DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

kazoo106

Of course - But most in here think that the Internet is the future of everything - where will this leave the BAI or whatever they have morphed into?

Stations will just setup offshore and give them the two fingered salute

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010476#Comment_121010476

DTT is not a comparable situation to be fair.

first of all, operating a tv station is very expensive and resource intencive compared to radio, even if you are just repeating programming all the time or playing out programming from the big broadcasters.

just take virgin media or whatever the stations are called these days, 200 staff i believe just to manage playout for mostly ITV programming across 3 or 4 channels.

then you have large scale competition from terrestrial television beaming in from the UK, BBC, ITV, ETC.

but at least there would have been an ability for a private operator to operate a commercial television mux should they have wanted to and any potential operators were able to make the choice not to do so.

in the case of DAB, that ability is not there, you will not get a full time operating license and probably won't even get a trial one now.

ireland is not to small a market at all, rather it has very over inflated costs to operate a radio station and very high regulatory requirements.

if your claim was true, then dublin wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of stations it does, even if you excluded the nationals, with a population of what, 1, 2 million now?

realistically there is no evidence to back up the vast vast majority of your claims, due to the effective prohibition on the use of the technology, because the basis underpinning your claims can't be used in the same manner that it could be for other situations due to the prohibition.

bagonua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011413#Comment_121011413

The Atlantic 252 model.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121011224#Comment_121011224

The problem with radio is that there is always a sense of toxicity to it, often ist's also political, a bit of nepotism and that one combined with stubornness. In the sense of all what's going on in the UK or more or less of what is wrong in the UK with Brexit and the Tories, it's a surprise, that radio in the UK seems exempt from all that.

Big countries as well as small countries, countries with mountains and valleys, countries with a flat landscape, all have implemented DAB+. It takes a bit of an open mind, a bit of marketing and interest for new technology. And those who liked it and bought DAB+ radios, were neither dumb nor stupid or otherwise rediculed.

So, why can't the Irish? All because of a couple of ILRs, fears about changes in the market, changes which will happen anyway and people who dislike change?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013365#Comment_121013365

That really isn't it at all, I personally would have been quite enthusiastic about DAB a decade or so ago - but that ship sailed and now I can see no advantage to it at all. Things have moved on and it's now a clunky solution looking for a problem.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121013365#Comment_121013365

Big countries as well as small countries, countries with mountains and valleys, countries with a flat landscape, all have implemented DAB+.

That's a funny use of the word "all"

The vast majority of countries have not implemented DAB. This isn't a case of the backward Paddies being scared of the unknown. If DAB is so awesome, easy to roll out and delivers such amazing benefits, why is it being denied to so many people?

kazoo106

Fear my dear man ... fear

Only reason

Way back at the end of last year, I proposed 1 National MUX and a few regional MUX's as a possible way of rolling this out - there is extra capacity on each proposed regional MUX

The deluded will say that this is available on phones (yes it is) - but they just dont get it. Phones are subscription devices. Radio is Free.

Here is the post from last Christmas - I can see why the fear exists, but it is just unnecesary fear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058277298/fantasy-digital-2023/p1

Former Former Former

My fear is of wasting public money on something that is neither wanted nor needed.

If someone wants to set it up as a private enterprise, let them at it. Tumbleweeds on that front though. Why? Because there's no money to be made in it.

Edit: and before someone says "how can they when the regulator won't let them do it?", if there's one thing big corporations do well, it's lobbying governments to do what they want.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015047#Comment_121015047

ultimately that is the great question.

why did the BAI effectively bann the use of DAB in ireland rather then implement all of the required legal frameworks to allow it to happen, and if then after that there was no interest so be it?

well one answer we know is to protect the existing stations, but that plan doesn't look to be going hugely well with 2 very recent sales of quite big independant stations to a well known big operator, with probably more to come, with of course all of what that may bring eventually.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005353#Comment_121005353

Saorview is on UHF... and VHF is part of the DTT standard in Ireland, it's just not used.

