

The Malthouse
Marrowbone Lane, D8

Management company is RF Property Management

1072 euro p/a management fee, includes insurance
125 euro p/a car parking space maintenance fee

Brand new development, not all owners/tenants moved in yet. Development constructed by Danninger, for what it's worth.

One year on and the management fee has jumped from 1198 to 1630. They're actually looking for 1790 from me (bin charges are not included in the management fee).

Fairly f**king livid I am right now. Missed the residents meetings arranged earlier in the year regarding this increase, wish I hadn't now. In overthrowing mood.

Ole Rodrigo

including the new bin charges, i'm paying 1640 for an 800 sq ft 3 bed. Granby Hall in Parnell Square. Company is RF management , the development has 27 units.... It seems to be a common problem in developments where the majority of residents are renting. There is not the drive to take the companies on. KPM where involved up until a few years ago before they were sacked.

Ole Rodrigo

no elevators or gardens

The_Conductor

rocstar wrote:

the majority of residents are renting. There is not the drive to take the companies on.

Am I missing something?
Normally its the Landlords who pay the management charge, not the residents.
The Landlords can, of course, write off the management charge against tax due on their rental income. In our complex here the norm is that the Landlord then passes on a reduced charge (to take into account his/her tax rebate) to the resident (or in some cases its not mentioned at all, and is simply absorbed into monthly rents).

Sounds like your landlords are even more mercenary than most!

dublinguy2004

Apartments suck. It's all very fine blowing whistles on a message board, but 'maintainance charges' have been cleverly thought out by the legal elite so that there's nothing you can do except sell up and move out. You don't quite 'own' an apartment when you buy one and you're obliged to pay a kind of 'rent' to the management company which always goes up and never goes down. Plus the rent is deceptively low for the first few years after construction and then gradually it keeps going up and up.

Often those developers involved in the construction of such apartment complexes would keep maybe a penthouse or two plus a few smaller apartments for a nice tidy rental income. But really this gives them much more voting rights than your average 9-5er from the suburbs who has a €35,000 a year job, works in a bank and has just signed themselves onto a 40 year mortgage with their spouse and help from their parents. And besides, if push does come to shove it's not hard to get your way onto the managemnet committee by keeping your neighbours sweet.

I've heard so many horror stories about new apartments and wouldn't go near one with a barge pole.

And what's the story with buying apartments in the suburbs?? Surely they're designed for city living, but I've seen suckers queueing up to by crappily-made apartments outside Dublin in grid-lock Meath and Kildare!! Will people ever open their eyes and cop themselves on!!

Eamorr

homeOwner

dublinguy2004, i dont quite agree with you. Everyone who ownes an appartment in a complex has an equal say in how it is run, should they want to. Just because the builders own a few apartments doesnt give them any more rights than anyone else. With concensus at the AGM you can fire a management company and get another one. We still have the builders as silent members of the board of directors of our company but they dont participate in the AGM or meetings and have not contacted our management company since we were voted in. Once the last few snags in the complex have been fixed we are told they will be removed as directors.

I am on the board of my apartment complex and we keep a tight reign on Wyse who manage it for us. We have sorted out many problems we had the first year and Wyse have since gotten us much more competitive prices for cleaning, gardening and maintnance as a result of our complaints. It is up to the people who own apartments to keep a watchful eye on the management company and force them to earn their fees.

I agree, left to their own devices management companies could take advantage and expenses could get out of control. You need some people on the board who are ideally retired and are around the complex all day keeping an eye on things. I have no complaints with Wyse so far and the accounts are open for all of us to see and inspect, which we do. There is no question of them increasing our fees without discussion and without proper cause. We have managed to reduce our electricity and refuse collection bills over the past year and save some money in a sinking fund. I dont anticipate our fees going up next year.

Kingsize

"I have no complaints with Wyse so far "

your'e lucky then ive found them unhelpful & uninterested when i have called them about basic maintenance issues.
I wont elaborate any further but im surprised to hear someone say theyve no complaints - maybe your'e in a "flagship" apartment complex???

homeOwner

Maybe we are the exception. There are 6 of us on the board and we have meetings every 6-8 weeks. The person in Wyse who works for us is helpful, well at least she does what we ask. We are quite relentless in following up on what we ask her to do and we dont let her away with fobbing us off at meetings.

Before we formed the board it was very difficult to get wyse to do anything but once we started the meetings we got some results. I guess it depends on who wyse appoint to your complex. I also think it is down to the members too - you have to make the management company work for you or vote them out!

Caribs

I am living in a small private estate (with no gates) but we are having similar fun with our management agents & developers. Our insurance premium is for public and employer liability for the common areas as we all have our own private house insurance. From experience does anyone know why we need employers liability as we have no employees and any contractors coming onto our company's land should have their own insurance. If not we won't use them.

Second query, common areas dont appear to have been finished properly but there is no sign of the builder/developer being in any hurry to finish it which creates the vicious circle of perpetuating the problem of the development being handed over to the company. We have a provision for a sinking fund but if it hasn't been completed in the first place should we need one for now?

Victor

Caribs wrote:

From experience does anyone know why we need employers liability as we have no employees and any contractors coming onto our company's land should have their own insurance. If not we won't use them.

"Should" can be a terrible word. What if they say they do or misunderstand the question? Better to have it than not.

You could discuss this with an insurance broker. There is a very marginal risk that insurance company A will say "we are only paying half, make insurance company pay pay half also".

strewth

Would anyone on these boards be willing to go on camera to speak about the many problems so many people are having with their management companies? Fee hikes, poor service, no transparency etc.?

This is going to be a huge issue in the future and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

The interview would not be live so if you're not happy with what you say, we can do it again.