FM easily sounds superior to DAB/DAB+ given a decent signal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010641#Comment_121010641

I've asked before and now I have to ask again. Where is the funding, whether licence fee or advertising, going to come from to sustain all of this extra 'choice'? There's only so many worthwhile services that a population of 5 million can sustain.

As other posters have pointed out, it's all but certain that any such 'choice' would end up with conglomerate-owned automated jukebox genre (70s 80s etc) stations, a Spotify playlist over the radio in effect. What's the point?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010641#Comment_121010641

Interesting that you mention Northern Ireland and DAB. Is there a greater choice? Yes there is if you include the national UK stations being broadcast there. But NI specific stations? DAB has not lead to extra local NI stations emerging in addition to existing FM output. Apart from Downtown Country thats DAB only, the only thing thats happened is that formerly regional FM stations like U105 and BBC Radio Foyle are now available throughout NI. Otherwise it's simulcasts of existing FM output such as BBC R Ulster, Downtown and Q Radio.

As to choices and habits being personal, yes I'd agree. A combination of FM and online listening is absolutely fine for me. Most of the stations (national, local, community etc) in the RoI have an online presence (website and/or an app).

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017037#Comment_121017037

your questions were already answered.

bagonua

I don't understand what the fuss is about. People with DAB radios can just drive to Newry where they can any day now listen to the Ulster Mux. It's going to be broadcasting top stations like Radio Lisburn and Non Stop 90s.

kazoo106

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015668#Comment_121015668

No one is suggesting public money here

The problem is that even the "private sector" can not get involved here as a carrier

bagonua

Why not write to your TD and ask them to raise this matter? Get expressions of interest from radio stations which would broadcast in Ireland if DAB was available. Ask for a response from BAI and Comreg. Work on a plan of action to bring DAB back as a commercial enterprise.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023954#Comment_121023954

The only way DAB will ever get off the ground here is if the government and RTE build a transmission network - with public money - and allow private operators to use it, as is the case with Saorview.

The private sector does not want to take the upfront risk and the upfront cost of something that will only ever generate modest returns, if even that.

We have two multinational media companies operating in the radio sector here, who are very well acquainted with DAB. There is quite literally nothing stopping them from asking the regulator to grant them a trial licence, nothing stopping them from putting political pressure on ministers to make it happen. Right now, if Bauer or Wireless said "RTE has a stranglehold on the media, we need DAB to shake it up", do you think anyone would object?

And still, tumbleweeds. Why? Because there is simply no money to be made in it. Quite the opposite, you'd be throwing money down a very large hole for a long time. They'd be happy to let the government fill the hole with money, and then join in when there is a chance of a profit.

Schorpio

We already had the bones of a transmission network, and RTE pulled the plug on cost-saving grounds. (I would love to see the figures - the cynic in me suspects it was a move which looks good in headlines, but the actual saving was tiny). The service also had very low take-up because it got precisely zero publicity. So, in terms of a network, we've gone backwards.

As I've said a few times, DAB should not be seen as an FM replacement. Most of the players currently broadcasting on FM are quite happy with the existing arrangement. Implementation of DAB could (and should) deliver more services, which would be more competition for the status quo. It's obvious why the two main players want to keep things the way they are.

Currently we have no DAB, and a strict licensing regime. You look across the water, and you have the likes of Absolute Radio, who are the masters at simulcasting a single DJ, and varying up the music (80s, 90s, 00s, etc.). If our radio market was more open, are you really telling me that the likes of Absolute Radio wouldn't be interested? Same DJ, same music, different ads. Small outlay, more revenue.

The TV market already does it - Channel 4, Dave, etc. all simulcast with Irish ads. And Challenge and Sky News both signed up for Saorview slots.

bagonua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025747#Comment_121025747

I would recommend that you write to Absolute Radio and ask them for an expression of interest. Then you could go to your TD and ask them to explore options to get the DAB network running again.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025747#Comment_121025747

We already had the bones of a transmission network

A transmission network built with public money though.

Yes, Absolute Radio (owned by the same guys who own Today FM, Newstalk, Spin, 98FM and RedFM, btw) would be interested - if someone else does the donkey work and takes the risks.

You've referred to Challenge and Sky News on Saorview - that's a public network, no upfront cost and they can drop off at any time so no risk, only upside. Which is exactly why we won't see DAB here.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025912#Comment_121025912

again it is the effective bann on the use of the technology that is why we won't see DAB here as it stands.

not lack of interest because that can't actually be gauged anyway as nobody can even use the technology.

even if the big players themselves weren't interested or would wait for donkey work to be done, that can't even be gauged or put to the test, so it is just speculation that can't be proved or to an extent disproven, but the ones making the claim have the greater expectation to prove it.

Schorpio

I don't disagree that a publicly-funded transmission network is required to get DAB off the ground. I also recognise that the possibility of this happening (again) is extremely unlikely.

Absolute are indeed owned by Bauer. I was only using them as an example, as they effectively already simulcast across a number of stations in the UK.

As for the Saorview point - I agree. No risk. However, many people said that adoption of new commercial services on Saorview was very unlikely, for similar reasons to DAB (already widely available elsewhere, streaming content etc.).

kazoo106

Why does it need public money to build this network? There is plenty of intrest and ready money in the private sector to do this - the only thing in the way is the regulator and their seemingly adverse reaction to the platform

The Status quo stations dont want it - the regulator won't introduce the framework because it will p*** off the hand that feeds them

That's the reality - we will probably never know

RTE probably dumped it because they were excluded from taking ad revenue on Pulse and Gold - stations I have not listened to since they went online only due to the poorer codec and samplerates used online.

The Saorview version is processed very differently and sounds very bland.

Gold sounded **** hot (audio wise) when it was on DAB.

bagonua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121026487#Comment_121026487

I'd recommend that you gather expressions of interest from the private sector and then write to the regulator for comment.

kazoo106

I know of at least FOUR stakeholders who have received the below copy/paste drivel;

The BAI is committed to exploring the potential for digital radio, including platforms. This will be accomplished by establishing a working group to review sustainability in the radio sector and commissioning an independent expert review of the potential for digital audio broadcasting.

The BAI will explore the opportunities for establishing digital audio broadcasting through consultation and working with the industry, and conducting an analysis of the Irish marketplace and international developments.

The BAI has not included this work in its 2021 work plan. This decision was based on a number of factors including: -

·                 The decision by RTÉ to cease DAB transmission.

·                 The current economic climate and its associated impact on the wider media sector.

·                 The view that 2021 was not the most opportune time for conducting economic and wider research, or for ensuring real and positive engagement by industry and wider stakeholders.

·                 The significant policy development work that would be required coupled with the financial and staff resources currently available to the BAI.

·                 The pending legislation establishing the Media Commission.

The BAI will have regard to the commitments set out in the Broadcasting Services Strategy and will consider the inclusion of these areas in future work planning. 

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037179#Comment_121037179

at least FOUR stakeholders 

Unless these stakeholders are large corporatations with tens of millions to invest in DAB infrastructure and publicity over a multi-year period, then it's irrelevant.

Wanting something is not the same as wanting to make it happen.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037688#Comment_121037688

it's not irrelevant as it's about removing the effective bann, which is what is really being asked for.

after that, if nobody is interested then it's a case of so be it, but specifically preventing the use of the technology to protect something that ultimately can't be, was never going to be tennable in the long run.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037179#Comment_121037179

they have 50 employees or something like that, what exactly do they all do?

the media commission intends to triple it's work force also apparently.

Gerry Wicklow

Ah the good ould "setting up a working group to decide if we need a commission to investigate hiring a consultant to decide if we need a committee to consider the factors involved in setting up a tribunal to determine .......... etc etc"

Jobs for the boys and all at the tax payers expense. 😜

bagonua

Are those FOUR stakeholders going to do anything about it?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038541#Comment_121038541

Isn't it the exact opposite though? That they're NOT spending taxpayers' money on any of this, because no one wants it.

So fair play to them.