We need residents to speak out about this if something is to be done. This is our chance.

Post a response if you're interested....

Cheers!

dublinguy2004

Yo Strewth,

Check your private messages!

DG2004

Victor

strewth, I would like you to explain who you are.

strewth wrote:

Would anyone on these boards be willing to go on camera to speak about the many problems so many people are having with their management companies? Fee hikes, poor service, no transparency etc.?

resassoc

I am heavily involved in one Residents' Association (www.tramyard.com) and have found that the problem of apartments isn't as simple as it sounds. Basically it is a four fold problem.

Builders:
Builders want to sell properties and one of the ploys they use is setting the initial management fee low. This is attractive to purchasers but sets a complex on the road to hell as the fees won't be enough to cover expenses.

Property Management Agents:
Some property managers just dont care ... lets face it. They don't care if they don't collect management fees, don't care how they spend the money, don't care about planning for the future.

The management company:
ie the people who are the common area owners (often the builders but often not). They are directors but do not discharge their duties correctly.

The owners:
Its a really silly way to protest over work not getting done by not paying fees. This is like a drowning person protesting the fact that no one is helping them by crossing their arms ... they just drown quicker! Fees must be paid ... if you want to sell the property, no buyer will take it without having them paid. By paying and forming an active residents association you at least can take charge.

Solutions???
Take matters into your own hands and stand up and be counted. Get an effective residents association and get visible. I designed and run www.tramyard.com which has pulled all the residents together. I am in the process of setting up www.resassoc.com ... which is intended to be a Residents' Association Network so that we can speak with one voice and share information. Anyone interested? Need help putting a site together or want to share information? Drop me a line at resassoc@tramyard.com.

www.resassoc.com

centauri

magpie wrote:

The confusion arises when people talk about KPM, Irish Estates etc as Management Companies, they are in fact management agents who are employed by the management company of your development of which you are a shareholder. Therefore it's up to the shareholders to ensure that you receive proper service, that you get your AGM, that accounts are furnished etc and if they are not that you appoint a better management agent. The main problem you will encounter here is apathy. ...[etc.]....
The only solution is sell your apartment and buy a house, now matter how crappy. At least you won't have to deal with this ****e any more.

This is all good sense, although so is the reply that points out that house developments also often have management agents these days.
I've chaired the management committee of the complex where I live for 8 years and would not recommend owning a flat if you can avoid it, although I must confess that I can't really recommend a better investment either, other than a house without a management agency! The core problem seems to be that efficient property management is not profitable except in genteel suburban developments where nothing happens and there is little vandalism, wear and tear etc. Also, compared with flats I have seen on the continent, flat building in Ireland seems still to be in its infancy from a quality point of view and I would be very suspicious on this score. It is harder to survey a flat than a house before purchase.

If you are buying a flat, avoid developments with convenience shops and other popular commercial units, and locations near such units, if you can. If you can't, pick the flats which are furthest from the commercial units, e.g.those at the back. Shops are a source of noise (from clients and machines such as driers, and clashing trolleys and crates when deliveries are made), untidiness and litigation. Also be aware than in the city centre, drug addicts intruding to hang about and take drugs may be a problem. E.g, if your complex has street frontage they just kick in a door or trick their way in via the intercom and sit around smoking for a few hours, leaving a mess behind. I say nothing of other residents who create noise problems or who may be serious criminals -- we have just had an example of this -- such individuals may only affect their landlords and close neighbours.

Agents seem to take on more developments than they can handle efficiently for the price. There are a few like Wyse (in fact, Wyse is the only one I have heard of) who are reputed to give really good service, but they charge a great deal more than the rest and are selective about their customers.
I note a complaint about agents not facilitating the handover of the property -- in my experience this is the fault of the developers -- ours hung on to the common areas for reasons of their own and then dragged their heels for another few years through sheer inertia -- the agent can't do much to force them in such cases.
As for owners, a proportion of those in residence will take responsibility for running the place but in my experience many "absentees" only emerge from the woodwork when there is an increase in the fee or when their particular flat has a problem. Many people are investing to rent these days and expect the development to be a revenue machine. They also largely ignore the committee who work voluntarily to supervise the agents.

leonlafrite

From my experience, avoid KPM at ALL COST, you will never ever get anything from them...Smith Property management have done more for the developement in 3 months than KPM in 3 years...I would even go as far as avoid appartement block all together if you can, Ireland is not ready for this yet....no offence.

Dred0

Hi, I'm a journalist currently working on an article on management and service fees for a national property magazine. I've been reading through all your threads and would like to speak with anyone interested in getting their views on the subject into print.

I'm particulalrly keen to speak to those of you who have formed your own managment companies (e.g. Shane). But I would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion on the good, bad or indifferent qualities of management agents/companies and the services they do, or don't, provide.

Thanks


Jules

(e-mail address in profile)

Dred0

Well, the administrator seems to think I don't want my e-mail address accesible even though I've opted for it and for private messages.

If anyone wants to get in touch with me about the article they can e-mail me at:

jules_brown@eircom.net

Thanks,

Jules

lomb

we got a letter saying they wanted a substanial once off subscription for the apartmetn and a substanial rise in fees, due to the place needing restoration lol. its only 7 years old, the lifts have never worked, the place has a mice problem, the basement smells and the lobby and public areas are filty.

the place has had 4 different management companies and each time a new one takes charge they want a one off fee to cover something.

personally i would avoid apartments as investment vehicles unless u can get something that generates 5% and i dont think u will. they were good investments when they yielded 7000 punts and cost 110000, now when they yield 12000 and cost 300000+ the yield is crap, and the downside of a leasehold property means that i would steer well clear.